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#2277416 11/22/09 05:58 PM
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I don't know how many of you remember my story, because it all seems to have gotten deleted in the great MB meltdown, but I think I have finally reached my limit.

Here's a quick recap:

I discovered this summer (June) that H had had an affair three years before... at which time he had left me, told me I was annoying/fat/self-righteous, and said the breakup of our marriage was all my fault. I didn't know he was having an affair, and three months later, when he wanted to get back together, I thanked my lucky stars and tried to be a better wife. Went through a lot of PTSD-like symptoms and, after three years, finally thought we might make it after all. Then I discovered everything that he'd been lying about.

Among them:
> This summer, he went on a two-week graduate school residency, and when he came home, suddenly started sleeping with his cell phone under the bed and getting very possessive/angry whenever I asked about who he might be talking to. redflag
> I found credit card statements for $200-$600 of porn a month, on a card he hides from me and will not let me see. redflag
> I googled all the sites on the credit card statements, as best I could, and found that a lot of them are "barely legal" sites, and some (particularly one in Brazil) appear to be borderline child porn (6-11 y.o. girls, clothed, but in suggestive positions). redflag redflag
> I found out he has a former conviction for domestic battery against an ex-girlfriend, which he (of course) never told me about. redflag
> Last week, he complained that I didn't wake him up on time, and I said, "well, we have two alarm clocks and I'm always running late. Why don't you set the second alarm and then you won't have to worry?" He got so angry with me that he ripped the alarm clock out of the wall and threw it several times against the bedroom wall, until it was smashed. redflag redflag
> I found a receipt for a passive GPS tracker, which I assume he was using to follow me. redflag
> He has refused to talk about any of this and threatens me with divorce anytime I try to bring it up. He claims everything is my fault, not his.

I am sure these latest additions will surprise no one who read my original threads, because everyone pretty much warned me... I think I am finally in a place where I am feeling strong enough to do what I need to do... I think. I've been in a lot of counseling to get to this point. My IC has said that I need to deal with reality and stop living in the day-to-day seemingly-happy illusion. It's really hard to do that when, on the surface, everything looks okay. It makes me feel like maybe I'm crazy, or maybe it's not really that bad. But I am trying really hard to see this as it is, and not as I want it to be.

I know that what I'm thinking about really won't be a Plan B, or anything MB really. I just know that things can't stay like this forever. I'm feeling pretty low about everything and was hoping to come here and get some motivation to finally do what I need to do and to get some emotional support. (Turtlehead and Neak's mom already 2x4'd me a lot before. Thanks, by the way.)


Anna

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I'm not going to 2 x 4 you, but just offer lend an ear to bend.

You are in a dangerous situation. That clock could be your face or head the next time you say or do something that he justifies in his warped mind.

I will be straight up. In my marriage there has been many episodes, years of emotional abuse, but I think my limit would be when my safety is in danger. I don't know what to tell you that will make the difference. However, you are so young, no children, so starting over with hardly any baggage.

Only you can decide when you have truly had enough. But please take care and be safe.


BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
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Originally Posted by QueeniesAdventures
You are in a dangerous situation. That clock could be your face or head the next time you say or do something that he justifies in his warped mind.

I know. I froze like a rabbit when he smashed that clock and just kept thinking exactly that. Just because he hasn't hit me yet doesn't mean he won't... I kind of think he will. The hidden message of smashing things seems to be, "do what I want, or this will be you."

Talked to a police officer (who I work with, not to file a report) and he advised me the same thing.

Originally Posted by QueeniesAdventures
I will be straight up. In my marriage there has been many episodes, years of emotional abuse, but I think my limit would be when my safety is in danger. I don't know what to tell you that will make the difference.

Where did you get the motivation to finally say "enough" and Plan B/D? This is my problem. I know I should, but I've tried a few times and each time I keep wussing out at the last minute. I want to stop being such a wuss.

Originally Posted by QueeniesAdventures
However, you are so young, no children, so starting over with hardly any baggage.

I feel really old lately. My big fear is that I will never have kids and will be alone forever. I couldn't bring kids into this situation anyway, so this is not an entirely rational fear, but then again, fear never is.

Originally Posted by QueeniesAdventures
Only you can decide when you have truly had enough. But please take care and be safe.

