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Plan B is to protect any love you have left for her from being destroyed. It's also to protect any love she may have for you from being destroyed when your Taker completely revolts based because of Plan A. Sometimes, people go into Plan B after less than a month of Plan A.

That said, I'd like to share my thoughts on the depression. Today's meds work much faster than the old stuff from 20 years ago. Sometimes they take 4 weeks. For me, they kick in within 4 days. That said, exercise has proven as effective as medication when combined with talk therapy. If your treatment is anything that you ingest, like St. Johns' Wort, I suggest you get a psychiatrist to help monitor you if your counselor isn't one. Supplements can have side effects and people react differently to different substances. For example, I cannot take Xanax. It causes depression in me. My GP prescribed it after my H died, and he couldn't believe that it made me a worse mess. BUT, my friends in pharma said it has been documented to have that effect on a small percentage of people. I learned my lesson and I don't take any pscyho anything without checkign with my psychiatrist.



Meanwhile, you can get a divorce lawyer to help protect yourself. Try not to take the property division personally. Saving your marriage is personal. Divorce, or protecting against divorce, is business.



























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Well, I talked to the wife. We got into it a little, but I also saw some progress. She said all those things were in there because her lawyer told her she's entitled to them and she had to put them in. She even objected to a few of them. I told her that's okay, that I have to protest them and counter. She said that she wasn't going to take the alimony but put right back into the account. I said intentions are good, but if it's in the papers, you can keep it and not do that. I have to protect myself and the boys.


ME: 48
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She also said that she sees the changes in me and is impressed and she's trying to let that effect her, but she is still in pain. She also said that she never completely denied going back to MC, just wait another month for her to heal. She also said she was going to go to IC when the summer is over and she is not working 65 hrs/week to support herself. That is more promising things in 1/2 hour than I have heard since Feb. when this started; or in the last 10 years. I am encouraged, especially about the IC for her because that is the only way I will take her back. I said that to her and that is when she mentioned her going to IC after swim season is over. But I am still going to protect myself and my boys financially. I am going to counter everything and fight for child support. It's nice that she said she wouldn't keep it, but I need it all in writing!


ME: 48
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KC, thanks. Greengables thanks for reading my thread and putting in your 2 cents. My counselor is actually a PhD. biochemist who used to do cancer research. He realized that after they fixed the body, the mind was still in need of repair. So he went and got his masters and cert. in counseling to help the cancer patients and then went wholly into counseling and got out of the research. He recommended SAMe, it is a compound that has been researched since the 70's and found to have great effects on depression, it has been given thorough blind studies and scientific research and is not just another supplement with hype. As for the exercise, I'm doing it in spades. I workout at the gym 3 times a week for 2 hours and then every other day I ride 40-45 miles on my bike. I take Sundays off to rest. I have lost 56 pounds as of yesterday and want to keep losing. I was always built large and the extra weight wasn't hugely noticeably, but the weight loss and body building is vastly noticeable and is helping my psyche.


ME: 48
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Originally Posted by awokenhubby
She said that she wasn't going to take the alimony but put right back into the account. I said intentions are good, but if it's in the papers, you can keep it and not do that. I have to protect myself and the boys.

Hey A-Wok,

Good response. If it's put into the agreement, that is what she gets. And that is what she keeps. Remember that alimony is taxable income to her (and deductible to you), so from a tax return perspective, I wouldn't do the revolving cash door thing.

TBC



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Okay, so after our phone conversation, she comes over to check on the dog like I asked her to because she is taking him for the weekend. I am out shopping for younger son and my rugby tournament/camping trip. She then texts me and says that she is paying the tire bill and part of the dentist bill for her. "She will make a copy of the bill and check and drop it off. she then says to breathe deep and hang in there. We can work out details with lawyers without hurting each other." "Try to have a good weekend and drive safe. If meds are not good tell your Dr. PLEASE!" This is the first time in 3 months that she has actually been nice and showed concern for me. Is she trying to lull me into a sense of complacency now that I am getting tough on finances and legal stuff, or is this her having some stirrings because I showed her that I have a set and won't tolerate her games?


ME: 48
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The "working out details with lawyers" line seems to carry more weight than the "meds" line. At least that's how it looks way out here in the cheap seats.....

I don't think these are stirrings -- at least not in the sense of moving back towards the M.......

Sorry, but just my take.....

TBC



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I think you're right TBC. I don't think she is ready to work on the marriage yet. She still hasn't realized what she lost. She lamented to me that I am not a single parent. That I could call her and ask her to do the grocery shopping or run the boys someplace, or take them to an appointment. She doesn't get the whole you moved out and left us, so you don't get to play mom anymore. Younger son is very mad at her and at this point he overheard me talking to my lawyer about her lawyer's proposal and doesn't even want to talk to her. She is mad that I am saying that I am a single parent and have to run the house and take care of everything. When I said "well I am" she said "now you know how I felt". She still hasn't realized that it will be this way permanently.


ME: 48
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Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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You ARE single parenting and no, one spouse cannot call the other to do this and that, they must learn to live independent lives when they separate. It could be that she is being nice out of a sense of guilt, but I wouldn't try and analyze it, you can drive yourself nuts with it and still not come up with any answers...it is what it is. You are doing well to realize you need to get everything worked out in a legal contract because you cannot rely on anything a divorcing spouse says.

You say she still hasn't realized it will be that way permanently. That is part of what plan B is about...helping them to see how it will be...it does give them a chance to really think about that before making it permanent.


Enacting life's lessons into positive change... .
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awokenhubby, here is an MB thread which you might find interesting. Apologies if you've already seen it:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2279757&page=1




Me, BW
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Exactly! Thanks for digging that up...great point made. I think they actually have a better chance of seeing clearly if you cut them off...otherwise they seem to just cake eat and live in fantasy world.

