Most bullies are the same. They push and push when they believe the other party is weak or intimidated.

When the other person stands up and pushes back, the bully shuts up or walks away with his tail between his legs. There is no backbone in the bully.


Your XWH sounds like a bully. Probably explains why he has chosen the OW he has right now. At first glance she seems weaker - right? Younger, so she would seem less assertive, would need to rely on him more, would be easier to push around.

Only...it kind of turns out that this OW isn't exactly what he bargained for, doesn't it? She is pushy, mean, and pulls his strings. Just what he didn't expect, but he isn't really strong enough to bully her, because he isn't as tough as he pretends to be.


I have to laugh at them, SW. So should you.


Their fantasy was this:

Big strong older man who is in control, meets younger needy woman who can look up to him and accept his guidance and assured strength. They look forward to a future of solidarity and steadiness together.

Their reality is this:

Bully-type older guy who is full of bluster meets younger pushy b*At0*&ch who pulls his strings and they end up in a drama-filled relationship where the little woman is in charge and the old guy is dazed and confused trying to figure out what happened.



SB

You just described his mom and dad's relationship. His dad was 28 years older than his mother. She ran smack over him until the day he died. He had 3 children with her though....so neither could really 'escape'. Makes me happy to think about OW treating BH like his mom treated his dad.

Just got this email from WXH.

This is the notification that I will be taking ds10 on vacation next weekend so I would like him to spend the night with me Saturday night in addition to my regularly scheduled Friday night. I will return him Sunday evening.

Guess they are going to try it again.

Now what do I do?

I am just sick about this. Another week to worry and worry about what will happen after I drop ds off Friday evening. Ug.

Awww, SW, this thread is so sad. These wayward fathers are such turds...really sewer dwellers. They just don't see how blessed they are and how harmful their behaviors are to the well-being of their own children.

Honestly, we can't tell you what you should or should not do from a perspective that is safe for you legally. I wish your atty had returned your call because you do need to know what is allowed legally from the courts in your state.

Of course, morally, we want you to keep DS away from OW. But the clause of no overnights with OW might no be enforceable by law. It could very well be something that you could get in trouble for (parental alienation) if you personally try to enforce it by keeping DS away from OW (and from xWH by default).

I have to go with "Know your rights." Look online for the laws in your state. Try to glean as much info online regarding your situation and how your state expects it to be handled.

Hopefully, the OW clause in the custody agreement is taken seriously by your state. Meaning if XWH does violate the agreement and expose DS to OW, then your xWH can be held in contempt.

I can say that in my state, such a clause avoiding exposure to a paramour is pretty much not enforceable. Fl is very liberal in that regard and takes the position that each parent has the right to "parent as he or she fit". It's truly a sad, sick approach.

You've got to know what legally is acceptable for you to do and what xWH is legally allowed to do regarding CV. You're going to have to maneuver within the confines of what the court in your area allows. Try making contact with your atty again on Monday. Oh, and don't even respond regarding the vacay until you've gotten legal advice on how to proceed. xWH had agreed to a specific condition and now wants to renege. Say nothing about it yet; don't engage over that specific issue. 180 is your friend.

Try not to be anxious (much easier said than done). Pray the Psalms, esp the ones about the enemy and God's justice and protection.

I'm asking that our Heavenly Father protect and keep you and DS. Keep the Faith. It will be ok.

I guess I do need to talk to my attorney. The custody agreement which WXH signed off on and the judge signed off on says he can't have over nights of opposite sex. WXH says they will have seperate hotel rooms. They probably will. He has had ds around OW since January.....our divorce was final end of November last year....but no overnights with her and no 'vacations.' Too me vacations seem worse than just spending the day with her at WXH's house but I think legally I will not win in front of a judge. I am ok with dragging it out and just basically making it difficult for him and her....but it also makes it difficult for me. I am not sure how far to push it. At what point do I let go....Do I take it back in front of a judge and plead my case that I am not trying to keep ds from his father, but I don't want him to go on vacations with the woman who broke up the family?

When he 'informed' me of his intent for next weekend I only answered back and said, 'where are you taking him?' My lawyer did tell me earlier this year that I had the right to know where he is going to be.

Where is the atty letter? As SB said he is a bully and trying to push the issue.

If this is not in your divorce decree he cannot just decide to do this.

What has changed since last time. Nothing. So he is trying to scare you down. Just say "No". Let him get an atty and pay.

The decree doesn't say he can't take ds on vacations. It says he can't have overnights when ds is with him. I just don't want him to.

I will have to discuss with my attorney....but in March when this last came up when XWH wanted to take ds on vacation to FL...and said they would be in seperate units...my attorney said this...

>>I believe that arrangement will be acceptable to the judge. But I can file something to try and stop it if you want.'>>

I don't know. I am worried.

What does the decree state regarding vacations?

What he seems to be asking for is "extra time", beyond the scheduled visitation - that is what his text says. Plus, on top of that, an overnight somewhere else.

So you have two things he is asking for:

1. Time beyond his scheduled visitation
2. The overnight vacation


What does the decree state about time beyond scheduled visitation? Can you deny on that account, or are you supposed to allow vacations with dad?


SB

The decree says he gets 3 weeks of vacation with ds a year. With a weeks notice. So I can't deny on that account. Also the wording leads me to believe he did talk to his lawyer because last week he mentioned having given me the required 2 weeks notice and now he is giving me a weeks notice....so I bet he did talk to his attorney. Or maybe he read his copy of the decree--shrug.