Thanks for the thoughts. I think I am almost there....


Anna

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Where did you get the motivation to finally say "enough" and Plan B? This is my problem. I know I should, but I've tried a few times and each time I keep wussing out at the last minute.
I went into Plan B because I had been doing Plan A for almost 9 months. Our situations are so different in so many ways. I didn't ever say enough. I got tired for sure and on occasion gave up, but I have been with this man since I was 18 and have 3 children with him. My SAFETY has NEVER been comprimised with him and that would be my bottom line.

I'm sure you feel ancient. I would think any time that we put our heart and soul into something and it doesn't work in our favor or as we hoped we age beyond our years. It would be really righteous of me to say oh, not having kids isn't the worst thing in life, because I have them. What I can say is that you can have all the kids in the world and still be alone.

My walk this whole time has been about my relationship with G-d. I needed to learn that NO ONE, not a husband, not children, not anything was more important than my relationship with G-d because in the end, when NO ONE was around, I still have my relationship with G-d and would NEVER be alone.

Fear - False Evidence Appearing Real
Fear - F..k everything and run

Fear is most dangerous because its about the unknown. I continue to learn every day to put my faith in G-d and KNOW that no matter what happens, G-d will get me through it. He will guide me to the life of love and happiness as long as I get out of the way.

One other thing.. FAITH and fear can't live in the same body. If you can learn to place your FAITH in G-d and ask him to take your fear then I believe you will have the courage to make any choice you need to even when its hard, scary and sad.


BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not have children with this loser. Do NOT do that to any child; please don't be that selfish.

You WILL find someone else who will cherish and honor you. This man doesn't.

Quote
threatens me with divorce anytime I try to bring it up. He claims everything is my fault, not his.
How does this look like ANYTHING related to love?

Leave now.

Oh, and go get this book. You can get it at most any library or book store: Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Conrolling Men, by Bancroft.

It will explain everything.

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Originally Posted by QueeniesAdventures
Our situations are so different in so many ways. I didn't ever say enough. I got tired for sure and on occasion gave up, but I have been with this man since I was 18 and have 3 children with him. My SAFETY has NEVER been comprimised with him and that would be my bottom line.

I definitely have never said enough... I never felt like I was "allowed" to say it, I guess. Part of me wonders, what if I just came out and said, "all this changes or I walk." Part of me thinks that it's safer to walk and say it from a distance.

Originally Posted by QueeniesAdventures
What I can say is that you can have all the kids in the world and still be alone.

I suppose. I don't think I believe in God anymore, though. I don't really have much family, either--my only brother died when I was 17, and all my relatives except my parents live at least 1,000 miles away--so the whole aloneness thing feels very real.

I've been working at developing friendships again this last year. I have been very isolated by my marriage because H refused to have anyone over or to socialize with anyone else. I think part of what's making me feel stronger is that I finally have a few friends to talk to and make me feel like I'm not crazy.

Originally Posted by QueeniesAdventures
Fear - False Evidence Appearing Real
Fear - F..k everything and run

LOL, yep, that's pretty true.


Anna

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Originally Posted by catperson
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not have children with this loser. Do NOT do that to any child; please don't be that selfish.

Cat, I already said I wasn't having children. Please don't accuse me of being selfish when I haven't been. That's exactly what my H does and I really don't need it coming from here... it's a DJ.

Last time I was on here, everyone 2x4'd me so much that it made me defensive and I spent another three months doing nothing in this marriage. I know they were right and coming with good intentions, but the effect it had on me was really, really negative. So don't do that again, okay?

I can already feel myself getting defensive of my H because of what you just said, and that's REALLY counterproductive. So stop... please. I came here to be motivated, not demotivated.

Thanks for the book recommendation. I will check it out.

Last edited by anna7900; 11/22/09 08:16 PM. Reason: consolidated two posts for clarity

Anna

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Part of me thinks that it's safer to walk and say it from a distance.
If part of you THINKS it's SAFER than you ARE safer.

You are there in the situation. You know what is truly happening. I don't think for one moment you are a stupid woman, and so what you are thinking is very real. Sometimes we just need help or saying it's ok to walk away.

