The thing about IMs is that you can't even verify that you're talking to the same person. For example, sometimes when I open my computer I can see my daughter hasn't logged off her facebook account. I could easily strike up a conversation with her friends in the chat mode and there is NO WAY they could even verify it was me.
Secondly, I remember my daughter getting a facebook message from a boy saying he was madly in love with her. Now, he's a passionate kid, but I don't see him doing that. Well guess what? He was at the mac store using a new ipad demo unit and forgot to log out of facebook. Some total stranger started spamming all his friends with messages like that one.
So... IMs, even if they are "real" cannot be definitely your son's. If he leaves his computer logged on and has friends over, you never can tell what they might do, just to defend their friend.
A polygraph will verify your son's intent and honesty.

I hope my lawyer will point out that the IM log can be fabricated. At first, he was saying that it wouldn't even be admissible if they couldn't verify it directly from the computer, but he seems to have changed his tune about that. Now, he's saying they don't have to verify anything. I'm not sure why. He said he can request the IM record to be verified, but he doesn't want to do that, because if the record does trace back to my son's computer, then it would be even worse for our case.



Writer, this seems to be the key to your son's freedom...

How could this be worse? I would insist on an explanation.

One more thing. The girl knew my son's username and password. Apparently, an analysis could reveal not just if the IM's were sent from my son's account, but if they were sent from his actual computer. If they were sent from his account, but not his computer, we could disprove them. If they were sent from his account, from his computer, the info would probably hurt us, since he was never over at her house after the incident. She could have logged onto his account after that night, but she couldn't have done it from his computer.

Yeah, it could have been someone else on my son's computer, but really, the only people who would have had access to it would be our immediate family, and I don't see my other kids saying stuff like that and pretending to be my son. If they were going to pretend to be him as a joke or something, I'm sure they wouldn't have been saying THAT.

My son will not do anything to help himself and he will not let anyone else help him. If I try to talk to him, I get verbally abused and told how stupid I am. All he wants is to enjoy his last few days of freedom. He will not listen to me. He will not do anything I ask him to do. He will not talk to me in a decent or respectful tone. I ask him to leave the room, and he will not do it.

He won't fight this anymore. All the advice I am receiving on here won't do a bit of good if he refuses to allow me to help him. I am trying. I am listening to what everyone has to say. I want to help him. BUT HE WILL NOT DO ANYTHING! I can't do this by myself. I am not the one who has been accused of a crime. I can't fight this unless he agrees to fight as well, and he will not. Every time I bring up anything we can do, he becomes hostile, defiant, and verbally abusive.

I really can't take this anymore. I cannot take the yelling and screaming. This isn't good for me. This isn't good for the baby. I DON'T WANT TO BE HERE!

And you allow this?
(My momma would smack me!)


What does your husband think about all this?
Has he attempted to help at all?

No, I don't allow it. I asked him repeatedly to get off the computer and please leave the room. He repeatedly refused. I manually shut off the computer, and still he wouldn't leave. I had to call my H at work and have him talk to him. After a lot of yelling and screaming, my son finally went downstairs and slammed his bedroom door loud enough to probably break it.

I don't hit, so any suggestions other than smacking him would be greatly appreciated. I certainly don't want to be the doormat around here anymore, but I don't believe in physical violence either. I'm quite a bit smaller than most of the people in my house anyway.

Just checking.

Don't sell yourself short....


Get, it...



Short


...... Sounds of crickets..........


Ok, so that wasn't funny at all, but hey I tried.



My question about what your husband thinks was a more general question. I mean about the entire situation? Has he helped with the lawyer, had input into the situation, etc.

My H is generally very Type B (except for when he gets truly angry, as I mentioned a few weeks ago with the blowup that occurred between him and my son. Think Incredible Hulk). When we go to the meetings with the lawyer, he either takes over the responsibility of watching the baby during the meeting, or if we get a babysitter, he just sits there and doesn't talk. We've talked about the situation a lot, but his stance is pretty much to just trust the lawyer 100% and let him deal with everything.

