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This is what could happen:

You go along with your husband (he's in denial and trying to put you where he is, i.e. it's in your head, your making something out of nothing..it's what he wants to believe)

Your feelings grow and grow for OM. OM knows this and is just downplaying to your husband.

Husband allows you to continue on.

OM plays along until he can get you off by yourself.
Makes his move
You fall for it and sleep with him

You either hide it from your husband and keep on for the thrill and you are "in love" with OM

or

You confess because you can't deal with the guilt after a short or long period of time.

or

Your husband discovers the PA on his own

End result:
Devastated husband

Destroyed marriage

You have to stop this..even if your husband refuses to acknowledge it.

He's burying his head in the sand
One of Satan's greatest tricks is to get people to believe he doesn't exist.
This affair exists and it will continue if you don't stop it.

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I don't understand your husband's reactions to all of this. You're doing something most of us (the ones betrayed) would have given anything for in terms of having our waywards come to us before they actually acted on the feelings they had.

His reaction puzzles me and it is dangerous in the sense that he has an approach to things that if he's not dealing with them, then they aren't really happening. He also has a very unrealistic expectation and dismissal about you and your feelings.

In a way, this is what I feel is the big flaw in your marriage and the one thing you're seeking in the OM. You want your H to feel passionate about you and the only thing he seems to feel passion about is the avoidance of the truth and dealing with it.

Others can weigh in on this, but I can't fault you or bop you over the head much when you're doing everything we recommend and he continues to choose to stick his head in the sand.

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...so we had a pretty good weekend (with this whole thing pushed aside...again). I went on to speak to my sibling and mother about it. They were both surprised that I had the audacity to tell my husband such a thing...and surprised by his reaction. My mother concurs that DH just doesn't want to accept that I could have feelings for anyone else because he loves me so much (and doesn't want there to be a possibility of losing me).

She believes he is doing a "dangerous" thing not to listen to what I'm saying. She thinks most people wouldn't even say it before acting on it.

(BTW, I was reading HNHN and my mother asked to see what I was reading. She read all of the parts that I highlighted...and she liked the book. I might start passing the books around. It never hurts for everyone to have a refresher course on how to maintain, or improve, their marriages.) smile

In any case, I think I've done all the homework I've been given thus far. *lol* I'm not going to say anything else to DH about this. What should I be doing now?

Incidentally, I DO understand that this is a slippery slope. My mind, being free to do whatever it wants, aimlessly wandered to OM (and I remind myself what I am trying to accomplish here with MB). But I just have to remember for myself that my feelings are the same for OM...regardless of DH's reaction...and I have to steel myself against those feelings and move forward in my recovery. What next?

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Quote:
What next?


No Contact with OM

This is always next.

Keep affair proofing your marriage..you're on the right track.

Kudos for nipping this in the bud on the onset hurray

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fm you need a plan for enforcing your boundaries. It will be difficult b/c I get the feeling your husband is going to fight you on this. He may even purposefully expose you to OM to 'prove' that there is nothing for him to be worried about.

You need to let your DH know, in no uncertain terms, that you don't want OM in your home, you don't want him mentioned - ever. PERIOD.

If your husband mentions him, tell him to stop - that you don't want to hear it, and leave the room.

Tell you husband you will never go to an event in which OM is involved.

And stick to it.

Determine your boundaries. Build your walls high and strong.


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Any time you think about OM, you need to replace those thoughts with your DH. You need to change you thought pattern. Your DH needs to become your focus once again. You are doing so well. Keep it up.

I have loaned out HNHN and FILSIL. The friends reading those are very impressed by them. laugh


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
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Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

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I agree to protect your marriage, no contact is a must for you, ask your husband to have his relationship with OM by himself that you can't take the chance being around him.
Tell your husband that you are doing what is right for you because of your feelings and for what is best for your marriage and you hope that he can respect and understand your decisions....
It is unusual that your husband is reacting the way he is, maybe to painful for him to even acknowledge the fact that his wife has feelings for his friend....think about it that has to be hurtful even though he is not accepting it as truth......
some people are like that if they don't acknowledge a problem it doesn't exist.....
not right but a way of protecting ones emotional well being.......
You have to do what you have to do right now because you are stronger right now....that is what marriage is about, one has to be strong when the other isn't.....might be one of those times for you two.......
In the meantime I would maybe go to some IC sessions to make sure you can withdraw from your feelings for the OM without any long term problems......
Remember the affair was fantasy and not real life......sometimes our minds can make up all kinds of stuff that really isn't the truth......we just assume everyone else is on board with our thinking, not usually so..........
Be strong my friend and listen to the vets, they are wise beyond your years, they have a lot of experience to relate the facts to, you are not special here, they have seen all that you are thinking and saying.......