PLEASE READ THIS - YOU HAVE AN INATE RIGHT TO FEEL SAFE.... That is a BASIC NEED. You have a RIGHT to feel safe. Nothing is holding you back but FEAR of being alone. I KNOW that's a very real fear. But living in FEAR of SAFETY is also a FEAR and you have a BASIC RIGHT to feel safe.

I don't have much "family" either. I only have my children. Everyone else lives far away and I don't talk to them much. Family isn't always by blood, but by experience, by sharing a common bond. We ARE family because we share a common bond of abuse, of adultery.

G-d knows you don't believe in him. That's ok, because he has enough belief for you BOTH. Could you believe that somewhere out here is a force that wants something better for you than what you have now?


BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
Plan A 9 months, DARK Plan B 3-17-08 until 3-2-09
WH and OW broke up 1-09
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Anna, I'm not talking about your H. I'm talking about YOU...



BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
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Originally Posted by QueeniesAdventures
If part of you THINKS it's SAFER than you ARE safer.

You are there in the situation. You know what is truly happening. I don't think for one moment you are a stupid woman, and so what you are thinking is very real. Sometimes we just need help or saying it's ok to walk away.

Can you live with yourself if you walk away without trying everything? I am nervous either way... IC says that I should not be, because if he really wants to change, he will do it from a distance anyway. And if he doesn't, well, it just proves he didn't really care enough. (I think he doesn't care enough.)

Originally Posted by QueeniesAdventures
PLEASE READ THIS - YOU HAVE AN INATE RIGHT TO FEEL SAFE.... That is a BASIC NEED. You have a RIGHT to feel safe. Nothing is holding you back but FEAR of being alone. I KNOW that's a very real fear. But living in FEAR of SAFETY is also a FEAR and you have a BASIC RIGHT to feel safe.

Yes, you are right. I do actually feel safe, if only because I know that nothing will happen as long as I keep my mouth shut. But that ends up silencing me and my voice totally, and it is not a way to live long-term. It is "control" over the situation only in the sense that I shrink myself into a smaller and smaller box of what he wants. (Love my IC. She has really helped me see how I have "disappeared" in this relationship.)


Anna

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You are fine, Queenie... your comments are very helpful, and I appreciate them. smile

It was catperson's DJs (H: "loser," Me: "selfish") that I objected to... sorry if I didn't make that clear.


Anna

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Explain to me, then, why it's ok for you to tell disparaging things about him, but it's not ok for us?

Why is it ok for you to say things about him that any woman with a healthy self-esteem would never accept from her husband, but when we question it, all you want to do is protect him?

I'm asking you because you NEED to be thinking about this.

What he says to you does NOT show love.

I mentioned kids because you said you worried about being alone and not having kids. I think you have 50% of a chance - at the rate you're at - of just giving in and accepting the life HE wants to have (AND having kids with him), simply because you don't want to be alone, and your self-esteem doesn't allow you to believe you CAN get another man better than this one.

btw, he threatens YOU with divorce because he knows that you are so terrified of being alone, and he knows that you have such low self esteem, that all he has to do is threaten to leave you, and you will figuratively fall to your knees and beg him to keep hurting you, just so long as he doesn't leave you.

That is full-blown manipulation, of the kind that abusers use, to CONTROL you.

You're ready for a change, or you wouldn't be here. We are here to tell you that you are right to be ready to get some self-respect and decency back in your life.

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Can you live with yourself if you walk away without trying everything? I am nervous either way... IC says that I should not be, because if he really wants to change, he will do it from a distance anyway. And if he doesn't, well, it just proves he didn't really care enough. (I think he doesn't care enough.)
AH this is an EXCELLENT question, excellent. You see, my walk was about getting the opportunity to change my behavior in my M if given the chance.

Now there are many on here who do not believe that my M is truly in recovery. I disagree, but also understand where they speak from. They speak from their experience or perception of what I am saying which isn't always said as clearly as should be.

I believe with all my heart and soul, my M is in recovery and I am getting that chance. I am changing my behavior by the choices I make for MYSELF, not H. Which is very different because what I KNOW today, my H loves me deeply, he wants to change and be M to me, but is he capable, well that remains to be seen.

