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IM, I hope you're hanging in there. You're in a tough spot but it seems like you're doing a lot of hard work to figure out how to move on in the best way for you.

I have a few comments, but will have more time later on maybe tomorrow am. For now:

Quote
...his reply was "I thought you'd change"
This seems to come up quite a bit. The concept of people marrying each other in hopes that their spouse will "change, settle down, adapt", or otherwise "become my dream husband/wife." I did it to some extent. My wife at the time probably did too. In retrospect, there was plenty of change going on. But since we weren't spending UA time together, it was all change in the wrong direction; KWIM? With the UA time, we might have actually changed to fit each other's profile of the perfect mate. Dr. Harley says this tends to happen, for instance, with SF and unmatched libido/sex drives - as long as there's O&H, etc.

AS for your tendency to talk on the phone regularly (quite a lot, in my estimation). That certainly paints a different picture for me. However, I'm not sure if that truly qualifies for UA time; just haven't read much about that. I suppose the IC is there. At any rate, I believe your H has now reached a new plateau (a much lower one), where all the talk-time is not going to be as effective in creating the intimacy that it once did. His thought processes are elsewhere, I suspect.

.....TBC....

opt


Me: 43 y.o. BFWH, D-day 11/11/09 (NC since 9/01)
Divorce from WW final 9/16/10.
Current Status: MB-based Marriage to Nature Girl 12/8/12 (first date on 12/11/10)
Mine: S(16), D(11)
NatureGirls: S(23), D(21)
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IM, I was *not* suggesting a needle-poke plan! HNHN for Parents has a great chapter on getting to POJA when one spouse wants a child, or another child, and the other doesn't. In a nutshell, I'd encourage you to be honest with him with your concerns, that continuing to work on your marriage with him comes with a risk that you may be permanently giving up your chance to have a healthy baby. So given that, you would like to come stay with him for a month this summer, birth-control-free, and give it a last good shot. Maybe he wouldn't agree to it, but at least you've given him the information he needs to make an informed decision. Have you read the When to Call It Quits newsletters and Why Women Leave Men articles? I don't know if this is even just a problem limited to women. It seems like either spouse can destroy a marriage by pretending they are capable of unconditional love, regardless of the very real consequences. Unconditional love destroys marriages, finding your life together has gotten more and more appalling, until you grow to hate it, and him by extension.

What I hope you find, IM, are solutions you are both thrilled with, so you can grow together. I know we're not to educate our spouses, but I think you could email him a link to this article, and let him decide whether to read it or not. From the March of Dimes, about the risks of pregnancy after 35, and how to reduce your risks of complications.

http://www.marchofdimes.com/professionals/14332_1155.asp


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
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The bottom line is your H must want the marriage to succeed as much as you do to make it work.

Don't get bogged down in minutia, a common problem here; people analyzing minor behaviors while ignoring the elephant in the room.

Ask yourself some questions. Does your H value the marriage as much as you do AND is he willing to put in all the necessary work to create a marriage you are both happy with?

Is the fact that you want a baby influencing your desire to stay with your H?

I married my husband, now ex, when he was 21 and I was 26. Way too young. He'd missed out on developing himself as a person before marrying me. At about year 19 of marriage he started talking about wanting to live several lives, one without kids, we have 3, one as a single person, one living in Alaska, etc...In other words he did not want to be tied down by marriage. Much like your H.

Mine did stay for a year to "see if things could work" but with one foot out the door and his head elsewhere, a year went by and he wanted out. Despite him saying he wanted the marriage to work, he was not willing to do what it would take to make that happen.

Is your H really willing despite what he might say? Look at his behavior don't just listen to his words.

As a teacher looking for work I would not give up a job in this economy. There may be some here who say if you really want your marriage to work that's what you need to do. There is so much more to consider and much of that is your H's behavior and his willing to work for the marriage. He could always quit his job to move where you are, has he made that offer?

OT, we lived in Madrid too. We were there about 10 years ago for a year and I loved it and it was a great experience for the kids. Where did you live? Did you go to Patones De Ariba, Monestario De Piedra? Toledo?





