....

You were arguing with a three year old. YOU grow up. I know it's painful, but she is THREE. Not even three yet!

Hold your tongue around that child, please. There will be a time when she is older to discuss this with her. Now is not the time.

Gonna definately have to agree with CWMI on this one. Why on earth would you want to fill a child with hate, there ain't a good reason to. What ever happened to be the bigger person. The OM in my case threatened to kill me, scared my X so bad that she left with the kids. That was years ago and to this day, I've yet to say a bad word about him to my children, they are old enough now that they've formed their own opinions about our marriage, divorce, and the OM. OH and guess what, their opinions that they arrived to all by their lonesome are all pretty much spot on and they arrived at them without my having to resort to spewing hate.

Also, you do realize that you are allowing that woman to live rent free in your head.... Time to evict her....

thank you both for your reply. I do appreciate your brutal honesty. You are correct i did handle that poorly. It may not have come across as the way the converstation actually happened.

You are correct i need to just get over it and what happens with DD accepting her or not is apparently out of my control and she can make what ever decisions she chooses apparently. I am sorry if i upset anyone in the process wasn't my intention three's out from the discovery of the affair and i do still have a lot of hate, maybe it was the fact the OW was on the phone and occupying my then H time while i was going into the OR or the fact he took our 6 day old DD to meet her. None of that should matter now as i need to let those choices go and forget about it. Something i have been working on and have a lot of work left to do.

Again thank you for your time in posting.

StrongerthanB4, I didn't see the original message so i am not sure what the issue is, but if you imagine you can just "get over it" you are dreaming. Adultery is as traumatic as the death of a child, physical assault or RAPE. We wouldn't tell a rape victim to just "get over it" would we?

At least I hope we don't.

Hopefully you told your children that the OW is the enemy of their family and WHY adultery is immoral. Otherwise your cheater husband will be teaching them that adultery is right and justified. It is our parental obligation to give moral guidance to our children.

If we do not teach our children right from wrong, then we are guilty of gross neglect. That is a form of child abuse. Leaving a child to figure out right from wrong is child neglect. A healthy child who knows right from wrong will NATURALLY hate immoral, evil behavior. If they don't then the parent has probably neglected his moral obligation to his child.

p.s. if you dont' teach your child right from wrong, your wayward husband will teach them that wrong is right. You are the only defense they have from his immoral teachings.

If you want to screw with a kids head, expose them to a wayward [who will give them wayward "moral" lessons] and then give them NO moral teachings. That will keep them morally confused well into their adult years!

Melody thank u for ur reply I deleted the orginal post out of embarrishment. To.give you the gist my DD 3 goes to my XH and his OW appartmentt every Tuesday to wed and then every other sat to Sunday. Well last week when I was asking how her time at her father' was she started talking about the OW. I stopped her and told her we do not talk about her here. She nauturally asked why and I told her I did not like her(OW). My dd ended up telling me I had to and she was gonna tell her daddy and I would be in big trouble.....I stopped the conversation there. wait I did tell her that the OW was the reason her daddy left at one point. What wasn't in the orginal posat was that my dd has asked b4 why her daddy and his ow never came over to visit. I may not handle everything just iright but I am trying. My dd thinks that the ow is her mommy at her daddy's house. I have corrected her and he was told through our I'M to do the same thing. The correction is as such...that she only has one mommy and one daddy..yadda yadda.

I do get strong emotions invoked in me when I hear her name and it upsets me that my dd has some sort of bond with her, mainly for the reasons above. I try toanswer my dd as truthfuly as her age allows. Maybe that is wrong but I also want her to know from the start that a releationship like her father has with his OW is not right either.

I have been following ur thread on ur son....and frankly that is what I worry about....I was just loooking for guidance on how to handle this. I go to counseling and try to work through it all...I just don't want. Her to repeat her father's cycle.

As for saying ne thing mean or disrepectful about xh or ow infront ofmy dd...never happen...I don't feel me telling her that I dislike someone is consider as such. That is the most I have ever said that was an ill word about either of them.

