Writer,

I won't try and answer the marriage question, but I want to go back to what I suggested abut moving. Tell me to shut up for being an ignorant foreigner if appropriate!

Could you for now move to a dirt-cheap state and live off the capital from the house? Could you move first, release enough money to tide you over for, say, a year, and trust that within that time a job will become available?

If not: Does your H's company have any other branches? Could he transfer? I'm sure you have ruled that out already, but I just thought I'd ask.

I am a lawyer. But I am not your lawyer. And this is not legal advice. This is merely background educational material about hypothetical situations.

We get stiffed for payment all the time. By people who have lots of money. And we rarely sue them. A client who asks for time to pay isn't stiffing their lawyer. They are just asking for some extra time to pay. Most lawyers hate to sue for fees. Forces them to justify that their work was worth what they charged. If the lawyer fears that the client can make a good faith argument that the lawyer committed malpractice or an ethical violation (like say forcing an innocent child to take a plea bargain because the lawyer did not want to spend the time investigating the facts of the case), I would be surprised if the lawyer wants to sue that client for $1300. Not saying it can't happen. But there are reasons to think it won't, and a person facing limited finances might well expect their lawyer to be patient.

Writer, I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said, but I'll emphasize a few:
1. Your DS21 HAS to start supporting himself. Think of it as though you are drowning, and a man, 21-years-old, is right next to you and knows perfectly well how to swim. Instead, he just grabs on and makes you support him, a DS16 and a baby. The only one who definitely deserves to be supported is the baby.
2. If your DS16 is behind in school, he needs to buckle down. He'd have less time to smoke marajuana if he was working at starbucks. Time for him to get a job, too. And DS21 should try to get a better-paying job--maybe at your H's call center? He is a grown man and grown men don't work at starbucks.
3. If you read back the last three pages, every suggestion thrown at you is pushed aside. There ARE options available that don't involve sleeping on your mom's dirty couch. BUT they are uncomfortable choices. They require you to break out, take chances, and try something unfamiliar to you. Think of it like you're in a building that's on fire. All the "safe" routes are gone. You need to find a new way out. Don't just sit in the corner and say there are no options. RELOCATE NOW. You can deal with the probation for your DS18 as you go, but just find good work and move to where it is. And good work means it's a good paycheck, and it's relatively stable. It probably won't utilize your creative writing degree, as you mentioned. Get on the internet and find a private school looking to hire some teachers, and apply. If you get the job, pick up and MOVE.
4. The bank doesn't want your house, and the lawyer doesn't want to sue you. Go back to both of them, as well as all your creditors, and explain that you're in financial dire straits, but are willing to work out a payment plan.
It's really time to stop complaining about all of this and start taking action. And tell your husband he needs to get on board with this as well, if he wants the marriage to survive.

Is your husband REFUSING to give you the passwords to the online accounts? If not, you have absolutely no excuse for not being apprised of your own finances. If he is, then you have a much bigger problem on your hands.

Get those passwords TODAY.

I agree with ima - you are amazingly contrarian with virtually every suggestion people throw at you, some of them quite good. You are drowning in a maelstrom of your own negative energy. You have a toddler to take care of and a son whose life is going down the toilet (and I'm not talking about the one in detention). You MUST snap out of it.

Those three posts were right on.

As far the marriage goes, Is it the distance you feel from him or the problems that make you want to run?

People never plan to fail but they do fail to plan.

You guys need a plan. I know you have personal issues with H, but the wolf is at the door, you can fix the money problems if everyone is honest, fair, and on board.

I've been in many jobs and shined but never made the fortune 500, One things for certain, there are no small jobs, just small people. When we had to eat, I would do whatever it took.

Our family lived in basements, had to move many times, went to food banks, stuffed our pride down and worked for peanuts just to survive.

My 25 year old daughter has a house, my 23 year old son is top saleman and building credit, 19 year old son feels guilty if he goes off budget to buy a softdrink. All this after watching their Mom screw up for years while loving her and going home for a reason that makes no sense to them, drugs. They still will give me thier last dime if I asked.