Writer...I've heard of some parents who physically remove the bedroom door. Privacy is a privilege - not a right. When the teenager can learn to treat you respectfully, the door goes back on. Rinse and repeat. Seems like a pain, but doable with your husband's help. Probably won't have to do it more than once.

You can also slowly remove furniture from the bedroom. Leave just the mattress on the floor. Remove all but the essential things. Give him a clothes basket for a dresser.

You can remove his computer. Lock it up at a grandparents' house.

Soolee: My son's room is in the garage. It isn't really a bedroom. My FIL did it, though it is pretty nice for a garage room. I wouldn't feel comfortable removing the door, since then his room would be open to the rest of the garage, and we've been having a vermin problem. Something large is living in our walls. It's not in the house, but it may be able to get into the garage. Two visits from the exterminator haven't been able to catch whatever it is. I certainly wouldn't want it getting into my son's room.

The police took care of the computer. They confiscated it 4 months ago as "evidence" though as far as I can tell, no one has even looked at it since then. He's been using the "family" computer in the living room, which is old, slow, and barely works.

Writer, is there someone who is close to your son who can sit him down and explain how he needs to fight this?

How do you know that this girl has his password and account #. Have you told the attorney this? It is very important.

I think it would be worth it to have this verified especially if he did not communicate with her after Dec 20 and the first IM's were sent on the 21st.

If this blows up in the girls face you can sue her for defamation of character when she loses.

I'm going to see if our Bishop at church can talk to him, but we're running out of time. The trial is scheduled for Thursday.

My son told me that the girl had his password. They had been dating for a year and a half. She'd had it for a long time. And yes, the attorney is aware of this.

I really think we need a deferment if we are to have any hope of winning this, but I'm not sure if we can get another one. The judge seems to be really pressing to get this over with as soon as possible. It was the judge who told our attorney that he needed to talk to the DA about a plea bargain. Even the judge doesn't want the case to go to trial, though I'm not sure why or what this means.

Judges pretty much ALWAYS encourage pleas (in criminal cases) or settlements (in civil cases) because it clears their docket and moves the system along. It more than likely has NOTHING to do with the specifics of your son's case.

I guess that's good to know. At least it doesn't mean the judge thinks he would have to convict our son if it does go to trial, so he was advising us to settle for something less than he would have to impose in the case of a guilty verdict. That's what I thought it meant.

But if this is true, then it seems to me that almost everyone accused of a crime is ultimately found guilty and must suffer a punishment (since accepting a plea bargain is basically admitting guilt, at least on some level). So, once charged, you have an extremely good chance of being considered "guilty." That hardly seems right.

I used to believe that most people charged with a crime were guilty, that a case generally wouldn't go to trial unless there was enough evidence to prove the accused really committed the crime. But, in our case, there isn't much evidence at all. In fact, other than the questionable IM's and the girl's word, there isn't any evidence. Is it common for someone to be charged with a crime and have the case go all the way to trial when there is little evidence to support the charges?

Well, while I agree that your son is probably innocent of "rape" in the truest sense, he is, in fact guilty of having sex with a minor. Their age difference doesn't help, either. So if your son starts getting all surly and saying he's INNOCENT of everything, you need to remind him, "No, son, you definitely had sex with an underaged girl. Many states view that as a felony."
Also, regarding his poor attitude, it might be time to put a password lockout on the computer and have your son EARN the right to use it. Clearly, writer, many of the men and young men in your family are NOT carrying their own weight, and this is a pattern. Your son is abusive toward you when pressed because....why? Because your husband is also verbally abusive when pressed. It's funny how that works. It's the same thing I'm worried about with sister reed.
You know her story, and I'll bet you're as concerned as I am that she's raising sons who will also become abusers. Think about that cycle. You still have your younger son and your baby to consider, too. Show them a good example of firm parenting.

Of course, one might say pressing the young man, or any man after they have indicated in word and in deed they do not wish to discuss a matter a form of abusive behavior as well.

