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#2323637 02/14/10 05:13 PM
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I wish I had found you months ago. I appreciate the quality of the meathod prescribed here and the soundness of the advice given on the forums. Thank you!

We are not married and I have just read about the renting-vs-owning. Therefore, if you feel I am in the wrong place, I understand. I would like to add that we did make a verbal committment to be monogomous with each other, and to be committed to making our relationship work as through we were married. We have lived together only a year.

My D day was in Nov while he was out of town. He denied everything, still does, but told me he would brake off all contact with OW. I am in the detective stage and have some proof of his lying and am gathering more proof.

I have found that he is a chronic cheater. His first wife while in his 20s. He visited "massage parlours" during his 3rd marriage. He had an A with this same OW during his previous relationship. In fact, he cheated on her while they were together. There's more. He is in his mid 50s.

OW lives out of state. He wants us to relocate to her area. He is from there originally.

When I confront next time I will play by the rule as outlined in this site. (I'm so thankfull to have a stategy). If he refuses to confess, bye bye. I think he will say he wants to work it out. Then we will do the steps, no contact letter, plan A, yadda yadda.

In your experienced opinions, and given these conditions, do you think it is worth the effort? Other than lying about contacting this OW (I consider forwarded emails contact, I'll access his online cell phone statements Tuesday), he is nearly perfect!

Also, how much of my sources do I reveal during the confrontation. He will want something to validate my accusation. I did not reveal everything I knew last time, but what I did, he carefully covers up now.

Yeah, it's classic!

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iamwhole, marriage is very different from dating. The latter are tentative and the former are life-long committments. Dating is a temporary arrangement that is meant to be a job interview for marriage. When the candidate lies and cheats in the job interview, that should be a knock out factor.

For some reason, we women mistakenly believe we can change men after we marry them. We CANNOT.

This man is clearly not marriage material. He might have been fun as a short term boyfriend, but it would be a huge mistake to enter any kind of committment with him. You would be damning yourself to a life of hell if you did.

Run for your life while the getting is good.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Thank you for your quick response. Be thinking of me Tuesday evening during the confrontation.

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Nevertheless, chronic cheaters are NOT worth it, especially since you haven't even invested in a marriage yet. Why pay full price for a brand new car when it's already been in several wrecks?

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Well, I just wanted to thank you once again for all the good stuff you have around here.

Thanks to your expert instruction on covert operations, I was able to track HIM trying to re-establish contact with OW again. It was all so perfect, actually. There were two calls on his bill that he initiated, each a month apart.

To back up a bit. He was diagnosed with colon cancer in April and had a successful surgery to remove it without any other treatment. Another former girlfriend called and he explained it was because she found out about his illness and was just concerned. I asked how we should handle the OW trying to contact him when she finds out. Oh, he already called her. He doesn't know that I know that he actually called her twice and there was a text.

We make an agreement. She will be expecting a follow up. He promises no more calls ever (yeah right, we have all heard that one before). Please don't beat me up over this, but I offer for him to make that one follow up call as long as it is in my presence. That was the courtesy I gave him when I had to make arrangements for returning discovered title docs belonging to an ex.

Okay, two calls on his statements.

He went over on his minutes this month and was squawking to the high heavens. I was in the room while he was checking his call history. I pretended not to notice his call to her on the online statement. I checked our land line and he forgot to delete an addition call. Woopsy!

Today he comes home from work and tells me he has to call OW adult son, he has to do a favor. I can't believe the timing. I think God loves me!

He thinks I am upset over him calling the OW son. Well, yeah, but I do let him know I saw his statement when he was online. Enter lame a$$ excuse! "She tried to FaceBook friend me and I called her to tell her we can't have contact". I ask about the call on the land line caller ID. Can you believe it! Same lame a$$ excuse! So, I ask, she Face Book friends requests you two weeks in a row and you have to call her tell her twice not to do that? Hmm. I don't think so!

He THINKS he is moving out because of two little phone calls. (I never revealed knowing about the third because he doesn't know I can access his statements and he only admits to what he is confronted with). I can't get him to acknowledge or apologize for breaking an agreement of this magnitude. Why am I so surprised? He never admited to the affair to begin with.

OMG he just called me! I only answered beacause I thought it was his mom. Damn caller ID and her having five phone numbers. He is at her house and she is out of town. I have all her phone number programmed in my phone to say "Mom".

