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I left 2 messages for attorney office and she was tied up all day. Their office just emailed me the "intent to file bankruptcy" letter that his attorney faxed. It did give a file #.

Would like to keep the house till DD gets out of school since this year is very intense grade wise/taking college courses.

I think PP is a fool to affairage him. Maybe if he declares this before they get hitched she is not responsible.

If he could pull this off it would just clear the way for both of them. He will continue to live in her house and pay her mortgage and bills and use her credit card with money he no longer has to pay his own stuff.

Does not matter if his family is impacted. Does not matter that it might leave me with bad credit and not being to take care of my own financial future.

As long as he is happy, as long as he has money, as long as he takes care of PP ---

He is spiraling down...way down.




Me 55, XWH 53, M 22 years
D17, D30
alien replaces my husband "I'm not happy" -7/08
Discover OW-8/08 (his direct report and I work there also)
H moves out 10/1/08, confront Ow 10/28/08
Plan B 1/09
D final 12/09

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Hope

After you posted this, I wondered at what point do you hope for something besides the restoration of your marriage?

I look at Believer and see your husband going down that track to destruction before he will be restored to his faith and family.

You have yourself and two daughters to protect. It's time to find out your legal choices and act swiftly.

He did this to fire a shot back at you for taking him back to court. He has not thought through the consequences, but for the last two years this man has acted only with his limbic brain and his higher brain has been fried on plastic. There is no higher brain left. So regardless of the consequences, he will do what he can to harm you financially.

Cut yourself off from all financial connections to him and do it immediately.

It's time to exercise a stop loss on your hope.


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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Originally Posted by hope3343
If he could pull this off it would just clear the way for both of them. He will continue to live in her house and pay her mortgage and bills and use her credit card with money he no longer has to pay his own stuff.

If the affairage is in early Oct. there is not enough time to get through a bankruptcy. What does he think, that you can file one week and the court waves the wand and relinquishes you of any responsibility the next week? Not gonna happen.

PP really is the idiot that you think she is if she goes through with this before a br is final. She will though, because it's her best pot shot at you, and that 's what is the most important to her - to "win" your man.

Man? She's getting a frickin' weasel.....


BS - me 56
XWH - 57

12/25/06 - Dday - WH promised NC. Plan A in effect. Thought we were in recovery.

6-3-07 - Dday#2 Found out NC never took place and A never ended. Found MB NC promised again, but WH would not write NC letter.

9/07 - Dday #3. Still lying and sneaking around. Plan B implemented
WH wants nothing to do with me