Like it or not, he's now 18, he's legally an adult, and if he doesn't want to discuss a matter, no matter what his parents think, he has the right not to discuss it. If he doesn't want to mount a defense, that is (sadly) his prerogative.

Pressing him on it is simply a form of DJ.

We would all like to see him take an active means of defense. For some reason, right or wrong, he thinks it to be fruitless.

Instead of faulting him for thinking this way, provide him with some assurance that his concerns are not well founded. After all, given that writer1 seems to think things are close to hopeless, then why chide him for adopting the same mindset?

Folks make decisions, they pay the price for those decisions. This young man chose poorly. Either he did rape her, or he chose a willing sex partner who could not be trusted. Either way, he decided to engage in the behavior. If he doesn't want to mount a defense, then it's on him.

He's had 18 years to learn how to behave. The law will likely see him as an adult, and treat him accordingly.

If there is a way to determine the IP address the IM's came from, that may help. One may need AOL or Yahoo or whomever is the IM provider to help with that information.

It is somewhat telling if the young man doesn't want to mount a defense. Perhaps he knows more than he's telling? I don't know, nor do I have an opinion either way.

What appears evident is that something makes him think he can't win. If that can be addressed, then address it. But if he doesn't want to talk, it would be abusive to keep trying to force him to have a dialog he does not wish to have.

I guess the thing rolling around in my head is....I am all for waiting until M to have sex. Somehow in spite of my stupidness I manged to do it. But I also know based on everything around me that MANY people do not, just as they did not when I was in high school. But when I was in school, if a junior girl slept with her senior boyfriend and then they broke up, there were tears, she was a little wiser in the world, and all of us reassured her that he was a jerk. I am not minimizing, but the idea that two Madly in love" teenagers succumbing to passion was somehow rape just because the girl happened not to be 17 and the boy was....It just didn't happen. I am not minimizing rape, but this idea that two high schoolers making a bad decision (that some social mores wouldn't even consider bad anymore) means the boy should be prosecuted is, in my opinion, stupid.

If all the facts are what they seem to be, your senior son and his willing girlfriend crossed a line. They then broke up - as most high school couples do, and maybe some angry teenage words were exchanged. Now he is facing lifetime repercussion for doing what teens have being doing for millenia. I'm sorry, it just doesn't seem fair. And I know you had an A, but the idea that your A somehow subliminally made your son sleep with a girl and then get arrested is stupid too. Not EVERYTHING on earth comes down to the fact that someone had an affair.

I tell ya, writer, it's probably good that I don't live near you. I'd be chomping at the bit to write an angry letter to somebody!

Aside from your son giving up I wouldn't pay to much attention to his attitude. He's feeling sorry for himself and maybe victimized. He's just a kid.

Have you tryed any of the links shown to you about protecting him from poor representation? This seems nessesary with this lawyer and nobody would blame you,(or should), for ding everything to protect your son.

She knows his IM info and the password? OMG, jeez, whathaveyou! Sounds like a setup.

Yeah Gack maybe the judge wanting to talk to the family is because he smells a rat. I was hoping this accually.

Again Writer, did you call those people who represent those who have not been represented correctly in the court system?

And did you get the information from the net and whatever other sources that shows the wenchs family are wackos to your lawyer?

I'm kinda an idiot when it comes to the law, writer, but regardless of what your son does in his own defense, can't you as a parent work with the lawyer to do what you can to help him.

We don't grow out of needing our parents, do we? If so, I'm in big trouble because I'm 47 and still lean on my parents from time to time, if only emotionally. He might be a pain in the butt right now, but he needs ya, Mom.

Anyway...don't you want to get to the bottom of this, writer? I know he's your baby, but if he did something wrong and is lying - don't you want to know? Could it be that you might be afraid to know? Likewise, wouldn't it be a horrible waste of his youth if he has to suffer over a lie?

I know this sounds corny, but maybe the kid just needs a big long hug now, writer - that and his mother and father telling him they believe him and reminding him that it's safe to come to you if he can remember anything else. Maybe that would be the difference between trying and giving up.