Upside down in a house, family emergency and lot of bills, I would speak to a bankruptcy attorney. It might be time for a fresh start. You can always pay back bills post bankruptcy, you need to explore all legal options on the table to make an informed decision.

Good news, I hope this is part of an upswing that will help strengthen your whole family as well as you and the H.

Don't let the chance slip by you guys, celibrate every little victory, and steel your resolve to have the best stinkin marraige ever. You can do this, and you both can do it even better together.

God bless writer

Hi Writer,

Have a little time today so thought I would look in here and see how you are doing. How is your son doing based on your last visit? Are you allowed to phone him ocasionally or just visit?

When I read your last several posts about relocation at this time I felt some concern. Obviously you guys know your financial situation better than anyone else, but relocation is a stressful and complicated process, especially if you own a home as you do, and it is something I would be reluctant to do without a decent financial reserve. Even if you have a new job on the other end. There can be alot of extraordinary costs including moving expense, and if you are going to have to rent at the other end instead of buy, the security deposit in addition to first month's rent. I certainly understand your desire to leave that area, but w/o a financial buffer this fall would probably not be the right time. If your equity is underwater, your home would have to be sold short, and that would require the apporval of the lender, and probably an agreement to pay off at least part of the balance after a sale. This would add an additional payment to your monthly outflow.

This is just my opinion Writer, but if I were in your shoes I would focus on trying to get current regarding the mortgage - at the very least begin to make payments now so that the default does not increase. Same goes for the property taxes or you will accrue penalties and interest. I agree 100% with everyone on placing the attorney fees at the end of your list. I would reduce your payments to something like $25 per month to at least keep the payment stream going, and put the remaining $775 toward the monthly mortgage. Writer I believe that most county governments have some sort of financial planning and budgeting counseling for a low cost or even free. I think you and H need to keep a strict monthly budget and this type of resource could help. I was really astounded when you said that he had reneged on the mortgage payments w/o your knowledge, and that all he could describe is that the funds must have been spent on other stuff. In my mind and view this is a major default in a marriage. I would have had my head handed to me by my W if I had done anything like that in our younger days. I really feel you need to inform him that you are taking over all of the budget and finance responsibilities.

I am just very concerned for you Writer that you are running the risk of adding much more stress to your situation. You deserve much more and you deserve time now to refocus and regroup.

Tom

Writer,

Been catching up on your thread.

Some suggestions that go along with what you have heard.

Obama a few months back approved more home loan bailouts. I think there was some additional information given out today.

Call your bank. Your family would qualify even with H working full time. Get your loan modified to a workable amount.

If you decide to relocate don't foreclose. Again work with the bank and ask them if you are eligible for a "short sale".

Eg: If you owe 200K on your home and your home is worth 150K then the bank will "forgive" the rest of the mortgage and it won't be as financial devastating as a foreclosure in te future. A good realtor will know of this option.

Write down every single penny that BOTH of you spend in the next month even if go buy a cup of coffee.

Really look at this and you will see what an eye opener it can be. Those quick trips to the market, "cheap meals" at fast food, movie rentals then start to cut away.

I cut back on my cell phone plan, dropped newspaper deliveries, changed my withholding from 0 to 2, dropped some premium channels, went from eating out lunch 3x a week to 1x every week or 2. (lost weight with that cost cutting tip too!)

I saved almost $300 a month.

My electricity bill dropped $50 a month when I started shutting off the extra lights.

I reduced the amount of water for the yard.

Had friends over instead of going out f and did pot luck dinners

I have a good job but with the D I am paying all of the mortgage that I got stuck with. Next year DD goes to college and I am trying to figure that out.

So I found a 2nd job cleaning vacation condos by my house. I have a master degree and I am cleaning toilets and making beds for $9/hour. Humbling yes...but guess what I am making between $300/$400 extra a month and I am putting it towards a college fund for DD. Pride will not pay bills; I will have my pride when she walks and gets her degree 5 years from now.

Work with your H and sit down and see all the bills. You say you don't know where the money is going -- well take responsibility for the finances also by knowing what money is going out.

Time to get to work.