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I agree that you are overthinking this. It all boils down one key piece of information that you do not have. WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON WHEN YOU ARE NOT AROUND? You need to know for sure. Once you know one way or another, you can decide what you will do. There is no way for you to know what you will do if... I thought I KNEW what I would do if my ex were unfaithful. When faced with the facts, my response was completely unexpected. You are nagged by the "what ifs". You have to KNOW. Get your butt out there and we can help you from there. Book a room just in case it is bad. You need to know that you did everything possible. Trying to save your marriage and finding the truth is not failure. Refusing to try and burying your head in the sand IS failure IMO.


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I have been reading other threads, but had neglected to check my own! :o) Must stew a bit and I will follow up.


BW (me): 36
WH: 30
M: 07/14/03; together~9yrs
Plan B: 07/13/10; NC broken by me 07/25/10
D-Day: 08/07/10
08/11/10: Plan B/D--can't bring myself to file without having a panic attack.
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Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
IM, I was *not* suggesting a needle-poke plan! HNHN for Parents has a great chapter on getting to POJA when one spouse wants a child, or another child, and the other doesn't. In a nutshell, I'd encourage you to be honest with him with your concerns, that continuing to work on your marriage with him comes with a risk that you may be permanently giving up your chance to have a healthy baby. So given that, you would like to come stay with him for a month this summer, birth-control-free, and give it a last good shot. Maybe he wouldn't agree to it, but at least you've given him the information he needs to make an informed decision. Have you read the When to Call It Quits newsletters and Why Women Leave Men articles? I don't know if this is even just a problem limited to women. It seems like either spouse can destroy a marriage by pretending they are capable of unconditional love, regardless of the very real consequences. Unconditional love destroys marriages, finding your life together has gotten more and more appalling, until you grow to hate it, and him by extension.

:o), I understand. I wouldn't be able to do the needle-trick anyway. I don't think POJA will work. We discussed this when we married & agreed to wait until I was 32-33. When that time came, we had a pretty rough few wks discussing this and he flat out told me he was still not ready. Here I am at 37 in 3 months & still hearing the same thing. I have asked (a few years ago and also recently) when he thought he might be & he doesn't know; have also asked him if he WANTS children and he says, yes, just not now and he really doesn't know when he might be ready--maybe next year, maybe in 5 years, blah, blah, blah. One of my fears, and I told him this, is that he wouldn't be ready for SEVERAL more years and that by then it might be more difficult for me. His response is what if we have kids and then divorce and then his kid is out in the world without his father. [It's strange from a psych standpoint because he has no experience with that. His parents are still together after close to 40 years. My mom was a BS who's WH married the OW and left her in a foreign country (the US) with 2 small children to raise.] What if I later end up having probs & he decides, well, I want kids and my wife can't give them to me, so then he decides to leave? (I know this smacks of esteem issues on my part and clearly if he was the man I thought he was, this thought wouldn't even cross my mind, but I am just as insecure as the next person and I tend to look at all possibilities--as SS2 says, I do tend to overthink everything.) (and I know Opt will jump in and get my case for worrying about his actions because I can only control my own--point taken, even if it hard to not worry about such things :o)

But to your suggestions, I can't even get a straight answer from him about me going up there for the summer and frankly, time is a-running out. I report back to school 08/16 and I already have a week planned in Ohio to visit my friend (his BF's wife) end of July. She is an AF labor/delivery nurse at Wright-Pat AFB and even she has tried to talk to him about my "advancing" age. I don't think that he doesn't care about that, I just really think he doesn't get it & prefers to ignore it. I don't think I can email the link because at this point, I think we are still trying to figure out if we are even going to make a go of the marriage.

I am envious of my friend. She and her husband have been married almost 5 years and decided to try for a family now. I used to hope that once his friends started having kids, he wld be more to it since he will see his firends moving into that stage of life. I used to say I was married to Peter Pan and it seems it wasn't really a joke after all.

I have read both newsletters & re: the UL issue: he did in fact state to me that he was afraid if we stayed together that I would one day hate him and he wouldn't be able to take that. For him, settling down means getting old--he even said this once-and I really believe that for him that as long as his life is full and hectic with work and social outings and activities that he feels he is still young. He has pointedly told me several times that I cannot keep up with him. To which my response is, I shouldn't HAVE to! We should both find a pace that we can handle and be happy with. So the idea that I might stay with him because of the vows and the UL might end up to me hating him one day--you are right to point this out.


