I'm so sorry you're having to endure this BH, I really am. But can't you see - this is HIS failure. NOT yours.


He didn't change - he is still that man, only worse. And on top of it he now has your stamp of approval on his behavior. Every day you stay you tell him this behavior is ok.

Your fear is going to cripple you and your children.

It is ok to be alone. It is ok.

Alone with your kids is BETTER than the abuse your husband gives. MUCH better.

You can do this. I remember the story of your youth and childhood. You are capable.

If this marriage fails it is because of his abuse, his affair and his inability to change. HIS failure. Not yours.

Your staying ensures failure.

Yes, we can all see that. Many of us have been in the same position you are in. YOU have choices to make, BH28.

Your WH is home and continues to make those 'excuses' and exhibit those selfish behaviors. Doesn't seem like much has changed.

I mean, COME ON...he sent his mother over to make excuses for him. All in the family, eh.

Honestly, I would RATHER be alone than deal with the added anguish that your WH is placing upon you. The added stress and confusion that a remorseless WS brings to the home can crush a person's soul.

If you are spending any time blaming yourself for your WH's actions, you really need to read up on boundaries and get your head straight.

Vibressa I have to take time to think about this I am seriousely considering asking him to leave, he will move in with his parents and giving him a list of musts before he can consider coming back home.

can i use his parents as IM's?
Im lucky i dont have to do much legal work as we have Nothing of value to protect before plan B.

Im going to seriousely think about it and i mean it. Right now his attitude is to take MBers as a joke and its upsetting me as I have read most threads and have so much respect and admiration for so many on here it upsets me to see his attitude towards them.

I will need help putting a clear lists of musts that is cohearant and im sure i can get some help on here.

Im just asking for thinking time. Ill be back on monday and I will have a concrete resolution and plan no matter what. I need to move on with or without him and after seeing his attitude and the ugliness he has inside now its a real eye opener.

I havent even cried or screames thats how subdude i have become and its not right.

BH28 if you end up asking him to leave and he ends up in another affair, FILE for a DIVORCE!! He does not respect you.

If you do plan B, do not use his parents as IM's. There is a huge conflict of interest there and will work against you.

It is always the attitude of an active wayward to take MB's as a joke. No surprise there.

I agree - don't use his parents as IMs. For crying out loud his MOTHER came to tell you he wasn't in love with you! No not a good IM. You need someone that will be good at filtering out all emotional messages for you.

ok will have to look into that one I dont have anyone else friends wise to be an Im, maybe i will ask my best friend who lives an hour away.
How do i manage childcare, he looks after kids while im at work. that wont be a problem but to go dark have to find a way to do kids handover in the morning without seeing him any ideas

For Plan B, you need an IM who will act in YOUR and your childrens' best interest.

probably my best friend she is very good and sees through WS also is very good communicator and clever so i trust her totally. only problem her availability might be limited as she is not in the best health but then the contact shouldnt be that much via an IM anyway right? once a week maybe to concrete childcare plans etc.

so from what i have read plan b is no contact visual or communication with WS for an indeterminate amount of time until list of musts is met??
2) use IM to communicate regarding kids
3)work on yourself while WS is in B camp

anything else i should know?

and how do i know when he agrees to meet list of musts as opposed to saying he will but not doing it?

I suggest that you don't do a full plan B. Plan B is to protect yourself form current A behaviour.

I think you need to be in contact so that you can assure yourself that he is doing the work and he still needs to be accountable to you and provide that evidence that there he isn't out drinking or seeing anyone else. This worked for us.

Of course this has to be his choice and your boundary is exactly as Pep suggested: you make your list of what you are certain you want... you need that evidence before he can live with you again.

He is mocking MB because it is your hope at the moment - he mocks it because he is angry because he thinks he will lose control and you will satnd up for yourself. He is trying to keep you down - My husband did EXACTLY the same thing.

MBers can't be applied if there is abuse but you can still list your requirements along side how that will make you feel safe.

Much like an A exposure of Domestic violence has the same affect - it helps the person become accountable - very dodgy ground because of course like exposure after an A the WS gets angry and when dealing with someone that is known to be physically abusive it can put you in danger.

I managed to do it - I told many of our friends> J wrote a letter to both his parents and my parents explaining the violence and how we were dealing with it and they were all supportive as we had a plan to work it out.


Unfortunately- all my postings on this subject including schoolbus' interpretation of the letters he wrote got lost in the big MB outage last year.

Take care

oK staytogether, Im planning to go dark for the first few weeks just so i can get strong and confident on my own for a bit, when he went to the training course in april I was so happy and confident i loved who i was then he came back with the "attitude" again and it went to pot. So this time i want to enjoy the worry free time and stay clear of manipulative WS until i settle into life alone. then I will do a milder plan B where we can have contact but still live separately to see if anything is improving and assess situation. does this sound ok?

oh and his parents (where he will be living) feel responsible for the A as it started under their roof so they will be watchful and will not allow him to stray (or evnen internet access) so i have a little bit of peace of mind there

Sounds good - I remember the relief and now you have said that remember the confidence it gave me and how that was when I knew I could go it alone.