Well, unfortunately, your H and his skankho are teaching your children that adultery is an acceptable lifestyle. If you are not honest about their filthy lifestyle, or if you help the them whitewash their crimes, your children will grow up like I did and my son did believing that wrong is right.

It is GOOD that your children understand why you don't like the OW. If you don't tell them that, they will take your silence as ENDORSEMENT, which is about the worst lesson you can give them. If you liked someone who did something so horrific to your family you will morally confuse them.

You are in a tough situation. And while you can't call the SKANK names, you can tell your children that she is an adulterer and how much pain their adultery has caused. Of course, a 3 yr old is not going to understand this yet, but she sure will when she is older.


Of course you do. As you should. Just as a rape victim has strong emotions when she sees her rapist. People who are assaulted have a reaction when they are reminded. In your case, you are assualted over and over again.

I am so sorry for your pain.

Dr. Laura show [4:25 min into segment - 5-15-08]

Caller: Husband had an affair with good friend for 2 years. Her H ws one of his "buddies."

Dr. Laura: Do you have minor children?

Caller: Yes, we both do

Dr. Laura: They are willing to hurt your kids? Why are they willing to break up the families?

caller: Basically, they said they are not "happy."

Dr L: So that is the explanation for being willing to hurt their kids? They are doing this to be "happy?"

What can I do to possibly help you?

Caller: I need to know what to tell my kids.

Dr. Laura: THE TRUTH. They are breaking up 2 families because they have decided.....

See, I am not of the school where you stand by and do pretend with kids where this is all ok. Because this is NOT OK.

The most important story is that this is NOT OK. sit down with your husband and tell him you are going to explain to our children, in a factual, non hysterical way I am going to explain to the kids the horrible thing you are doing to destroy their family. That you are "not happy" is not sufficient reason to destroy 2 families and I am going to make this clear to them because I want them to grow up understanding this is WRONG.

That is my advice. And i think everybody should be clear this is selfish behavior that is WRONG, vows were made.

Not being "happy" is something you work to turnaround, not something you destroy a family over. If both of these people were to hear this was going to happen they will have second thoughts.

DO not think for a moment you are doing wrong by telling your children this. It is your moral obligation to teach them right from wrong. EVEN when it demonstrates a parent has done wrong. The parent cannot be whitewashed and get away with that - THAT IS WRONG and that does not teach the children

I really hope alot of people hear this. Alot of ppl want to whitewash what they are doing. Kids should know that is your attitude.

But to tell the custodial parent: hey don't make me look bad for my own selfish gain is ABSURD! and is EVIL! We are going to make wrong seem ok. Kids will lose any sense of right and wrong. Kids will be taught that anything is ok as long as it makes me "happy." Kids lose any sense of right or wrong. "well, it makes me happy to use drugs" when I am 12 It makes me "happy" to get on my knees and give 4 6th graders oral sex. That is what they teach their kids.

This is what happens when you whitewash wrongdoing to make no body feel bad which is why I get called MEAN. I get called mean because I say the truth. "Its MEAN to say something is right or wrong; its mean to make somebody feel bad!" Its MEAN to say the truth. People get shut down when they get called "judgmental" when they say the truth. The intent is to shut you down. Well, I don't shut up. Kids don't learn important truths when they allow others to shut them down. We don't help our children when we don't say the truth and support them in saying what is right and wrong.

Dr. Harley on telling the children:

here



here

here

here

StrongerThanB4,

There is absolutely nothing wrong with you setting boundaries with your DD about what conversations are acceptable in your home...YOUR SANCTUARY.

You have been through hell these last few years, and it is healthy for you to have these boundaries.

It sounds like you were speaking to her in age appropriate terms.

This child is two years old and they were arguing about whether or not Stronger needed to like the OW.

That's age appropriate?

I think the OP would be the best judge of what the child can understand. Her judgement is the best, not ours.

The OP was explaining to the child WHY she does not like the OW. That is HER JOB. A 3 year old can understand that her mother does not like someone. That is not above her comprehension.

Can you just take it from those who saw the OP that it was not an age-appropriate handling of the issue?

Stronger, nobody here wants you to stuff it...if you've worn out your RL people, vent here. Vent here, then speak to your DD.