BW (me): 36
WH: 30
M: 07/14/03; together~9yrs
Plan B: 07/13/10; NC broken by me 07/25/10
D-Day: 08/07/10
08/11/10: Plan B/D--can't bring myself to file without having a panic attack.
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Another intersting note, his comment about me "keeping up with him". He has NEVER said this to me until this year. I find it intriguing because he told me that his mom told him over the Xmas holidays that she worried about our age difference and that I wouldn't be able to keep up.

That's another whole can of worms. His parents are not supportive of the marriage at all. We will have been together 9 years in November and despite my having visited his home country 4 times, I have never once met his parents. They were very unhappy that he married a foreign woman and resent that he lives away from them, presumably because of me.

I just have to wonder how much verbal magic mom is working on him when he is home for visits or talking to him on the phone.

Last edited by InvincibleMe; 07/11/10 04:54 AM.

BW (me): 36
WH: 30
M: 07/14/03; together~9yrs
Plan B: 07/13/10; NC broken by me 07/25/10
D-Day: 08/07/10
08/11/10: Plan B/D--can't bring myself to file without having a panic attack.
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Originally Posted by nams
The bottom line is your H must want the marriage to succeed as much as you do to make it work. I agree, this is the bottom line and one I have stated to him point blank on several occasions. His response is either I don't know, I'm confused, or just complete silence-which I guess I could take as a response. His concern is that I will change for a while, then revert back. Notice, too, how it is *I* who must change because he doesn't seem to think he is doing anything wrong. I want to throw something at him every time he says that.

Don't get bogged down in minutia, a common problem here; people analyzing minor behaviors while ignoring the elephant in the room.

Ask yourself some questions. Does your H value the marriage as much as you do AND is he willing to put in all the necessary work to create a marriage you are both happy with? I think he THINKS he does, but no, he doesn't show it. He IS going to IC, which I suggested, to try to clarify his thoughts, but he back out on going to a marriage retreat and he has been non-committal about MC. Frankly, if he cont'd the IC, I would rather he found someone else because this guy seems to think we should just split up and be done with it. I have not met him, so I am only going by what H tells me which is very brief. He would say this entire post in 10 words and be done with it. I don't think an IC is going to magically fix our probs, but I had hoped at least he would point out how some of H's behaviors are NOT conducive to a healthy marriage and will in fact kill it quicker than my lack of ample RC will. So I guess really the answer is no, he does not value our marriage.

Is the fact that you want a baby influencing your desire to stay with your H? Yes and no. I think he is my last real chance to have a baby that I might actually know who the father is (Donor would be the other route). OTH, I have been on the ride so long with him abt a kid that I was almost resigned to being married and not having children. Honestly if it was choice between him and no kids, or no him and no kids, I would take him any day. He is my husband and while we had some issues, when all was accounted, I could honestly say that I was happy. My clock is already well on its way, KWIM? And frankly, I am really not wanting to be going on 60 when my kid finishes HS which is already where I am headed. I might have hated myself later on in life for that decision, but it was a decision I had made so I would have to learn to live with it. He commented to me on the phone a couple of months ago when we were talking about kids that he considered donating to me. My jaw dropped and I was silent for a full 12 seconds. I didn't even know how to respond to that and I said as much. He brushed off his statement and said, yeah, it was just a random thought that popped in his head.

I married my husband, now ex, when he was 21 and I was 26. Way too young. He'd missed out on developing himself as a person before marrying me. At about year 19 of marriage he started talking about wanting to live several lives, one without kids, we have 3, one as a single person, one living in Alaska, etc...In other words he did not want to be tied down by marriage. Much like your H.

Mine did stay for a year to "see if things could work" but with one foot out the door and his head elsewhere, a year went by and he wanted out. Despite him saying he wanted the marriage to work, he was not willing to do what it would take to make that happen. H's youth when we married (23) likely does play a role. (I should have expected this. I was 20, and XH was 21 when we married. We made it 5 years before we split (he had to find himself--his words). We married a earlier than we intended, but that's a whole other story I won't bore you guys with.

Is your H really willing despite what he might say? Look at his behavior don't just listen to his words. This is where my conundrum truly lies. His words seem to say no, yet he still wants to be in contact. He is in Europe right now for 12 days. He has called twice, emailed once, and he told me he would also call tomorrow bfr he flies back to Dallas on Monday. I have broached the idea of us really separating and cutting contact, and much like when I mentioned divorce, he fumbles on this, gets emotional (we have BOTH cried about this whole thing), and says we shouldn't rush into anything. My take? He really wants to be free & he also wants me to fulfill any ENs he has. Clearly a cake-eater.