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Articles Legal Updates The New Bankruptcy Law: Changes to Chapter 7 and 13
Chapter 7 bankruptcy may be harder to file under the new law.
The changes to bankruptcy law in 2005 may be making it harder for some people to file bankruptcy. A few filers with higher incomes will no longer allowed to use Chapter 7 bankruptcy, but will instead have to repay at least some of their debt under Chapter 13. In addition, the 2005 law requires all debtors to get credit counseling before they can file a bankruptcy case -- and additional counseling on budgeting and debt management before their debts can be wiped out.
Here are some of the most important changes in the 2005 bankruptcy law.
Restricted Eligibility for Chapter 7 Bankruptcy
Under the old rules, most filers could choose the type of bankruptcy that seemed best for them -- and most chose Chapter 7 bankruptcy (liquidation) over Chapter 13 bankruptcy (repayment). The law passed in 2005 prohibits some filers with higher incomes from using Chapter 7 bankruptcy.
How High is Your Income?
Under the rules enacted in 2005, the first step in figuring out whether you can file for Chapter 7 bankruptcy is to measure your "current monthly income" against the median income for a household of your size in your state. If your income is less than or equal to the median, you can file for Chapter 7 bankruptcy. If it is more than the median, however, you must pass "the means test" -- another requirement of the new law -- in order to file for Chapter 7.
The Means Test
The purpose of the means test is to figure out whether you have enough disposable income, after subtracting certain allowed expenses and required debt payments, to make payments on a Chapter 13 plan. To find out whether you pass the means test, you subtract certain allowed expenses and debt payments from your current monthly income. If the income that's left over after these calculations is below a certain amount, you can file for Chapter 7.
If you're looking for an easy way to determine your eligibility under the means test, use our online means test calculator, created by the applicable income and expense standards for your state, county, and region to determine your eligibility.
Counseling Requirements
Before you can file for bankruptcy under either Chapter 7 or Chapter 13, you must complete credit counseling with an agency approved by the United States Trustee's office. (To find an approved agency in your area, go to the Trustee's website, www.usdoj.gov/ust, and click "Credit Counseling and Debtor Education".) The purpose of this counseling is to give you an idea of whether you really need to file for bankruptcy or whether an informal repayment plan would get you back on your economic feet.
Counseling is required even if it's obvious that a repayment plan isn't feasible or you are facing debts that you find unfair and don't want to pay. You are required only to participate, not to go along with any repayment plan the agency proposes. However, if the agency does come up with a repayment plan, you will have to submit it to the court, along with a certificate showing that you completed the counseling, before you can file for bankruptcy.
Toward the end of your bankruptcy case, you'll have to attend another counseling session, this time to learn personal financial management. Only after you submit proof to the court that you fulfilled this requirement can you get a bankruptcy discharge wiping out your debts. (The website above also lists approved debt counselors.)
Lawyers May Be Harder to Find -- and More Expensive
The changes to bankruptcy law enacted in 2005 added some complicated requirements to the field of bankruptcy. This made it more expensive -- and time-consuming -- for lawyers to represent clients in bankruptcy cases, which means attorney fees have gone up. The 2005 law also imposed some additional requirements on lawyers, chief among them that the lawyer must personally vouch for the accuracy of all of the information their clients provide them. This means attorneys have to spend more time on bankruptcy cases, and they charge their clients accordingly.
Some Chapter 13 Filers Will Have to Live on Less
Under the old rules, people who filed under Chapter 13 bankruptcy had to devote all of their disposable income -- what they had left after paying their actual living expenses -- to their bankruptcy repayment plan. The 2005 law added a wrinkle to this equation: Although Chapter 13 filers still have to hand over all of their disposable income, they have to calculate their disposable income using allowed expense amounts dictated by the IRS -- not their actual expenses -- if their income is higher than the median income in their state. These allowed expense amounts must be subtracted not from the filer's actual earnings each month, but from the filer's average income during the six months before filing.
Other Changes
Other changes were made in 2005 that have affected some bankruptcy filers negatively, including how property is valued (at replacement cost instead of at auction value, which means more debtors are at risk of having their property taken and sold by the trustee) and how long a filer must live in a state to use that state's bankruptcy exemption laws (this can make a big difference in the amount of property a bankruptcy filer gets to hold on to). .

Last edited by barbiecat; 08/28/10 04:29 PM.

Me; W 46
Him; H 46

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The reason that I posted the above is not to scare you, but to point out that there are LOTS of steps (time consuming steps) involed in post 2005 laws.

I don't think this is anything that XWH is going to "slide through". Sounds like a whole can of worms to open, IMHO


Me; W 46
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Hope, ask your attorney if he has access to "Pacer". If he does, he can download all the bankruptcy docs that your WH files, giving him the opportunity to either enforce the judgments in the divorce settlement or impeach him in his bankruptcy filing (a very serious offense if he lies about anything in his filings).

I agree, your WH is spiraling and it's not going to be pretty when he lands.

Prayers for you and your DD.


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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Hope, if his job requires a security clearance, filing bankruptcy will probably cost him his job, due to financial irresponsibility. He will have trouble keeping any job with a banktruptcy looming. If he ends with a wage garnishment, many companies would dismiss him. GF

Last edited by Going_Forward; 08/29/10 07:28 AM. Reason: punct.