Yeah writer, The calmer you are about this and the more planning you do, the better off you are in every aspect.

Take what suggestions you need from this place and put them on paper, talk to ther family and make a plan.

Remember, Bond, James bond, cool calm and collective. Take the bull by the horns, and all those cliches.

You can do it!!

The thing is, I really don't want my house. I hate my house. I hate my neighborhood. I hate my town. I live in a place that is 90% rentals. Most of my neighbors do not speak English and are not in the country legally. There are gangs, graffiti, and meth labs galore. My house is old and run-down and I can't afford to fix it. The county has tried to have our neighborhood declared "blighted" a number of times, and it defies logic as to why they haven't succeeded. If this isn't blighted, I can't imagine what is. I don't have any friends here. I don't know anyone. I can't take the baby outside to play. We're stuck in the house alone all day.

I know relocating is expensive, but I have already spent 10 years of my life living in a place that I hate. It makes me want to jump off a bridge thinking about being stuck here even one more minute. I figured out that my A had a lot to do with this. I'm not making excuses, mind you, because there are none, but when I had my A, I didn't just fall in love with the OM (he wasn't all that great, to be honest with you). I fell in love with everything he represented. I fell in love with Vermont and New England (he's from New Hampshire, but we met in Vermont when we were going to school together). I went to a residency in Vermont once every 6 months for 2 years, and I fell in love with it. I loved the trees and how green everything was and how differently the people there looked at the world and life in general. I saw something different than the dead, dry, hot place where I live, filled with stupid, uneducated people who think it's perfectly fine to consider shooting at each other a hobby.

I remember wanting to get out of CA even when I was a little girl. There are some really nice, beautiful places here, and about 1% of the population can afford to live in them. I'm never going to be that 1%. There isn't anything for me here. There are no jobs. I can't clean vacation homes. There are none. Sure, the coast is nice, but it's 50 miles away. No one in their right mind would want to vacation where I live.

I know, I'm ranting and rambling. I just hate this place so much. I'd gladly live in a tent if it was the only way I could get out of here. I just can't spend the rest of my life here. I almost gave up my marriage and my entire family, because I thought that was the only way I could ever escape this place. Now, I'm beginning to fear that maybe it was, and that thought scares me to death.

OK, get the heck outta CAl then. I understand how you feel about the place, but how can you deal with the house and not lose everything you paid allready? There must be some way to sell it to someone who can rent it instead of losing it in a forclosure.

I have to laugh about what you said about Vermont, loudly. My wife came from Vermont, her Mom and Dad were alcoholics and terrible parents. Mom died on the streets and Dad was one of those who ridiculed everybody when he got drunk. Much of my wifes issues came from them and the atmosphere up there was exactly what gave my wife the urge to drink. All of her family drank, and refused to see what it did to her, and she was to proud to admit it.

Vermont has some fine people but the little snowbound log cabin and the field of cows thing is window dressing just like the sandy beaches of Cali is to us northeasters. The grass is allways greener.

I come from the Bershire hills in western Mass. We have,(had), a strong tourist bussiness there. The people from NYC would come there and enjoy quaint little city,(Pittsfield), and how clean it appeared. In the fall it was the foilage season, the winter was the ski tours and areas, the summer was tanglewood and the variuos camping areas named after indians.

We were refered to as apple knockers, lol. Its another facade, Yes it was a good place to raise kids, but kids found drugs and gangs were around, just not as bad as you probably are experiencing.

In the country around there were also ignorant people as well as good ones. In the quaint little town I grew up in the neigbors kid shoved a loaded 12GA. in my face when things didn't go right with a football game. He was 10 and I was 12. His parents were proud of him because he, "Stood up for himself", the town cop was afraid of them and my parents did next to nothing about it. When a teenager it was common for gangs to come raid your house. It wasn't until I got my own group of people together to fight back that it stopped. I was no angel, but I was peaceful. It was my own activity of partys and what-not that attracted them to begin with.

Where were my parents you might ask? Dad working two jobs and Mom one trying to build the american dream.

I guess my point is, wherever you go, keep your family as the priority and help them to learn to avoid trouble. It is everywhere if we look for it, and it is looking for you.

