Stay vigilant. Her behavior is still very suspicious. She sounds fogged out and looking for an out. Be wary of the "I went to counseling and tried, it just isn't going to work" ploy.

I would put a voice recorder in her car. That will catch her calling OM if she is doing so. It's cheap and you'll be able to hear the truth. Forgive me if you've already tried this, but you need to get to the bottom of it.

Odds are high she's simply underground more.

For your trip, be yourself. Act as if all is good. But don't be clingy, needy, or whiny. Think James Bond. Be cool.

Don't ask about how she's doing. Don't ask if she loves you. Treat it as if you were going on a trip with a woman you just met and are on a date with.

Well we got back from the beach, thought I'd write some--sorry for not updating, and I mean no offense, but this site is kind of a reminder of bad things, you know? Sometimes it's easier to just stick your head in the sand. But I cannot do that.

The trip was good, nice house on the beach with a pool--the kids had an absolute blast and are ready to go back.

My wife was actually pleasant the entire time, kind of like how good friends are with the exception of that BIG non-SF elephant that keeps trampling around the room.

Taking the previous poster's advice, I was a perfect gentleman and made a point to "act" like nothing was wrong as I didn't want to put a damper on things and, more importantly, not let our kids know that something was amiss. They're 2 and 5, so they're generally happy in their childhood cocoon when they aren't fighting with each other.

W had a headache one evening and went to lay down, so I sat with her with a hot cloth on her forehead for about an hour or so. I think she appreciated it but, then, she didn't really act like anything was wrong to begin with so who the h knows.

One evening when were sitting on the deck (it was covered), I had a lewd thought (to myself) about the privacy that it afforded and accidentally laughed to myself. She asked what was so funny, I dismissed it but she pressed the issue so I told her what I was thinking. Something along the lines of "under better circumstances, this sure would be a nice place to...". It, of course, killed the mood, but she did give me a hug and say she just wasn't there yet.

Oops.

So that's been all the marriage discussion that we've had. We go to counseling tomorrow so I hope to get some talk-time then.

Her (our) friends have taken her out for supper a few times since then, and they tell me that they don't think she's having an affair, but are genuinely concerned. It's nice to know who you can count on, I guess.

Me, I'm lonely and sad. Sure, the kids and friends help but there's that something missing. Sure I get a "I love you" and kiss and hug goodnight, but I am so damned mad that I almost resent it.

Seriously, how do you not do a LB and try to meet someone's EN when it's a one-way street? She does do more around the house, very occassionaly gives me a hug in the day, smiles when I come in the room, etc. so I don't know if that is an effort on her part or not...I'm scared to ask. But it's all empty gestures because those things aren't really important EN's to me. Hey, I'm a guy, you know?

But I don't bring it up and let her initiate any physical contact. I've withdrawn, I guess, but don't want to. You know? It just takes so much strength to be nice to her and I don't know why. Yes I do-- my #1 EN isn't being met and I honestly sometimes cannot bear to be around her.

So that's it. No new hints at an A, either she's gone further underground as someone else said or I called her on it during a very early stage and she realized what she was doing. I don't know, but don't want to be a fool or be naive either.

We did go out to lunch last week, she liked the idea, but I felt like I carried the conversation. It's kind of hard when there's a cloud hanging over us.

Thanks for reading.

Northwood, I am intigued by your thread.

Maybe my own experience can help you sort this out.

After the birth of my second son (now 6), my WW had no interest at all in SF. On the (very) few occasions it actually happened, there was no reciprocation at all. You could imagine how it felt trying to make love to a corpse, so after repeating this pattern enough times over the course of a couple years I just quit trying. She always claimed that she had no libido and the stress of raising a family left her too tired. Not knowing anything about MB's or meeting needs, I thought the best thing to do was not to pressure her.

Fast forward to a year ago, she starts having an affair. I found out in January and was floored. Since D-Day and more instances of broken NC and even more OM, I see how wrong I really was. Facebook messages and text messages I've read state how she's "always horny" and "can't get enough".

Anyway, the lack of SF is definitely a red flag. Many on here will tell you that she is "saving herself" for the other man. Even before I found out about my WW's affair, I knew something was wrong when she wouldn't even sustain a kiss on the lips.

To make a long story short, SF is an important need for BOTH of you. You may be approaching it wrong, the chapters in HNHN's on affection and SF are nothing short of brilliant. Please re-read them.

The fact that SF has been entirely stopped is a big red flag, continuing affair or not.

That just reminded me to order the book (just did), thanks!

The affair of 2001 (or was it 2002?) went pretty much the same way as your story, without the kids though. When I learned a month ago that she had deliberately stopped being affectionate (not necessarily sex) because she "didn't feel a connection", a big bell went off in my head and an affair was my very first thought.

I went for 19 years like his. After the speech, (you know the one...I am 40 and now it is my time) I found out the XW actually liked SF. It just wasn't with me.

Funny thing though, months later she came back crying and saying things like 'What went wrong with us?... sob, sob, sob. I said, "Well you started screwing our son's Travel Baseball coach". Then I hung up.

It took me 19 years to 'Man up'. And I found this site and another AFTER I went throught all of this crap!. You may get some benefite from this site too. don't let the name through you.

**edit**

I got sex about 8 times per year. Well, that is my best guess anyways. I put her up on a pedestal. Sounds like you have the same problem!

It took me a long time to figure out that I was the problem...

One more thing...

