I want to add something....get a notebook and document EVERYTHING! Dates, times, events, EVERYTHING. Document her leaving the marital home and her children, when she is home or not home, the amount of time she spends one on one with the children. I say this to protect you JUST IN CASE....she decides to go the D route (which I highly doubt will happen). If you have to fight for full custody of the kids then that information will come in handy. You think you will remember, but in six months you will look back and realize you are in a bit of a fog yourself!

How is she paying for her plane ticket to leave? I personally would not allow her to use "our money" to leave. If she does leave, I would cut off access to "our money". I'm honestly not sure that is what others would recommend but I think the tougher it can be while she is gone.....the better it will be.

Take care of yourself, be the best dad you can be, and when you have the opportunity, be the best husband you can be.

All good advice, itsamess. I don't think she has any plans on following through with a D, either. Humble, you said yourself that you are a logical thinker. Think about this: you took away her drug, and she's enraged. What would be her most logical response? To hit you back. How's she going to do that? Not by sitting quietly on the couch and letting your words of wisdom sink in, no way. That wouldn't be hitting back, would it? Nope - her most logical move at this point would be to hit you back by talking divorce.

Actually, when you look at it, googling divorce info online a GOOD thing. It gives her a chance to blow off steam by feeling like she's doing something. The worst thing would have been for her to pack an overnight bag and walk out without a backwards glance.

I agree - as long as she is angry she is ENGAGED in the marriage. She is in it - in some form or another.

It is often said the opposite of love isn't hate - it is apathy. As long as she is angry you got a good chance of turning her around. That is why it is SO crucial that you do a STELLAR Plan A. Be loving, and caring. Plan things with the family and invite her. Be pleasant to be around. Really you shouldn't be doing much relationship talk at all - there isn't much to say at this point.

Also - of the 3 stages of marriage - Intimacy, Conflict, and Withdrawal - Conflict is a pretty good spot to be in. Easier to get to Intimacy if you're in Conflict. MUCH harder if she is in Withdrawal from YOU.

So don't let your discussions degenerate into fights. Play the broken record game and be a model husband. Show her that YOU can give her the love she needs.

Done.

Nope - I know that for sure. She only mentioned that because we both have degrees in Psych and when this all started I gave her some literature on affair addiction and withdrawal. Sad - didn't seem to matter.

Wow, lot to report. Might take a post or two.

This morning - Some insanity and rage came out! WW told me she left last night because if she didn't she was going to stab me or do something stupid. She told me she wants to stab me in the face and was trying to think of ways to poison me or murder me, and then she would go to jail and the kids would be orphans and it would be all my fault. I told her I was sorry she felt that way

She was still jonesing for a fix, but I shut that down twice. Told her I was done with "OMW's husband" in my life and didn't want to talk about him anymore.

Then at work I had an amazing moment. Not sure if it was five minutes of her coming out of the fog or what but it was nice while it lasted. She sent me a letter my mom sent her ripping her a new one and then called me on the phone. No anger, she was crying. She sounded like the old DW for a moment. She asked me to read the letter and then told me how my SIL had also been disgusted with her, and she asked me, "Is this really what everyone thinks of me?" It seemed like their tough love got through the fog for a moment (?) Anyway, I let me front down for a minute and said "Well, I know it seems harsh but I think there's some truth in there. Reading it is making me step back and look at you from the outside too - maybe I've been too close before to see some things. I do know that they love you and are trying to help you." And I left it at that.

Was that okay?

More on today. OM and OMW still holding strong (Yay!) OM and OMW have EP in place and he has agreed to tell her the minute my WW tries to make contact. Saw that my WW went on FB today and made a fake account because he had blocked her old one. Now she is spying on him (I told you she was obsessive - he has fully rejected her and she WILL NOT accept it. She has been arguing vehemently with her family that he really LOVES her.)

Should I block her from FB?