What was not "age appropriate" about it? All I have seen are posts telling her she shouldn't even be telling the child...AT ALL. That she is "filling her with hate" for telling the truth. huh? THAT does not support the notion that this wasn't "age-appropriate."

All I see here are posts telling her NOT to say anything to her child about it and that advice is inappropriate.

So what was inappropriate? Besides the advice to not the tell the child?

She was arguing with the TWO YEAR OLD that she didn't have to like OW because OW was a bad person.

No, an adult should not enter into arguments with a 2yo about who should like whom for what reason. fwiw, I didn't tell her not to be talking at all with the child about it, but that now is not the time. This is a toddler.

She can get her point across without all the 'bad evil person, yuck! I hate her!' stuff. The child is, unfortunately, without a choice in the matter, and Mom can either be firm and upstanding, or venomous.

And how would you suggest she tell the child that the OW is a bad person and is not a friend of the OP?

Absolutely!!! That OW helped destroy that child's family - she IS her enemy, and there is nothing wrong and everything right with Stronger letting her DD know this...I would not appreciate not being told if I was snuggling up next to someone who wrecked my family - sure the little girl doesn't get all of that right now, but someday she will very much appreciate being given the facts...The truth serves to protect a child...

I don't know Stronger's DD, but I can tell you that our DD was very verbal and cognizant at that age - She could absolutely have understood being told why the family split up in an age appropriate manner...

Something along the lines of: Married people are not supposed to have boyfriends or girlfriends. Daddy chose to do something that is wrong - He got a girlfriend while we were married. The girlfriend knew that Daddy was married and broke the rules anyway. This is why Mommy and Daddy are no longer married, and why I do not like girlfriend/OW.

Stronger, you did nothing wrong...(((((Stronger)))))

Mrs. W

She could stay focused on the things OW's done instead of making a general sweep of her personality.

She could not engage when the child argues that mom should like OW.

THAT would be entirely appropriate.

See, my main concern is not the words she uses with the child but the influence of the adultery on her family and her parent's marriage. Can you even imagine how morally confusing that is to kids? THAT is what is harmful, not the words she uses to explain the behavior. If she is "filled with hate" it is because of the destruction inflicted on her family, not because her mother told her about the destruction.

It is hateful and venomous to commit adultery, break up little kids families, break up marriages, and commit other abusive acts. It is not venomous to identify the infidels.

ok i guess i shouldn't have deleted the orginal post and i can't get it back at this point so i will retype the converstation and everyone can make there own opinions.

I ask my DD EVERYDAY how her day was. She is very bright and not to toot her horn even speaks some spanish so as for her comprehending like and dislike. Yes she gets that very much so. She is very bright for her age. So at any rate i also make sure i ask about her father. The child loves her father very much as she should. It is important to her and she does like to talk about the things they do. So this converstation took place last wed after i picked her up at the sitter and after i asked about how her day was with her friends:

Me: DD did you have fun at daddy's?

DD: Yep.

Me: What did you do?

DD: She started to go into a story about something she and the OW did.

Me: DD we don't talk about OW here?

DD: Yea we do?

Me: No we don't. Mommy doesn't like her we don't talk about her.

DD: You have to like her mommy and you have to like my daddy too.

Me: No i don't. She is the reason your daddy doesn't live with us any more. End of converstation.

DD: OOOOOHHHH you in big trouble now i tell my daddy

Me: ok

Now i know that isn't exactly how i wrote it out in the orginal post but very close. I deleted the orginal post because i was very upset by the responses and was afraid that i may have caused more damage to my child. See i have been told by many people to just sweep all of this under the rug and move on. That she is accepted and that i need to just accept she will be apart of my daughter's life. It pains me to think that right now as i type this she maybe the one tucking my DD into bed tongiht and not me. I know three years later i would hope i would be a little better but i'm not past that at this point and i am sorry. I am doing my best to teach her right from wrong. I am not perfect and i wrote my orginal post to try and get CONSTRUCTIVE feed back on how to approach the situation more appropriately in the future. I have no one else IRL that has or is going through this exactly with a child my DD and no one seems to have any advice other than to just skirt around it. I don't want her to learn this to be appropriate behavior either.