Poverty is a state of mind, Panic makes things worse. Denial is a reaction you can't afford and you have a lot to work with.

Two young men who can suck it up and help, a husband who is home, and a Mom who cares.

You all have your health and there is a baby to support. Every able bodied Man should be working towards getting finances under control, and that should be thier priority. There is no "my money" or individual projects or aspirations that mean more than the basics.

You seem to have a lack of one-ness in your home. Everybody for themselves seems to be the norm. Lack of communication without anger seems impossible. Is this something your husband had at one time and lost? What does he want or expect? You need a plan for both finances and relationship.

No Writer, there are problems at home, but its up to you guys to work out the issues you have found yourself in. I assure you you're human and yes its been tough, but running away or should we call it, giving up is the only time you are beat. Do or die, go down swinging, but know what your fighting.

For right now, I would attack the financial problems and if the selfish issues get fixed in the process, well good, if they don't see the light, thats thier problem.

Work the problem, make a plan. Don't panic, think.

God Bless

As far as the kids go, I'd ask them. "Hey how much money do you have this week?, Oh good I'll need some for electricity, Thank you and enjoy the TV tonight, the cable is basic but theres American idol."

If they WAAWAA, tell um to talk to the electric company, or move to someplace that doesn't require electricity, like a refrigerator box. Its outta your hands.

Make sure you tell them you love them as you gently push them from the nest.

I'm really not meaning to push aside everyone's advice. I'm trying my best to do everything that I can, but I feel like I'm trying alone. I think CP had it right, in that everyone in my house has their own agenda and we can't seem to work together because it is very much every man for himself. I'm willing to do things differently, but I don't feel like others are and I just don't know how I can fix this by myself, though it very much feels like I have to if it's going to get fixed.

I am trying my best to find a job, any job, that will get us out of here and someplace we can afford. It's frustrating, because I don't seem to get any response from most of the jobs I apply to. I know right now each available job is getting hundreds of applications more than normal and they probably don't have the resources to respond to every candidate, but that doesn't make it any easier. I know my H is trying his best to find something as well. We're having people look at our resumes and offer advice, applying to dozens of jobs a day. We're open to going almost anywhere.

SC: We have no equity in our home to live off of. We are about $70,000 upside down on our mortgage. We simply can't move without a job because we don't have a penny to our name anywhere. My H has applied for sales jobs in his company, which would allow us to relocate to wherever the territory was, but he has never gotten one. He recently applied for a computer support tech position with his company, but it is here in So-Cal. It might pay a little better, but after more than 10 years with the company, he hasn't received a single promotion he's applied for, so I'm not holding my breath. They seem pretty comfortable keeping him where he's at.

DS 21 has had some health problems lately that I haven't mentioned on here, mostly because I've been too busy talking about everything else. A year ago, while he was in Alaska, he started having some strange symptoms: numbness in his arms, face and head, racing heartbeat, panic attacks, chest pain. He's been having the problems off and on ever since. He's gone to the ER (without insurance and now has lots of medical bills that he can't pay) and they can't find anything wrong, so they say it must be stress. I've looked up the symptoms, and they seem to fit with Lyme Disease, but when we asked the doctor about it, they said you can't get Lyme Disease in Alaska. I did some research and discovered that, while not common, Lyme has been found in Alaska. DS 21 finally has health insurance through his job starting this month, so now he'll be able to go to the doctor and hopefully we'll find out what's going on, but I've been trying not to place too much additional stress on him because of that. He does need to start paying rent, and I am going to talk to him about that, as well as a timeline for moving out on his own.

As for the attorney, he wasn't happy when we cut his monthly payments from $800 to $400, but I guess he's just going to have to live with it. I'm sure further cuts are going to be necessary. I guess he could sue us, but he'd really have to take a number, and I don't see that I have much he could take that would be worth anything anyway.

I think the first thing my H and I need to do is sit down and talk and try to get ourselves on the same page. Yes, we need a plan, and one that both of us can be enthusiastic about.

