Dear WS

I am writing to you on the public board because I feel this is the last chance I have to reach out to you remind you of where I am and tell you how I feel, I am hoping that by doing this on your thread and in writing you will not be able to ignore, forget about or simply dicard my feelings. I am putting my heart on the line here as it�s the only thing left for me to do and I hope that you can see that I am genuine and consider this a last resort in a final attempt to have a fair and decent marriage.

So Dear WS I want you to know that I love you and that I am sorry. I am sorry for all the ways I have reacted to this situation, I am sorry I am not calmer, I am sorry im not stronger to get through this on my own without your help. I want you I want our family and most of all I want our marriage, but I don�t want to achieve this on my own I haven�t got anything else to give you a part from my love and support. I am sorry I can t get through this without reassurances or constant demands I just don�t know how else to feel your love a part from push you as hard as I can and watch you take it. It feels like this is the only way you can show me that you love me these days by just simply staying and putting up with me, during the past year you have not shown me any care or love that I understand I know you say you love me sometimes but its got to the stage where its only words and words don�t have much value when your actions are contradicting what you say.

I am heartbroken I am lost and I am in pain but despite all of this I still sit here and worry about you and worry about how your mistake has effected you, I cant take your mistake away all I can do is support you though the recovery, but I cant keep on giving away my soul and not get anything in return, I don�t want much from you a part from the love you promised to have for me when we got married and to back up this love in action.

I am still thinking about what you said yesterday that you have always been this cad capable of hurting me and you reminded me of the incident when you stayed on the bus past your stop just because a woman was making eye contact with you and you wanted to see if it would lead anywhere. Then came home and told me about it, oh how stupid do I feel now for not getting angry at you for being so understanding that you have low self esteem and no matter what I say or do my love for you does not help that one bit and you need a strangers approval but you also had boundries. You reminded me of this incident you reminded me that I am holding on to a man in my imagination that you have never been the sweet man that I married. Im telling you I refuse to believe that, I refuse to think that the man I fell in love with has always been this cold and uncaring I remember the times when you used to hurt just at the thought of being away from me for an evening and the way you used to just look at me from across the room with so much love in your eyes that�s what I remember about you, I remember the guy who used to swear blind that he will never be with another woman when I used to panic about you having a mid life chrisis and the realisation that you have only had one partner all your life would drive you to cheat, the anger and disgust in your face used to be so reassuring now its gone now there is no reassurance there and there is no trust. And im so sad that you cant see that, im so sad that you don�t see there is any further need to reassure me a part from the fact that you are still here.

I want you to be here out of love, the last thing I want is for you to be unhappy and stay for any other reasons like fear or because you don�t see any other choice, I wish you can see that I want what s best for you even if that�s not me. I worry about you I worry about your happiness and you know I put your happiness above mine but its now got to a stage where I cant see that I am making you happy and I don�t know how to make you happy without further sacrificing myself.

You know I don�t think much of myself, you know I don�t feel like I deserve you and you know that I don�t feel that I deserve love or care but right now I also realise that as a human being I do deserve not to be in torturous pain, I don�t deserve to feel hated rejected or like a burden. I rather have nothing than have that.

I am exhausted I am shattered and I am just plain out of energy to fight with you anymore hun, I cant keep fighting for a marriage on my own. I love you enough to have faith that you will wake up and want me and our marriage but I don�t have enough strength to fight for it. I have worked so hard day and night to help you to counsel you and just be there for you but now I need you, I need you to help me.
Please help me, reassure me, care for me I am begging you. I need you and I can t do this on my own.

I have spent all night talking to you about what I need its not much, it�s a little reassurance from time to time that I can let my guard down that I can relax with you again and be happy and carefree that you have the situation under control that you understand, that you care enough about yourself not to put up with the self distructive weaknesses that led to the affair.