Yes you do that.

There is no way his parents can control him, BH. If he wants to stray, he will. He must be the one to be watchful and to institute appropriate precautions. They are not responsible for his A, never were in any way shape or form.

I am not so sure about a semi dark Plan B. This is not Plan B. Perhaps you should be contacting the Harleys about the situation and getting their advice on how you should proceed.

We discussed this last year on my thread for abuse situations. The protection this type of separation afforded whilst still keeping contact worked well. However I think it will only work if Y-E wants to do it himself, not if BH has to kick him out. If she kicks him out then a REAL plan B is the only way.

If he shows willing by voluntarily moving out then the few weeks for her to gte her self confidnece up will be good - she can get everything lined up ready for D (as I did) and then if she stills wants to she can have the accountability from him thta he has been doing the work.

If he is willing and doing it a dark plan B isn't necessary.

Silent, the thing is I dont have a problem getting WS to agree to do something, its weather he will ACTUALLY do it thats the problem.
Semi dark plan B gives me the chance to see the changes myself rather than hear the empty half baked promises.
for exsample if he wanted to apologise for the affair after a period of dark B then he has a chance during semi dark B plan time. If he agrees to anger managment and attends consisently then i can see in semi dark plan B the progress and I am in a position to assess weather its genuine or just so he can come back home.

as far as the parents go i agree they are not responsible in any way however he will find it more difficult to do anything affair wise under their roof.

If he does have an affair this time then im RUNNING to the divorce courts.

am i making sense or am i getting it wrong

It makes sense. I guess I just wouldn't lump that plan in with Plan B. Meh, that's just me.

Staytogether can better relate to this plan. I would still suggest that you consult the Harleys.

I'd certainly be interested in what the Harley's had to say.

I am expecting a long dark plan B anyway it takes time for him to miss his family. Ill cross the Plan semi dark bridge when i get to it.
Harleys wise cant afford consult as need to get kids shoes and school uniform this month, Its my birthday in a week too so any money presents i might get i will put towards harley consultation. Need to do this plan once and well.

A plan is the best thing...and advice from those in the know is always advised.

Hey MB

Update time again, im starting to wish we could have a blogging section on MB it would be quite good to use to catch up on the progress of many members that I used to follow and now cant find.

So wedding weekend over and I am still determined on going ahead with a plan. This is where I have got to so far, on the 14th of september its our 10th wedding anniversary, we are not doing anything for it as finances still not good enough so thats my date to act, I have been in a good marriage 5 years and in a ok one 3 years then an affair marked one for the last 2 years, im not going to carry on being in anything other than a good marriage, thats the promise im making myself.

I have told WS that im not happy with the way he has and carries on acting and have told him in no uncertain terms to get on the MB recovery train or get off the marriage one thats it no compromises. I need En's met, I need POJA perfection, Boundries adhered to and love bank filling for us to even start getting somewhere near recovery. He has until our anniversary to show the commitment or get out.

Other updates are that he did deliver apology of some sort not what I wanted but will do for now. He was making jokes throughout and it just really didnt connect with me it was like taking about the football match bland and numb. Atleast he has done something i guess. Havent made a big deal of the apology simply pointed out that he will need to keep apologising for things when they come up and maybe ill beleive he is sorry over time, tried to make him feel better after the apology just to encourage progress.

wedding weekend very painful for me not so much because of the hotel but because its really shown me how much I have shut down. I used to be such a hopless romantic, watched endless romcoms and loved a good love story but now I am really numb to them. I was so happy to see my friend get married and so happy for her in general but I just didnt feel any love around or anything (the wedding was super romantic) I was numb just like i would have been if i was at a meeting, Whats wrong with me and has anyone got the same thing?? I am so confused and dumbfounded what happened to the romance in me?

Hotel night was ok I had made it clear there would be no SF at the hotel as I would be very uncomfortable with this, WS did respect my wishes and I did make an effort to meet his needs the night before more than once to make sure he would be at bay at the hotel room. I fell asleep quickly and had a really disturbed night but the morning was where all the ugliness came out. I was triggered over and over again. Told Ws about some of it hid the rest. really tryed to have fun out but was just exhausted, not miserable just really energyless, wondered around shops and went for luch before driving home. I just dont know what we have left to talk about these days we were so silent so often it was like i was out with a brother or couzin, very strange.

anyway back home and not unhappy not happy just getting on with work. dont know what to make of any of this. am i depressed?? am i falling out of love with him?? someone help me make sense of these oddities