Because of my YS who graduates from HS next year I have given myself a timeline of when enough is enough. I won't make a decision on what's best for me UNTIL after that time. I like YOU, DESERVE and DESIRE a life of love, respect and happiness and sometimes it is those LITTLE steps we take that gets us to the healthiest places. So, were I to walk away after that time frame, you betcha because I will have KNOWN deep in my soul that I did EVERYTHING I possibly could to start over in a new marriage and that the dysfunction lies on my H. He isn't a bad person, just someone who is sick. I have a job that will support me by myself so financially I am totally ok with doing it. I am gaining the self respect each and every day to prepare myself in the event that I believe G-d takes me.

You see, we can't control another person. We can only control ourselves. I have come to learn, live and totally TRUST, G-d has a plan for me, a plan to prosper me, where I am not hurt and in a situation that isn't healthy.

Quote
Yes, you are right. I do actually feel safe, if only because I know that nothing will happen as long as I keep my mouth shut. But that ends up silencing me and my voice totally, and it is not a way to live long-term. It is "control" over the situation only in the sense that I shrink myself into a smaller and smaller box of what he wants. (Love my IC. She has really helped me see how I have "disappeared" in this relationship.)
Your IC sounds wonderful, caring, supportive and very helpful to you. That's awesome. A rare find indeed.

I would maybe ask you to consider this response again. You feel safe as long as you don't open up your mouth... You know what, as I read this also further, Anna, you know what you need to do. And it's all in your time frame. You run this ship because it's YOUR life.

Cat and other people who come across as harsh only care about you and don't want you to hurt. Because we on here see the hurt over and over again. Some people need that nudge to get them to move.

You are doing great. Be proud of what you have accomplished by opening up your eyes and entertaining that problem. The solution and guidance will come in it's perfect timing and you get to choose that.


BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
Plan A 9 months, DARK Plan B 3-17-08 until 3-2-09
WH and OW broke up 1-09
Started over 7-09
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Originally Posted by QueeniesAdventures
AH this is an EXCELLENT question, excellent. You see, my walk was about getting the opportunity to change my behavior in my M if given the chance.

Now there are many on here who do not believe that my M is truly in recovery. I disagree, but also understand where they speak from. They speak from their experience or perception of what I am saying which isn't always said as clearly as should be.

I believe with all my heart and soul, my M is in recovery and I am getting that chance. I am changing my behavior by the choices I make for MYSELF, not H. Which is very different because what I KNOW today, my H loves me deeply, he wants to change and be M to me, but is he capable, well that remains to be seen.

Because of my YS who graduates from HS next year I have given myself a timeline of when enough is enough. I won't make a decision on what's best for me UNTIL after that time. I like YOU, DESERVE and DESIRE a life of love, respect and happiness and sometimes it is those LITTLE steps we take that gets us to the healthiest places. So, were I to walk away after that time frame, you betcha because I will have KNOWN deep in my soul that I did EVERYTHING I possibly could to start over in a new marriage and that the dysfunction lies on my H. He isn't a bad person, just someone who is sick. I have a job that will support me by myself so financially I am totally ok with doing it. I am gaining the self respect each and every day to prepare myself in the event that I believe G-d takes me.

You see, we can't control another person. We can only control ourselves. I have come to learn, live and totally TRUST, G-d has a plan for me, a plan to prosper me, where I am not hurt and in a situation that isn't healthy.

I read that Townsend and Cloud book, Boundaries in Marriage, and this sounds very much like that... for a long time I felt really powerless because I couldn't control him. I still can't, but now I realize I *can* control me, and that means that there can only be as much drama as I choose to allow in my life. But I have to be strong enough to draw the line.

It's weird, because when I got married, I never saw anything that I thought seemed dysfunctional, and yet this marriage is very dysfunctional. I know I contribute some of that--I am pretty distant lately (not always, just now that I'm starting to check out emotionally), and I kept moving my boundaries back and back, which gave him tacit permission to do whatever, because I wasn't doing anything about it. I think I have figured out that I need to have boundaries and what they should be, but I don't see that he will be crossing over onto the right side of the line... and I can't force him there. I think he is probably dysfunctional.

Quote
Your IC sounds wonderful, caring, supportive and very helpful to you. That's awesome. A rare find indeed.