I cant carry the shame on my own anymore, I need communication to clarify things because my world is no longer as straight forward as it was a simple cuddle is no longer so simple, it can mean a million things from I love you to im sad to I want SF. I cant tell anymore what s real from what s not I need you to share your thoughts in order to help me understand. I can t tell anymore whats you and whats the alien that has taken over you. I need your help with that I need you to drown my insecurities with simple reassurances like cuddling me and simply stating �im soppy� nothing more.

I want my children to grow up knowing that you are a stand up guy, that yes you can make mistakes like everyone else but you also can redeem yourself and work at clearing the aftermath of your mess. I want them to admire you and respect you, I want to admire and respect you again, I don�t like looking at you and seeing the stranger you are becoming to me. It hurts it really does especially when I know what a loving respectful hard working guy you can be.

Do you remember how you felt during that heavenly period of 6 months a year before the A when you where everything I needed and more, how happy I was, how happy you where? How proud you felt that you were there for your family and you were there for your wife? Do you remember the pure glow of joy I had just because you remembered to get me a birthday present or an anniversary card? We can be back there again but you need to help us get there.

Don�t get bogged down with thinking that we will never admire you again because that s not the case we will admire you so much when you decide to love us, we will love you back twice as much when you decide that you want us and you know that, I have shown you that. Every time you have shown me an act of kindness or care I cant help but want to repay you 10 times over and that�s just because I am grateful to have you in my life I am grateful that you let me love you, I never want to take you for granted.

I don�t know what else to say a part form I do love you and I do want you I just don�t know how to carry on loving you when its costing me so much. Its like investing into something and not getting any returns. I need you to make the simple decision to commit to our marriage and family and start giving something back or accept that you are not and wont and just go and find the happiness that we don�t seem to be able to give you. Don�t tell me you don�t know how because you have the resources and help to find out and as you know you have my full love and support. Don�t tell me your not capable because you are, you have shown me many times that you are capable of feeling caring and understanding. Don�t sell yourself short you can do this if you put your mind to it and im here to remind you of what you can be always and forever.

Do you really want to be here? Have you really decided that the family we have is enough for you? Because I don�t feel that. I still feel like you are here out of duty and I simply refuse to be a burden on you, you deserve to have a better life, its just now up to you to decide if you can achieve this with us or not. I wish that one day our admiration and love will be enough for you that you wont be in a position to seek it in other people and place. Do you think we can ever be enough for you? If you do decide that we are what you want then please act on that decision and commit to us. This problem will not disappear on its own. I wish I could save you the hard work but I cant its just the way it is.

The decision is now with you. Its out of my hands I cant do anymore without your commitment can you meet me half way? Im not asking you to do all the hard work but im asking you to start meeting me half way because I cant walk this journey on my own.

Love you now and always

W xx

If my FWH wrote what you wrote...about doing what you felt like, I would file for divorce today. See, he was able to have his affairs because he reacted to his feelings instead of acting to his beliefs.

You're still there...which puts your marriage at risk, moment to moment. Because your reactions are what you're still choosing instead of switching to Actions.

I found the key was to Act, not React. Which meant, I acted and my feelings followed. I reversed the course of my life. You might be too late in doing this...was the key to break my wayward mindset.

Another key component was to stop all DJs...and I did this by listening to myself, to my myriad of justifications. I found out my habit of justifying my choices was how I lied to myself. It's what created and fed my resentment, built it into entitlement...and was deeply disrespectful.

Your BW has patience to a point. She may have run out of patience by now...when we continue to lead our lives, make our choices, in reaction to how we feel, it happens. Does more damage and stops healing. Thwarts it...a big LB in our marriage.

Same to DJ...because to define your partner is to not look at yourself. You can state, "I wish my BW acted less impatient with me." That's yours and it's real. Rather than "My BW has no patience." One is a blatant lie, btw...for a BW who chooses to recover the marriage after infidelity, instead of leave it, has tremendous strength, commitment and patience.

The lie can serve to justify your actions...so see the lie in that. You choose your actions...there is no justifications anymore.

