Ok I have technically been in recovery since April, but I have been hesitant to move over here. So here is my story.

March 24th: I tell husband we need to talk. He had been distant and depressed for a while. I told him this first thing in the morning before work. That evening he came home to talk to me. He told me that he had been talking to OW about his depression and that they were good friends. Something did not sit well with me about this. I told him that I felt that they maybe to close and that it was super easy to fall into an EA (did not know he was in a PA already with OW.) After trying to talk for maybe an hour I had this intense feeling of needing to pack a bag for DS and I and leave. I tried to ignore that for over an hour and then I finally gave in. I went upstairs and packed a bag.

WH came upstairs and got really upset when he saw that bag. I told him I needed to get away from the situation for a couple of days, and he suggested that he leave instead. Gut told me not to let him, so we calmed down, talked and went to get dinner.

March 25th,

About 12pm WH calls me in tears asking me to set up an appt for him with our old MC. I told him ok and was able to make an appt for him at 3pm that day. Unbeknown to me, while I was making the appt, WH called OW and ended the A.

3:04pm OW FB status changes from in Relationship to Single

5pm I get home. Acting on gut instinct I hack WH's email and find conversations between him and OW confirming the A. I immediately call and confront WH about the A (did not know about MB, and was too angry to control urges at that point) Received the "I love you but am not in love with you" speech to which I tell him that he is full of S&#$ and not being honest. Meanwhile WH is texting OW that I know about the A. I remove and block OW from WH's FB account. I immediately print copies of conversations and then remove his computers from our house.

about 6pm WH comes home. WH's mom calls to discuss DS. I put her on speaker and in front of WH tell her that I just found out he had been having an A.

Call friend to take DS for a few hours. Go out with WH to discuss situation. Have his cell phone put under my name and texting disabled. Tell him that it is either me or her. He tells me he has already ended things with her, so I ask him to sign a contract that he will never have contact with her again. Begrudgingly he does so. He tells me that seeing the packed bag the night before hit him harder than he expected.

That evening, nightmares and hysterical bonding.WH confesses that he had intended to buy me a new wedding band for my b-day (1 week previous to D-Day)but did not know size.

March 26th: expose to several friends and family before going to work. WH comes by and takes me to lunch. Lunch ends up being a mall trip that included new wedding band and butterfly necklace.

March 27th: I wake up early and send email to OW from WH's email account entitled "Thinking of You". I tell her in detail about hysterical bond. And include photo of necklace right beside giant hickey. Tell her if she has contact with WH again I will take legal or other action against her (can sue AP in my state.)

Onwards: WH and I are working towards recovery. There has been no contact with OW since D-day, other than the NC letter that was sent in May.

WH has become very transparent and placed several extreme EP's in place to insure this does not happen again. Including exposing the A to his boss (she does not work with his) and changing his work number so she can not have contact. OW has now moved on to another victim, and I am monitoring that in case she does start looking WH's way again.

We are working on EN's and trying to reconnect. WH's seems to feel like he has reconnected with me. I on the other hand am still having some issues.

Wow sorry that was long. Anyway here is a sample of the issues I seem to be experiencing.

got an email from WS new friend. She seemed to misunderstand WS's request (he requested no information on OW) and seemed to be informing him that should she hear something for POSOW she would let him know what was up.

WS ended up replying to her email that he did not want to know anything about POSOW. That he had ended and affair with her in March and now wanted nothing to do with her. That he and I are trying to work to fix the problems in our marriage.

I think he is showing a lot of accountability by reacting like that.


Me on the other hand, I am still having days I just want to walk away. We tried to SF last night, but I kept seeing images of POSOW and WS in my mind. Every time we would get close to enjoying ourselves, I would have those images pop into my mind. After the third round I finally gave up and settled on snuggling with WS.


I explained that I was having unpleasant images (not what the images were of) and that it was interfering in the mood. I explained that I am having trouble right now, because even though I see that he is doing everything I have asked (and then some) to mae things better, I need to feel like the only woman in his heart. And at this point, I just don't feel that.

Is it that we don't have enough UA time? Is that why I am still having so much trouble? Lately when we do have some UA time, either I fall asleep and/or we end up watching TV. I understand that is not they way to make things better. What can we do to bond, that will not involve leaving the house (typically UA time is after DS is put in bed so leaving the house is not really an option atm.)


Any other suggestions? Please help.

Is there any way you can take a vacation? Can someone watch your son for you? Maybe a week long cruise can help? Just a massive UA session to kick off things.

BTW long posts dont bother me and I kinda dont like it when people complain. If they dont wanna read it dont read it. Lots of background is helpful IMO.

Next week will be easier since DS is staying with grandparents out of state during that week.