Thank you SMB, MRSW, and Melody for all of your input. I have read each and everyone of your posts several times. I wrote my orginal post because i wasn't sure if i handled it correctly and the last thing i want to do is mislead my daughter let alone cause any more conflict or confusion for her. She has enough of that already. For ex... around mother's day i was getting DD ready for her father's. While i was getting her dressed i was telling her where she was going that day.... trying to lesson confusion.... She said oh where my nudder mommy lives "other mommy lives." I corrected her by telling her "no DD... you have one mommy and one daddy" "Ow is not your mommy i am. And no one will ever replace your daddy." I am trying to do the best i can i won't be perfect but that was why i was trying to ask for guidance on these issues.

What is your plan to find out about her day when she is with OW? Are you wanting to train her to not tell you?

To keep the things she does with OW a secret?

honestly i don't know.... i don't have the answer to that. This was only the second time she has ever come up in converstation. Normally she tells me what she and daddy did or what she and OW son did. Unfortunately i don't know how to share the affection of my child with the OW. Yes she is almost three and loves most people. She is a very affectanate and caring child and i will not change that. I never once told my daught that she had to like or dislike the OW. It is a tough pill for me to swallow that i never had the chance to spend every single day of my DD childhood with her. That while i was PG my XH had other intentions about how my life would go.

I am here for suggestions on how to handle this. I am trying to do things correct or to the best of my ability. If i knew the answer i wouldn't be asking for help on how to handle this correctly. And you are right i don't know how to answer your above questions CWMI.

Stronger, it is ok if she talks to you about the OW. That is a good thing even though it is painful. You can tell her how much pain the affair has caused you. This helps you keep an eye on that scumbag and watch out for any problems. She needs to be able to come to you with any problems.

I would balance that with telling her - more as she ages - the true nature of the affair.

When I was introduced to OW growing up, many were very mean to me and you need to know if she harms your DD.

i agree with needing to make sure my DD is protected. A child psychologist friend of mine even went over with me how i needed to explain to my DD about appriopriate touch and bad touch. She works with abused children so she was a big help there. And it was age appropriate in terms of baths and who see's her with no clothes on and such. It was hard having talks like that with her in the beginning as i thought i would have more time before that, but i just incorporated that into bath time, when she gets changed, and when i used to change her diaper in the past. I want her to know she can come to me and she caught me off guard as this was not normal for her to talk about OW. I ask her about her dad's because i want to make sure she feels safe to tell me if something bad is happening there. That above all else is my concern. And you are correct it is painful to hear her talk with affection about the OW. I just need to figure out the correct balance so she feels comfortable telling me when something is wrong. Thank you.

I'm sorry, but you have instructed her to do just that, through your actions and responses. A much stronger guide to children than just words.

I feel your pain. Read my posts on "OW raising my kids" I hate hearing the stories, but I do so with a smile. I should say most of the time. Once I slipped when my DD raved about how much nicer OW was because she let her do whatever she wanted and I gave her consequences for bad behavior. On that one occassion, I let it rip and said some very unflattering things about OW. Since and before that occassion, I did my best to let my DD and DS speak freely about OW, FOR THEM. It hurt me immensely, but the tension it would bring to them to shut them down when they are sharing is the equivalent to bringing adult issues to a child.

I am so sorry for what you are going thru, but do your best to be the better person and bite the bullet. When my daughter asked about the possibility of dad marrying the OW, I even went so far to tell her it was a possibility, and then she would be her step mother. When DD rejected that possibility, I tried to smooth things over instead of feuling the fire. Said, "You like OW, don't you?" Told her everything would be ok, that mommy might get married again some day, and then she would have more people who love her in her big new extended family. It was tough because I personally would like to belt the woman. But it was what was best for my DD.

As for explaining things, it always depends on how much they know, and it seems your DD is fully exposed to the affair. However, while it may be necessary to acknowledge the affair to explain things, you don't need to blame excessively either. I just explained to my children that daddy broke the rules of being married so we can't stay married anymore.