So I have to figure out legally---and I will ask my attorney tomorrow---if I have any chance of denying based on it being an overnight vacation with her.

ok. So, you may not be able to fight this, if the atty's letter from before stands, and they keep separate rooms.

There are things that you might be able to do that can help you, though.

Pray.
Remember that she is 25. That she is selfish, and having DS around might sound alluring at first, but might turn out to be a fantasy-buster for her when it comes to "her" vacation time. She may see this as her "future", and it might tarnish the fantasy a bit. See, she might be thinking that she has your WXH all in a nice little box, and then the reality of DS comes into play: She isn't his mom, he is wary of her, she has no influence or authority in disciplinary matters, and playing "mom" gets tiresome when it interferes with having what you want when you want it. And from your description, OW is used to getting what she wants when she wants it.

DS, being a kid, will be direct competition on a vacation for that throne.


And having to sleep elsewhere will chap her behind.


She will gripe, whine, and make a butt of herself the whole time. It will NOT be fun for your WXH, because he will spend the vacation trying to make her happy.


His text to you has already indicated all is not a fantasy in fantasyland. A healthy shot of nagging and complaining for two days straight ought to help him, don't you think?


I guess if the law is not on your side, then you must look to God and trust that He knows what He is doing. We are looking up, at the underside of his tapestry. We only see a tangle of threads, sometimes a glimpse of a greater picture. Only God can see the intricacies, the delicate beauty, the perfect plan of his grand design being sewn in every stitch. He has the view - He holds the needle and chooses each color and thread. Trust His plan if things appear to go the wrong way. In the final outcome, if you stay on His path, somehow things always work to the best that they could possibly be. And that tapestry weaves a perfect ending, all of its own accord.


SB

pack his pockets full of candies that he picks out at the store. Let OW become fully aware of what it is to have a sugar daddy's boy in the car with her.

Funny KA. I am finding some peace with it.....

Now how can I compose a concession email and retain some dignity....I won't do it until I talk to attorney tomorrow, but I feel that is how it will turn out..so what do I say?

"Ok, you win, I lose." ????

Ths is beautiful and very helpful.

Thank you.

I talked to ds briefly today....I asked him, "How do you personally feel about OW?'


He actually said, 'I know what they did is really bad, but she is nice to me.'

Hmmm.....I told him I was glad of that. Glad she treated him well.

Then I said,

'ds10, if it was up to you, and I'm not saying it IS up to you, but if it was up to you, how would you feel about going on the trip to waterpark with your dad and OW?"

He said he didn't know. Then he said he didn't want to upset me. Then I asked him if he had his way would he prefer a trip with his dad alone or with gf and gf's 5 year old son. He said with the gf and son because it was more fun to play with the gf's son....

I was calm. I didn't guilt induce.

I told him that yes the entire thing was upsetting to me, but I was glad he was ok with being with them................

I probably went too far though when I asked him how he felt about the gf's ds sleeping in the bed his dad bought for him. X-neighbors let me know she spent the night last night and I assume (maybe incorrectly) that her son was there. Ds was not happy about that...and I think now I shouldnt have told him. Although I feel strongly that the X neighbor kids will tell him.....and I'd rather him hear it from me.

Why do you need to say anything?

He didn't ask you a question....



He "informed" you.

If you decide to let DS go, what I would do, is simply drop him off at scheduled time. Or better yet, have someone else drop him off at scheduled time.

If between now and then he asks you if you're going to let him go, simply reply, "yes"....in an email.

You seriously need to get yourself in a dark Plan B. You need to remove yourself from this drama and start healing.

Find yourself an intermediary. And let them spare you the triggers you're going through. I'd also change the place you are dropping DS off at. Too many triggers at that house.

Find a nearby park and agree to do drop offs and pick ups there. You need to make every effort you can not to see (or be seen) by your X. Go dark dark dark.

Oh, and I wouldn't get anything DS might need for the trip, or remind DS to bring anything he might need for the trip. That is his father's responsibility.

If he forgets his swim trunks, his dad will have to run out and buy him a new pair.

Personally, I wouldn't even send him with any swim trunks. WH wanted to take the boys swimming yesterday and DSx2 wanted to take their swim trunks. I told them that "Daddy" would have to buy them some. I send them with the clothes they wear and that's IT. If WH wants to take them somewhere on HIS time it's on HIS dime. It's what I do when I have them.

I would send DS10 with the clothes on his back. It is up to WH to provide for his child.

I agree with everything else that Marshmallow said though. A dark Plan B would save you from the drama. It would be purely a removal of yourself. That CAN'T be bad(for you).

You are right MM. I did reply back to his email and ask him 'where are you taking him?' My attorney told me he has to tell me where he is taking him....but I don't think I will press the issue at this point. I need to cut out the drama and stop thinking about it.

My parents are taking a trip to NYC---I decided this morning I am booking me and ds to go as well. It will probably cost about $3000K total but I think it will do me and ds a WORLD of good. It is a trip I've wanted to take my entire life and by George I'm going! THAT will be my new focus.

When XH dropped ds off Wednesday evening for the first time EVER (in over a year of visitation) he didn't walk him to the door. And when I dropped him off before that he wasn't standing in the driveway waiting. I can deal with that.

I certainly will not be helpful in any way. If they are going to that water park, it will sure be a quick trip if he is going to have him home Sunday evening. At this point it seems like he is doing it just to prove he can...:) I bet that takes a litte of the fun out of it.