I don't think you understand the purpose of exposure, Humble, nor do you understand the mindset of a wayward. Of course we disagree because that is a BAD decision. You are still enabling the affair. You are HELPING your wife be a bad woman. You are the "friend" who gives the heroin addict his heroin in order to avoid conflict.

Part of the purpose of exposure is to end the affair, but the main purpose is to lift the fog. Keeping it a secret only serves to enable to FOG, which in turn, fuels the fantasy aspect of the affair. Exposing the affair ruins the fantasy and helps the WS see herself in a realistic perspective.


By keeping it a secret for her [enabling] you ensure that no light is ever shone on the fantasy which only serves to fuel the affair in her mind. That will make it much harder for her stay away in the future.

Secondly, the pledge of an addict is to "quit in 2 weeks" is nothing but a way to prolong the addiction and get you off her back. The word of an addict is meaningless.

All that has happened here is that she has successfully manipulated you. That is the wrong message to send to a WS.

You are harming your marriage by NOT exposing the affair, Humble. You are still enabling the affair.

Okay everyone, listen up. I am not a stupid man. I have an MA in Psych and although I understand the system here and am impressed with it, it is not a cookie cutter. It is just a system and there are situations that it may not fit neatly onto.

1. I told you I have rock solid intel and I do. I have snooped and I have seen the goodbye letter WW is already drafting to OM. She recognizes that this affair is going nowhere and she wants it to end. She recognizes that her being in love with a MM is ridiculous and unhealthy and she knows that he will never leave his wife and if he does it will not result in a long-term relationship. Has she committed 100% back to our marriage? No. But I simply don't think that's possible right now until she goes through withdrawal.

2. We really did have problems before this happened. What part of "I emotionally abused her" do you not understand? Do you understand that yes, she is revising our marital history and making it worse than it was, but it is not all revision. If I send out this letter calling out her flaws to our family and friends and do not address my own I will not be showing integrity and the message will not hit home for her. It will just make her think I have not changed, which ruins Plan A. I need to show integrity by owning my past behavior - not by calling out her faults to the world and glossing over what I did! That is why I included my own faults in the letter. Also, she needs to feel like this life is inviting to come back to. Do you understand how humiliating it makes her feel to come back to me if everyone knows she was both emotionally abused and cheated on me? But we can't reveal one without the other. We are in a difficult situation here. That is why we both recognized for our marriage to work we really don't want to share either problem with the world. Many marriages have secret difficulties they have gotten through and have only shared with each other.

3. I have no intention of waffling anymore, so stop. I was a train wreck before, but I am getting better by the day. I am giving her the two weeks she asked for and no more. As of that day, I expect her goodbye letter to go out and all contact to be cut off. I am taking extreme measures to ensure NC and I have all the intel in place I need to know if it is being adhered to or not. There will be no pictures, old messages, re-reading old love letters, etc. this time. She WANTS to get over this man - that is not only from what she tells me, it is in her journal in her private thoughts. She knows she has to let go of this. I know this is not the ideal NC letter, but the first goal is to disrupt the affair, right? The remorse, commitment, etc. can come after withdrawal. I am doing what the site suggests - my first goal is to use every means at my disposal to attack and end the affair while at the same time not doing irreversible damage to our relationship. If she breaks NC or he does I will fully expose and will stop funding the affair (cut off internet, etc.)

4. Poeple do not like to be forced or coerced into things, especially if they feel like their husband has coerced them for 17 years. It is much better when they feel like they have done something on their own, their own way. My individual counselor agrees with this and so do I. Part of why she let go of her morals and did this was to throw off my controlling behavior and be selfish - to do what she wanted and flip me the bird. Your tactics work in a "normal" relationship, but in mine I really need to be careful not to clamp down on her so hard and be so controlling. I really believe it will lead to a better recovery if I let her feel like she is choosing this and I am helping her, rather than her feeling like she is being forced. She wants to end the affair, but she wants to do it in her own way. The tactic I am taking right now makes her speed it up, which she is furious about, but it still lets her end it the way she was going to anyway - on her own terms. She ALREADY HAS HER REASONS TO END THE AFFAIR - IT WAS DYING A NATURAL DEATH ANYWAY AND SHE CLEARLY SEES THAT.

Sorry, but me re-learning how to stand up for myself to my wife means re-learning how to stand up for myself to everyone too. I have given you all the impression that I am a fool. I am not. The situation is complicated and I am not afraid to stand up to her anymore, I just recognize the complications and am adjusting the program as I need to.

Hi, I am not a frequent poster here but read EVERY day. I am a former BS/WW so I see both sides of the fence. I won't make this post about me, but I do want to ask a question and a few statements.

I have read and kept up with your post. I understand that you are trying your best to allow your wife to end the affair on her own and without making a mess of what may be left of your marriage.

Even if she ends the affair on her own, it dies a natural death, or you even give her a deadline and she ends the affair... the exposure is to ensure that it does not pick back up in a few weeks, months, or even years. The OMW could be one of your biggest assests in ensuring that this does not happen. If she does not know, then she can't help you by putting pressure on the OM.