I just want to second what Hold said about lawyers. When I was working for a law firm, we were owed more than $50,000 my a millionaire, and we kept doing work for him anyway. Send your lawyer a note explaining why you can't afford to pay right now. Then don't pay them until either you have the money, or until (this is very unlikely though) they actually sue you. If you do get served papers by them, you will still have months to pay them back and get the suit dropped before it goes to court.

Starbucks is actually a pretty decent job for a young man. They have benefits and pay a bit above other jobs of the same type. In this economy it is tough to find employment even at minimum wage.

writer, what is your H's plan if he is not paying the mortgage? To just wait until your are evicted and then have to find a rental?

writer...this is going to sound odd, and I'm hoping it isn't insulting given your college background, but with your youngest child and needing you near...I was wondering if selling on ebay or doing Pampered Chef would be a feasible plan? I've even seen Pampered Chef items ON ebay...

I've also seen Avon web pages and Avon being sold on ebay. I was thinking you could also ask the local librarian to put up a poster for you for tutoring and term paper services. You could meet the student at the library.

Just an idea.

Thank you for the ideas. Nothing is insulting at this point, so don't worry about it. The Pampered Chef thing is a long-standing joke in our family. You may have to be LDS to understand the joke, but let's just say almost every woman I know at church sells something: chocolates, Avon, Tupperware, candles, jewelry. It's a pretty glutted market wherever there is a large LDS population. Every time I see someone from Relief Society approaching, I turn and run in the other direction, because I just know she's going to try to hand me a catalogue or invite me to another candle party. I came up with the idea of going into the "intimate apparel" business and handing them my own booklet for sex toys and lingerie every time they hand me something from Avon or Tupperware, just to get them to leave me alone, but I'm not sure if anyone would appreciate the humor in that.

Let's just say I'm really not the selling type.

I just applied to a tutoring service in the area yesterday, so I should hear something back from that in a few days. That's much more up my alley.

Starbucks really isn't bad. It's one of the few jobs in that caliber that offer benefits, and my son really needs the medical right now.

The job market here is terrible. It was never great to begin with. The only major employer in the area is the school district, and finding work in a school in California is like finding the Fountain of Youth. It ain't gonna happen.

I don't know what my H's plan is. I keep asking him that, and I keep suggesting we may want to come up with one you know, just in case he comes home one day and I'm sitting on the sofa in the middle of the street surrounded by all our furniture. We've been looking at rentals, but they're so expensive. When everyone started losing their houses around here 2 years ago, they flooded the rental market. So, while housing prices have plummeted, rents have soared. I think he's hoping to find a job somewhere far, far away, but we kind of need a plan if that doesn't happen.

Writer:

Please do NOT complain about how "Open and Honest" you want things to be from your Husband. You have done that twice in the last week, and it is disgusting

Your affair and your OC negated ALL THAT.

Maybe your husband took the money from his mother and spent it on other things. You deserve, as his W, to KNOW what the money went to. And since you are drowning in debt, you deserve to know what is happening to his salary, and anything else coming into your house.

Your house payment hasn't been made in 3 months. You have filed for a loan modification. The bank doesn't WANT your house. They may, or MAY NOT foreclose in 3 months. There are timelines, and there are the experiences of your neighbors. Neither apply here. Your case is YOUR case. Keep working it. I have seen some excellent loan modifications that have occurred. Payments dropping from $3k to $1.2k a month. It would be NICE to get an answer TODAY, but that is NOT how they operate. Follow thier instructions, and work it as much as you can. Start making your payments, and then you re-start the clock. My sister has let her house go to foreclosure, and even after 8 months (15 months of no-pay), she still has access to the house....

Your not planning to fail. But you ARE NOT planning to avoid failure.

Tell the attorney the next time he ASKS for cash, that your son, when he returns from Juvie and gets a job, he will start to pay $100 a month, THEN. Attorneys are not generally aggressive $$ collecters. And your account is going to the bottom of the pile now, because he knows your uncollectible, and the case is settles. All his leverage is gone.