BW 56
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Married 25 years, live together for 2, dated 2 years before that.....
DS 23, DS 25
D-Day Nov 23/09
NC Mar 1/10
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So I have been lurking around for the last couple of days. It helps to read the site to keep myself on task. I am writing nowON MY THREADcause I actually miss you *lol*and I have been banned from other threads. smile [Do you think Im ready to post on other threads, yet? I do have something to say about the whole soulmate thing.]

Everything has died down around here. All of this is behind me and we are moving on (DH & I) like none of this occurred. This is what DH needs to feel happyand as the WW I know that I am supposed to meet his ENs. There has been lots of affection (non-SF) between us. My DH is proud of me for??? I have no clue.

I hate to even mention this because you have already given me the answer to thisI know the answer. BUT I am highly concerned about this wedding. DH wants to go and wants us to shop for a new suit for him. I am hopeful that OM will not attendwhile the other half of my sick mind iswell, suffice it to say, I wont be crying into my catered meal that I have to look at OM.

I dont know how to get out of it without causing trouble.

I just cannot talk to DH about this anymorebut I have to set these boundaries

I have been reading everyones stories: ElCamino, Vanilla, Atenathen, I go back and read posts that they made to me. It makes even more sense given their own stories. Thanks, againI hope you all are doing wellElCamino, I am sorry. Thank you for even posting to me at all in the past given how the stories relate. You have been helpful to me. Your pain and your words are not lost on me. I hope you get through this tough spot.

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Quote:
All of this is behind me and we are moving on (DH & I) like none of this occurred



Quote:
I am hopeful that OM will not attendwhile the other half of my sick mind iswell, suffice it to say, I wont be crying into my catered meal that I have to look at OM.



The latter part of this quote clearly states that this is far from being behind you.

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I am not an advocate of lying AT ALL. But truthfully, if telling DH why you don't want to be at the wedding doesn't work, then I recommend getting "sick" the day of the wedding. Do a Ferris Bueller if you have to! smile

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Originally Posted By: fullmoon16

I have been reading everyones stories: ElCamino, Vanilla, Atenathen, I go back and read posts that they made to me. It makes even more sense given their own stories.


I think you're certainly right - our stories and experiences influence the way we view situations and how/what we post. However, you'll find that with affairs there is a predictable path that many of us have either walked or been run over on. An affair is an affair is an affair. So while we all speak from our own biases, there will be much commonality in what is said. Different faces of the same beast.

The same is true for MB (in a good way), in that there is a very particular path that many here have walked, and the principles and common themes do not change.

It's good that you're reading. Keep it up, especially w/ the BS threads.

Also, ditto on the wedding stuff. You know the mantra: NC. It's especially important now, though, given your proximity to D-day and your still warm and fuzzy feelings for OM. Please, have more respect for your M, your H, and yourself.


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You know, I just accept him for who he is: indifferent, nonchalant, emotionally inpenetrable(when it comes to certain things)... He's truely genuinely happy because he doesn't allow "the world", other people's opinions, other people's problems get to him. It is a magnificent thing to see. How many people do you know who are truely unequivocally and stubbornly steadfast in their happiness? That's H. I really love and admire that about him.


OMG, fullmoon, this gave me the shivers because this is exactly how I felt about my WH before the A. But let me tell you this is not a good way to be - this is a scary kind of happiness.

This might be me rambling but Pepperband recently posted a thread about smart people being stupid in other areas of their life.
My WH is a very intelligent man, Phd, reputable scientist in his research field BUT when it comes to emotions I have always known he had problems. Emotionally, he was 'illiterate' and he had no interest in learning to read.

We had 12 wonderful years together where we loved each other deeply. He was very 'happy' with me in the way you describe above. However his attitude in life (and particularly with emotional problems) has always been to tell himself that these problems do not exist and to ignore them until that becomes true.

I 'admired' this about him because I am a bit of a worrier and when something doesn't feel right for me with someone e.g. a disagreement with my brother, say, or a dispute at work etc I need to talk about it, tackle it and sort it out. I can't be at ease when this kind of problem is niggling at me. He, on other hand, behaved as if nothing was there and sometimes he was right because I worried about nothing but I realised when big issues came into our lives a number of years ago, his attitude was not healthy at all.

We had a baby who died during labour. Just before she was born, the midwife asked if we wanted to hold her. I hesitated because I was afraid but said yes. I held her for half an hour but WH refused to even look at her. He never cried or got upset or mentioned her name and refused to discuss my loss with me. The warning sign was there but I didn't want to see it.
Then when my mother died (he knew her for 13 years and they got on well) after a long illness, my family got a call to go to the hospital to be with her when she died. Instead to coming to be with me at the hospital, he went to the pub with friends and didn't even mention to them that his MIL was in the process of dying.
I could give other examples but when the A blindsided him, he was totally incapable of handling his emotions and facing up to them because he has always avoided them.