ALRIGHTY NOW! I'm going to stop this rambling. I'm NOT a rambler! I'm heartbroken and I'm scared and I know he is wanting to come back (really? already? it's hasn't even been an hour!)and I am asking for some strength.

I again thank you. If it wasn't for you, I would not have gotten this far and maybe married the blankety blank!!!





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MelodyLane said: "For some reason, we women mistakenly believe we can change men after we marry them. We CANNOT."

According to the Bible, the unbelieving man (chronic cheating, lying, louse) is sanctified by the believing woman (and vice versa). So technically, if you are Christian, and you are in God's good grace of course, you CAN change your husband. Not directly, because only God can do that, but through worship of the one who made your husband.

Furthermore, if you are Christian, you must also believe your God when he says NO MAN is beyond redemption. ANYONE can be saved. ANYONE. Even the unholiest of vermin locked in our prison system for heinous crimes. Even more startling is the fact that your sins, things you do that you probably don't even know are sinful, are every bit as sinful as your husbands transgressions.. you just don't know it.. because you don't know the Word and hence you don't know what God considers sinful.

It all sounds rather grim doesn't it? But fear not. For if you and your husband get your butts to church, seek Christian counseling, get upright with God, get married, get Christian accountability partners you can share fellowship with, and truly stay the course and grow in your faith together, both you AND your husband, no matter what your past transgressions, will be saved. Period.

So in sum, is a chronic cheater worth it? Well, with God or without God? Without God? Nope [and incidentally without God you aren't worth it either no matter how loyal you are in relationships]. With God? Absolutely, for anything is possible with God. He doesn't hit foul balls. Only homeruns

God bless and good luck

Last edited by MountainClimber; 08/19/10 08:40 PM.
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No, a chronic cheater is not worth it, there are 3 billion men on the planet, chose again.

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Amen, mountainclimber; there is nothing that God cannot do.
Iamwhole, praying for you .


Me, BS Him, Alcoholic, FWH H did 180 in '01 Recovered, blessed marriage now Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things unseen. Hebrews 11:1
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Thanks guys! I'm feeling a little weak and this helps.

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I can't sleep!

Why oh why do I have doubts and think that maybe just maybe I made a mistake!?!


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Yet she is not married to him and scripture is clear we are not to be yoked to an unbeliever. I believe that would extend to those claiming to be believers but living otherwise.

I agree, God can do anything. I've also lived through a divorce where God sat back and did nothing that was effective in winning a wayward wife back to the marriage.

So given my experience, given how just because God CAN do anything doesn't mean He will, I still stand by my recommendation that since she's not married to this guy, there is no reason to pursue a relationship with him.

There are better guys out there.

Men and Women may be able to provide a Godly influence. God can change anything He wants. But God also provides each of us with free will. Therefore, the person who needs to change has to want it for change to happen. Not because God can't, but because God won't violate free will.

Originally Posted by MountainClimber
MelodyLane said: "For some reason, we women mistakenly believe we can change men after we marry them. We CANNOT."

According to the Bible, the unbelieving man (chronic cheating, lying, louse) is sanctified by the believing woman (and vice versa). So technically, if you are Christian, and you are in God's good grace of course, you CAN change your husband. Not directly, because only God can do that, but through worship of the one who made your husband.

Furthermore, if you are Christian, you must also believe your God when he says NO MAN is beyond redemption. ANYONE can be saved. ANYONE. Even the unholiest of vermin locked in our prison system for heinous crimes. Even more startling is the fact that your sins, things you do that you probably don't even know are sinful, are every bit as sinful as your husbands transgressions.. you just don't know it.. because you don't know the Word and hence you don't know what God considers sinful.

It all sounds rather grim doesn't it? But fear not. For if you and your husband get your butts to church, seek Christian counseling, get upright with God, get married, get Christian accountability partners you can share fellowship with, and truly stay the course and grow in your faith together, both you AND your husband, no matter what your past transgressions, will be saved. Period.

So in sum, is a chronic cheater worth it? Well, with God or without God? Without God? Nope [and incidentally without God you aren't worth it either no matter how loyal you are in relationships]. With God? Absolutely, for anything is possible with God. He doesn't hit foul balls. Only homeruns

God bless and good luck

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Originally Posted by MountainClimber
MelodyLane said: "For some reason, we women mistakenly believe we can change men after we marry them. We CANNOT."

