She could stay focused on the things OW's done instead of making a general sweep of her personality.

She could not engage when the child argues that mom should like OW.

THAT would be entirely appropriate.

See, my main concern is not the words she uses with the child but the influence of the adultery on her family and her parent's marriage. Can you even imagine how morally confusing that is to kids? THAT is what is harmful, not the words she uses to explain the behavior. If she is "filled with hate" it is because of the destruction inflicted on her family, not because her mother told her about the destruction.

It is hateful and venomous to commit adultery, break up little kids families, break up marriages, and commit other abusive acts. It is not venomous to identify the infidels.

ok i guess i shouldn't have deleted the orginal post and i can't get it back at this point so i will retype the converstation and everyone can make there own opinions.

I ask my DD EVERYDAY how her day was. She is very bright and not to toot her horn even speaks some spanish so as for her comprehending like and dislike. Yes she gets that very much so. She is very bright for her age. So at any rate i also make sure i ask about her father. The child loves her father very much as she should. It is important to her and she does like to talk about the things they do. So this converstation took place last wed after i picked her up at the sitter and after i asked about how her day was with her friends:

Me: DD did you have fun at daddy's?

DD: Yep.

Me: What did you do?

DD: She started to go into a story about something she and the OW did.

Me: DD we don't talk about OW here?

DD: Yea we do?

Me: No we don't. Mommy doesn't like her we don't talk about her.

DD: You have to like her mommy and you have to like my daddy too.

Me: No i don't. She is the reason your daddy doesn't live with us any more. End of converstation.

DD: OOOOOHHHH you in big trouble now i tell my daddy

Me: ok

Now i know that isn't exactly how i wrote it out in the orginal post but very close. I deleted the orginal post because i was very upset by the responses and was afraid that i may have caused more damage to my child. See i have been told by many people to just sweep all of this under the rug and move on. That she is accepted and that i need to just accept she will be apart of my daughter's life. It pains me to think that right now as i type this she maybe the one tucking my DD into bed tongiht and not me. I know three years later i would hope i would be a little better but i'm not past that at this point and i am sorry. I am doing my best to teach her right from wrong. I am not perfect and i wrote my orginal post to try and get CONSTRUCTIVE feed back on how to approach the situation more appropriately in the future. I have no one else IRL that has or is going through this exactly with a child my DD and no one seems to have any advice other than to just skirt around it. I don't want her to learn this to be appropriate behavior either.

Thank you SMB, MRSW, and Melody for all of your input. I have read each and everyone of your posts several times. I wrote my orginal post because i wasn't sure if i handled it correctly and the last thing i want to do is mislead my daughter let alone cause any more conflict or confusion for her. She has enough of that already. For ex... around mother's day i was getting DD ready for her father's. While i was getting her dressed i was telling her where she was going that day.... trying to lesson confusion.... She said oh where my nudder mommy lives "other mommy lives." I corrected her by telling her "no DD... you have one mommy and one daddy" "Ow is not your mommy i am. And no one will ever replace your daddy." I am trying to do the best i can i won't be perfect but that was why i was trying to ask for guidance on these issues.

What is your plan to find out about her day when she is with OW? Are you wanting to train her to not tell you?

To keep the things she does with OW a secret?

honestly i don't know.... i don't have the answer to that. This was only the second time she has ever come up in converstation. Normally she tells me what she and daddy did or what she and OW son did. Unfortunately i don't know how to share the affection of my child with the OW. Yes she is almost three and loves most people. She is a very affectanate and caring child and i will not change that. I never once told my daught that she had to like or dislike the OW. It is a tough pill for me to swallow that i never had the chance to spend every single day of my DD childhood with her. That while i was PG my XH had other intentions about how my life would go.

I am here for suggestions on how to handle this. I am trying to do things correct or to the best of my ability. If i knew the answer i wouldn't be asking for help on how to handle this correctly. And you are right i don't know how to answer your above questions CWMI.

Stronger, it is ok if she talks to you about the OW. That is a good thing even though it is painful. You can tell her how much pain the affair has caused you. This helps you keep an eye on that scumbag and watch out for any problems. She needs to be able to come to you with any problems.