As a teacher looking for work I would not give up a job in this economy. There may be some here who say if you really want your marriage to work that's what you need to do. There is so much more to consider and much of that is your H's behavior and his willing to work for the marriage. He could always quit his job to move where you are, has he made that offer? Nope, and I don't think he would. This would be ideal since he could find a job much easier than me since he is an engineer. At this point, he has a lease until May '11 and I am really not game to either of us putting our credit rating at risk. My lease is up end of Aug and I have not yet been asked to sign a renewal. But I concur on your point abt my job. I would not quit unless I 100% believed that he was in this with me. FS is a HUGE need of mine. I need to know that I can pay my bills. I may be naive on some things, but I am a die-hard realist on others. Money is what pays the bills and I have worked all my life to have excellent credit to screw it up. I have given up a lot for him and done a lot for him. More than I have alluded to in this thread, so I am pretty firm in some respects. I will gladly work to make improvements in order to have a happy, successful marriage, but I am not giving up anything else (read here: financial integrity & security). Yes, if I moved up there and things did not work out, I could live with my mom. She would welcome me with open arms and be glad to have me, but really at my age I feel it should be ME starting to shoulder some of HER burdens rather than her having to shoulder mine, KWIM?

OT, we lived in Madrid too. We were there about 10 years ago for a year and I loved it and it was a great experience for the kids. Where did you live? Did you go to Patones De Ariba, Monestario De Piedra? Toledo? Madrid is a wonderful city and I really enjoyed the travels we were able to have. It's a bit more expensive now--1/2 his check went to rent and we lived in a shoebox. We did not go to the 1st 2, but we did go to Toledo, Avila, Sevilla, down south to Marbella, tons of places really. I have fond memories of Spain--especially the chocolate con churros! I know that if I had been able to find a better job, or even had more stable hours, I would have been so much happier (FS girl here, remember? I was always worried abt money. H says I freak out abt $ too much, & I told him he doesn't freak out enough)

Last edited by InvincibleMe; 07/11/10 06:01 AM. Reason: think I caught all the typos this time

BW (me): 36
WH: 30
M: 07/14/03; together~9yrs
Plan B: 07/13/10; NC broken by me 07/25/10
D-Day: 08/07/10
08/11/10: Plan B/D--can't bring myself to file without having a panic attack.
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I will respond to SS2's post tomorrow (or later today!). I have thought abt this a lot and need some guidance.


BW (me): 36
WH: 30
M: 07/14/03; together~9yrs
Plan B: 07/13/10; NC broken by me 07/25/10
D-Day: 08/07/10
08/11/10: Plan B/D--can't bring myself to file without having a panic attack.
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Don't get bogged down in minutia, a common problem here; people analyzing minor behaviors while ignoring the elephant in the room.
worth repeating by Nams.

Quote
WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON WHEN YOU ARE NOT AROUND?
worth repeating by SS


Quote
He IS going to IC, which I suggested, to try to clarify his thoughts, but he back out on going to a marriage retreat and he has been non-committal about MC.
IC means nothing. He might as well be at the bar for another hour. IMO most of these boneheads do nothing but get paid to make people feel good about making bad choices.
MC also means nothing if it's not with the Harleys- there is TOO much risk that you will be getting involved with someone who will destroy your marriage.

You mentioned above something about D-day. There is no way to prepare for it. However, most of us were utterly unprepared and found this site after D-day. You do have the advantage of reading some threads about A's and gaining some understanding of what they are about (read: the Anatomy of an Afffair - how they start. I believe there's an article and a thread). When you decide to surprise your H, let us help you prepare. We'll be able to just about write the script.

IM, I think you have both been more committed to your jobs/careers than you have been to your marriage. Here at MB we tend to share a certain definition of marriage. That's probably what makes sites like this work. Trust me, before I found MB, my marriage was by NO MEANS a MB M. But once I found out there are basic principles that can help lead to a happy relationship for both partners, if both partners want to commit to it, I knew I would rather have that. Even at the risk of losing what I had because what I had was not working and it wasn't right: I can't figure out how to do a marriage on my own - I needed a guide, and trying to figure it out was leading to all sorts of pain for me, my W at the time, and my kids.

opt


Me: 43 y.o. BFWH, D-day 11/11/09 (NC since 9/01)
Divorce from WW final 9/16/10.
Current Status: MB-based Marriage to Nature Girl 12/8/12 (first date on 12/11/10)
Mine: S(16), D(11)
NatureGirls: S(23), D(21)
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Why are you two not going to visit the friend in Ohio together?