Marriages don't fail, people do. (And I don't recall who said it)
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Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Hope, ask your attorney if he has access to "Pacer". If he does, he can download all the bankruptcy docs that your WH files, giving him the opportunity to either enforce the judgments in the divorce settlement or impeach him in his bankruptcy filing (a very serious offense if he lies about anything in his filings).

Wow !

This is a REALLY good idea !

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Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Hope, ask your attorney if he has access to "Pacer". If he does, he can download all the bankruptcy docs that your WH files, giving him the opportunity to either enforce the judgments in the divorce settlement or impeach him in his bankruptcy filing (a very serious offense if he lies about anything in his filings).

I agree, your WH is spiraling and it's not going to be pretty when he lands.

Oh, I bet he lies. And brace yourself Hope, because when he goes down it is going to be ALL YOUR FAULT!


BS - me 56
XWH - 57

12/25/06 - Dday - WH promised NC. Plan A in effect. Thought we were in recovery.

6-3-07 - Dday#2 Found out NC never took place and A never ended. Found MB NC promised again, but WH would not write NC letter.

9/07 - Dday #3. Still lying and sneaking around. Plan B implemented
WH wants nothing to do with me

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No word from attorney by close of business Friday.

thanks for all the support and knowledge that you shared. I will do everything in my power to protect my own family.

Read through the information from barbie cat. I do remember XH mentioning going to a financial advisor awhile back when he threatened bankruptcy. Not sure if he was taking steps then for credit counseling. Not sure if he moved any of his credit debt over to a repayment plan.

Will check with the atty about Pacer. Thanks Princess Meg.

Kayla appreciate you post. I will protect my family. I did not fall apart during the D when it came to finances and protecting my family.

I will not pay for XH bad choices and lifestyle. I cannot save him and nor does he want to be "saved". He is wallowing in the pig pen and still "trying to make it right".

I agree he is going on the same path as Believer's situation.

Did not tell DD17 about the bankruptcy this weekend because she had friends over Friday to celebrate her birthday and was just so darn happy I did not want to worry her. Wanted to have facts not potential hysteria to stress her out.

Will keep everyone posted.



Me 55, XWH 53, M 22 years
D17, D30
alien replaces my husband "I'm not happy" -7/08
Discover OW-8/08 (his direct report and I work there also)
H moves out 10/1/08, confront Ow 10/28/08
Plan B 1/09
D final 12/09

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Hi Hope! Sorry for the latest new low from your idiot exH. He seems to find ways to just dig himself deeper, huh? I wouldn't tell DD16 too much about this because this is adult stuff and she doesn't need to be thinking about it during her senior year. Tell her you've talked to your lawyer and you've got a plan and leave it at that.
I'd advise you tell DD30 not to overshare, either. You'll get through this--and things are still going to work out for you. Even if he trashes your credit, it will only be temporary. You can have a note put in your file explaining the situation, too.


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Hope,

I wrote this on Holyheart's thread when she thought her WH was filing for bankruptcy;

"I want to first qualify that I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. My WH and I have had to file for bankruptcy due to the most part a failed business.[Encouraged by pos ow] We are in Chapter 13, wherein we have to pay over all our disposable income for five years.

Based on this experience, I can share that we did not have to show what made up individual credit card balances, only a statement that showed the current balance. Almost all of our debt was joint, the business and the credit cards. Thus, even though it was my WH's business, we were both responsible for the debt. [Our attorney state a D would not change this for me]Are the credit cards you are referring to in both of your names or just his?

I would also check with your lawyer in regards to past due child support and alimony. This type of debt is priority debt and must be paid and current. It cannot go under the bankruptcy, Chapter 7 or Chapter 13.

Since your divorce isn't final, you will need advice on how his filing affects your credit. Lastly, if he does file, he does have to show his tax returns and his pay stubs. If he doesn't, the case does not proceed. Even though there are some differences between the individual states, the mechanism of bankruptcy is overseen by Federal judges and Trustees. And believe me, they do not mess around or provide second chances for request for information, or anything really."