According to the Bible, the unbelieving man (chronic cheating, lying, louse) is sanctified by the believing woman (and vice versa). So technically, if you are Christian, and you are in God's good grace of course, you CAN change your husband. Not directly, because only God can do that, but through worship of the one who made your husband.

According to the Bible we should not be "unequally yoked with unbelievers" and have no fellowship with darkness:

Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 2 Corinthians 6:14-17

No, she cannot change her husband against his will. Not even God changes a person against his will; they must come to him willingly.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
No, a chronic cheater is not worth it, there are 3 billion men on the planet, chose again.

Agree. Lets use some common sense here. A chronic cheater is not marriage material. We are supposed to use some common sense and discretion when choosing a marriage partner.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Agree. Lets use some common sense here. A chronic cheater is not marriage material. We are supposed to use some common sense and discretion when choosing a marriage partner.


Also agreed - If we're going to bring God into the mix, God helps those who help themselves.

This man has not demonstrated any desire to change. He has no desire to 'help himself'. YOU cannot change him or create that desire within him. No amount of praying will cause God to remove his right to make his own choices.

It's time to move on.


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Originally Posted by MountainClimber
For if you and your husband get your butts to church

They're not married. If you want to get biblical about it, I don't see where the original poster states that she is a Christian. If she is, then she's playing a dangerous game because the Word clearly states not to be unequally yoked.

To the original poster: You are not married to this man. Run for the hills and work on yourself and fix your picker. Figure out why you are willing to accept crumbs. Hopefully you don't have any children with this man.


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Correct; not married.
Correct again; non-Christian.

I do understand that MB is built upon Christian principles and my own values are more aligned with this program than others that are more individual oriented. It's makes sense to me intelectually and works methodically. I know couples who have working relationships, and after going through the articles on this site I would periodically have an ah ha moment. What I had seen in the world was articulated in a way that gave me understanding. Also, I expect the majority of people on this forum to be Christians. Therefore, I also expected to be quoted scripture prior to posting.

Knowing where everyone stands here on the marriage status, I wanted to be honest about my situation. This is MARRIAGE builders and I am not married. I took the risk that you may not communicate with me at all.

Oh, but he wants to get married now! He brought it up yesterday when I made him leave. It was rather pathetic, actually!

Oh, no children together.

Run for the hills I am just as fast as my little legs can carry me!

The next step, which I expect him to try to use to his advantage in prolonging this, is getting him to move out all his "stuff" and his pet. I will see him today. We work together. Argg! I will let him know that he needs to have his things out by the 1st, when storage units become available. After that, anything left behind will go on Craigslist.
Thank you Meggy and Vibrissa. A specail thank you to you Melody. Your posts have been helpful even in the other threads.

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Originally Posted by iamwhole
Run for the hills I am just as fast as my little legs can carry me!

Smart woman!! You have raised the price on yourself and your self esteem thanks you. hurray


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by iamwhole
Run for the hills I am just as fast as my little legs can carry me!

The next step, which I expect him to try to use to his advantage in prolonging this, is getting him to move out all his "stuff" and his pet. I will see him today. We work together. Argg! I will let him know that he needs to have his things out by the 1st, when storage units become available. After that, anything left behind will go on Craigslist.


GOOD for you for standing up for yourself.

The nice thing about MB is that, while yes, Dr. H is Christian and there are Christian principles in MB, it isn't OVERTLY Christian. That's because it focuses on what makes a good marriage, and those of faith and those who aren't are EQUALLY capable of having a good marriage.

Just 'gettin your butt to church' doesn't make for a good marriage.

Knowing what makes a good marriage, and actively working with that knowledge makes a good marriage.


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Quote
Just 'gettin your butt to church' doesn't make for a good marriage.


Yeah, just ask Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggart and a few others I can't remember right now.

Sorry I couldn't resist. smile


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OMG!

I just got to work about 30 min ago. I'm just getting settled in. He calls me when I am checking in to ask me to marry him! I am having one of the longest anxiety attacks I have had yet. Of course the answer is no, I just don't understand where this intense fear is coming from.

He is scheduled in a couple hours and I am a scared little rabbit to see him.

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