Good luck! Read my posts on "OW raising my kids" and others like it so you know you're not alone. I am getting thru this and so will you.

Keep in mind that a child that knows right from wrong WILL dislike such a person. That is not a bad thing, but a good thing. We shouldn't be training our children to like evil people. That is IMMORAL and irresponsible. Moral relativism is a form of mental illness, not a virtue.

Her daughter SHOULD dislike the OW who helped break up her family. Stronger should not whitewash adultery to her children. That is confusing to children.

If you tell a child she should "like" someone who was instrumental in destroying her family then what kind of message does that send that child? How confusing!

I have no idea what that means and I am 53 years old. I can just imagine how confusing this explanation was to your children. They are taught that if they break a rule, the marriage is over? What rule is that? And why wouldn't you "blame" the person who is responsible?

Giving kids false explanations about the reasons for the breakup only teaches them dishonesty and confuses them about marriage. If they knew about your H's adultery they would be better prepared for the situation they find themselves in.

Sorry Melody, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. Nothing I have done or suggested goes against the "honesty is the best policy" approach of Dr. Harley, and is per the exact counseling of my children's two therapists AND their Best Interest Attorney, who eventually awarded full custody to me. The kids know that daddy broke the rules by moving in with OW and they well know the consequences of the broken home it resulted in. My very strong advice, that I still stand by per professional counsel, is that you remove the children from the tension of the adult issues as much as possible. The results of the broken family cannot be avoided and speak volumes in and of themselves. Reprimanding a child to not speak of the interaction between them and OW is not good for the child from any vantage point I can see. Nor is encouraging ill feelings for a situation they have no control but to live in. let them know the truth and make their own conclusions about it.

fellspointmom, Dr Harley is a licensed psychologist [very professional!] and he is correct about being radically honest with children. Anyone who disagrees with that is giving you bad advice.

Telling your children the truth in the absence of MORAL GUIDANCE ["letting them come to their own conclusions] is child neglect. It is the obligation of every parent to teach their child right from wrong, not to let them "make their own conclusions about it."

When parents are silent about evil, children interpret that as endorsment. That is grossly irresponsible.

While I agree that the child should not be discouraged from speaking of the OW, I disagree strongly that she should hide her ill feelings towards the OW. That is sick and dysfunctional to whitewash such a immoral situation. Like Dr Harley stated, radical honesty is the best policy.

If the child doesn't see the mother;s ill feelings about adultery, she will conclude it is an acceptable lifestyle. That is dereliction of duty as a parent.

Also, if she doesn't teach her daughter that adultery is wrong, then the infidels will surely be teaching her it is RIGHT.

I cannot possibly know without asking him directly, so perhaps you can, Mel? What does Dr H recommend in this situation given that the child is under three?

How should the mother react to the child when the child insists that Mom like the OW?

The father has been out of the home since the child was a month old. I'm not 100% certain, but I believe he's been living with OW the entire time.

This isn't an exposure case. This is a child's life, and all she has known. The way I read the OP, it sounds like a major case of boffing the child up for not knowing who she can speak about to whom--involving the child TOO much in adult affairs. Yes, mom is angry, and rightfully so.

But she can do better by her child.

Stronger needs a good plan for personal recovery, imho.

We already know what Dr Harley says about this and that is that radical honesty is order. Of course a 3 year old is unlikely to GET IT at that age, but there is no reason for her to pretend like she likes the OW.

Just a reminder of Dr Harley's advice:


And it is even more important that she discuss it with this child as she grows since she is being taught that wrong is right by her XH and his OW. There is no reason whatsoever for her to pretend she likes the OW. There is nothing healthy about whitewashing a bad situation.

Melody, letting children come to their own conclusions is not synonymous with the absences of moral guidance, nor does it contradict teaching them right from wrong. I was in support of Dr Harley AND my own professionals who knew my DD, DS and their situation well. I am just interpreting what Dr, Harley says much differently than you are. The issue isn't about telling the truth. They knew the truth (without knowing what actual sex is of course) from day one. They knew how I felt about the OW and daddy's decisions, and have seen first hand how those decisions ripped the family apart. I am speaking to the strong opposition Stronger seems to have in regard to DD having a healthy relationship with OW, and the bitterness that DD may be exposed to regarding communicating any of the minor details of a normal life with OW.