Cat's talking stick is important to build listening skills. A big part of our recovery was doing communication exercises...and it took us making them a very high priority...we did them twice a week, took one half hour each time...had set boundaries around the exercise, how we conducted them, and we developed communication skills which serve us even today. Definitely necessary, IMO.

Before we began them, I'd already committed myself to stop DJ'ing...which included holding myself back from focusing on my WH and refocusing on me...my actions, my stuff...because part of the reason I went wayward in the first place was focusing where I had no control, a constant act of disrespect.

Doesn't seem to me you understand this...for your post says you get sucked into what she's doing/not doing...rather than you. The big picture you seem to be missing is that you must change your choice of beliefs, thoughts, intentions, goals and perceptions. You were not in the habit of acting from respect and love (antidotes to the wayward mindset)...and it doesn't seem as if that's your goal right now to acquire the habit to stay cured...part of the extraordinary precautions you are to put into place.

First rule would be to NEVER talk between 12am and 6am. To move heaven and earth to be available to LISTEN to your BW for at least one hour a day (can be 1/2 hour in the morning, 1/2 hour in the evening)...and to make sure you both play at least one hour a day together. Part of that UA time can be doing the communication exercise. Part can be RC. Bigger RC on the weekends...and yes, make it happen without excuses BECAUSE of the kids...they would happily, if you ask them 10 years from now, have missed out on your attention for a little bit now, during crisis (and beginning recovery is still crisis) than to have their family broken apart.

Marriage first, then children. You get this backwards (focusing on the children because they are innocent and you both are not) and you won't have that intact family to ask later. I know...we lived it backwards, too. Put your marriage first and the rest will follow.

No has to call in sick...she did call in sick. Get into the routine of that difference. No one has to talk during those hours...you can make the time...you made it to have an affair...you made it court and woo your wife...you'll be making that time to keep you both in love with each other later...learn it now. Learn what can be done differently (like hire a weekly maid) to allow for the UA time.

Then do the exercises so you can really hear and be heard...know and be known...and experience acts of respect and love within your marriage right away.

I agree with Cat...saying there is no hope of controlled conversations not late at night is saying you are choosing to end your marriage. That's the bottom line. Your part is to own your part...that's what you said. Then state it like you own it...you are choosing not to...

You both can make different choices. If one of you had a terminal illness and wouldn't be alive in two months, you would be making the time. Well, your marriage may not last another two months...looks terminal to me if you, the WS, isn't understanding amends and really doing them (from the inside out)...so this isn't me in hyperbole.

Communication exercise we did is a marriage saver, IMO. No DJs involved...has room for both of you. If you both want to get your priorities straight and learn to communicate well, from respect and love...then ask me.

You'll need to learn how to, anyway, for your next marriage, correct? Why not do it now, together? One has the added benefit of redemption...the other, of healing the unforgivable. I don't see the down side.

You might even recover if you stick to doing it, holding yourself to the exercise boundaries...they go a long way in healing and redeeming, IME.

LA

Thanks for posting CP and LA, I will respond to your posts tomorrow as im going to respond to my W's first.

Hi yllan - see you're online.

Thinkin of dipping your toes back into MB and creating a wonderful marriage?


She DOES, doesn't she?

You ready to help her build the marriage she deserves?

Hello MB,

Its been a while but im back and seeking answers/advice to help push my marriage into a state of focused recovery.

So where to start...... wow its been soo long, well actually last year since I last posted!!

I wish I could say theres a lot to report on, but shamefully thats not really the case. Obviously theres been some big issues which i'll address, some small issues and some improvements so lets begin.


Major issues:

1) Job training - I started my new job in March and its a fantastic job with amazing perks and really suites our family down to the ground. Only drawback was it required a 4 week stay away from home in a hotel half way up the country; only travelling back at weekends.

Before I left we agreed that I would phone every night to say goodnight to the children and then I would phone back later each evening so we could catch up and talk.

We also agreed that I wouldnt drink as she was concerned about me controlling myself after having a drink and that was a trigger for her.

