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#2411770 07/30/10 01:05 PM
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Well, I'm back where I started a year or so ago. I had filed last year because H refused to work on the marriage or stop his abusive behaviour. He then went to counseling, we tried to put things back together and I ended up withdrawing the paperwork in February. Since then, he's backslid on pretty much everything - the only change that's stuck is that he doesn't do overt AO's anymore. But he's still passive-aggressive and treating my DD and me badly, especially when his DD (who has been bullying and abusing my DD for 6+ years) is around.

So after one last attempt to get things turned around, to zero affect and H refusing to even believe we had a serious issue, much less actually changing anything, I have filed again and I won't withdraw the paperwork this time. I forced SD out of the house, and H is desperately trying to find a job so he can move out too.

I'm incredibly sad about all of this, because I can clearly see what it would take to put our M back together, but H refuses to even see it, much less do it. I can't keep on with this, it was tearing my heath apart and damaging my DD.

I almost didn't come back to the MB board because it seems hypocritical when I'm divorcing, but I really believe that the MB concepts are good ones and if I ever get in another serious relationship, I am going to insist that it be MB-based.

So, here I am. smile


"When people show you who they are, believe them." -- Maya Angelou
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I'm sorry AC. You can definitely say you did everything you can and then some. Enduring abuse (and exposing your daughter to it) is not what love is about, but you already know that. Good job to remove yourself from that and I hope the healing can begin for you right away; certainly with help here from others who have felt the same pressures.

Originally Posted by TheAntiChick
I almost didn't come back to the MB board because it seems hypocritical when I'm divorcing, but I really believe that the MB concepts are good ones and if I ever get in another serious relationship, I am going to insist that it be MB-based


I always think it's interesting that the divorce boards are towards the top of the list of forums. And the affair boards are so heavily populated. It's a marriage website for heaven's sake! crazy

Anyway, I agree with you about the concepts. In fact I believe that even if I don't get into another serious relationship, the concepts are completely worth while. My relationship with my kids has improved 100% by eliminating LB's like AO's (I know I used to frighten them at times, so sad) and applying AN concepts as much as possible in the parent/child relationship. Hoping the kids will pick this stuff up and avoid some of the mistakes I made when the are older and choosing a mate.

Some people are MB material, and some are not (like your H, evidently). The important thing is you've chosen to rise above and break out of the pattern - that's commendable.

You have a bit of a journey ahead of you so keep your chin up - there's nothing hypocritical about being on this board; none of us envisioned going down this road on the day we said "I do."

~optimism


Me: 43 y.o. BFWH, D-day 11/11/09 (NC since 9/01)
Divorce from WW final 9/16/10.
Current Status: MB-based Marriage to Nature Girl 12/8/12 (first date on 12/11/10)
Mine: S(16), D(11)
NatureGirls: S(23), D(21)
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Thanks, optimism!

The weirdest part is that now that I've made the decision, filed, and he's working on getting out of the house - we're acting like friends again. He's kind and considerate and if I hadn't been down this road before, I'd probably start trying to put it back together. smirk


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Originally Posted by TheAntiChick
Thanks, optimism!

The weirdest part is that now that I've made the decision, filed, and he's working on getting out of the house - we're acting like friends again. He's kind and considerate and if I hadn't been down this road before, I'd probably start trying to put it back together. smirk

Yeah, we had that phenomenon around here too. I think it's just the release of the pressure which he was obviously feeling too - the fear of the unknown and not being sure what's going to happen next. Personally, I resent that my stbxww was so relieved by taking the step to D-land. I mean she was just about ecstatic. Ecstatic about pushing the red button on her family...nice.

Anyway, I've rolled that one around as well and keep coming back to the idea that just being "friends" or "friendly" is no indication that it's time to try to put anything back together. It would take something more like her groveling on hands and knees through molten glass followed by a year of truly repentant daily demonstration of deep character change and a full commitment to MB principles, oh and a signed prenup for me to consider trying to put anything back together.

I'm sure you've had people tell you to play nicey-nice until the papers are signed also. He's certainly heard the same thing. That could be part of it.

smile

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Well, we actually talked a bit last night. He acknowledged that right now, it's going to be best for us to finalize the divorce and he move out. We have these huge issues surrounding our respective DD's, he's been off and on emotionally and verbally abusive to my DD and myself. He's been mooching off of me for our entire 9 year relationship, I've been completely supporting the entire family and I resent it.