Refusing to support a healthy relationship between the DD and OW, when the relationship has been exposed, the marriage can't be saved, and when the DD has no choice but to live with the OW and have some kind of relationship with her going forward is not condoning an adulterous affair. You are speaking in extremes here. I understand the sentiment, believe me. I wished my kids hated the OW they are living with to some degree, but really don't wish that kind of turmoil on them in reality. But my marriage is over and these kids will perhaps have a lifelong relationship with this woman. If it is contentious, or if they are stressed because of MY feeling about a healthy relationship they are having with OW, it's not good for them.

I saw the change in my DD when I moved from bitterness to acceptance of the situation. They know the difference between right and wrong, have vowed they would never "break the rules of being married like daddy did" (BTW, they got that explanation right away), and now they are in a much better place now that the contention is gone from their lives.

BTW, I say all this and mean it. But if you read my previous posts, you will see that to this day I refuse to actually meet the OW. That is a degree of acceptance that I refuse to cross yet, and a stamp of validation to the adulterous affair that I refuse to offer. This despite the fact that the kids Best Interest Attorney recommended I do meet OW. I don't feel that is hurting my kids yet to not be ready to go there. One day maybe, but not today. Still, I happily listen to the stories DD and DS offer about OW, and no longer speak ill of her in their presence. That is all I am recommending, for the DDs sake.

So why is it okay for you to communicate your dislike for OW in your own particular way, but not to use words that say the same thing?

You said above something like "but you are showing them by your behaviour; much more powerful than words". Why is your behaviour acceptable when her words are not?

Sorry, I misquoted you. Here is what you said:

fellspointmom, letting children come to their own conclusions is a failure of moral guidance if the parent does not give them the correct moral conclusion. Children do not have the maturity or judgment to "come to their own conclusions." Leaving them to conclude right from wrong on their own is child neglect. And of course, they may conclude otherwise when they get older, but leaving them to come to a conclusion on their own causes great moral confusion and leaves them deaf and blind in an immoral environment.

Saying that this is not synonomous with a neglect of moral guidance makes no sense to me so I am not sure what you are trying to convey with those conflicting statements.

There is nothing wrong with Stronger telling her child about her feelings about the OW. There is absolutely no reason to pretend to be friendly. Doing so is dysfunctional. Dr Harley is correct when he advises being honest about her feelings:



I agree with you here. It is not in their best interest to see you befriend the OW because it would be an endorsment of adultery. Kids needs to see their parent take a stand against it.

That is not in your DD's best interest though, to be dishonest about your feelings. They need to hear your honest feelings; silence conveys endorsement.

Did you read Dr Harley's comments about this? HE is the professional, fellspointmom.

This is in direct contradiction to Dr Harley's advice:

[/quote]

This is the quote that is relevant to the OP, who in her original post stated that she told her two-year-old that the OW was a BAD PERSON. That's a DJ, eh?

Melody, does Dr. H address step-family situations where the AP is involved in the COM lives? It seems to me that everything you are quoting is about exposure during Plan A. How about something relevant to after the divorce is final?

She told the child she did not "LIKE" the OW, and that is accurate information that should be shared with the child. Dr Harley advises not to call names, etc, but the child should understand that the OW is a bad person who took her father away.



Of course it is not limited to Plan A. That makes no sense.

Not that your question makes any sense [radical honesty only being valid in Plan A] but this comment was made to a BS whose husband married the OW. They have 3 little girls:


In other words, don't call her names but be honest about the affair and her corresponding feelings.

I find it very troubling that this poster, StrongerthanB4, is treated like the bad guy on Marriage Builders for saying she doesn't like the OW, when in truth, she is the VICTIM. She was badgered in this thread to a point where she felt inclined to remove her post. That is ridiculous.

We need to keep this in perspective and remember that the bad guys are the ones who committed adultery and destroyed this child's family. The OP is not the bad guy for saying she doesn't "like" the OW.