I had preivously bought a book on emotional intelligence called 'Applied EI' as I really dont understand a lot of things emotional based and wanted to try and improve myself for myself but more importantly the marriage and my wife. I had put off reading it the previous 3 months when I had been at home not wokring but everytime I tried to read it something got in the way. Although it was my idea to study EI my failure to follow through with it making excuse after excuse about reading the book, understandibly frustrated my wife as again I was failing. It came down to me promising to read it on my trip, and my wife called it a last chance to improve things although she didnt believe I would have any chance of reading it due to my course content but I was adament I could.

I drove up on a sunday as my group were supposed to meet for dinner at the hotel at 8. The drive was a few hours. Whilst driving my wife phoned me to check I was ok and we chatted for almost an hour. During that time I asked to speak to the kids as I thought I might as well say goodnight as I didnt know how things were going to work at the hotel and didnt want to mess up instantly. She said they were busy so I didnt talk to them. Upon reaching the hotel I had to book in and unpack my belongings. I met up with the people from my course and we went and after a short presentation from the course trainers had dinner as expected. Being the first dinner it lasted longer than expected as we hadnt had a chance to pre-order our food and our group had just short of 30 people in it so the order was large as you can imagine. Anyway by the time I got back to my room it was around 10 and my wife called me very angry as I hadnt said goodnight to the boys. I couldnt believe this was already happening on day one considering she knew the exact situation my end. So had massive argument and left things unresolved.

Next day was spent learning how the course was going to work, course artinary, breakfast/lunch/dinner/break and finishing times etc.... During the first lunch we wandered over to a nearby supermarket which was around walk 10mins away to see what was what. My course finshed 5-5:30 most days and dinner was 6:30-8 so I told my wife I would phone around 6 to say goodnight to the kids as they eat around 5:30 and then phone her later around 9-10 ish so she would be relaxed and ready to talk un-interrupted.

So I was in my room and she contacted me about 5:45 angry that I hadnt had any contact at all today considering how things were left the night before. I was confused as I was about to ring the kids as agreed. She was fuming that I hadnt thought about her during the day enough to contact her. I told her that it was day one and I was still learning how things were going to run. She couldnt understand why I couldnt find time to send a simple text message even if it was whilst walking to the supermarket. We ended up anguing again and that lasted onto the evening chat too.

During one of our arguments she was dissapointed that I wasnt taking EP's into account considering how hard this trip was for her and how many tiggers it has. I commented "did she want me contacting her like a robot or to contact her when im thinking about her?" she was angry as this meant I wasnt thinkihng about her as often as I should be.

This continued to be the theme for more or less the whole 4 weeks. Things between us were stretched and cold and we were always arguing. I didnt get much reading done as between course work, our arguments (not minutes but hours each one) and my lack of willpower.

Another major issue from course was that in week 2 I phoned her to ask if she could transfer money to my card so I could have one beer while watching a football match. She did it but later when we spoke she was furious that I had had a drink when I had promised not to drink and watched a football match instead of reading my book again as I had promised.

Upon returning home everything went backwards, I felt really angry as this should have been time away from the family for me to see how I missed them and to work on myself, but NEVER once did I feel on my own. My wife was permanently there harassing me and stressing me out. So obviously when she asked if I had missed the family I couldnt say yes as I felt I had NEVER left them????

2) Violence - I have always had a tendancy to hold my emotions in leading to an outburst ALWAYS at inanimate objects. Before the affair I had NEVER laid a hand on my wife. Since the affair I have become soo stressed and frustrated that I have reached new levels of outbursts. I still have my occassional outbursts at objects etc.... But now in arguments im verbally fighting back where before I would be the passive one and my wife would shout and scream. Now im joining her it means the arguments dont really defuse and that leads to huge amounts of anger and frustration for us both.