I would balance that with telling her - more as she ages - the true nature of the affair.

When I was introduced to OW growing up, many were very mean to me and you need to know if she harms your DD.

i agree with needing to make sure my DD is protected. A child psychologist friend of mine even went over with me how i needed to explain to my DD about appriopriate touch and bad touch. She works with abused children so she was a big help there. And it was age appropriate in terms of baths and who see's her with no clothes on and such. It was hard having talks like that with her in the beginning as i thought i would have more time before that, but i just incorporated that into bath time, when she gets changed, and when i used to change her diaper in the past. I want her to know she can come to me and she caught me off guard as this was not normal for her to talk about OW. I ask her about her dad's because i want to make sure she feels safe to tell me if something bad is happening there. That above all else is my concern. And you are correct it is painful to hear her talk with affection about the OW. I just need to figure out the correct balance so she feels comfortable telling me when something is wrong. Thank you.

I'm sorry, but you have instructed her to do just that, through your actions and responses. A much stronger guide to children than just words.

I feel your pain. Read my posts on "OW raising my kids" I hate hearing the stories, but I do so with a smile. I should say most of the time. Once I slipped when my DD raved about how much nicer OW was because she let her do whatever she wanted and I gave her consequences for bad behavior. On that one occassion, I let it rip and said some very unflattering things about OW. Since and before that occassion, I did my best to let my DD and DS speak freely about OW, FOR THEM. It hurt me immensely, but the tension it would bring to them to shut them down when they are sharing is the equivalent to bringing adult issues to a child.

I am so sorry for what you are going thru, but do your best to be the better person and bite the bullet. When my daughter asked about the possibility of dad marrying the OW, I even went so far to tell her it was a possibility, and then she would be her step mother. When DD rejected that possibility, I tried to smooth things over instead of feuling the fire. Said, "You like OW, don't you?" Told her everything would be ok, that mommy might get married again some day, and then she would have more people who love her in her big new extended family. It was tough because I personally would like to belt the woman. But it was what was best for my DD.

As for explaining things, it always depends on how much they know, and it seems your DD is fully exposed to the affair. However, while it may be necessary to acknowledge the affair to explain things, you don't need to blame excessively either. I just explained to my children that daddy broke the rules of being married so we can't stay married anymore.

Good luck! Read my posts on "OW raising my kids" and others like it so you know you're not alone. I am getting thru this and so will you.

Keep in mind that a child that knows right from wrong WILL dislike such a person. That is not a bad thing, but a good thing. We shouldn't be training our children to like evil people. That is IMMORAL and irresponsible. Moral relativism is a form of mental illness, not a virtue.

Her daughter SHOULD dislike the OW who helped break up her family. Stronger should not whitewash adultery to her children. That is confusing to children.

If you tell a child she should "like" someone who was instrumental in destroying her family then what kind of message does that send that child? How confusing!

I have no idea what that means and I am 53 years old. I can just imagine how confusing this explanation was to your children. They are taught that if they break a rule, the marriage is over? What rule is that? And why wouldn't you "blame" the person who is responsible?

Giving kids false explanations about the reasons for the breakup only teaches them dishonesty and confuses them about marriage. If they knew about your H's adultery they would be better prepared for the situation they find themselves in.

Sorry Melody, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. Nothing I have done or suggested goes against the "honesty is the best policy" approach of Dr. Harley, and is per the exact counseling of my children's two therapists AND their Best Interest Attorney, who eventually awarded full custody to me. The kids know that daddy broke the rules by moving in with OW and they well know the consequences of the broken home it resulted in. My very strong advice, that I still stand by per professional counsel, is that you remove the children from the tension of the adult issues as much as possible. The results of the broken family cannot be avoided and speak volumes in and of themselves. Reprimanding a child to not speak of the interaction between them and OW is not good for the child from any vantage point I can see. Nor is encouraging ill feelings for a situation they have no control but to live in. let them know the truth and make their own conclusions about it.

fellspointmom, Dr Harley is a licensed psychologist [very professional!] and he is correct about being radically honest with children. Anyone who disagrees with that is giving you bad advice.

