Rosy- There is not really a lovebank balance for my sibling. There is nothing that could be done that could reduce my love there, I have said it is unconditional and I truly believe that. I helped raise my sibling from birth so we have a special connection, which also gave me a better understanding of raising kids than just the kid knowledge I have gained through teaching. Have I experienced parenting 100%, no. But it is the challenge I am looking forward to more than anything else in my life. A lot of people don't really look forward to that challenge, it just happens to them or they think it will just be fun to have a baby. I know it will be a challenge, a great one, a responsibilty that I will shoulder.

On another note, I am very glad I do not have to go through the physical aspects of pregnancy.

Vib- that was a nice story. When I read it though, I had a hard time with both parents being away from the newborn like that. I could not imagine doing that, but that is just me.

And now our day has taken a turn for the worse and she is frustrated, upset, overwhelmed, and I am the one available to take it out on.

Great day, just perfect!!!

Vib- that was a nice story. When I read it though, I had a hard time with both parents being away from the newborn like that. I could not imagine doing that, but that is just me.


This is what true love between a husband and wife is all about. If you can't see it or feel it you are missing out on something truly wonderful. When I was pregnant, and if there would have been any question about saving my life or the baby's life, my husband would have chosen me. I get the feeling you would chose the baby. This is what I meant that you have no idea what true love is, the love between a husband and wife. I would give my life for my husband and I know he would give his life for me.

This is what leads me to believe that all you married your wife for was to give you the children you want. That makes her nothing but a baby factory, just like some women regard their husbands as sperm donors. How very sad. I feel sorry for your wife. Some day if she realizes it - and she will if you put the kids first and her last - she will have such resentment towards you that there won't be much of a marriage left.

You can blast me all you want now, I don't care. I spoke my mind and that's all I'm going to say. I'm done with this thread.

Not only does she have the baby-making job, but she can't even stay home to raise them because he wants her to have a FT income, too.

You're a TAKER, Tom.

So you have the guts to blast me, but are not willing to stick around for my side. Really, come on.
I do not see my wife as a baby factory (I have the desire to take a jab at a certain religion, but will refrain). That is by no means the only reason I married her. Yes I wanted kids and I believe the best way to have kids is through marriage with both the mom and dad raising them.

As for the comment about whose life to save during pregnancy, that is not an easy decision to make and it is sad when people have to. It really is hard to say. But I believe that when the baby is born, most people would not choose a spouse over the baby, the baby has nobody to protect them. I would think that most parents would give their life to let a baby live. I think the same situation coudl apply if it were during birth.
Again, that is a hard topic and one I would wish on nobody.

It would be nice if one parent or even both could stay home to raise the children, but alas children and adults cost money, so money has to be made to support them. I still stand by the idea that that does not make me a bad guy.

When I quit working to stay home with the kids, me and my H made the same amount of money. We took a 50% cut in income to have a parent home. HE has since stepped way the heck up, and now makes triple what he did then. That doesn't make him a bad guy either, eh?

He went for being an AWESOME guy instead of settling for 'not being a bad guy'. You should try it sometime, Tom. Raise that bar.

Maybe it would help if you had a wife who wasn't willing to settle, either? You said ya'll had a bad evening...what was that about?

Tom - to avoid thread/jacking another thread I'll post to you here.


I know another couple. They're in school, the husband has two jobs and they have three kids. The wife stays home and homeschools the kids. It can be done. They live simply but happily.

What if your wife's major EN is Family Commitment. What if to her that looks like staying home with the kids. Your view that Financial Support trumps all is fallacious. Yes, you need money to live, but you'd be surprised how little you can live on and still be happy. You hide behind the idea that you MUST have money to live to support the idea that YOUR EN is more important than all the rest. It isn't, it's just more important to you.

Through honesty and respectful persuasion and negotiation you could find other alternatives. Just because you can't think of them now doesn't mean they don't exist. Two people working on a project are more than capable of solving the situation.

As far as the comments on the other thread, I was the one that compared your relationship with you wife to that of a person with the beloved pet. And I stand by that comparison. You may think it's rude, I think it's rude that that is the way you treat your wife.

However, since you find the comparison so distasteful, I'll say that you treat your wife much like I treat my infant daughter.

I decide what she should eat, every day. I've decided that I don't want her eating sweets (but it's good for her!!!! It's unhealthy that a child 7 months old eat sugar, or honey, or peanut butter!!! Surely you all can agree with me on that!!!!) If I want a bit of lollypop, I hide it from her so her inquisitive nature doesn't cause her to reach out for the lollipop and eat something bad for her.