It all came to a head while the football world cup was on. I had friends round watching the football as they had done previous matches. I had promised my wife that my friends would leave after the football as we had been working opposite shifts and hadnt had any together time for a while. My friends and I had some drinks (no where near enough to be intoxicated) but still we had been drinking. After the football finished I expected my friends to leave as a couple of them had kids and they would need dinner and bed etc.. and my only concern was getting rid of my other friend. So the football finished and didnt go well; we were all talking and expressing our views. My wife removed herself upstairs as she was frustrated, I saw this and followed her into the bedroom and tried to cuddle her. She didnt want to talk and she felt the evening had been ruined. I became increasing frustrated and angry that I felt she was being unreasonable and that we could still spend time together. She became repetitive and i lost my cool and smacked her side and said "stop being such a spoilt b***h". She jumped out of bed in shock and started yelling "dont touch me".

She preceeded to try and leave the room to go downstairs which frustrated me as I hate public scenes and shes plays off them. So I angryily grabbed her by the arms and threw her onto the bed and held her down. I shouted at her that she was psycho etc....

I got off and she tried to leave the room again and I pinned her up against the wall by her face and scrathed her arm. I let go and went downstairs and left her with a close friend. She called me back up a while later and asked if I was going to apologise for what I had just done, I didnt and she said that in that case she was going call the police. I ignored her and went downstairs. She called police and they came and arrested me and I spent quite a few hours in a cell and was finger printed, interviewed etc....
I felt angry as I am becoming a person that I dont like and thats not me. I work for the government so a criminal record means I could well lose my job. I felt like I should leave this marriage before it/she turns me into a monster and I do something truely terrible.

I recieved a police caution which means if I reoffend I will instantly be charged. My wife picked me up and was expecting a full apology for my behaviour. I could bring myself to do it as I was soo angry that she had reduced me to nothing but a thug after being a gentle perosn my entire life. I felt terrible for hurting her but was so angry with what i saw as her part that it took me quite a while to utter an apology.


3) Lack of affair apology - Its been almost 2 years since D-day for my wife and apart from a couple of half assed attempts shes had nothing to go on.

I've fought this as up until very recently as I havent understood or agreed to my wifes definition of an apology. She has spent hours of emotional input trying to help me to 'get it' but has never got though.

I now understand that despite what I think I have to trust my wife in terms of what she needs.

The apology will be done very soon.

4) Upon returning from my course I added people to facebook from the course both male and female without consulting my wife, one of wish looked very simliar to the OW. This was a boundry that I had set myself, to communicate at all times when adding females on facebook as I have behaved innappropriately at various times thoughtout the marriage via facebook. Understandly she was angry and although I initally deflected her anger I did admit I was wrong and removed all the females and apologised for it.


Positive improvements:

1) My wife has relinquished control over the finances and I now control them and am doing a great job (her words not mine)

2) I am more involved with the kids and take them out more than I used to and without moaning and always fearing the worst

3) I have been very supportive towards my wife especially regarding her diet and her work.


Conclusion:

Right so here we are..... Our family has improved, our finances are showing signs of improving and our marriage is ok. Not where it should be just ok.

My wife is waiting for an apology which I plan to do very soon although theres still time for you to reply to my doubts above regarding this issue. Thanks

My wife wants to follow MB although im not sure she herself is capable. She appears to process things a little different to people here and maybe thats why not many people try to help?? I dont know, she has her own doubts over whether she can meet my EN's even if I did meet hers but I guess thats for us to see once I've upped my game.

Biggest issue for me is that our life is stupidly busy and I mean FULLY busy!!! I would say that I have a full time job (evening work so no alone time together for us at all), I would estimate I do 80-90% of the housework and almost every meal in our house, plus organise my wifes diet food for her. I have 4 kids to look after as she works mornings most days of the week and 3 evenings. I am in full control of the finances both monthly and weekly. I barely manage 15hours of down time a week let alone 15 hours dedicated just to marriage and uninterupted. This is a big issue so please dont down play it or make comments like - if you want it bad enough you will make it happen. Our life is busy and evenings are more or less out or bounds!!
Only thing I do for myself EVER is I go to the gym 3 days a week for about 1-30 to 2 hours each time. This is my only sin (if you need to call it that) and this is down to my insecurities with my body.