As said many times, affairs thrive on secrecy. Once they are brought out in the open most die immediate deaths. So, the exposure is the most powerful tool a BS has to give your marriage a chance to survive.

Does that make sense at all?

One other thing, I and most other WW/WH will tell you that if something nuclear had not happened such as exposure of the affair, it would be much easier to let the dust settle, let things get back to normal, and then ease back into life as we had it. FALSE RECOVERY is not fun!

Normally if something doesn't happen...MAJOR.......it will blow over as no big deal.

What I saw wasn't that she feels the "power shifting". Waywards don't think like that. They are only concerned about their next hit off the crackpipe. She is changing her game and adapting to yours. Obviously, she figured it out since she got two more weeks of contact.

Allowing more contact just allows the affair partners to get more entrenched in the affair....more fantasy...more fog...

Part of the process of withdrawal and recommiting to the M for your WW is letting go of the fantasy. By continually reinforcing this idea of hers that she can have her M but also have her fantasy world with OM, she is going to be even more reluctant to give it up.

Remember the part earlier when I told you that we can predict better than you can what your WW will do/say? Guess what's going to happen in two weeks when her time is up? She will do whatever she can to get you to give her some more time. If that doesn't work, she will break NC. When you catch her, she will cry and beg & plead for another chance, say things to make you feel guilty...and guess what? Another prediction. You will not want to expose then either.

You need to look at the big picture. The message you want to give her is...This A endangers our M and our family and I won't tolerate it for one more minute.

This plan of yours won't work. It's not a question of IF she will break NC but WHEN. Why?? Because you have not exposed.

I remember a poster - a betrayed husband - who actually allowed his wife to go on an 'affair breakup weekend' with the OM (in other words, a supposedly final boinkfest). Well, that poster never came back to these boards, that I know of, since that happened. Wonder why . . . .

Giving her 2 weeks to 'end it' means giving WW and OM time to figure out how to drive the affair further underground.

Expose.

What if? What if there is some way that your wife knows you are watching her and she is �drafting� this letter with all the right words as a ploy? Does that change anything? How do you know FOR SURE that this is not the case.

No one is asking you to call out her FLAWS to anyone. Asking for help to end the affair and admitting your own flaws is a preemptory (honest) strike.

How does helping her hide her sin make her a better person/wife? Of course she�ll be ashamed. What she is doing is shameful. What�s that old saying? We can choose our sin but not the consequence?

You are NOT using every means at your disposal to attack and end the affair if you�re not exposing. Of course she will be embarrassed, shamed, po�d�with good reason. Her dirty little secret will be out, OMW will finally know the truth, and it won't be as easy to snow everyone as it has been to snow only you.

You�re not understanding that this will not DAMAGE your relationship, it will STRENGTHEN it, especially once she is through withdrawal and realizes that her husband, her man, thought enough of her to fight for her.

Exposing is not YOU forcing or coercing her to end the affair, it will be the RESULT of the exposure that does that. She�ll either cave and do the right thing or become very angry and feel even more entitled to her selfishness.

I hate to tell you this, but your wife is a garden-variety wayward and she�s going to see anything you do to fight the affair as controlling. Your relationship (better read marriage) is no different from the 1000s that have come through here suffering at the hands of adultery. Her reasons for adultery, whatever they are, are purely selfish. If you were such a BAD controlling husband, why didn�t she just leave and divorce you like a decent person would do? Instead she chose to show you the ultimate disrespect by cheating on you AND allowing you to continue on supporting her in the ways a husband supports a wife.

But go ahead and do it your way.

Good luck to you.

Humbled, how many marriages have you saved?

These people aren't stupid, either. Your marriage is no different. They've seen it before. And they've helped save marriages worse off than yours.

Listen.

OH BROTHER!!

Humble I didn't even FINISH reading that post, want to know why? because you are a fogged up BS, and I HATE reading posts where the BS is so fogged up and can't even see what he needs to do to fix his marriage.

You think sending a NC letter, and waiting two more weeks to make her decision to end her relationship really going to work?

Oh yes, no doubt that it will work for about...let's say 6 months! (maybe 2 months! That's how long it lasted for me)

Then you will be back on these forums asking for help AGAIN because she either...

A.) got back in contact with the OM.

OR

B.) Found someone else to have an affair.

We are not forcing you to expose, what we are doing is telling you exactly WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF YOU DON'T EXPOSE!

You can take our advice and save your marriage...

OR

You can argue with those who's been here for 10 years helping countless marriages (including mine).

Sorry to be harsh, the reason why is because my husband never exposed my first affair, two months later I found someone else.

No matter what....YOU Will HAVE to expose, rather SOONER then later to save from all the heart ache you will get.

By the way, a lot of us have come here thinking our situation is unique and different and so we can cherry pick the program. So that line of thought is not new, either. And it won't work.

All of this just translates to = I am afraid to expose.

We see it again and again and again. The affair doesn't end without exposure. Good luck to you!