Those of you who have criticized her for doing exactly what Dr Harley prescribes have twisted the knife in the back of someone who came here for help. That is a disgrace.

Does Dr. H address situations where the AP is involved long-term in a step-family situation?

I can't imagine, "I hate her, she is bad," is healthy for anyone over the long haul. There has to be a better answer.

Again, you don't have a clear perspective. What is unhealty is adultery. Honesty is not unhealthy. It is not unhealthy to hate adultery; that is an expression of honesty. Dr Harley's approach to LIFE - that means all situations, not just some - is as he describes:

By your own admission, you did not read what she originally posted. I do not think she is a 'bad guy' here, but an aching soul. She said much more than that she didnt like the OW.

I don't like the OW, and I don't even know her.

Nobody has a problem with her not liking the skank.

CWMI, your posts on this thread have been appalling and anything but supportive. I have not seen you consult any of the Marriage Builders material in your quotes, so I am not sure how you felt you were being helpful. What did you feel you had to contribute here?

I felt I could contribute a mirror for Stronger to look in and see how her actions were seen by an outside party.

She's not building a marriage.

She's dealing with a finalized divorce and a very VERY young child. I'm a mom. It's a soft spot.

Here is your first post to her, CWMI. You actually chastised her for saying anything. That is in direct contradiction to Dr Harley's advice.

And what does that have to do with Marriage Builders?

EDIT

EDIT

Let's get back on track and stop with the disrespect! If you cannot be supportive to this OP and help her with Marriage Builders concepts, then refrain from posting. Posters should not be condemned here!

CWMI Please contact me.

ok i want to clarify something here i have never at any point ever verbalized to my daughter that the OW is a bad person. I just stated that i didn't like her to my DD. I at no point in time stated that my DD could not like her. Yes me saying i don't like her could come across as such but as she had indicated by telling me that i had to like her... my DD does indeed like the OW and spending time with her. I never told her she wasn't allowed to or any such things. I do not talk ill about her father, OW, OW son, or even the son's father who also lives with them. Yes folks there is a ton more to this story than what i had asked.

I know i didn't handle the situtation correctly that was the exact reason i even posted her. That is why it was still bothering me almost a week later. I was trying to get some advice. And yes i go to IC and have since talked to him about what has happened. He pointed out... just as melody has.... that i do not want her to not talk about OW and what happens to keep an eye to make sure nothing bad happens to her. He does agree with the fact that my daughter needs to know the truth (age appropriate). He has also stated that i do not need to accept there relationship just to make things "easier" in the long run, BUT to not have any points of contention with them in her presence. I at no time discuss my full emotions on the situation with her present. The only things she has ever heard me say "ill" about her is that she is not her "nudder mommy" as she put it. And that i do not have to like her. Yes i was WRONG to tell her we don't talk about her and that was more of an emotional response than anything else. I was not expecting it and should have been better prepared.

Now do my XH and OW come to my mind on a daily basis. NO... not any more thank goodness. I have a happy and healthy life. The only time it plays a role is when i get triggered or when i find out my XH is 2 months behind on her health ins and it had been canceled. As an example. That is when i get frustrated that he still just doesn't get it. Again the theory that this OW takes space in mind on a daily basis is far from it. I can see how it may when i posted orginally but my wound was open up again and felt raw.

Now i didn't mean to cause all kinds of contention her just trying to find another avenue to learn how to do what is right by my daughter. I may not always do the right thing every single time but i am trying my darnedist.

**********EDIT******************

Stronger, I am really sorry you had to put up with this crap here. You should rightfully expect to be supported and helped, rather than chastised and condemned. I don't blame you for removing your post. I hope you will notify the mods the next time.

The next question i do have for y'all is how do i let my daughter talk about OW and yet let her know that i don't approve of that relationship. I know she is almost three but to me by sitting there and telling her "hunny glad you and OW had a good time..ect" i feel like that is letting her know that i accept this person. From everything i have read on this thread and on this website, books upon books, inorder to teach my DD right from wrong i should not accept her. I want to know how to it without distilling preconcieved notions into her head.