Everytime we talk about EN's and MB I feel like I want to say ok, but I cant manage everything, some things going to have to give but then she things im playing games. I dont think its reasonable for me to do all I am doing and then add all this dedicated work as well. The people who know US agree how hard I work and can see what I do, so I genuinely believe I am not exaggerating what I have said here.

Please help me to focus on stepping up my game and also help us to find a way to sensibly implement MB into our lives.

Thanks, please feel free to ask any questions as im trying to cover a whole 8 months here from memory.

Thanks for any posts.

You need to apologize to your wife, you should HAVE NOT even touched her, especially with how much you were drinking. I would have called the cops too if you were my husband.

If you had PROMISED your wife a night after the game...then you should ALWAYS keep your promise, you could have handled that situation a little better....

1.) You should have talked to the guy's when they GOT THERE or even before they arrived to say "ok guys as soon as the game is over it will be honey and I's time...if you know what I mean" Then give em a wink, they WILL leave if they know you will be getting some action after the game! Even if that was NOT the case, it would have worked.

2.) You should have not been drinking, knowing that is a HUGE trigger to your wife I suggest you quitting all together, I believe that was one of the issues that night. Not only your had promised to spend time with her but you were also drinking, BAD IDEA! Talk to your wife about attending AA meetings so you can stop your drinking, you don't have to be an alcoholic to attend.

3.) Since you were drinking you were not thinking straight so when you pushed her onto the bed, and pinned her against the wall WAS THE BIGGEST MISTAKE YOU HAD MADE!!

You are at fault for these issues, and YOU need to apologize for them!

You need to understand something, everything you did...going out of town for 4 weeks, drinking, and making promises and breaking them are HUGE triggers to your wife, I would have acted the same way if I knew my husband would have been out of town for that long and didn't even send me a text that said "miss you babe!"

Till this day my husband has triggers, and I can't control them but I understand the pain he get's when those triggers come up, and SO SHOULD YOU!

Quoting Dr Harley:

Quote

Alcohol, Abuse, and Infidelity


It's not uncommon for a woman married to an abusive alcoholic to try to escape by having an affair. There are reasons why this approach to abuse seems appropriate at the time. An abused woman is often financially dependent on her husband, and could not easily support herself and her children during a separation. So she looks for another man, usually much older, to provide that support while she transitions out of her marriage. In almost all cases, she ends up jumping from the frying pan into the fire. The abusive husband becomes even more dangerous, and the other man usually ends up dumping the frightened woman and her children. As the writer of this letter notes, the man she turned to "turned out to be a jerk."

Control and abuse in marriage are deal-breakers. They are not only a risk to a woman's safety, but they also prevent her from feeling romantic love toward her husband. That's why I call them Love Busters. Selfish demands, disrespectful judgments, and angry outbursts combine to create control and abuse, and every couple should do whatever is necessary to eliminate them. They should not be tolerated. When an abusive spouse refuses to overcome these destructive habits, I generally advise the abused spouse to separate until safety is restored, even if it is financially difficult for them.

But while I recommend separation when a spouse is being verbally or physically abused, I do not recommend separation when a spouse is having an affair. The reason, of course, is that the separation usually makes it easier to make contact with the lover. So when abuse and infidelity occur at the same time, my advice tends to be on a case-by-case basis. This week's couple is an example of cases where I tend to keep spouses together.

FYI

Not once in 29 years has my dear husband called me a name.

Not once.

Even when he was drinking .... and he IS an alcoholic.

Not once in 29 years has my dear husband physically abused me, or even come close.

Not once.

YOU sir, are a dangerous man.

Thanks for taking time to respond, I value all feedback as its your time and you didnt have to write to me to try and help me and my family.