After the 2005 change in law, all bankruptcies became extremely difficult according to our attorney. The means test which someone referred to can be found on the IRS website and on the state where he would file.

The Pacer system which PM referred to shows any court documents filed. As a creditor, you can also request through your attorney that you are copied on any court documents and they will send it to you, including his budget, tax returns, paystubs. Additional, there will be a creditor's meeting, assuming since he is working and makes a decent wage, where you can attend and listen, or even protest anything on his budget.

Lastly, as a creditor, you can have access to a National Data Center for Chapter 13 cases. It is www.13datacenter.com. All of this will happen very slowly and after the case is well established. We filed in 10/2007 and it wasn't confirmed/approved until April, 2009 due to complications with the landlord (WH's S and BIL) and taxes.

An employer cannot dismiss someone due to a bankruptcy, or not hire someone based on that. Of course, they can drum up different reasons as a cover, if they want to. Bottom line is, in most cases, there is a life changing event that causes someone to be in this position. The system is allegedly designed to allow for second chances, and for the creditors to receive some or all of their debt. I can honestly say that the "system" is stacked against the debtor as they are many people like your WH who don't want to take responsibility for their bad choices. So, it will not be a walk in the park for any involved. If there was any way I could have avoided it, I would. I begged the creditors to renegotiate the terms, the credit union that held the mortgage on the house, and the worst creditor of them all, my sister-in-law who was out for blood. The trustee and the judge, in our case, treat all debtors as someone trying to get away with something.
It is a painful process that almost mentally took me down, especially after the A, I didn't have any reserve left.
So, for me at least, it is certainly not the easy way out. It has also hurt our three son's credit due to student loans we cosigned on for the older two, and we are not allowed to help our youngest son go to college, that is most definitely the worst, to have my sons suffer.

I hope that your WH's bankruptcy is denied, for your YD sake.

All the best,

ba


Me-49, WH-51
Married 02/1983 yrs, Sons - 27, 26, 20
1st PA - 1985, 1st known EA - 1992/1993
2nd PA - 06/02 to 11/04
1st D-day - 09/03, D-day 2 - 10/04 D-day 3 05/08
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beginagain, thank you for the wealth of information.

I am concerned about my own credit.

He dug his own hole and it is filling with quick sand. Filing for this is a very serious step and the field we are in -- it is frowned upon when applying for new jobs and most cases employers will not hire someone that has a bankruptcy (especialy a recent one) on their record. He has officially lost his mind.

My attorney is researching this for me. They said this is the first time that they served someone for enforcement and the next day they try and file bankruptcy.

I am researching the laws of this state and doing my own fact finding to protect myself.

I have come to the realization that XH is finally "good enough" for PP. He is a cheater, lost his position, integrity and now is in financial ruin. This should be the perfect caliber of man she deserves and it only took 2 years to accomplish it.





Me 55, XWH 53, M 22 years
D17, D30
alien replaces my husband "I'm not happy" -7/08
Discover OW-8/08 (his direct report and I work there also)
H moves out 10/1/08, confront Ow 10/28/08
Plan B 1/09
D final 12/09

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((((Hope))))


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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Hey Hope,[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com] sorry you have to deal with all the continued drama.

Quote
I am researching the laws of this state and doing my own fact finding to protect myself.

Good for you, continue to protect yourself and your DD's

Quote
I have come to the realization that XH is finally "good enough" for PP. He is a cheater, lost his position, integrity and now is in financial ruin. This should be the perfect caliber of man she deserves and it only took 2 years to accomplish it.

A's are just the gift that keeps on giving.

{{{HOPE}}}

[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]


Me:BW
Dday:12/31/09-Found MB 01/03/10
3DstepChildren24&20
PlanA:01/03/10
PlanB:03/25/10
D final 11/15/10

"I dare you to find some time and some place to be silent for longer than usual; a few moments, a few minutes, a few hours. Listen to your heart, listen to your soul; and most importantly, listen to the silence to see what it sounds like and how it speaks to you."
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My missy you are the queen of icons and they are appreciated and always brings a smile to my face.