Hoping WH and I get to try out our new bikes then.

Getting frustrated!

Whenever I try to talk to WH about anything involving feelings, I tend to get 1-4 word answers. When we talk about anything else, loads of information.


I know WH is not comfortable discussing feelings, but I feel like I am pulling teeth to get any information. I am so frustrated that at times I feel like I want to throw in the towel.

I told him about how frustrated I am. I tried to explain it to him like this......


If I was to look at him and just say the word "grass" and leave the conversation. That word provides very little information, other than subject. There is no context in which to view the word. Whereas if I said "The grass is looking a little yellow today" there would be more information.



Please help! How do I get him to communicate without having to pull teeth? How can I get him more comfortable talking about this stuff?

Eluna, welcome to the recovery board

What are your H's EPs? Are they written? Can you copy them here?

The first one should be: #1 No female friends, period.

This is very alarming to me that he has a female friend, that they are discussing marital problems (the A) and that they email each other.

While I would normally agree with you on this, this particular friend will not be an issues since she would be more interested in me than in my H.

As far as EP's

No porn or strip clubs
Access to all email and phone
No computers without accountability software
Joint FB only, his account has been deleted (this is where the friend is being emailed from so I can see everything)
Lunch with me at least once per week
Google talking while we are at work
GPS tracking anytime he leaves work or when he runs any errands
He told his boss about the A
He had his phone # changed
OW's emails are forwarded directly into the trash should she email him (not happened, but still established, with a copy sent to my email so I would know)
SMS is blocked on his email
Texting is disabled
He does not talk to any female friend w/o me present (I was present each time he sent emails to his FB friend)
Phone and IPOD have parental blocks where I have control
Extra email addresses have been deleted as well
Anytime he leaves his desk he is suppose to let me know via G-talk
25 hours UA time each week
All person's I view as even a minor threat have been cut off as friends (Even had him send NC letters to 2 strippers he was friends with)


And has not been created yet, but has been verbally agreed to........

Post nupt: saying should he ever cheat again, I will automatically receive 70% of his annual salary, primary custody of our children, and any new woman would not be allowed to have contact with kids until they are married.

Thats a great post nup, is that actually legally binding? I wanted to have something like that but I was not sure a judge would agree to it if it ever had to be put to use.

That is why I need to go talk to a lawyer. If it is written right a post nup can be as binding as a pre-nup, however most times they are easy to get out of since they are not written correctly.

Will a judge let me do it? No idea, but that is what I am requesting. H has verbally agreed to those terms. Now I have to see what I can get in writing.

Eluna, not knowing you'd started this thread, I posted a reply to you yesterday on your other thread in SAA. Hope it's of some help to you.

Right,

I copied part of your post to WH. Specifically the part dealing with why he chose me over her..

He said to let you know you got a gold star and you are right, it was so simple he would never have been able to put it into words.


So the past few days WH and I have had alot of UA time since DS has been with the grandparents. I have discovered that when he and I actually sit down and talk (R talk mostly) that I end up feeling closer and more content.

I have this insane need to try to understand, and although I recognize that I will never understand the way I want to, it is helping me recognize some of the other problems that have been hiding.

I am still getting frustrated though. WH has always had a hard time talking about feelings, the conversations get very frustrating because I will make a comment and expect a response. My response will come 2-10 minutes later. It pisses me off waiting in silence for him to answer a question or respond to a comment. It feels like he is refining his answer to make it the way he thinks I want to hear. (hope that makes sense)

I want him to just blurt out what he is feeling or thinking. To me that is more honest than having to think it completely through before making a sound.

The other thing that is bothering me is that WH keeps blaming the A on his depression. I finally got fed up with that commentary this evening. I asked him how many times he has seen me get depressed over the years, and how many times that depression has lead me to cheat on him. I told him that he chose to cheat on me, that his depression was a symptom of his internal conflict because he knew what he was doing was wrong. I have not heard anything else about it, so waiting on that commentary too.

Ok time to get off the computer for a while.

I'm glad there was something useful for you, Eluna. And for your H too.

I think what you've got there is a good man who did something incredibly stupid (and selfish), but who very much regrets it and wants to make a better marriage with you.

But he will have a struggle learning to be more communicative, and more openly honest. He's afraid to say too much, because the next thing he says may be the thing that makes you throw in the towel.

Why do I say that? Because so much of what you said in your last post could have been written about my FWH, who is an introvert, one who processes things inside his head, and then (being conflict avoidant as well) MAYBE shares the conclusions he draws.

