Yes, you must be talking about my WH. He did say those things now that I come to remember. He said them for the first 12 years of our M. He said there was not reason for him to be jelous and look over his shoulder all the time and said he would not have an A. He only had 2 that I know of...and when he did not have any he was accompanying his best friend to strip clubs because his wife was not giving him any. By the way this guy was a former porn movie producer. Nice friends my WH had! Another of his friends married a stripper!
blessing

I think its a little excessive to accuse the BH of having an A at this point. We all put our heads in the sand and allowed ourselves to be gas lighted. i KNEW in my HEART that my M was suffering but I chose to ignore it for a very long time. This BH is probably doing the same thing.

I just dont want to accuse her BH of doing the WORSE sin in a marriage from him ignoring a confession a couple of times. Most likely he doesnt know how close he is to the edge.

I appreciate all of your opinions. I came onto the "Surviving Affairs" forum because I expected to receive strong (even hostile, if necessary) opinions on the matter. This thing has been going on for far too long in my mind...and I DO need for it to end. I am a highly educated woman. I have (and require) plenty of stimulation in my career, in my personal life, and in my bedroom.

Atena, I have had one man my entire life. I didn't expect that I would marry my first boyfriend but that's how it turned out. As for my wayward thinking (meaning thinking that does not align with yours), we can call it "wayward" for the sake of MB. Where I come from, we call it "human" to be attracted to the opposite sex. I do not "easily" fall for other men. I may have mentioned before that I am usually quite adept a thwarting their advances. I am here because I had not been as successful in this instance.

This was H's friend so I did not have any "guard" up with him...I barely looked at him for a couple years. There came a time in my marriage when my H and I had been bickering over little things that coincided with a time when OM started seeking to talk to me more whenever he came to our home...and it just kinda *clicked*. I thought it would go away as easily as it appeared and it did not.

This *thing* is the only issue I have with myself. I am a pretty strong woman overall and these tenacious feelings shook me. I am a pretty smart woman and have the good sense to seek help where I can't do it alone. I'm here to beat this. And I will. I have already been talking about this with my family and friends (as I told you my sibling gave me advice not to speak to OM about this). I am already exposed to them...but they all think nothing of it and think it will just go away (like I was thinking). And I told them *brutal* details. So you recommended that I expose to H and I acted quickly.

I am not going to beat him over the head with it, tell him exactly what position I had hoped to get in under OM, tell him how the sun shines because he's alive, the comparisons between OM and himself. What I am going to do is fix it...starting with the NC. Thank you all for insisting on the exposure to H and the NC. I am committed to that.

ArmyMama, I will, also, share with him the 15 steps. He did not want to hear anymore at that time and I was not going to cram it down his throat.

I somewhat feel that many of you believe the "exposure" was a failure. I didn't break him down to his lowest depths of despair and he didn't explode in bitter anger. Maybe you need for him to explode because that's what "normal" people do...non-"wayward" people. I've known him over a decade and have never seen him cry one time. That's just who he is.

I am happy that I came here because you have been able to offer some constructive advice and criticism...but where and when it becomes personal attacks that serve no forward-purpose, I don't respect that.

As for predisposition, I'm "predisposed" to have my way, to win, and to survive...so sure I'm "predisposed" to what feels good to me. If I don't think it's for the best, I fight it. Not to beat a dead horse, but that's why I'm here.

fullmoon, we are all predisposed. As humans, we are all wired to have an affair given the "right" set of circumstances. That is what MB and Dr. Harley teach. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional.

I was delusional for a long time because I believed while I had it in me (I've been tempted but have never cheated), I believed my husband didn't have it in him.

Guess what? He cheated. With my own sister.

Some here said he must be extra (fill in the blank) to do such a thing. Steve Harley of MB tells me no, that while it's extra painful for me and my family, it's only evidence that my H has a pulse and is wired like the rest of us.

Through MB counseling I've learned that if each of us married people don't have a plan to avoid temptation, each of us is susceptible to failure.