You have a short window over the summer when you are available to spend a lot of time with him. If I were you, I would consider canceling the trip in lieu of working on the marriage.

If you are going to do a plan A, you will need to devote the next month to this completely.

Do not get bogged down in the idea that he is more social and therefore needs to go out to bars. There are plenty of other ways for him to get his social and recreational needs met, first and foremost with you.

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IM

I'm wondering why it has to be an all or nothing scenario? My impression is that you're off for the summer. If that's the case, why can't you go stay with him for a few weeks? That way you still have your job AND you get the dual opportunity of finding out what's going on with him in Dallas and spending time with him to see if your marriage has a chance.

Just a thought
tamak

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If you are going to do a plan A, you will need to devote the next month to this completely.
Nomader is quite right on this. At least a month. And please do your reading on Plan A/Plan B. Plan A is usually (85% of the time) a set-up for a good Plan B. Don't think like a lot of us non-confrontational/conflict avoider BH's and figure your Plan A alone will enamor your spouse back into the M; usually doesn't work that way.

~optimism



Me: 43 y.o. BFWH, D-day 11/11/09 (NC since 9/01)
Divorce from WW final 9/16/10.
Current Status: MB-based Marriage to Nature Girl 12/8/12 (first date on 12/11/10)
Mine: S(16), D(11)
NatureGirls: S(23), D(21)
Another EA Story
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Originally Posted by optimism
IM, I think you have both been more committed to your jobs/careers than you have been to your marriage.
opt

I disagree--quite adamantly, in fact. For one, both of us were late-starters. He finished college in 07, me in 03. In the past 7 yrs, I have literally worked as a teacher only 4 yrs, he is on his 3rd as an engr, so neither of us has had a a real career yet. I know how he is as an employee (we worked together when we met) & going based off of what he says now, he does enough to do a good job, but he will never be employee of the month. I am not trying to insult him, this is a statement of fact. He is not the type AT ALL who lives to work. Work is what he does to LIVE, KWIM? He has so much more joie de vivre than I--maybe because he grew up in Europe where vacation time is ample and family/friend interaction was seen as a requirement whereas here in the US it is practically a national trait to work until you drop. I don't think it is bad for either of us to want to do our job well, but we both know where to draw the line.

Second, I gave up my job once to move TO him and was more than willing to do it again in June if not for all of this happening. I want to save the marriage, but I am also very aware of my own circumstances should that not happen. Likely this is also due to personal background growing up with a single mom. Maybe people here will bash that, but so be it. That is the way I feel. There was a time when I wld have whole-heartedly placed myself in his care, but I have lost confidence in him. UL wld require me to just drop everything & move up there, so I am trying to show some UL for myself for a change & do what will be best for me shld the other shoe drop.

As for A/B, god, I have no clue which I am doing. Looking back, I think I have been doing a sort of hybrid thing from afar--we still talk frequently and I try VERY hard to not do any LBs. Please no one comment on not being able to do Plan A from separate cities--I know this. Again, I am simply trying to do the best with the circumstances. At the same time, I am trying to work on myself more and learn to just be me again, not me and my husband, KWIM? He calls me 90% of the time because at this point I just feel like I am in his way, so I don't initate calls as much (Iknow, I know, I SHOULD be in his way, I SHOULD be reminding him constantly that he has a wife here waiting). Like Opt said, I am also like many spouses. I wouldn't necessarily say non-confrontational, I will do it if needed, but I have a huge tolerance level for BS (insert profanity here), so I just tend to say my piece, and then try to be the sweet Plan A wife for the most part now.


BW (me): 36
WH: 30
M: 07/14/03; together~9yrs
Plan B: 07/13/10; NC broken by me 07/25/10
D-Day: 08/07/10
08/11/10: Plan B/D--can't bring myself to file without having a panic attack.
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Originally Posted by Nomader
Why are you two not going to visit the friend in Ohio together? Because at this point we are at some weird "sorta separated" thing. Not only that, since he went to Europe for a wedding, he doesn't have any vacation days left. I wld have liked it, but I mentioned in an early post that both she and her H think we shld just split. Don't get me wrong, they wld love for us to work things, but she feels that my H has left me dangling too long, will never grow up/settle down, and her H (my H's BF) adores me and says that my H is like a bird who wants to spread his wings. Interestingly, he also told me that if he never knew my H before me and he then got to know him, he would have told me NOT to marry him. My H has become very selfish in that last few years. There's looking out for wanting to do things your way & then there is selfish and he passed that line a while back. So much so that I don't even think he recognizes it anymore.