Absolutely couldnt agree more, I will never touch her again, we addressed this issue and agreed that if ever either of us feels ourselves getting THAT angry we will remove ourself from the argument; not by walking out but by stating we are taking a break


You are right, I should have been more dedicated to clearing the house after the football and yes the drink did cloud my judgement on the situation.

I am very quilty of breaking promises to my wife especially when it comes to something recovery based. Thats why shes feeling so lost, she has run out of hope and belief that I can make this happen


Im going to explain this as I dont want this being blown out of proportion. In the average week I drink NOTHING. I drink maybe once in 1-2 months if I see my friends (and even them I dont get drunk) and you can ask on my wifes thread if my drinking is an actual issue.

The REASON why drinking was a boundry for my work course was because I was drinking on both occassions I slept with the POSOW. Being away from home and drinking was the trigger for my wife, NOT me actually drinking.

Does that make sense?? It was my fault for not explaining properly but with so much to catch up I didnt know what to mention and what not too.

Trust me drinking is not even a TINY issue at all, ask my wife


My wife still triggers often and somethings I see and understand it and will comfort her and other times I will miss it or not get it and it goes un-dealt with.

As I stated above im quilty of breaking promises with recovery so understandibly my wifes patience with this is extremely low.

It wasnt 4 weeks without any contact but the first night and 2nd day without extra contact (EP). Once I was settled I instigated much more contact but because we had had the argument about it the meaning had gone and my wife just believed I was doing it to keep her quiet and didnt believe there was any sincerity in it even though there was.

But thats my problem I do things but not before shes raised an issue, which then takes away from whatever it is I've done.


Dont get me wrong I have MANY many things to improve on and I know that, I just dont know how to encorperate it with normal life???

Thanks for your input, Ive seen you post in many threads, you are very blunt and direct but always make a good point.

I feel so gutted as your statement above is exactly what my wife used to say about me. In the 8 years pre-affair it was my wife who always name called and she could never understand how I didnt retaliiate, but was proud and used to praise me etc...

Post-affair im soo ashamed to say that the statement is no longer true. I feel a much higher level of frustration in me and yes I probably should look into an anger management class of some kind. Fitting that in will be fun but joking aside I will look into this.

My wife can respond to whether im dangerous or not better than me but I believe im still a gentle person at heart (stop laughing) but have a BIG problem when frustrated and that NEEDS to be addressed

This post is to your wife:

I agree with Pepperband. Please remove yourself and your children from this man. He has made it clear in his posts that he cares about no one but himself and that he is annoyed and frustrated at having to be bothered with a wife and kids.

He cheats on you and he gets physically violent with you, but then blames others for his own cruelty, selfishness and poor choices.

He would have to do much work to ever be a decent marriage partner. You cannot do it for him. You have tried long enough.

Well, I must say, I am heartened by your response to me.
I was half-expecting a name-calling, profanity-filled angry retort.

Good on you!

Your anger / frustration problem should be addressed before anything else.

You should change the title of this thread to "How can I avoid doing the real work to save this marriage?"

I have read excuse after excuse on this thread of why not to take the advice, AND, not only that, I have read how you would then like your wife to take the advice from MBs she is being given and run with it. My advice to her is to RUN.

You, sir, are remorseless. Not apologizing for physically abusing your wife? What? You SHOULD go to jail for assault! It's the LAW! You SHOULD apologize for such an offense, you should pay for the wrongs done to others.

Not understanding emotions, yours or others...sounds like some personality disorder. You could see a doctor and get diagnosed and then use THAT as an excuse to avoid doing what is right.


Me me me me me me me me me me me me me....



...this is just wrong. Do you really consult the Harleys? Being away from your family doesn't bring you closer, it drives you apart. Duh! It's MB 101.


You are responsible for yourself here. Your wife cannot in any way control your reactions. YOU grabbed her, shoved her about and frightened her in an attempt to control her, physically and mentally. ALL YOU. Don't blame others for the things you do.