You and your husband are not different. Not sure why anyone here would make you out to be different or unique.

I commend you for coming here for guidance and hope you'll stick around!

fullmoon, I do think that a VERY simple and non-intrusive way to explain the impact OM has had on you to your H is to print out that sheet and highlight which steps have already occurred.

You don't even need to speak to him.

Just hand it to him.

Something from my NOTABLE POSTS thread which helps define what constitutes an affair.

Take care.

I believe you DO want to set boundaries, and I applaud you for the work you've done so far. I'm not sure why your H reacted the way he did. I would suspect that he at least feels "aware" now.

In any event, you've learned that you have to police yourself. Good job.

ITA. Without knowing her H it is hard to say what he's thinking. I wonder if he needs more time to process this, and there is more to come?

You know what I did on D-Day, after DH confessed to me? I told him okay, we'll work this out. Then I got in the car and went to work! Of course, I didn't work a lick that day, but I look back on that and think WTF??? I know it's because I went into shock and was going through the motions. And the sh*tstorm blew in later that evening.

Maybe her H is doing something similar.

All good points. I still feel FM needs to help him get his head out of the sand if he won't do it himself.

DeltaDr, I like your idea of printing the list and highlighting the completed steps. I have printed it and I will give it to him to review.

Serenity, Perhaps the above step (recommended by DeltaDr) will give him a better understanding.

DeltaDr, I'm sorry about your sister. I can only imagine how difficult that must have been for you. I witnessed (the effects of) infidelity throughout my childhood. I hadn't even noticed the impact it had until I was a grown woman and dating BH. I never expected BH to be faithful at all. I was on a constant mission to "catch him". (He inadvertently fueled the fire by an incident that occured early on in the relationship... nonetheless...) But I never "caught him" at anything.

Suamico & Meggy, I gave up trying to play detective. I'm not even worried about what he is doing at this point; I'm too concerned about what I'm doing. I'm worried about the person I am or am becoming. BH was/is having lunch with a group of girls every day at his job. I don't believe in "being friends" with the opposite sex. (The only reason OM and I are "friends" is because he's BH's friend and he has been in my house so much.) "Co-workers" are a breeding ground for As; you spend so much time during the day with them. But BH is home every night (almost), the perfect father, he professes his love for me loudly and unabashedly wherever we go. If he can have As and hide it so perfectly and take care of me and my children so thoroughly...well, what I don't know can't hurt me. But if I find out, there's going to be hell to pay (of course).

Bliss, I did not tell BH any comments that OM is making. I don't know what OM is doing; I have no clue what his intent is. Maybe OM is doing "nothing" and I am reading things into it that aren't there. People who are infatuated have been known to do that. Perhaps he's an innocent bystander and I am about to ruin his friendship for no reason. I don't want to do that.

Or playing devil's advocate, perhaps he is *intentionally* involved in this with me. But I'm married; he's not. This is my responsibility...not his.

On a positive note, you guys have redirected my attention so much to my H (and his feelings) in the last couple of days, I had no time to think all those OM thoughts I would have otherwise been thinking. *whew* What a tough (yet freeing *lol*) couple of days this has been. Thank you MB friends! :-)

P.S. Vibrissa, Luckily, (Thank God!) I do not think of OM when I am *with* my husband S...or else I would have been sure that a D was over the horizon...desperate to run off with my soulmate.

Maybe you should read about Anne505's thread

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2340748#Post2340748

She thought the same thing, perfect husband, praised her, etc!

I'm glad you are going to print that sheet out and highlight it and give it to your H! If he still doesn't care, then it wont hurt just to "LOOK" what your H is doing, if there is nothing then your set

I believe there is no such thing as "snooping" in a marriage, because in every marriage there should be NO secrets! All you are doing is just checking his emails and phone, no biggy!

I think others are right that your husband has his head in the sand - and it looks like you're taking steps to get him to remove it (which is good).