My ex...he quit his job, went missing, stuck me with all the bills, I filed a missing person's report, they found him living with (another) OW in OUR new motor home! I never even got to spend one night in it...but I had to pay for it since my name was on it.
He actually had the audacity to say "You didn't have to go and get a divorce..."
???
Oh, didn't I? It's just how they think...
He called me after the divorce and wanted me to help him file unemployment, look for work, do books for his impending business, yada yada yada. Right.


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Hey awoke been out of town for two weeks, just barely caught up on your thread.

Have you thought about when you are going into plan B? I know when you got the papers from her lawyer what she wanted after the divorce triggered you a little bit, and I don't blame you, but you have to remember that actions speak louder then words, even though she is being nice to you don't pay attention to it, don't believe it, what YOU DO BELIEVE is her ACTIONS! Believing her words will only give you false hope that you can save your marriage. Then when you finally see what she is truly doing it will be too late.

I suggest you start and finish your plan B letter, post it here so we can help you with it, find a date either next week or in 2 weeks and if she hasn't changed her mind that she wants to fix the marriage, and still doesn't konw what she wants, then give her the letter, don't listen to her when she says "give me another month" bla bla bla that is just another lie.

Good luck!

Last edited by SapphireReturns; 07/30/10 01:29 PM.
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Hey all,
Thanks for all the advice. I just got back from a 4 day rugby weekend with my son and his friend. I had a great time both playing and camping and bonding with my son. It felt awesome to be able to play that way again after losing 55 pounds. It also gave me a chance to rejuvenate mentally. I am ready to give it some more time in plan A, I do see some movement on her part. She texted me a few times while I was gone to tell me about what she was doing. She called me on the way home to tell me something about my older son and then chatted for 10 more minutes about her weekend and she asked about mine, something she hasn't done in probably 6 months. She took my older son out to dinner while we were driving home, and then dropped him off when I was home and got out and chatted with me for about 0.5 hours. I fixed her bike tire for her and gave her some tools to carry with her to try to meet her needs. She told me about some shirts she saw for the slimmer me and said she was going to pick them up for me, but she wanted me to pick them out myself. I may ask her to come with me and give me her opinion on them; she always dressed me well and it would give us some time together! I wonder if she is going to counseling without telling me. When I had the blowout with her about the lawyer's letter before I left, she tried some counseling techniques to settle the situation, something she has never done before, like she just learned it. She actually calmed herself down and me as well and we continued our conversation. The texts, phone call, and personal visit today were all positive and upbeat. So maybe I'm delusional, but I see some progress in our relationship.


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Mulan,
I just read the link you gave, Thanks. I keep telling my ex-wife it won't be that way. I have said I am a single parent and must meet all of both sons' needs. I can not rely on you if we are separating, you are not part of this household. So maybe this is having something to do with the change in her position towards us. She seems to trying to be part of us, now I need to see if this is her trying to debate coming back or just being a cake eater. I will see what August brings in terms of progress and decide about plan B then, unless something happens before then to make me decide one way or the other. I am moving ahead with the separating the financial and untangling our lives from each other like the car insurance, the cell phone, and the house. I am moving ahead with a new lawyer and a counter offer to her lawyer's offer. I will keep working on us and meeting her needs and trying to deposit in the LB, but also plan for ending it and going to plan B. The depression meds may not have had time to kick in yet, it's only been 5 days, but the weekend was as therapeutic as meds and I am in a good place again to continue for a little longer and see what it can bring about.


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The vibe I get is that she has the idea that you guys will be friends after you D. This is all smoke and mirrors to assuage her guilt. It�s her way of saying, �See, we can be friends afterall.�

It�s cake eating so long as the A isn�t over.

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Helpthelostdads,
That is why I am making sure she knows the way it will be and refusing any of her help. Either we are married and a couple or we have no relationship. If it doesn't work under one roof, it doesn't work as just friends. I don't know how exes can be that way. If you can make it work as friends, you can definitely make it work as spouses!


ME: 48
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Move out day: July 1st 2010
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Hey A-Wok,

The 'Fantasy Divorce' thread is very valuable and insightful. I've said in the past that there are many ways to skin a cat (or save a M), and one of them is sending a torpedo straight into the S.S. Fantasy Divorce.....

You seem to have a pretty good handle on the concept. That's good.

Hang in there.

TBC



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Originally Posted by awokenhubby
Helpthelostdads,
That is why I am making sure she knows the way it will be and refusing any of her help.

Fixing her bike tire and having her pick out your clothes is not showing her the way it will be. You're enabling her cake-eating fantasy.


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Originally Posted by kaycstamper
Fixing her bike tire and having her pick out your clothes is not showing her the way it will be. You're enabling her cake-eating fantasy.

I think it is totally fine to do those things together that make the marriage better. Stuff together that makes you both happy, fufilling needs, don't forget POJA and PORA also. This is what happy married couples do that do not have any sign of an affair.

WARNING: Don't forget about the stick of Plan A. (That is how I read kay's post above). It is very easy to get into a plan A rut where there is carrot and no stick. We call it plan doormat where you enable the WS to cake eat.

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Thanks both KC and wheels. It seems to be a fine line between the two sides. Any idea on how to stay on one side and avoid the stickless, cake eating, enabling ways? I thought that because she wants to ride and couldn't get the tire off herself, I was showing her what she will be missing without me, as well as meet her needs. The clothes part was a way of getting us to spend time together so we could interact. With her moved out, we don't do that and I am trying to make opportunities so she can see the "new" me. I haven't done anything else for her, especially when it comes to her apartment or her private life, so I didn't think I was doing a plan doormat.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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