CP, I know all too well that there are good and bad people everywhere. The problem is, cost of living is outrageous in CA, so you have to make quite a bit of money before you can afford to live somewhere decent.

It isn't so much the people I prefer in Vermont. Most of the people I knew there were from my MFA program, and weren't even from Vermont. I really love the PLACE. It's beautiful there. I'm pretty outdoorsy and I love hiking and camping. I also love mountains and trees and snow. So, where do I wind up living? In the middle of a desert with no naturally occurring trees and an average daily summer temperature of over 100 degrees. And, yes, I know all about Vermont winters. I had the pleasure of having my nose drippings freeze on my face every time I walked out of a building during my winter residencies, which took place in December and January. I LOVED the winters there. I love snow and rain. Not a lot of either where I live right now. People tell me I'll get tired of it eventually. All I know is, I'm plenty tired of the heat and smog.

The family that I talked about, who bought a dirt-cheap house, sold up in CA and moved to the PNW (far from a coastal area). From their description it is extremely beautiful and there is plenty of opportunity for outdoor life. The winters are severe, too!

Did I read that your H does call-centre work? Does he have to be located in a particular place to do that?

SC: There are some call centers that allow you to work from home. His isn't one of them, but I know he would love something like that.

In our area, I've been told that it will take a minimum of 10 years for the housing market to improve enough for us to break even. So basically, no matter what, we'll lose money when we leave, because I'm just NOT willing to stay here that long. We do have a real estate agent who is willing to work with us on a short sale, but I'm not sure how that will be affected by the payments we have already missed. The only hope we have of selling the house is finding an investor who is interested in picking up rental properties. No one in our area is buying homes here to actually live in them. The people who are willing to live here can't get loans, and the people who can get the loans to buy property certainly wouldn't want to live here.

Any chance of renting yours out while you pay rent in a much cheaper area?

SC: We've thought about it, but the house needs thousands of dollars in repairs before we'd be able to rent it, and we don't have the money.

Hi again Writer,

Wow, I really didn't realize the facts about your neighborhood. To be honest, my W would be pressuring me to move as well if we were you. This is going to take the two of you as a team tho, and including doing some real research into the areas you would desire to move to. Yea, I know, that old movie 'Christmas in Vermont' or 'Christmas in CN' which is what I think the title really is, that is nice with icicles on your nose and all that. No matter where you would live tho Writer, you would still have your current risks and challenges follow you. I say this due to my own situation. I had Char here today because this week I only work three days. She is in a nursing home due to lots of things, but mainly she had to be out of out condo last August due to a second fire she caused by smoking, and also necessary nursing help due to her manic-depression and sometimes refusing to take her medication. The real fact Writer is that even tho we have been married for 41 yrs. and do love each other (her brief affair IN the nursing home last fall and winter discounted) I am starting to come to grips with the realitly that we will never live together again and that we will most likely die separately. I do not say this to you as a sad, wake up, shocking type revelation, but just as reality that I have come to accept.

In your situation Writer, if you and your H work together hard, and I mean hard, to overcome your financial difficulties and intimacy difficulties you will have a better life for both of you and your family than you now think possible. One of the realitiies of life and this economy is how attractive your H has become in continuing his education in terms of courses or training that twould make him more attractive for promotions and future economic growth. Fortunately or unfortunately from the guys' standpoint this IS his responsibility. I earned my MBA back in early 70's, which helped us. It was hard for her as for me, but Char had faith in me for what I was trying to do, and I tried to reward her with everything I could - little rewards such as her favorite dinners and such when I got an A or B. She did recognize that I was doing it for us. Then, I supported her and us in her getting her Master's in education and she did really well. The point is Writer, this is the real competition you are facing today, and many many are doing this. You two need to gird yourselves before a move to attempt to make yourselves financially 'bullet proof'.

Dreams are one thing Writer, but the financial aptitude to achieve and live those dreams are anotehr thing. I just do not want to see you guys wake up another five years from now and then only to realize that you have made terrible financial and career decisions, as well as marital decisions. And, along that line, you need to get all thoughts and hopes of any finacial support and possible contact with the OM out of your mind once and for all. Your H is and should be your Guy; your OM lover should no longer be anything but an afterthought! Period.