Another possible tact - you've already exposed yourself (haha!) - and he has apparently said "i don't want to hear anymore about it" - so how about saying "I understand your position - so let's look at it a different way - I feel like our marriage is in a bit of a rut - and I want to work to get it back on track" - then ask if he'd be willing to read His Needs / Her Needs with you.

Difficult to say no after such a pitch (though I'm sure many do).

If he read hnhn - that might very well help him to get his head out - and see what is going on here (ie - that there is work to be done)

Did you tell your BH how the OM says things to you that are inapropriate? Or that these said by the OM are done with one goal to get into a girls pants?

Your H needs to know this. I'm beginning to see why he doesn't think this is a big deal. You need to tell him that you feel there was a two-way street.

H is not yet home; he called me after his game (he plays rec sports). I dared to broach the topic again in preparation to give him this list when he comes home. He reiterated some points (from yesterday) and made a couple new points:

- He does not think like the typical person. He keeps trying to tell me that.
- It means more to him that I have urges for someone but love him more-- so much that I won't act on those urges...than if I didn't have feelings for someone.
- I could be in *"emotional turmoil"* trying to stop myself from being with this man for all he cares; as long as I stop myself from "doing anything" (i.e. sex) then he doesn't care.
- He doesn't believe in emotional affairs so it doesn't matter to him.
- Telling him about my interest in his friend is what is creating the problem. Otherwise there is no problem.
- He says, "Your thoughts are your own...that's why other people can't hear what you're thinking. You don't tell me about this..."

I asked him how he can be sure I won't do anything. He says he doesn't think about it; he'll think about it after it's done.

I told him I'm not trying to upset him by bringing this up again, I explained that I was on this website posting with people and getting advice...and I just want to "make sure"... He doesn't think I should be listening to other people. I need to answer my own questions within my own self.

He told me not to worry about him being upset, he's worried about me. I'm always telling him about something I read in a book or on the internet...stuff that gets me all worked up...and he's trying to protect me from that. He's happy and we don't have any marital problems.

Well, it doesn't look like he's going to get the list, after all. I did the printing and highlighting exercise...and read the first paragraph of HNHN off the internet (about to go Barnes and Noble to see if it's there). But I have to say, I already feel 1000 times better. There is no secret, my H somehow managed to feel more secure in the fact that I am "denying" myself due to my love for him, and I haven't had OM-specific fantastical thoughts swirling in my head for the past couple days. I think I'll be able to beat this in short order...now that I finally exposed (to H).

I'm going to read the HNHN book just to have a few extra pointers. :-)

Road and Bliss, I did not tell BH anything about OM's behavior. I don't want to implicate OM if he felt his flirtations were harmless. I can only confess to what my feelings were.

Furthermore, I'm going to have to say it seems that H already *knew of* (or perceived) any attraction between us...but just believed/believes that I would not make it become physical (the only thing that matters to him). I guess he was correct. Instead of taking on the PA, I researched, bought books, talked to friends and family, posted my "secret" on the internet/decided to seek help.

I am just going to continue to read, stick around here for awhile, NC with OM, and fortify myself and my M from any potential future threats.

Thank you immensely for your prompt and firm responses and for pushing me into the action [exposure] (that I apparently could not force myself into).

Do you not understand that your feelings didn't exist in a vacuum? OM ENCOURAGED you. Your H needs to know this - it may help his understanding of what happened.

I just thought I might relate some of my story.

I was upfront about my EA (although of course I didn't call it that) from the beginning. I let my H know every time I was seeing OM. He had his head well and truly in the sand.

IN retrospect he says now that he saw it as a kind of get out for himself at times - he didn't have to meet all my needs, he could share that with someone else and then for some of the rest of the time I could see it was really eating him up but he just couldn't tell me to stop it. I wanted him to tell me to stop it and accept that it was an EA, I often discussed the subject of EAs with my H - neither of us had ever heard of them. I, like you became exceptionally horny at that time and went all out for sex with my H.