We are four years past D-Day, and we still struggle with that very issue. Makes me crazy (as an extrovert, NON-conflict-avoiding. I have learned, a bit, though, how to let go and not try to force responses/reactions from him. Get less dependent on what he does in that regard. Know that he is for real, and trying to develop that new skill.

Patience, Eluna. Patience and faith.

I am having another down day. I realized today that I have spent sooo much time over the past months fixating on the A that I have not grieved for the loss I have suffered.

I am so angry inside. How could anyone walk into someone else's marriage and try to destroy it. ESP when there is a young child involved.

On top of all this I have now opened the flood gates for all the negative emotions I had put on the back burner and not dealt with. Not been trying to intentionally avoid them, just easier to keep dealing with the constant NEW problems.

In MC yesterday I realized that I still blame myself for the trauma my DS went through at birth (he was in special care for 5 days due to low O2). I realized that I blame myself, because I made the decisions that may have lead to his issues. (his low O2 was from underdeveloped lungs and swallowing too much amniotic fluid during delivery)

So why do I blame myself for that? I made the decision to be induced at 41 weeks (had the option to wait a few more days) and I opted for narcotics instead of an eipdural up to 4 hours before he was born, then went ahead with the epi. I have felt guilt over this for almost 2 years.

Now I have to wonder if my avoidance of dealing with those feelings lead to my postpartum which eventually lead WH to think I did not want him and contributed to the decision to have an A?

At the same time I am dealing with this, I feel like I want to yell and scream at WH. I have only done that twice since I found out and both times involved alcohol which I am currently avoiding due to ADs.

I know the A happened due to his boundary issues, but how can any person that is a parent decide to try to break up someone else's family. How can a mother (even a crappy one) try to take a parent away from a child? Sometimes I don't know if I am more POed about the A or about the fact that POSOW's tried to destroy my family and by doing so would have scarred my child for the rest of his life...

I'm sorry you're having a bad day. They happen, and it doesn't mean you're doing anything "wrong." It's a rollercoaster, remember. It DOES slow down, in time, and the dips aren't as dizzying and they come less frequently. It's still so early for you. You're really doing well, but you can't see it yet. Time, Eluna.

I hope your son suffered no permanent damage. Please don't beat yourself up over your decisions. Remind yourself, over and over, that you made the best decisions you could with the information you had at the time. It's all anyone could do.


The answer to this question, "How can any person that is a parent decide to try to break up someone else's family?" is easy: SELFISHNESS.

Trying to understand how someone can be so cruel to a child as to take a parent from that child, I talked to WH about what I was feeling. I realized that for right now I am more upset about XOW trying to break up my family and take WH from my son.

I feel so helpless because I did not see it coming. I failed to protect my son from that scenario, and that is hurting me right now more than anything.

WH told me that I did not fail to protect DS, that it was his failure. That he failed to protect DS, me, and himself and that is why we are all suffering now.

Yes it was his failure to create true boundaries that lead here, but my failure was in not recognizing the danger before it was too late. I am not sure when I will be able to let that go. I feel so much guilt over what almost happened to my son. I can not even think about it without breaking out in tears.

So we changed subjects and started talking about one of the threads in SAA, and how I recognized emotional abuse in that situation. He asked me if this was because of how one of our ex-friends had treated me (I met WH through ex-friend whom I was dating at the time, after breaking up with ex-friend, I started seeing WH)

WH then proceeded to tell me how ex-friend treated me and other girls at the time, the comments he made about me, ect. WH said ex-friend got really POed at him because I ended up liking WH better as a friend. WH then continued to tell me why ex-friend was a jerk. After watching this for a little while I finally ask WH why he is acting like he is in competition with the ghost of a guy I dated over 12 years ago and have not seen or heard from in that time.

He tells me that he is not in competition, so I point out what lead me to believe he was acting like that. I showed him how his is trying to elevate himself in the situation and how he is trying to de-value ex-friend. I asked him why he was doing that. After 1/2 an hour of trying to keep WH focused on the question, I finally tell him that I have a suspicion why he is acting this way.

Ex-friend was the first "love of my life" and he was an A@@h@le! When WH and I first got together I regularly threw ex-friend into his face. However after one big fight, WH pointed out to me that I was doing this and asked me not to. Since then I have not. Even after D-day when I was so upset, I chose not to even mention ex-friend.

I told WH is seem like he feels the need to compete with ex-friend's ghost because he is still scared that I am going to run off with him. I pointed out that I have not had contact with this guy in over a decade and when I have searched for him on things like FB, it was to block him. That I married WH not ex-friend. That when ex-friend did propose I turned him down flat. I love my husband including his flaws, not ex-friend. That he has nothing to worry about where ex-friend is involved, he is an ex for a reason.