And the marriage won't recover with out an exposure...

This is so, so true. It took me a while to get this. Learn from my mistake. I only partially exposed because I did it before I found MB, but even the partial exposure helped to end the EA. A better job would have prevented numerous false recoveries.

Follow the advice - expose now. 2 weeks is utterly ridiculous.

Yes, and Dr Harley has a PhD in psychology and a long successful track record of saving marriages. Your best thinking screwed up your marriage, on the other hand.

So when you cite credentials, lets look at your track record versus Dr Harley's, shall we? You are essentially the fat person who says they know more about weight loss than the person who has successfully lost weight. Is that rational?

And no, it is not cookie cutter, [whatever that means] but you can't possibly defend your enabling of this affair. It has not worked and we can all see the results with our own eyes. We can defend exposure and point to the hundreds of marriages that have been saved using these tactics.

Anyway, we have given your our best advice. You can take it or leave it. You are the one who has to live with the result, not us. We have saved our marriages.

I wish you the best.

Moving on...........

Last time I checked affairs occur in over 60% of marriages. There are what, 50 million+ marriages in the US? So that's like, 30 million marriages with affairs. And last time I checked, the vast majority of affairs do NOT end in divorce.

So tell me, have you saved 15 million+ marriages here? No? How many then, thousands? Then I am guessing there must be other ways to save a marriage from an affair too, or else the only salvaged marriages out there would be former MB plan workers. That does not mean I don't find value here and appreciate the advice, because I do, and I'm not too proud to admit that I need it. But I have been watching these forums for some time, and I have seen many people follow the plan and expose, etc., and am watching many of their marriages fall apart and their spouses leave. So the plan is not foolproof.

Note: my WW has no idea I am watching. She thinks she has me under her thumb, as do you. You are all sadly mistaken. Last time they broke NC they did it in the same venue (FB) as before. I have never revealed any evidence to her so she does not even know there is a source.

Observation: you don't know me. I did waffle before and learned from it. I was weak from the tremendous guilt I felt following my realization of my past bad behavior in therapy. At that time I would have done anything to make it up to her, even something unhealthy (like this). I understand now that I have to move past my guilt and see this all for what it is.

I am not exposing now NOT because of what my WW says or what you say. I am doing it because I THINK FOR MYSELF. I need to factor in everything I know about our marriage, about me, about her, etc. Why would I finally wake up and not let my WW tell me what to do and then just turn around and blindly follow everything you are telling me? I really like and appreciate all the advice I get here but I will continue to THINK FOR MYSELF and will not be bullied or have my intelligence insulted to get me to follow your advice. I will take your advice and follow it if I feel it makes sense. You shouldn't want anything more from me than that.

Prediction: you don't know me. My WW IS learning from this experience every day and I can see that in what she DOES and says in front of me and even more from what she DOES and says when she thinks I am not there watching. I will give her this two weeks. I predict she will do what she says. We will see who is right. Did I mention that she has never been the one to re-initiate contact? She has pressured me, lashed out, gotten mad at me, but she has never broken NC on her own. OM has, both times. And she has been too weak to resist when he has - I admit that. Why? Because she is still in the fog. And why? Because last time she kept all his messages, pictures, videos, journal, etc. and re-read them and re-read them and watched his FB page. From day one this time she has said she knows when she ends it it needs to be 100% and she needs to let go of all of it. This came directly from her - I never even suggested it. Also...this time I am putting extraordinary precautions in place for him to not be able to reach her. Plain and simple. She needs time to go through withdrawal and then re-connect with me. I understand she will be weak until that happens. The whole point is to break the fog. Then we will work on protecting our M in the future.

point --> Saved my marriage!!

This is where I stopped reading, does it piss of the WS when the BS exposes? YES!

Do they Leave? Most likely

BUT THE BIG OL DEAL ABOUT EXPOSING is letting the fog lift from their selfish little eyes! Letting them SEE the reality on that they are doing.

Guess what I did when wheels exposed me....

I got pissed, angry, threatened him, punched him (couple times) and cried....all at the same time!

Did I leave? OF COURSE I DID! WE ALL LEAVE, when that happens, want to know why? Because we are EMBARRASSED!!

Did the fog started to lift from my selfish eyes? Yes it did, it only took a few day's but I was still gone for 10 day's.

Do other WS leave longer? YES THEY DO! Some leave for 2 weeks, some leave for 2 months, and some leave for 2 years!! But the conclusion on ALL of that is.....

THEY ALWAYS COME BACK!!!

Because the fog lifted, and they are now seeing how stupid they acted. [size:11pt][/size]

So no matter how long it takes for that WS comes back to the marriage, in the end they always do. If they don't....then that means that BS is WAY BETTER OFF with out that person in their life!!

If she is serious about it, SHE will be the one to suggest and put EPs in place, not you.

Custer had a better plan at Little Big Horn. This plan is a huge deduct in your respect points from your WW.

They like it when you're weak and adultery enabling but they love a man they can respect and has the courage to all out fight for them.

I'll check back in two weeks.