Use THAT money to pay your mortgage.

Stop treating your H like the enemy.

All this stress can blow up the family. Especially if the "Blame Game" starts. And unfortunately, you hold a very weak hand. It appears that your H, even with his anger problems, has seemed to maintain his job for ten years. Thank him for this. No "buts" after you thank him.

Thank him for supporting you and the baby.
Thank him for supporting your other children.
Thank him for getting ANY support from his other family members.

If he is gambling it, drinking it, or porning it away, this extra cash, then THAT has to be dealt with.

Things ARE tough for you right now. Yes, your DS21 should be paying something towards the household. But that isn't the real problem. His $50 to $100 won't matter.

Your licensed as a teacher? Or a least qualified in this area. And were teaching until the baby was born. Time to go back. The cut backs and the budget crunches in SoCal make it difficult for you to do so, but it can't stop you. DS21 can watch the child in the morn, and DS16 can take the afternoon shift. Its the price they pay to live there.

There is a way out. When your going thru he!!, keep going! It is the only way out.

This too, shall pass. It is easy to think that it won't. Been there, done that. Start planning to make a difference. This thing took a long time to get off the rails, but it can go back on.

There is wonderful support and advice here for you. You just have to start implementing some of it.

LG

My personal opinion is that ALL of these schemes are indentured servitude.

LG

Ah...oh well. (lol)

I'm just gonna throw these ideas out to you and whoever. I always find ideas like this intriguing because it has always interested me how people got along generations ago - maybe hundreds of years ago out west, but they aren't meant to insult anyone in any way. Just a few ideas and websites I found to amuse and maybe even use...

Emergency plan for housing could be a campground, as awful as it may sound. Some measure of security, showers, possibly electricity...some will allow you to stay for 2 weeks at a time - an adventure for your kids if you present it that way.

Putting some family members in one bedroom and renting out the bedroom that they vacate. You'd want it to be someone you feel you can trust and with good references.

Scaling back your expenses - going over each one individually to make sure you're doing all you can (which I imagine you already are.) Teenagers used to help out with expenses all the time. They can babysit, pump gas, mow lawns and trim hedges, and deliver newspapers. (My 18-year-old nephew takes care of a cemetery. He also chauffeurs the elderly women in our family to doctor visits and the grocery store for money.)

Sometimes...It isn't so much a lack of money as what you actually do with the money that's coming in.

I once saw a few websites that might be interesting for families on a tight budget. I'll see if I can find them.

Helpful website

Frugal Family

Tightwad Times

The Simple Dollar

If nothing else, the websites might be a distraction from the anxiety in our lives. Maybe make ourselves something to drink and just meander through them for the break. Hang in there.

LG- Even though I'm the FBW in my sitch, I don't think it's appropriate to say just because writer had the A and the OC, that H gets a free pass. Let's face it--H is probably under-employed, and he has been physically and verbally abusive to writer and her children in front of the baby. NO pass being offered here.
Writer, do you use LinkedIn? If not, get on it, and find as many business and former colleagues and teachers and professors that might remember you. Link to ALL of them. Then, send out a status note to say you're looking for employment opportunities. Don't be afraid to ask for virtual references from those who appreciate your work, either. This method is very effective in getting in the back door to find employment.
Regarding Starbucks, I gotta beg to differ--if that's the best job your son can find, perhaps he should consider the armed services? If he doesn't have any marketable skills, any technical knowledge, etc., then maybe a stint in the army or navy might offer him that training. Plus, it could pay for college, if he chooses to go that route.
Why is it that your Husband is not getting promoted? Is he getting substandard reviews? He should sit down with his supervisor and see what is holding him back. Has he had the same supervisor this whole time, or is this a problem that spans multiple supervisors? Lots of things to think about, I know...
Also, what about working at a daycare? Usually, they will let you put your own child in for free or deep discount, while working there.

Ima:

You stated this:


She has been using this OC as the reason that she can't DO SO MANY THINGS. That has got to a stick in the eye to her BH every day, donchathink?