From wikipedia
Apology may refer to:
An expression of regret, roughly a dislike of one's own actions in the past

From dictionary.com
a�pol�o�gy   [uh-pol-uh-jee] Show IPA
�noun, plural -gies.
1.
a written or spoken expression of one's regret, remorse, or sorrow for having insulted, failed, injured, or wronged another

Your wife doesn't need to define WHAT an apology is. You KNOW what it is and should be the one finding ways to express it and SHOW it. SHOWING it (actions) is the best way; changing your poor behaviors, setting up and following EPs without being coaxed to do it by your wife. STOP MAKING EXCUSES!

DJ...who are you to draw this conclusion?

Start sharing responsibilities at home. More excuses here for not doing the work. POJA how to get the work done, spreading the work out.

From your post, it comes off that you are disrespectful of your wife. That she somehow is just too dumb to 'get' you or to 'get' MB and follow it. MB is an SOP for saving your marriage. It's cut and dried. Follow it closely, you have the best chance to save your marriage. Make excuses why NOT to follow the SOP, and you will fail.

Im sorry you feel that im that nasty!! The only time I got angry on MB was when someone wrongly attacked my wife and I defended her.

Anyway its nice to surprise someone whether they were being sarcastic or not

Your post made me cry. My first H was abusive and of course he had an A before I divorced him. I remember him slamming me against a wall because he had made a promise to me, broke it and I questioned him about it. I agree with pepper, you are abusive. Not only did you have an A, but you also abused your W. You really don't realize how awful it is to have to suffer through knowing your spouse decided to invite some other POS into your M without your consent. You wrote that it had been a while since you and your W have had alone time and yet you still allowed your friends to stay over and basically ignore your W's need for affection. You really don't deserve your W.

Thanks for posting, wow theres a lot to address here.....



Yes they maybe excuses but its still our life that we share together and its rather jam packed?!?

With regards to the apology to my wife regarding violence you're absolutely right, my frustration wasnt with her but the situation. She didnt do anything to deserve or warrant anything of the disgusting behaviour I showed towards her that evening.


Not going to fight you here, it does concern me how different I appear to be compared to other people, but every medical person Ive seen likes me and trusts me as i come accross as sane/calm and clever. It took my wife coming with me and begging my doctor just to get a therapist :-s


OMG WOAH you are WAYYYYYYY off target here but thats not your fault it was badly explained, here goes.....

My wife wanted me to experience life without the family so I can see how lonely it would be if we had to seperate.

I was angry as when she then questioned me on my feelings regarding this I felt it had never happened???

make sense?? not mememememememememe just badly explained


True true true



Im going to side step this, sorry


Sure I followed that statement by explaining that I got my doubts from her doubts that she clearly expressed to me??



Not that simple, wife has poly cycstic Ovarium Syndrome and suffers with cronic fatigue. Plus her way of dealing with sadness is to escape to our bedroom, plus we work oposite work shifts so our schedule is tight.



Hope I've cleared a couple of the issues up or maybe just explained a little better even if they still are issues.

Time needs to be made and effort needs to be upped. Not as overnight as that though. although i guess it has been 2 years now. My wife admits our life is better now so something is working despite the busy schedule but unless we help the marriage I guess thats all pointless??

Find way to UNjam pack it. That is the point. There are things that you can stop doing outside of the family, until such a time that your family, the most important thing you got going, is safe and sound. Right now, you are not doing that.



put this into context. These medical professionals don't have you under any real stress or scrutiny...your wife does. You will not react in their presence as you do with your wife behind closed doors where you allow poor behaviors more than you would with colleagues or docs.


Again, this is an excuse. Have either one of you considered either cutting back your schedules or changing your careers? There's more than one way to make these changes. That's what POJA is all about. If you are stretched to thin, find a way to make it work. NO EXCUSES.

You are not telling me or most here anything we haven't been through or already know. Every good plan starts with step one, and takes a great deal of time to implement. Gotta start NOW.