I drive however I darn please while she is in the car. She's safe, she's in her carseat. I know I'm a good driver, I know I'm safe. I have never in my life caused an accident, so I can trust my driving. Plus she's in her carseat and can't see what I'm doing (hey an idea! what if you put your wife in a carseat Tom! that way she can't see your reckless - to her- driving!)

When DD gets older we're probably gonna get her a car. We're going to make her get a job to pay for the insurance and gas. We'll make a decision on the type of life style we want and put her to work to fulfill it. That's just the way it's gonna be. Girl's gonna get a job at 16 b/c we're the parents and we say so. (Plus it's the right thing to do, don't you see, she wants this lifestyle she'll have to contribute, her wishes be damned).

Sure, I'm nice and loving to my daughter. I hold her when she's fussy even though I'd love to go soak in a hot bath. I get up and change her diaper in the middle of the night when I'd rather be sleeping. I take care of her when she's sick because I love her and care for her well being.

How is this any different than you treat your wife?

Sure you may love and care for her. But you don't treat her as your equal. Her thoughts, and opinions only matter when they don't conflict or burden yours. You'll 'sacrifice' for her b/c you're such a nice guy - plus as a bonus it gives you some points on your scorecard so you can hold over her head how great a guy you are and manipulate and browbeat her into giving you what YOU want.

The entire dynamic you have with your wife is demeaning, disrespectful, condescending and selfish. You have sown the seeds of the destruction of your marriage and you refuse to even see it. Sure she may love you now, but you are doing very little to ensure that that love is sustained over the long haul.

You married her for completely selfish reasons, so you don't have to live alone, so you can have a better life by putting someone else to work to support your lifestyle... everything for you.

I'm finally around my Love Buster books so some thoughts on Disrespectful Judgments, which motivate ALL your offensive behaviors to your wife:


Fast Food: You say you are motivated by your Giver wanting your wife to be healthy, in actuality your Taker want's a skinnier, healthier spouse and your Taker doesn't want to deal with your wife's negative emotions on the subject.

Finances: You say you are motivated by your Giver - you want to provide your family with a certain lifestyle because to you that means progress and success. Really it's that your Taker wants this car, and this house, and these kids and you can't do it on your own so you've decided you want your wife to help you get it.

Driving: You are motivated by your Giver to state you are a safe driver and wouldn't hurt your wife. Your Taker doesn't give a rip. Your Taker wants to drive your way: the FUN way. Your wife just needs to shut up about it because YOU know you're safe. Her feelings and emotions don't really matter, because YOU know better. Her perception of reality is just WRONG.

Questionnaire on Disrespectful Jugements:


I don't think you're a bad guy Tom - I just think you're misguided and maybe a little bit selfish.

You could change, though. You could build habits and thoughts that would strengthen your marriage instead of undermine it. You could truly care for your wife instead of disrespect her. At least you're here NOW! not a few years down the line when the bad habits and behaviors you've established have ruined your marriage and hurt your children.

Two tools for you: Respectful Persuasion and Successful Negotiation. You interested in them?

Do you know how single income families do it? They plan, plan, plan, plan and plan.

Did I say, Plan?

It is possible. We worked hard to make it happen. We also knew we wanted a spouse that believed in the SAHP lifestyle.

Every single decision we made prior to engagement, actually, was made so that we could live the SAHP lifestyle when our children came.

Mind you, though, we don't have any debt other than a mortgage. We can't afford the SAHP lifestyle and have debt. Most people would not want to live how we live. I've never owned a new car. We don't have a gaming system. We have one tv, one dvd player, etc. My kids are 95% outfitted in garage sale clothing for the first 5 years of their lives. We save about 25% of our income every year-not because we can, but because we must. With the exception of our house, if we don't have the cash, we don't buy it. We do have some "luxuries" in that we take vacations every year and we pay for private school. We'll also be able to retire at 55. (Well, I'll be able to retire at 55.)

Being a man who is supportive of the SAHP lifestyle is a great thing. And yes, money DOES need to be made. But that's only half the equation. One must be sensible with how the money is spent. You could gross a million a year, and if you spend that money in a way that doesn't align with the priorities you and your wife have decided upon, you are actually worse off than my family, sitting in one of the lowest tax brackets..

There was some frustration that was being aired from my wife. When something small became the last straw she took it out on me. Thankfully she later apologized and we talked about it. So we were able to get past that without much damage.

Since there have now been two recent posts in regards to one person working and the family "making it work" I feel I should respond to that issue.
Yes I said it would be nice, afterwards I actually thought about it. If I did make enough money to support the both of us (I currently do not regardless of how much we cut back on extras because of basic bills and debt), I would want my wife to work. Even if I changed jobs and made a significant amount more, I think I would want my wife working as well. She has said herself that she doesn't want to only be a stay at home mom, that she wants to have something else she is accomplishing. She is extremely talented and needs to use those talents. As ideal as it sounds to have one parent staying home to parent the children, I don't think I would actually be comfortable with it.