You have a short window over the summer when you are available to spend a lot of time with him. If I were you, I would consider canceling the trip in lieu of working on the marriage. Something I will keep in mind. Frankly, I was really looking forward to just getting away for a few days. I told my friend that I wanted to discuss this issue, but I did not want to beat it to death. I just want some me time where I am not constantly depressed/stressed about this. I am sure many of you can u/s that feeling.

If you are going to do a plan A, you will need to devote the next month to this completely. I u/s. Once I figure out which way is up, I will do that.

Do not get bogged down in the idea that he is more social and therefore needs to go out to bars. There are plenty of other ways for him to get his social and recreational needs met, first and foremost with you. I agree with this & even told him that. He seems to think that pubs are a NEED--yes, he even said that--"I need to be able to go out sometimes and not just once a month. I can't live like that." --that's abt as verbatim as I can remember. I think it's total crap.


BW (me): 36
WH: 30
M: 07/14/03; together~9yrs
Plan B: 07/13/10; NC broken by me 07/25/10
D-Day: 08/07/10
08/11/10: Plan B/D--can't bring myself to file without having a panic attack.
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Originally Posted by tamak
IM

I'm wondering why it has to be an all or nothing scenario? My impression is that you're off for the summer. If that's the case, why can't you go stay with him for a few weeks? That way you still have your job AND you get the dual opportunity of finding out what's going on with him in Dallas and spending time with him to see if your marriage has a chance.

Just a thought
tamak

It's not an all or nothing, but it has to be SOMETHING. If he said, "IM, I know we are having problems, but I want more than anything to try to get thru them and work things out". OK, I am packing up my crap lickety-split and renting a UHaul. I get no committed response--not even a committed "I just don't want to be married anymore". I did tell him that I thought we shld try spending some time together to reconnect. I get that being apart has left us hanging by a tattered thread. He didn't say no, but he wasn't jumping up and down excited. I am hoping to get up there for at least SOME bit of time.


BW (me): 36
WH: 30
M: 07/14/03; together~9yrs
Plan B: 07/13/10; NC broken by me 07/25/10
D-Day: 08/07/10
08/11/10: Plan B/D--can't bring myself to file without having a panic attack.
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Still need to discuss my stakeout--man, these posts are exhausting! :o) I write WAY too much, so that's my fault.

Originally Posted by stillstanding2
It all boils down one key piece of information that you do not have. WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON WHEN YOU ARE NOT AROUND? You need to know for sure. Once you know one way or another, you can decide what you will do. You have to KNOW. Get your butt out there and we can help you from there. Book a room just in case it is bad.

Good advice on the room. This will be a long post because I am typing what I have been thinking.

So he flies back to DFW tomorrow. At 1st I thought why not go to airport--see who it is that picks him up. Usually his coworker/drink buddy-who-lives-in-the-same-complex plays chauffeur and my H does the same for him. Then I nixed that. Not good cuz what if that guy DOES pick him up--it is a Monday, so not the prime night for him to be out bar-hopping, and I will have driven up there for nothing only to have to come home, then drive back up there again this weekend. So this weekend is the target date for spying--Friday specifically. Should I also plan to do this Saturday? (self: hmm....might need to book a room for 2 nights...)

This is where I need all of your expertise. Like many spouses, there are some difficulties when snooping when I am with him. Cell phone is paid for by the co. & text msgs are blocked (apparently the co. did not get a plan that incl it & everyone was texting like crazy). H has never been big on texting, but I did check what was there when it was on, u/s-ing that he cld always delete them, too. Since it is co. phone, don't have access to statements. I don't have access to his email, & he is not into social net. sites, but I did check the files in the computer, pulled out his MC from the camera. Only did a cursory check thru his closet, need to do a better job on that later. He has almost no furniture cuz I was supposed to be moving there with everything. Has a mattress on the floor, a TV, finally bought a sofa right before he left for Europe, no dresser, nightstand, nothing else. If he is hiding something, it is likely in the closet.