I have been remarried to a great girl for years. She has NEVER rejected me and loves to be with me!

At the time, my ego was shot! I am sure your may be a little bruised too.

It sounds like to me, you need to work on yourself. Maybe a little weigh lifting, hang with the guys, etc...

One thing you get when you visit here is gratitude seeing what other people are dealing with. No matter how grave the situation you can always find some people struggling with worse.

Like a garden or lifting, or any other physical or psychological fitness, relationship fitness is hard to get into but once it's going, it takes less and less effort and you reap more and more rewards. There are always struggles and hardship but I'd rather be struggling with my own problems than have someone else's.

Having less emotional affection, less SF, struggle harder with conversation (EN of W), yes these are difficult and more difficult than many other physical and physical (and spiritual) pursuits, but yet we are still afloat and hence the children are for the moment growing in a nurturing environment.

If my W resumed an EA, I would somehow find the strength to surge ahead with Plan A (even more so than now) but glad or now there is no EA.

... that I'm aware of.....

-L2L

Is there room in this conversation for a gal? I was reading this thread and it struck a cord, my H told me more than 10 years ago that he was totally impotent and I believed him cause I know that its a side effect from his diabetes and medications; so I resolved to repress my feelings in the interest of not making him feel less of a man. Hmmm, well hows this for gratitude, I found out almost 4 months ago that he was in a 5 year relationship with a FRIEND of ours,(he confessed to 2 more) and when I asked him about the impotence he tells me that he is not Always impotent and the(he and OW) worked around it. WTH????
I am plotting his murder at least 20 hours out of every day!

Thanks for the input BobJan, I'll take a look at that site. As for the pedestal, I think it fell over a few days ago.

Here's a random story from tonight...

Our son (age 5) gets his bath at 7, in bed around 7:30 where I read him a story. So he's getting out of the tub and my W is drying him off. He starts complaining that he wants to stay up late and doesn't want to go to bed.

We both say the same thing: "Sorry, bud, but it's bedtime." We both get completely different reactions.

To me: Unnnh! then resignation as he brushes his teeth.
To W: I don't love you! Get out of here! So she leaves.

I tell him that wasn't nice and he needs to say he's sorry to mommy. So he gets in bed, W comes in and, instead of saying he's sorry he tells her the same thing and to leave his room. So she does, and as I read his stories about ten minutes pass.

It's goodnight time, kiss and hug, and he asks where W is. She comes in, tells him that wasn't nice what he said and to give her a hug and kiss. The irony was just sickening.

I wanted to get a bullhorn, turn the volume all the way up, stick it to her ear and scream "HOW BOUT DEM APPLES, BABY! Now you know how it freaking feels for someone to say I don't love you and tell you to leave the room!"

But I don't have a bullhorn, so I just smiled to myself and that was it.

I realized, though, that even little kids have love banks. His account with me is overflowing, he's my buddy and we do a lot together. His account with his mom is obviously lower, though I do the right thing and discourage him from doing or saying mean things to her.

I wonder if W saw the parallel? Probably not, but thought I'd type it up anyways.

You ain't kidding...sometimes I feel kind of bad for saying that I've got problems. But getting feedback from others is great, and the writing actually helps a little.

Wow, five years? I don't blame you for feeling so angry with that kind of betrayal from your spouse AND "friend". So how's it going with you guys, did he break it off with OW (or plural?)

wel; the 5 year relationship is the one thats causing the most problem right now, one of the other relationship was a ONS and the other lasted all of a week.
It is not going well at all and more and more I am starting to accept that I just don't do it for him. I an walk around(and do quite a bit) but naked and-nothing, zilch, so I guess he is only impotent for me. He was supposed to call SH and has not, says he wants to do the on line program but I am skeptical about his level of commitment.
Life is very very dark for me right now.
Most people think that I am quite pleasing to the eye, in looks and my body, but I guess I don't have what OW has.

NW,

I don't love you! Get out of here! So she leaves.

I hope I'm completely wrong to think this but did your wife have your son around OM?

I know my wife never really forgot seeing her dad with some woman when she was very small. While very young children are not sophisticated in understanding affairs, they do understand when something is not right.

God Bless
Gamma

you know what? I have yet to see someone on this forum reference an affair that went on for 5 years, am I the only one? is there hope after 5 years-very doubtful from where I am sitting.

Well, they say there's always a light at the end of the tunnel, but I usually want to kick people that say that! But I guess a lot of people, myself included, have been or are there and have gotten the T-shirt.

Can you do a joint (speaker-phone) call with Harley to force him to the table? I'm not sure what the protocol is, so beg your pardon if that isn't how it works. I'm kind of new at this, unfortunately.

To hell with the OW, just try to smile and think "I'm so much better than her and by letting her get to me she wins"...hard to do, I know. Hang in there.

No, I think he would have mentioned it as he talks non-stop all day about anything and everything that comes to his mind. I know one day, several months ago, she did take him to the pediatrician and stopped by work to get some things on the way home. So he did meet the suspect-OM as DS commented on the golf clubs in his office. But, other than that, no, I don't believe so.

I guarantee you that I would hit the roof if I suspected otherwise. There's no room in my kids' lives for that kind of garbage, and I would probably be at the courthouse the next day seeking sole custody.

NW Thank God for MB, when I get down I come here and commiserate, its helpful to know we are not alone isn't it?

Yeah, just talking about it helps--venting I suppose.