Sidenote, I am proud of you that you are able to plan well enough and enjoy life the way you do on less money and still saving and all that. It must also be nice to be without a significant amount of debt, I am looking forward to that day.

Well, you are setting yourself up for more 2x4s for your "doesn't want to ONLY be a stay at home mom" comment.

So, if you won the lotto would you still want your wife to work?

I hope to love my future spouse so much, that if I had a job that I loved and it afforded us a reasonably comfortable life and he didn't want to work and instead wanted to manage the household (making my life loads easier and more enjoyable), I would be happy to agree to it.

Of course, if I didn't love my spouse all that much and had more of a renter's mentality, I would want him to contribute equally. I would keep separate bank accounts and he could only buy things he could afford after he paid half of the bills, regardless of how much I had in the bank.

Oh but what if the tables were turned and your wife got a job she loves and could afford a comfortable lifestyle for you both on her own and you hated your job and were burned out and depressed because of it. Plus, you loved raising children and managing the household ... of course you would keep your job anyway because that is what renter's do. And when your truck died, she wouldn't help you buy a new one, because you aren't contributing enough ...

Again someone decides to pull out the extreme conditions example. This time it has to do with winning the Lottery.

Honestly, I think for both of us, not working at all would be boring at this point in our lives. I also do feel regardless of what we are making that we should both be working to contribute financially so that the burden is not put solely on one person.

Also, I never mentioned anything about seperate bank accounts.

Vib- Much to respond to from your last post, I will address some of it.

1. Selfishness. The truth of the matter is that we are all somewhat selfish in nature. We all have reasons that we do things that will some how benefit us. On occasion we will do things for other people will absolutely no expectations in return, but that is not everyday all of the time acts.
Yes I married her for completely selfish reasons, of course I did. Everybody chooses to marry for different reasons. Is there one "right" reason to get married? Not that I know of.
You mentioned the idea that it was all for me and how I didn't want to live alone. You are right, I have never lived alone and have no desire to ever do so.

On your 6 questions you posted- 1. You were right on that. 2. She is more prone to the lecture on me than the other way around. 3. I feel my opinions are superior to most everyones usually, not always, but usually. 4. I believe she actually interupts me more often. 5. I'll agree pretty close on that one. 6. We both do on occasion yes

My point with the lotto question is that a renter's mentality expects the other spouse to work because the renter is doing so - they focus on whether it is "fair" or 50/50 rather than whether it works for the relationship.

A discussion about work and finances should be focused on the end results first (e.g., happy marriage, how much is needed to pay bills) before you discuss the means to get there.

If both you and your wife want her to work and earn the same wage as you, there is nothing to discuss. But, if she would like to stay at home with children or work part-time or find a job that earns her less but that she enjoys more, you two need to have a discussion about it.

Because, as many posters have suggested, there are many potential means to achieving the end results and you and your wife could negotiate a solution that makes you both happy, as long as you are open to it.

All the more reason to use the tools here to ensure that this need does not go unfulfilled for you.

Nomad- We have discussed the job aspect to some point. Its not that she doesnt want to work or doesnt want to have a job that makes as much. It is simply that right now in this economy and everything, it is hard to find a job that she will like that makes the amount she was making before. I understand that, and she has made some effort, but its just very hard to wait and be patient about it.
But the fact is that she does want to work and she does want to make more money. As do I, I am looking forward to having a job that makes more money. I love my job, being a teacher is great, but I just would like to make more money.

If you think your job is great, you are already rich! So many people would give up a better salary for a job they truly enjoyed.

As a side note, I thought your comment to Tamak about being touchy was uncalled for. She is entitled to have her thread be dedicated to her issues only, which are quite stressful in comparison to yours or mine.

It is considerate to keep extended discussions about your personal issues on your own thread unless the thread is dedicated to a more general topic.

You have a tendency to get people talking which is valuable here, I think, but only as long as it doesn't distract from others in need of advice.

I realize some people would much prefer to have a job they enjoy. As I said I enjoy my job, its not the greatest job in the world, but I enjoy it. Are there things about it that I do not like, of course. I don't want to switch to a job that makes more that I don't enjoy, but I don't want to just get into a rut with this one either.
I realize I tend to get people talking and I thought that is all I had done. I guess I was wrong on that one. Maybe my comment was uncalled for, I just snipped back because so often I get some form of 2x4 in here.

I think its generally considered appropriate to 2x4 someone if they are talking about doing something that goes completely against marriage builders advice. Not to get snippy although we're all human and it happens.

I find myself drawn back to your thread again and again, in you I see some aspects of my husband a few years back and the relationship we had then.