Maybe WH will start to trust that I am in love with him. That I am here with him. Maybe one day he will be able to talk to me. I was wrong to throw my ex in his face. I have grown up and moved past that behavior, I just hope he can.

I have been unable to fulfill WHs need for SF over the past week. At first I thought it was because I was exhausted from the depression, but yesterday I found out that I have a UTI. So now even though I am starting to feel better, I need to be even more cautious since the anti-biotics could interfere with my BC pills.

I so do not want to get pregnant right now!


On the other hand I am super worried that WH will resent me not being able to fulfill his needs. He says he understands because I am sick, but I am fearful anyway.

Am I the only one who worries when they can not fulfill SF needs? How do you deal with the fear that they may try to get that need taken care of somewhere else while you can not take care of it? We are not even 4 months past D-day. Should I worry at this point?

From what you've said so far, I don't think your H is foggy at all, or likely to turn on a dime back into an affair.

Sounds like you need a reminder that there are many avenues to sexual enjoyment that do not involve actual intercourse... I have to ask, though, might you not have thought to do those "other" things because you just don't feel like being sexual these days?

Think about this question, although it might be difficult to consider. Answer it honestly for yourself. No matter what you conclude, have the appropriate, open and honest discussion with your husband.

I agree that your H does not sound foggy and it does not seem likely he would return to the A.

Dr. Harley writes about the 4 intimate emotional needs - typically recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment for men and conversation and affection for women. Are you spending a minimum of 15 hours a week in meeting these needs? For us, it makes a huge difference to both of us. We start to feel bad if we don't get the hours together meeting these 4 needs. Dr. Harley also talks about the interaction of these needs. I'm paraphrasing and hope I get this right. I think the point is for most people that if a wife's need for affection or conversation is not met, she will not be keen on having sex.

And the other huge point is to NOT talk about the affair. Dr. Harley lists it as an enemy of good conversation to be reminded of past mistakes. It withdraws love units and generally makes both people feel bad. This has been SO hard for me to do. And it is very obvious when I slip that there is a negative impact on the relationship.

So bottom line from me is 1) spend time together meeting the 4 intimate emotional needs and 2) avoid talking about the A.

AM

Well since I have started feeling better, we have gone back to fulfilling ENs.
I am trying to avoid talking about the A, and instead trying to focus on the dynamic between us. We talked this weekend about his impression of when he first met me, the realities of when we first dated, basically trying to remember why we fell in love to start with.

Conversations are becoming easier. Someone posted on another thread about a tip they had read to just wait when talking with a guy. That if you push, then they will have no reason to talk. So to sit patiently until they answer the question.

I tried this, and it actually work. H got a little bothered by the silence, and told me that the look on my face made him uncomfortable. I explained that my facial look had to do with me fighting my urges to push him to talk, and that I was trying to patiently wait for him to answer the question. After that he stopped stalling and started talking.

I did have an AO over the weekend, but not about the A. I was washing dishes and H asked a question from the living room. I replied back, but apparently he had not heard me so he repeated the question.

My biggest pet peeve is having to constantly repeat myself, so I snapped at him. After I calmed down, I apologized. We sat down and discussed the circumstances that would lead to me snapping at him (apparently I have done this too much over the past years.)

For him growing up, someone snapping at you was a get the hello outta here because I am so furious with you. In my growing up, snapping was the only way my mother took five seconds to hear what I was saying. I explained that I felt the need to snap at someone when I got frustrated from feeling ignored. And in this circumstance I was frustrated previously because I felt like everyone was yelling for my attention: H, DS, and all 3 of our cats.

Sunday was better because we got a few hours to ourselves, so we went to the movies for a date.

Ok here is a question we have come up against.

H wants me to start back making jewelry. I was doing this previous to D-day, and this was my creative outlet. I had been becoming fairly successful at it, and enjoyed it alot.

But H claimed that the time I spent promoting my jewelry lead him to resent me and set up some of the justification for the A. I admit I was spending a lot of time in cyberspace promoting the business, but at the time I was also looking for shortcuts because I wanted to spend more time with H.

H said he did not realize everything it was taking for me to create and promote the business and although he still resents it to a point, he wants me to start back.

I have shut down my store, and have only picked up my tools to create 3 times since D-day. I told him that from what I read, it was not advisable for me to continue since the hobby was taking away from the M.

On the other hand, he sees it as something super important to who I am. So we are now at a crossroads. I agree with him that there is a part of me that does not want to give it up, I want him more involved.

I feel like I am stuck. I do resent giving up the hobby, but my M is much more important to me. He absolutely does not want me to stop. The jewelry making falls in "ME" time. It was always my quiet reflective time.

Vets, how do I handle this? What is the best idea of a solution here?