Telling your children the truth in the absence of MORAL GUIDANCE ["letting them come to their own conclusions] is child neglect. It is the obligation of every parent to teach their child right from wrong, not to let them "make their own conclusions about it."

When parents are silent about evil, children interpret that as endorsment. That is grossly irresponsible.

While I agree that the child should not be discouraged from speaking of the OW, I disagree strongly that she should hide her ill feelings towards the OW. That is sick and dysfunctional to whitewash such a immoral situation. Like Dr Harley stated, radical honesty is the best policy.

If the child doesn't see the mother;s ill feelings about adultery, she will conclude it is an acceptable lifestyle. That is dereliction of duty as a parent.

Also, if she doesn't teach her daughter that adultery is wrong, then the infidels will surely be teaching her it is RIGHT.

I cannot possibly know without asking him directly, so perhaps you can, Mel? What does Dr H recommend in this situation given that the child is under three?

How should the mother react to the child when the child insists that Mom like the OW?

The father has been out of the home since the child was a month old. I'm not 100% certain, but I believe he's been living with OW the entire time.

This isn't an exposure case. This is a child's life, and all she has known. The way I read the OP, it sounds like a major case of boffing the child up for not knowing who she can speak about to whom--involving the child TOO much in adult affairs. Yes, mom is angry, and rightfully so.

But she can do better by her child.

Stronger needs a good plan for personal recovery, imho.

We already know what Dr Harley says about this and that is that radical honesty is order. Of course a 3 year old is unlikely to GET IT at that age, but there is no reason for her to pretend like she likes the OW.

Just a reminder of Dr Harley's advice:


And it is even more important that she discuss it with this child as she grows since she is being taught that wrong is right by her XH and his OW. There is no reason whatsoever for her to pretend she likes the OW. There is nothing healthy about whitewashing a bad situation.

Melody, letting children come to their own conclusions is not synonymous with the absences of moral guidance, nor does it contradict teaching them right from wrong. I was in support of Dr Harley AND my own professionals who knew my DD, DS and their situation well. I am just interpreting what Dr, Harley says much differently than you are. The issue isn't about telling the truth. They knew the truth (without knowing what actual sex is of course) from day one. They knew how I felt about the OW and daddy's decisions, and have seen first hand how those decisions ripped the family apart. I am speaking to the strong opposition Stronger seems to have in regard to DD having a healthy relationship with OW, and the bitterness that DD may be exposed to regarding communicating any of the minor details of a normal life with OW.

Refusing to support a healthy relationship between the DD and OW, when the relationship has been exposed, the marriage can't be saved, and when the DD has no choice but to live with the OW and have some kind of relationship with her going forward is not condoning an adulterous affair. You are speaking in extremes here. I understand the sentiment, believe me. I wished my kids hated the OW they are living with to some degree, but really don't wish that kind of turmoil on them in reality. But my marriage is over and these kids will perhaps have a lifelong relationship with this woman. If it is contentious, or if they are stressed because of MY feeling about a healthy relationship they are having with OW, it's not good for them.

I saw the change in my DD when I moved from bitterness to acceptance of the situation. They know the difference between right and wrong, have vowed they would never "break the rules of being married like daddy did" (BTW, they got that explanation right away), and now they are in a much better place now that the contention is gone from their lives.

BTW, I say all this and mean it. But if you read my previous posts, you will see that to this day I refuse to actually meet the OW. That is a degree of acceptance that I refuse to cross yet, and a stamp of validation to the adulterous affair that I refuse to offer. This despite the fact that the kids Best Interest Attorney recommended I do meet OW. I don't feel that is hurting my kids yet to not be ready to go there. One day maybe, but not today. Still, I happily listen to the stories DD and DS offer about OW, and no longer speak ill of her in their presence. That is all I am recommending, for the DDs sake.

So why is it okay for you to communicate your dislike for OW in your own particular way, but not to use words that say the same thing?

You said above something like "but you are showing them by your behaviour; much more powerful than words". Why is your behaviour acceptable when her words are not?