Me 55, XWH 53, M 22 years
D17, D30
alien replaces my husband "I'm not happy" -7/08
Discover OW-8/08 (his direct report and I work there also)
H moves out 10/1/08, confront Ow 10/28/08
Plan B 1/09
D final 12/09

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Hope,

What I was trying to convey is that your WH will not get a free ride for his unsecured debt (credit cards). If you have a decent wage, he will have to go into Chapter 13. If he tries for 7, the trustee would object and file for dismissal under the abuse regs. The trustee and judge's job is to get as much debt repaid as possible, they are advacates for the creditors, not the debtors. Especially in a case like WH where it is someone who ran up credit card debt.

In respect to affecting your credit, you are divorced and unless you still have joint credit, then it wouldn't affect you. It may be a little stressful until you find out from your attorney and things progress, but I don't see any reason that you and your daughter would have to sell your home and leave, just because his name is on the mortgage. Under 13, the house and/or assets do not have to be sold. Investment properties or luxery items like boats might though.

In respect to work, as I stated, by law they cannot use bankruptcy against you, but just like with age, race, gender, or anything else, employers could overtly use it. I am an executive in a global company and it hasn't harmed me per se, however it is humiliating. If you are a skilled professional in demand, it would not matter. Besides, it won't come up under your credit so it really won't matter to you, just perhaps your daughter for student loans.

Lastly, my wh's ow was under him at a large telecom company. These ow get the wh in part due to admiration and they want to be connected to someone in power, some how they think it elevates their own stature, which an A devalues it instead. Logic doesn't prevail in the A world!

Best of luck,

ba

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Hi beginagain,

We divided our credit that is not an issue, the 2 main issues are that XH in the D got land that is next to our house. There is a loan on it with both of our names. He could not switch the loan over to his name only because the lot had dropped in price and he could not get loan for the same amount. I think this would be considered an investment property.

Now he did not pay the lot loan for this month. I called the bank and it will affect my credit if he does not pay it. If this is included in the bankruptcy it will definitely affect my credit.

Our house is in both of our names and I pay the mortgage.

My concern is for my DD17 who is a senior this year. I plan on taking student/parent loans since again because of this lousy D I have almost nothing for DD to go to college. I need to have good credit for her to be eligible for loans.





Me 55, XWH 53, M 22 years
D17, D30
alien replaces my husband "I'm not happy" -7/08
Discover OW-8/08 (his direct report and I work there also)
H moves out 10/1/08, confront Ow 10/28/08
Plan B 1/09
D final 12/09

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Quote
I need to have good credit for her to be eligible for loans.


Are you sure about this? I admit, it's been a long time since this issue has come up for me, however, I'm thinking that with a Federal student loan, credit does not come into play. Anyway, before you go the loan route, make sure you exhaust all avenues for grants and scholarships, but you probably already know that.


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Quote
I need to have good credit for her to be eligible for loans.


Are you sure about this? I admit, it's been a long time since this issue has come up for me, however, I'm thinking that with a Federal student loan, credit does not come into play. Anyway, before you go the loan route, make sure you exhaust all avenues for grants and scholarships, but you probably already know that.

For Fafsa loans she should be ok but if I have to pull any parent loans I might be turned down. I do not want DD17 to be further impacted by the alien who was her father. We are applying for all grants/scholarships anything we can get our hands on.

I will do whatever possible for DD to get to school even if I have to work 3 jobs. She deserves college and more.


Me 55, XWH 53, M 22 years
D17, D30
alien replaces my husband "I'm not happy" -7/08
Discover OW-8/08 (his direct report and I work there also)
H moves out 10/1/08, confront Ow 10/28/08
Plan B 1/09
D final 12/09

Quote: "First thing you do is pray; when there is nothing else to do, continue to pray."
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