No matter how you 'love' this side of him, just as I loved this side of my H, I now know this is not a good, healthy way to behave in life. As Socrates says 'The unexamined life is not worth living.'


Courage is the most important of all the virtues, because without courage you can't practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but nothing consistently without courage.
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Just to add, the truly scary bit here is not that he doesn't let 'other people's problems get to him', it's that he doesn't let his own problems get to him.

And he does have a problem here. Don't let it go. redflag

Does he have a problem with empathy? It sounds like it. My WH does.


Courage is the most important of all the virtues, because without courage you can't practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but nothing consistently without courage.
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I am feeling quite discouraged today. Theres nothing particularly special about today. I dont know why.

But, I believe that it is impossible for DH to meet my ENs.
Maybe I am too ENy. smile

Isnt it possible that one spouse could be too needy for the other?

I am considering just spending a few nights away from home. I hope it might do the trickwake him up, wake me up. I think Ill just go stay with my family for a couple nights. They only live a half hour away from us. I hope to go tonight.

When does Dr. Harley tend to recommend abreak? (I am reading HNHNnot SAA since DH doesnt consider this A, I thought Id just try to figure out how we could meet each others ENs.)

Tully, Of course, I can relate to those things that youve mentioned. DH has never cried in all of the years that I have known himand we have been through some pretty tough times. I would casually mention it to him maybe once a year in passing. How is it possible that someone never hurts or cries? When I tell him something that a person would typically find hurtful, he tells me that he is not hurt, he is disappointedand then he proceeds to ignore it. Conversely, Im too comfortable being led around by my emotions.

Tully, Is your M in recovery? How did you get through to your H?

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Originally Posted By: tully
I 'admired' this about him because I am a bit of a worrier and when something doesn't feel right for me with someone e.g. a disagreement with my brother, say, or a dispute at work etc I need to talk about it, tackle it and sort it out. I can't be at ease when this kind of problem is niggling at me. He, on other hand, behaved as if nothing was there and sometimes he was right because I worried about nothing but I realised when big issues came into our lives a number of years ago, his attitude was not healthy at all.


Not sure if it helps, but often I think the key here is to "decouple" certain aspects of one's character. Most traits people have sort of have two sides to them. For example, trusting, responsible, and consistent are generally considered good qualities. Gullible, anxious, inflexible, are generally not. But they generally come in pairs like this.

I can't remember who the quote belongs to, but I read someone say "the only thing someone needs in order to change is to want to change." But because these traits come in pairs, the desire to change is often lacking. For example, a person who prides themselves on being consistent, tends to remain inflexible, because (generally subconciously) they see this part of themselves as one thing. Once they realize they can be consistent, the quality they like, without being inflexible, the quality they don't like, changing it becomes easier.

I think it works the same way with our spouses sometimes. We are looking for them to change the "dark" side of something, and they are hearing (or feeling) that they have to change the "light" side of it.


Me 43 BH
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Originally Posted By: fullmoon16
Tully, Of course, I can relate to those things that youve mentioned. DH has never cried in all of the years that I have known himand we have been through some pretty tough times. I would casually mention it to him maybe once a year in passing. How is it possible that someone never hurts or cries? When I tell him something that a person would typically find hurtful, he tells me that he is not hurt, he is disappointedand then he proceeds to ignore it. Conversely, Im too comfortable being led around by my emotions.


Most men are taught to deny their emotions, and this can certainly get overdeveloped.

Addtionally, many people, not just men start to link feeling bad with being a failure. The logic being if one were good enough, nothing bad would ever happen, if nothing bad can ever happen, then one should never feel bad, therefore if one feels bad, they must not be good enough, in fact they are a failure.

Of course this doesn't work in the real world, since no matter how good one is, bad things can and will happen. So they typically start to deny reality (ignore the bad thing or claim it wasn't bad) and if that doesn't work they start to deny their emotions. Obviously, most people wouldn't realize they are thinking like this.

Originally Posted By: fullmoon16
Isnt it possible that one spouse could be too needy for the other?


It's possible, I guess, but not probable. Do you think your needs are realistic?

BTW, unless you're in danger, leaving for a few days usually doesn't help.


Me 43 BH
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D-day July, 2005
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fullmoon, While I was reading your thread I kept thinking, this is exactly how WH would have reacted! Many people here seemed surprised that he refused to see the problem and kept insisting that it must be because you were not being honest enough in your explanation to him. But I don't think so, I don't think it's you, I think he will do anything to avoid seeing the problem and therefore having to deal with it.