I wish you the very best.

Tom

Par for the course it seems

I love the snow too, feel right at home outside in 40 degree weather with a sweater and a cap. I live in Baltimore now, and the heat stinks. I came here to escape my wifes alhohol sister, to get her closer to her church and make it mine, and to get work on the 95 corridor. It was to be a new start.

The place has a lot of good qualitys but being poor pretty much meant missing some of the things here, Ocean City, crabs feasts, and enjoying the history. The drugs are rampant, but the idiots who fall into them make the market. Its sad but its been around since slave masters gave cocaine to the workers to keep them working longer. Its just something you have to deal with wherever. They are afraid if Crystal Meth ever gets ahold, they will never get it out. There is even talk to legalize coke, but its not being taken seriuosly

I know a few crack addicts in VT. and pot is big business there too.

You should go for a rural setting if its the outdoors you want. Luri talked about her home state, but there are lots of places you can go that are cheaper to live in. Its the work thats the problem. Kentucky is cheap, but what kind of work is there?

I would move to upper NY state if it wasn't for my daughter and grand-daughter, my other boys too. Its more my speed and culture, and the weather would be nice. Can't deal with heat, and I miss the mountains.

Vermont, or anywhere in New England really, is a dream for me, but honestly, it isn't the area we're focusing on right now. It isn't particularly cheap to live there, and other than Boston perhaps, it isn't too easy to find jobs either. I love Boston, but it's expensive too.

We're open to going anywhere, but Texas seems the most likely place for us to land. The job market is pretty good there, especially for teachers, at least compared to other places, and the cost of living is relatively low. I know, not a lot of woods and mountains in Texas, but I guess we could always vacation in Colorado. The hill country around Austin is nice, and it's a city that seems to have a lot to offer.

Tom, my H is looking to go back to school for his MBA. He's trying to find a program that he can do online. But it's pretty pricey, and we already have so much debt. The thought of taking on more is pretty daunting, but I know it would give him a lot more opportunities as far as jobs are concerned. He just needs to find an online program that he's comfortable with.

writer1, I check in every so often to check on your story. I hope the best for you and your family.

I'm in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, and Texas other than the oppressive heat in the summer is a pretty good place to be. My STBX just got his teaching certificate and is having trouble finding work, but he has the problem that he's a History teacher and doesn't coach. Just be sure to check out the job market for the kind of teaching you do... if you're math or science, you can get a job pretty much anywhere... other subjects aren't as easy to find work.

Best of luck, and if you end up in my area, feel free to drop me a line if you like and I can hook you up with a babysitter.

Thanks AC. I would like to teach English. It's what my degree is in, and I really don't know anything else. I love science, but I would have to get a second bachelor degree to teach that. Unfortunately, I'm a mathematical moron.

We were in Texas in the summer. I didn't think the heat was so bad, but few places, other than Vegas and Phoenix, get as hot as where I currently live. Our weather is similar to Palm Springs, only without the nice electricity allotment that allows them to run their AC 24/7 in the summer and not pay an arm and a leg. We get the temps of the desert, but the energy rates of the coast, so our AC bill is outrageous, even when I keep my thermostat at 80. Average summer electricity bill is around $300, and that's for a 1400 sq. ft. house.

Well, this week we're scheduled to hit over 110. Mostly this year has been mild, but the heat is worst in August & September. My house is 1750sqft, and my AC bill runs up around $250 in the summer, but I need it fairly cool to sleep so while we let it get up around 78 during the day, I put the thermostat on about 72-74 at night, so I'm sure I pay more for it.

I have no idea what the demand is for English teachers, I know some school districts are hurting for various disciplines, especially at the elementary level. Lots of places are online, and apparently the ISD's are grouped into districts with many of the HR postings & application process handled by the district website. Like I said, STBX is having more issues than many looking because apparently in TX, history teachers are also coaches as a rule. (Football is a religion here, be prepared for that...)

Again, I wish the best for you, and agree that you need to be looking to get out of CA for so many reasons. I wish I could be of more help...

Writer, how is your DS18 doing?