This thread is littered with those excuses.

Her H at least, has a job. Maybe he is underemployed. But in this family, that is far ahead of most everyone else. I understand the ocal economy sucks, so he deserves the thanks for WHAT he is providing.

And he does need to get into anger management class. He needs to work on some things. I am not letting HIM off of the hook. I am calling out writer for HER actions however.

But Writers inability to even be romotely affectionate with him is telling. Like all this is his fault.

I feel for writer and her sitch. That is why I post. But waiting for someone else to save her (OM) is pointless.

LG

LG: The problem with your logic is that I was a BS long before I was ever a WS. My H spent the first 10 years lying to me about so many things I couldn't even begin to list them here. It was just one thing after another. Sometimes, YEARS would go by before he would confess some new contact with the OW or some new thing that had happened that he didn't want to tell me. I fully admit that, after a decade of this, I emotionally checked out of my M. I went into self-protection mode, and that led a great deal of emotional distance between me and my H and ultimately my A. Yes, I am responsible for my A. I fully acknowledge that even after all the lies and deceits that formed the foundation of my M, I still had no right to do what I did. But my H didn't have any right to do what he did either. The biggest problem in our M has been a lack of O&H. HE is the one that chose to do that, not me. I was never dishonest with him. I told him about my A less than 2 days after it started. That doesn't excuse it in any way, but I went right to him and told him how bad I had messed up and how completely screwed up my feelings and emotions were. But the truth is, they had been messed up for years before I had my A. I really had reached a point where I didn't know if I could ever trust him again.

So, to tell me that I have no right to expect O&H from my H is way out of line. I have every right to expect that after all the lies he told me. And things have been getting better in that respect, until the thing with the house payment. It's very hard for me when my H lies to me about anything, because then it makes me start doubting him again.

As far as the teaching goes, I do not have a credential. I was a substitute teacher, but I didn't work the school year when the baby was born, so I was taken off the sub list. The school has not reopened the sub list since then, so I cannot get back on it.

Solee: Actually, the last time we went camping up in the Redwoods, I remember thinking I could live like this permanently. There was a bathroom nearby with a shower. I had my fire pit and dutch oven. I was good to go. I'm not sure if it's sustainable, but I wouldn't mind.

Ima: I don't know why my H has never been promoted. In every one of his reviews, he consistently "meets" or "exceeds" expectations. He is always in the top 3 for calls taken. In every sales promotion they have done, he has always placed in the top 2 (he is usually #1). I don't think it's anything he's doing wrong. I've seen the reviews and the awards he has won (including employee of the year).

I would love to work at a daycare. I would need to go to school and get the minimum 12 EC units, so I'm not eligible right now. The pay isn't good around here, but if I could take my daughter with me for little cost, it might work out.

Have you contacted the United Way in your area? I know they have a lot of different programs to help families in crisis.

On another matter, you really SHOULD consider moving to Texas, especially if you're worried about being sued for debt. Texas is one of the few states where your wages can't be garnished by creditors (except student loans, child support and taxes). That would at least buy you a little time to get on your feet to start saving money and repaying debt.

If your husband has been on the same job for over 10 years, he shouldn't have too many problems finding a job. Have you contacted any recruiters? Here in Texas we have recruiters who find people to fill both temp and full-time jobs. In fact, I started out at the lawfirm where I am five years ago as a temp-to-perm.

I've heard that the cost of living in CA is extremely high compared to Texas. In fact, we seem to have an influx of Californians into Austin as of late for that very reason. I dunno, something to think about.

PM, I would LOVE to live in Austin. We were there a few years ago and it's a beautiful city. I fell in love with the hill country.

Where do you find these recruiters? We have temp-to-hire placement agencies here. Is that the same thing?

My H just got his resume made over by three friends, including a former supervisor, and a big-whig who works in the film industry in Hollywood. We do have a lot of connections. My H's cousin is also helping him out, and he is the Vice President of Finance for Golden State Foods, the company that services all of the McDonald's in the state of CA. Certainly something good will come from all this.