He wants to stay friends and maybe date after the divorce, and see where things go. I'm amenable to that, but at some point if he wants to know what it will take to "win me back" my list would probably read a bit like yours - I need to see him in therapy, I need to see him disengage from the enmeshment with his DD, and I need to see him financially supporting himself and contributing appropriately to a relationship.


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He wants to stay friends and maybe date after the divorce, and see where things go. I'm amenable to that,

Really? I've been advised to "detach." I'm not entirely sure what that entails and need to do some reading on it. But I think I know and I think I've been doing it (limiting my interactions to stbexww considerably). And I can feel myself healing more and more as I do. I feel myself becoming whole again and I also feel that everytime I backslide on that (and actually have a conversation with stbx) those wounds tend to open up again. Before I ever decide to date stbxww or really anyone for that matter I hope to be really secure in who I am. Right now I'm very insecure in who I am because who I am has been severely damaged by the thoughtless inconsiderate and selfish behavior of my stbxw - behavior that not only HURT me but HARMED me. It was harmful because it went against natural laws of trust and care that married people are supposed to have for each other.

When I start dating, she goes on the bottom of the list. And it's a long list. In fact I think I'd date every available woman in the free world at least once before I went out on a date with stbxw. See, I already know what she has to offer. And I already know I deserve better. And I'm not even finished yet.

"....emotionally and verbally abusive to my DD and myself." huh?
Chick, I hope you find yourself in a place real soon where you consider yourself worthy of better. Somewhere here I read that someone who is secure in themselves attracts a whole different class of person. So you know what your first step is.

I'd be willing to bet he'll never even ask for your list. Let alone ever sincerely work on even the first item, whatever that might be.

Detach.

opt



Me: 43 y.o. BFWH, D-day 11/11/09 (NC since 9/01)
Divorce from WW final 9/16/10.
Current Status: MB-based Marriage to Nature Girl 12/8/12 (first date on 12/11/10)
Mine: S(16), D(11)
NatureGirls: S(23), D(21)
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I'm also working on detachment, but in the sense that I'm not responsible for him, and not responsible to fix him. It doesn't mean I have to dislike him.

I don't know that this can go anywhere, but there was a time when he was my best friend, and I miss my friend.

The healthy way for me to interact is to tell him what I need, clearly, and what I expect. Then to learn to let go of the response, as LA always says. If he chooses to step up and make the changes needed, we had a lot of really good things going. It ended up being a situation where he kept going up against a deal breaker for me, and I couldn't keep going on that way.

The bad part is that he went to counseling last year and really changed a lot of the behaviours that were causing us problems. He gets into a cognitive dissonance or something when it comes to his relationship with his DD, and that dysfunction then starts poisoning everything in the home. His DD will likely not change, at least not until she ends up in a psych lock-down and gets intensive therapy... I'm not expecting change from her. What essentially has to happen if he wants me to consider a relationship with him again, is that he has to detach from his DD in a healthy way so that he doesn't then bleed that dysfunction into the rest of the family. If he can actually learn to do that, and at the same time establish himself financially and materially, then we actually have quite a bit that can be worked with, and the MB principles would make a world of difference. But while he's seeing the world as everyone against his DD, and he can't figure out how to protect her without hurting the other people around him, this can't ever work.

It doesn't compromise my self worth or my integrity to tell him what changes I need to see in order to try to have a relationship with him again, and then wait to see if he does it. I finally stood up and put a stop to the behaviours that were harmful to myself and my DD, and as long as I refuse to accept those again, I'm showing that I *do* believe I deserve better.

I'm not going to sit in a convent in the meantime, either. wink


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TAC, what do you think about a Plan B letter, making a list of what you'd need to see now, so that in a weak moment you'll have it totally obvious in black and white as to whether you are set up for success or doomed to failure?

I think a lot of us in this "whatever is okay between two folks is fine" world forget that no, doing things that we're unenthusiastic with us doesn't make the other person want to step up and be an equal partner, it just shows them that all it takes are a few well-timed AOs and we are willing to pull all the weight. Even when it destroys the relationship in the process.

While the lawyers work on the paperwork, my H and I are in the same house, too, and folks tell us, "Wow, you get along so great." But of course, it's more like friends, I'm not looking to get my intimate needs met with him, not trying to build a love that would last a lifetime anymore.


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NED, you make good points. Yes, I need to outline for him exactly what it would take to "win me back" in black and white. I'm not sure it would be a Plan B letter since I'm not going dark, but a letter is certainly in order.