I had talked to my IC and he agrees she should know the truth as is appropriate for her age. He equated me not doing so as such...

if you tell you a child that a shot isn't going to hurt and when they recieved said shot and it does hurt. The child will most likely say .. mommy you said it won't hurt. He asked me what lesson would that teach her? I responsed that it is sometimes ok to not tell the truth.

Well i know that you should always tell the truth but my now question or issue is how do i let her talk about the OW but let her know that i do not like her or how ever you want to phrase it. By me sitting there and just listening i would feel like i am conveying the message to her that it is ok what they did and i have accepted it.

STB4, there isn't much you can teach a 3 year old about adultery. I don't think she would get it at this point. NOW, when I was introduced to my fathers adultery partner at age 4, I DID know it was wrong and found it very confusing that no adult would validate that instinct. I concluded I was a stupid girl because what seemed wrong to me was not wrong to other adults.

HOWEVER, your child has not been exposed to you and your H as a couple so she may not GET IT even at that age.

As her parent, you will be the best judge of her level of comprehension. In the meantime, I would not put on a big pretense for her and I think you did the right thing in telling her you don't like the OW. There is no reason to pretend.


The lesson that sends to the child, IMO, is that is ok to be dishonest and we both know its not.

Yes i agree that she doesn't fully comprehend relationships with adults and is at times confused. As i said the OW lives with my XH... her youngest son and that son's father. She has friends who have both parents home and understands that. She also understands that daddy doesn't live with mommy and that they have two seperate houses. She gets that. I am not at the least bit trying to educate her other than "daddy choose to live with OW and not us." I do not go into the details of when it happened or how it happened or anything inbetween.

I am just trying to learn how to balance this situation. I know there is a time and place that as she gets older she will ask the questions and more answers will be provided as her age allows. Just looking for tools on how to handle myself and what if anything i should say when she starts to talk about OW at this age... i am at a loss

Stronger - I think I "know" you - Let me see if I'm right, is it you that I once nicknamed "Esmerelda"? I may be totally wrong, and if so, just ignore me and please forgive me for being confused...If I am right though, could you drop me an email to the address in my signature?

And Stronger, sweetie, you are doing the very best you can in a very, very difficult situation - The fact that you are here asking what to do about this tells me what a good mama you are...

Mrs. W

Stronger,
I can see your dilemma and feel for you. I am somewhat in the same boat about my WWs OM and him being around my kids and them enjoying time with them (WW and OM) together. It actually hurts me deeply but alas there's not much I can do about it other than to voice how I feel about WW and her eelationship with OM. It's s difficult line to tow and at times leaves me feeling hurt and angry. My sitch is pretty common though as it pertains to custody and visitation. WW does no live with OM, although they do spend time together both at her home and his. In your case though I have a question.

If I'm reading your post correctly your XH and OW live with the father of OWs son. Is that right? If so, OMG! Not sure where you live but wouldn't that be frowned upon in the eyes of the law? Was this the situation when original custody and visitation schedule was agreed upon? I would absolutewly have serious issues with this situation and, if the option was available to me, would start proceedings to re-address the visitation schedule in court. Your 3 year old should not be exposed to this behavior period! I understand your original post was in regards to how much how do you tell your DD about the way you feel but IMO the living situation at XH place needs to be addressed in regards to exposing DD to this.

Is that correct? The OW's ex lives with them? I would be worried about the safety of your DD under these circumstances. How old is the OW son?

ITA. I see danger in this for your DD.

ok i knew this would be a source of contention and yes this has been addressed with both child services as well as with the family court. The OW son is 7 and yes his father lives with them last i knew. The court and child services have both stated there is nothing wrong with this as long as DD is not sleeping in the same room as the OW son or his father. They said there was nothing legally i could do. I contacted a lawyer and motion was made in family court and the judge said there was nothing i could do as long as DD was not sleeping in the same room. Trust me i had a FIT over this when i found out through the rumor mill. And it is aggrivating that i have tried the legal root as well as the child services root and since there is no "abuse" by their eyes going on there is no reason to change visitation.