As I got deeper in I would lie by ommision about our meetings and then it started to become physical (no sex) at about 18months.

I confessed properly after 20 months and told my H I wanted to end it and found this site.

He wasn't interested in the methods for closing down the A, just wanted to chalk up to experience and put it to one side.

But when I started talking NC and exposure he wanted to join in (I knew I was vlunerable to a relapse).

I think it was his friends and their hatred for FOM that made him realise that my EA and feelings didn't start in a vacuum.

I notice on the managing memories thread that you say you are over OM already. It took me a full 6months of NC to be over OM - and now after 18months I sometimes get this feeling that I am not over the fantasy of the A.

Once I'd got through the first month or so of withdrawl and we went through hysterical bonding (which I think is due to this deep honesty and conversation that comes after the trauma of dday) I thought that I was over OM - but then there were several relapses in my head about how wonderful OM was and I really had to fight myself not to pull up his FB page.

Please go careful in these early months - do everything you can to avoid those triggers of OM. I'm concerned that you are defending OM. Of course he will deny intent. The friendship has already been sullied. He did that by flirting with his friend's wife.

I can't tell whether your H has is head in the sand or whether he just doesn't want to believe it and is minimising it (as my H did).

Yes, FM, we do not think alike and there is such a thing as a wayward mind, you get to see it pretty clearly after a while. Ask MelodyLane.
I am not trying to be difficult here, I am just stating my opinion.
You are making a very simple situation very difficult.
When you said it 'clicked" what you actually said was that you allowed yourself to indulge into thoughts of OM. OK, we are humans but we are in control of our actions and thoughts. You choose to indulge in those thought. This is how A start, by choice.
If your M only has some bickering and you fell for OM then when a true crises happens what will you do?
Every M has problems and some M have problems bigger than what you described as bickering.
You H does not want to hear about your falling for his friend so this leave the ball in your court. You have to find the strenght on you own to overcome this situation and postin here will help you and maybe even talking to the Harleys.
Even if your H might have something going on the side...which we can't be sure of, he is not to blame.
You have to find the strenght.
blessing

Atena, My H has said the *exact* same thing! ...that I am "making a very simple situation...difficult". So maybe you and I don't think alike but you and H do (in that regard).

The last few posters have focused on my unwillingness to say anything about OM's behavior. I hear you. How can I tell SoMessedUp not to feel sympathy for his OW and yet "defend"/"protect" OM? That would be hypocritical. Right? Right.

So...this is the third day I'm getting on this topic with H now. It's first thing in the morning and H has to wake up to this today. He says, "Those people won't be happy until you're getting divorced."

This morning I just opened up the website in plain view so he might be curious enough to ask me "What are you reading now?" or something. ...which he did...giving me the perfect opportunity to jump right in. We just talked about the EA topic (with him reiterating the same premise that EA does not matter)...but, at least, we got on the topic of OM.

He said OM name today (so we're definitely on the same page), he said he doesn't want to know about me fantasizing about sleeping with his friend, he doesn't understand how we could have an emotional/mental connection when we barely talk, OM and I don't talk about anything, I just like the way he looks, it's selfish of me to ruin his friendship with OM/my friendship with OM/and the trust that we have in our M over something that is not going to happen (PA)...now maybe he's not going to be able to invite OM over to the house because he'll be thinking "things".

Uh...okay, so I froze up a little but I just told him that OM and I talk about "things", he knows that I don't become attracted to men merely for looks and some things I thought about OM, in general. Okay, so that didn't exactly blame him for anything...but it's progress. Right?

Staytogether, Thank you for sharing your story. I know I am a bit anxious to move to the stage of "over it". I will try to tread lightly. Of course, I have been completely emersed in this website and I have neither seen nor communicated with OM, spent all my time trying to figure out H's feelings and not OM...maybe it is giving me a premature feeling of "victory". *lol* I'll be careful.