So I am trying to map this out in my head. Sometimes when he goes out he drives & takes a cab home. Sometimes he rides w/his coworker/neighbor/friend. Sometimes he does drive. His debit card has been my one source of tracking him on the weekends. Do I try to check the bank online and scope out where he is and watch from afar (self: look into binoculars) if possible or wait until he gets home? This is a quandry. Might need to try to do both if I can and hope he doesn't still have cash left over from his trip or I can't track him.

OK, next issue. If for some reason he IS using cash and I have to give up & stake out the apt, this has its own hurdles. Gonna try to explain the layout, so play mental architect for a sec. He lives in a low-rise bldg, w/a parking garage. Each floor can be entered thru that garage level. Need a passkey to enter the garage & to enter door fr garage that leads to hallway for each level. I can wait & enter when someone drives into the garage & try to enter interior if needed when someone enters, I know. Or I can simply park on the incline & watch him as he drives in to see if he is with anyone. If he is, freak out from there...

What if he takes a cab home? I won't see him because he will not enter thru the garage, but thru the front lobby (again, passkey needed), so in this case, I need to be watching from outside. Problem is that the location of garage entrance & lobby are on opposite sides, so can't watch both. If he rides with his friend/neighbor, that guy lives one floor up, so it will also make it difficult to watch both levels. HS (insert expletive), this is gonna be a booger to do.

Can't try to get into his level & camp out & wait because once you enter the interior, it is like a hotel--hallways and front doors, I wld be mega-exposed, not to mention highly suspicious to a resident wondering why this crazy woman has been walking around the halls for 2 hours.

And after all this, what do I do if no one is with him, or he has just been hanging out at bar laughing and talking with his coworkers?

aarrghhh!!! I so need help....and a beer...and maybe a cigarette...or maybe a padded room...

Last edited by InvincibleMe; 07/12/10 12:30 AM. Reason: i think i got the typos

BW (me): 36
WH: 30
M: 07/14/03; together~9yrs
Plan B: 07/13/10; NC broken by me 07/25/10
D-Day: 08/07/10
08/11/10: Plan B/D--can't bring myself to file without having a panic attack.
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aarrghhh!!! I so need help....and a beer...and maybe a cigarette...or maybe a padded room...

okay, slow down, kid. He's battened down like a secret agent. You'll need a private investigator if you're going to get info on the sly. And probably an expensive one given all the security that's in place.

What I meant about recon is simply showing up unannounced. You'll know everything by his reaction. "Hi honey, I decided to surprise you for the weekend!! (And I brought that French Maid outfit you like so much...)." Now, if he hems and haws, and "I need to go in in front of you," or "this isn't a good time right now" or "you weren't going to go to the bar with me, were you?" All that kind of thing, then you'll know something's up. The details aren't that important. Bring a voice recorder so you can analyze what he says after without all the adrenaline.

Heck, you might get everything you need from the security guard at his building "what are YOU doing here, Mrs. IM?"

OR...........he might welcome you with open arms, be excited through the roof, parade you around at his hang-outs, take you to dinner, etc, etc.


What is UL? Unconditional Love? You know the Harley's don't advocate unconditional love, right? I'll share quotes from Steve Harley himself on the subject if you'd like.

~optimism

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Opt:
No security guard at the apt. LOL, I'd really be in a pickle then--or maybe not cuz I might just be able to bribe that guy for info instead.

Yes, UL is Uncond love. Not trying to say that I am supposed to give him UL, but rather that I am trying to look out for myself a little more now and that IF I was giving him UL I would have dropped everything/not confronted on other issues we have had.


BW (me): 36
WH: 30
M: 07/14/03; together~9yrs
Plan B: 07/13/10; NC broken by me 07/25/10
D-Day: 08/07/10
08/11/10: Plan B/D--can't bring myself to file without having a panic attack.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 224
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IM, you deserve to take care of yourself but as previously stated, if you are going to do Plan A, you need to do it fully for a month. This means not spending time out of state with a friend. IMHO, you should save the trip for the beginning of Plan B.

You want your husband to choose your marriage over other social time, and you should take the lead by doing the same. Your window of opportunity for plan A is short if you are going to start teaching in the fall, if would be good to do it the very best that you can right now.

Last edited by Nomader; 07/12/10 11:21 AM.
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