For example his rejection of this website and the advice you are getting here is just how WH would have reacted. If you don't like the message, block out the sound, refuse to believe it and, if all else fails, kill the messenger. And the more threatening the message, the more neccessary it is to block it out.

Quote:
Tully, Is your M in recovery? How did you get through to your H?


I am not in R. I am divorcing. I have thought for thousands of hours about how I might have avoided getting here and I still don't know what I could have done differently.
I am racking my brains to think about how you might avoid it.

Just to go a bit Freudian on you for a minute (not normally my style as I'm fairly down to earth) but I wonder if subsconsciously you are aware that something is wrong here and your EA is an attempt to give your relationship an electric shock to alert him to the problem. If it is, then please, this is not the way to go.

I hope I'm wrong and that I am projecting unfairly on your poor innocent H my experiences with my WH. But I'm not sure I am. I know that all of our characteristics have positives and negatives ends to their spectrums and that what makes us most special and loveable is also what people find most irritating and difficult about us. But this is different. I think his complete incapability of dealing with feelings is unhealthy not merely irritating.
In itself this is not the big problem, the real problem is that he doesn't acknowledge and accept his weakness. It's like a blind man who refuses to accept that he is blind and walks out onto the road. If he acknowledges his handicap and asks for the right help he can still have a full, good life.

I'm still thinking...


Courage is the most important of all the virtues, because without courage you can't practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but nothing consistently without courage.
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PS I wouldn't leave, even for a few days.


Courage is the most important of all the virtues, because without courage you can't practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but nothing consistently without courage.
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So DH and OM are going to a concert tomorrow with the guys (whoever that entails) tomorrow evening.I dont mind, I hope they have funbut no fun for me, having to hear about him, and not see himhmm.I dont know how I am ever going to progress in my recovery with him in my life, the 3rd wheel in my relationship. When is he going to get married? That might help.

Tully, I am still slightly confused about how I could get myself into such a situationand willing to consider any theory that would lead me to the lightincluding Freudian ones. smile I told Mark that this all happened in an instant, one day we were all talking, and in that momentboom!...my soulmate was revealed to me. (Disclaimer: I believe that people can have more than one soulmateso ONE of my soulmates was revealed to me. In my past, I have met at least 2 others. Theyreconveniently enoughall male.)

Anyway, Mark, explained to me with great care and detail, how the mind worksand how it is not likely that this occurred all in an instant. Maybe there could have been all kinds of subconscious stuffsome about the bickering (aka withdrawals from my LB) with very little emotions/passion, etc. (aka deposits to my LB)so OM flirts, its invigorating, I accept his flirtations...and look where that got me.

all worked up over nothing, no release, DH out having a good time with OM, properly scolded on the internet by people who have already walked in my shoes, oft-times confusedand in purgatory. I cant recover without support from DH. I got into this mess without DH helpwhy cant I get out of it without him?
And if I do get out of it, if things dont changewhats to stop it from happening again? (I hope my newfound wisdom and following MB principles. I hope it's enough.)

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Originally Posted By: fullmoon16
I got into this mess without DH helpwhy cant I get out of it without him?
And if I do get out of it, if things dont changewhats to stop it from happening again? (I hope my newfound wisdom and following MB principles. I hope it's enough.)


You can't get out of it without him precisely because of situations like this concert. NC applies to both the WW and the BH. Every time he goes out with his friend he triggers you. He brings back your feelings for OM. Every time. You start right back at square one.

OM being married won't help the situation. It'll just bring one more person into the equation to be hurt.

If you can't get your husband to realize he is responsible for your love of him, he is responsible for your feelings, and he is responsible for protecting that love, then you leave your marriage VERY vulnerable.

I know you admire your husband as strong. I don't see him that way. I see him as weak. I see him as preferring to bury his head in the sand, rather than deal with anything he feels incapable of dealing with. He just convinces himself it doesn't matter. It DOES matter.

Think about it - if you could just 'switch' off emotions like that - what is to stop you from 'switching' off your emotions for HIM like that? THAT should be a frightening thought.

My fear is that over time, your husband will wear you down on the issue of NC with OM. Possibly as a way to 'prove' to himself he's a better man. To use your heart as the testing ground for your marriage. He'll expose you again and again to the OM, because each time you avoid OM and pick him, he wins.

Or, he just doesn't care - your worries for your marriage are irrelevant and shouldn't change HIS behavior. That's an even more frightening possibility. Your worries don't matter enough to him to be willing to do anything about it, even AFTER you've told him how dire the situation is.

And over time, you'll wear down. You will succumb. No matter how strong you build your walls, Contact with OM by you or your husband will be a chink in your fortifications.


Me & DH: 28
Married 8/20/05
1DD, 9 mo.
Just Lookin' and Learnin'
HIYA!
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