I would maybe ask you to consider this response again. You feel safe as long as you don't open up your mouth... You know what, as I read this also further, Anna, you know what you need to do. And it's all in your time frame. You run this ship because it's YOUR life.

I am not sure the time will ever feel right... I have been waiting to "get mad" for months and I never really have. The IC thinks that I might never "feel" like it, but that my emotions are so skewed now from being in a bad situation so long that I need to start overruling them with reason, then hope my emotions catch up eventually. So that's what we're working on.

I do really like her. I wasn't sure I did at first, but it's been 4-5 months now and I think she has cleared my head a lot.


Anna

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but now I realize I *can* control me, and that means that there can only be as much drama as I choose to allow in my life. But I have to be strong enough to draw the line.
This is AWESOME and so accurate. You can only draw the line, one example at a time, and you will. Day by day it will happen if you learn to let a higher power or force guide you. When in doubt, speak to that very tiny quiet voice inside and hear what it says.

When will you know if you are doing what's healthy? It won't necessarily feel good, but it won't feel like you are canoeing UP the river.

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I think she has cleared my head a lot.
You were in the place to have your head cleared.

Another insightful thing that helps me, is people are doing the very best that they can. This includes you. Take it one day at a time. Look at how you have stretched and been opening today. What a great place to be in... OPEN...

You don't have to have the whole enchilada today. It will come as you are ready for whatever is to come. If you don't believe in G-d, trust the spirit that lives inside of you and is learning to grow and be healthy.

Remember, how do you eat an elephant, one bite at a time.



BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
Plan A 9 months, DARK Plan B 3-17-08 until 3-2-09
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It's weird, because when I got married, I never saw anything that I thought seemed dysfunctional, and yet this marriage is very dysfunctional. I know I contribute some of that--I am pretty distant lately (not always, just now that I'm starting to check out emotionally), and I kept moving my boundaries back and back, which gave him tacit permission to do whatever, because I wasn't doing anything about it. I think I have figured out that I need to have boundaries and what they should be, but I don't see that he will be crossing over onto the right side of the line... and I can't force him there. I think he is probably dysfunctional.
You are distant because your mind is trying to protect you from being hurt.

Quote
I think he is probably dysfunctional.
If you had a sister who said the following, would you tell her that her H was dysfunctional, or cruel?
told me I was annoying/fat/self-righteous
the breakup of our marriage was all my fault
Went through a lot of PTSD-like symptoms
credit card statements for $200-$600 of porn a month
a card he hides from me and will not let me see
child porn (6-11 y.o. girls)
conviction for domestic battery against an ex-girlfriend
ripped the alarm clock out of the wall and threw it several times against the bedroom wall, until it was smashed (simply because you suggested that he could have done differently - not even standing up to him)
GPS tracker, which I assume he was using to follow me
He claims everything is my fault, not his

anna, would you let a sister or daughter live with a man who treated her like this?

Then why do you deserve less?

Please read Why Does He Do That? this week. Please!

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Bumping this for Anna.


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It saddens me to see a person with a good heart be held hostage by fear.

The greatest liberator you can have is the understanding and knowledge that you deserve much better and that if you expect better, demand better, and look for better, then you will get it.

The things you�ve revealed about this man are disturbing.

You need to flip the tables on this man. My guess is that if he sees a woman that has suddenly grown a big spine that he will be the one scared, not you.

You would like to have kids. You certainly can�t with this man. Imagine those tantrums directed at a toddler.

The more time you spend with him, the more time you�re wasting to find a good man eventually.

But the greatest thing you can do for yourself is to leave, become content with being alone (take a good break from dating and relationships) and bail from this marriage.

Your counselor is trying to lead you down a path where you can see for yourself and understand that every minute you spend with this man is a waste of time.

You�re in love with who you think this man could be vs who he really is. He is what he is and that�s not likely to change.

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The very hardest part I learned about myself living with a SA is my part/role I played in it all. There was something that kept me in the chaos, in the drama, the unhealthy behavior. As soon as I began looking at myself, my part (not blame, but my payoff, what I got out of it all) I was able to honestly look at myself and begin to notice as it was happening.

I started feeling like Neo at the end of the first Matrix movie, when he is getting attacked and he is easily fending off blows with a curious look on his face, as though he is more a spectator in the fight... that's what life is feeling like now.



Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance!

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