I've taken the steps to ensure a peaceful and safe home for my DD and myself. I will NOT go back to the chaos we had before. It may be that he and I end up friends again (or not) and it's never going to build back into a romantic relationship. I don't have any expectations about it, I'm going to keep practicing O&H and maintaining my boundaries in a healthy way. What happens, will happen.


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Originally Posted by TheAntiChick
I'm also working on detachment, but in the sense that I'm not responsible for him, and not responsible to fix him. It doesn't mean I have to dislike him.

Thanks AC. I'm just learning about all this.

You're outlook seems pretty sound. To me it sounds like you're actually putting the protections in place to keep yourself safe. I hope I'm right.

I'll keep working on the detachment thing. I can't help but dislike her though. But she was part of my life for over 20 years. Heck I've spent more time with her than I have with my own mother or sister or father. So, it's hard to just turn my back on her, or see her hurt by my need to separate and detach. On the other hand, she treated me with such unkindness and disrespect and hurtful behavior, I must turn my back to protect myself; just as I would with a family member if they were acting so uncaring.

It's complicated, but it's not...

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It *is* complicated. I had to work up a pretty nasty head of angry steam to get myself to the confrontation point. At that point I wanted nothing to do with STBX *ever* again, I just wanted him out of my home, out of my life.

Once I got past the confrontation, was able to get the home more calm by forcing SD out, the anger just kinda dissipated. I started going through the grief of everything I'm losing. STBX and I have a lot in common and lots of plans and dreams for the future. We really could be great together if he could change his interaction with SD, and actually follow through with his promise of protection for me and DD.

We each have to do whatever it takes to protect ourselves and our kids. What I don't think we *have* to hang onto is the anger and bitterness. It may hang around for a long time on its own, because of the pain someone has caused, and they create the loss of love for them by their behaviour.


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Hi Antichick,

I left MB--but I still so sometimes read the MB 101 board. So when I saw your post over there, I searched you out.

I am so so sorry to hear that you are getting a divorce.

If you don't mind my asking, why is it that you are not doing a plan B? He would still have to leave; and you could provide a measurable list of expectations for him should he want to get the marriage back together...

This list could include a certain amount of counseling for him AND for his daughter... Even anger management classes for both of them... HIm finding a job and contributing to the family... Etc.

I guess I'm just surprised that you are jumping right to divorce. Because lots of time, the risk of losing your spouse permanently is enough to motivate real change--but that risk has to be perceived as REAL and has the separation has to be long enough for real change to take place.

Just a thought.

Also, have you ever actually talked with the Harley's? I hear they are pretty good.

I can understand wanting the whole thing over with, decisively. It jut seems like 9 years deserves giving him a real chance to change. Him living there while "trying" was never a good situation. Him being out of the house, with a list of expectations and measurable outcomes seems more likely to succeed.


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Telly, thanks for checking in on me. smile

Basically, a Plan B has never been an option because there's no provision for a legal separation in our state. STBX does not have a job, and hasn't for years, so he's unable to support himself. He will dig himself deeper and deeper into debt, which will drag me down even further financially than I have been over the last 9 years. To protect my finances, I have to divorce him if I'm forcing him out of the house. I'm hoping that he's able to get a job soon.

We have not actually talked to the Harleys, because the one issue we have never been able to resolve is one that pits his daughter's well being (in his eyes) against my daughter's well being (in my eyes). There truly is no win-win scenario, and no compromise to be had, because both of us refuse to compromise what we believe to be the well being of our children. STBX refuses to see how sick his DD is, and I at this point refuse to be told one more time that the emotional and verbal abuse isn't really, and subject my child to one moment more of it.

I don't have any real expectation of him being able to work through any of these issues to my satisfaction. If he surprises me, I'm open to reconciliation. But my primary concern at this point has to be my health and well being and that of my DD.


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Originally Posted by TheAntiChick
Thanks, optimism!

The weirdest part is that now that I've made the decision, filed, and he's working on getting out of the house - we're acting like friends again. He's kind and considerate and if I hadn't been down this road before, I'd probably start trying to put it back together. smirk

AC - The decision to divorce was made in my home 2 days ago. My husband and I have been kinder to each other in these 2 days than at any time in our marriage. I am gathering that that phenomenon is just normal. We are both frightened and vulnerable, both feel guilt and remorse for past wrongs, and both know we will still need to lean on each other at least for now, no matter whose "decision" the divorce really was. These 2 days are not the reality of our marriage, which was rarely filled with overbending kindness, but rather just the reality of the last 2 days. It is important to remember the difference.


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