Told OMW about WW trying to fly out there and stay with SIL. She thanked me and has a CHOKEHOLD on OM. Then she wrote my WW two huge NASTY messages and went ballistic on her - I am LOVING OMW - she is AWESOME! She says all the things to my WW I would want to say but I don't have to be the "enemy" I really see why now the OMW is my best ally in this

Also had great talk with SIL who lives near OM. My WW lied, of course. SIL did not offer to fly WW out to stay - WW ASKED to stay (of course) and SIL agreed, but I (BH) would have to pay for plane ticket. Umm...NOPE! Wrong answer.

WW called me today. She is obsessed with stopping OM from finding out about all the lies she told him. She was begging me not to tell OMW the lies! Apparently, my fogged-up WW doesn't want to ruin OM's departing "image" of her. Man, she is confusing to talk to! But I've got some power back now and it feels nice. I wasn't sure how to handle it so I said, "I won't lampoon you out of nowhere, but if she asks, I'll tell you and we can discuss it again." So...if OMW asks, should I tell her the lies?

For now I have this in my pocket, so getting home tonight has been quiet. WW is watching kids and made dinner (hopefully not poisoned ) and is being very quiet but civil. I know she still hates me and is just behaving, but who cares? I am enjoying the quiet. Plus it's nice to feel in control a little bit.

You are doing just great!!

You very much should compare notes with the OMW and rectify all the lies. Your wife wants to protect her image so she can LEAVE THE DOOR OPEN. You must expose all of her lies and tell your wife. This will effectively slam the door on any lingering fantasy of your wife's. Don't agree to hide her lies! that only harms her and your marriage.

Helping her continue to maintain that fantasy and deceive the OM is ENABLING. And enabling is always bad.


See, she was so protected by you in her fantasy that she is in shock at how others view her. This was particularly evidenced by the fact that she emailed the OMW to "explain" her feelings. She didn't grasp how inappropriate this was because she didn't understand how sleazy and inappropriate her affair is.

This is the beauty of exposure. Exposure is to bring a crowd of onlookers into the crack house to watch the crackheads get high. It is no fun to get high when everyone is watching with disgust and horror on their face!!

And bravo to your mother!!

You are so right. And yes, her fantasy lasted DAY TO NIGHT. I see that now, and my mom's letter to her and observations really hit me too. My DW had always been a sweet, wonderful woman, but even then she had an attitude of entitlement - that she should simply expect a big nice house in the suburbs, nice cars, vacations, spending money, beautiful kids and family, great husband, and yet never have to achieve any of those things herself (instead, meet a guy like me who would provide them while she stays at home or works little odd jobs that she enjoys).

I have been spoiling her rotten for 17 years and have delivered on EVERY SINGLE one of these things. And yet she has never really appreciated the life or marriage she has - EVER - that is an ongoing problem for her. And my mom called her out on that. And worse now, because I went through my personal therapy and issues during the affair, I got so guilt-riddled that I MADE IT WORSE by taking the blame for the state of our marriage and feeling like I deserved the abuse she was heaping on me. Stupid, stupid, stupid. I see now how unhealthy that was.

So...how do I work my wife out of this sense of entitlement now? You are so right - it is making her fog insanely thick. Not sure if it is time yet, but I started today. When I read my mom's letter I told my wife it was "making me re-look at her from the outside" to which she seemed a little frightened. Also, later, when the OMW went ballistic on her she actually had the nerve to ask me to write OMW and explain what a rotten husband I was so she (WW) wouldn't look "crazy"! I said, "Umm...NO." I told her I didn't and wouldn't lie about my shortcomings if asked but I wasn't going to air our dirty laundry, unless she would like me to air all of it and share all of her doozies from over the years with everyone. Guess what her response was to that? "Forget it then."

You are all so right - God I love my DW but I created a monster! Help - how do I set it straight now? All in one shot or little by little? Is now (Day 2 withdrawal) the right time?

Okay all, you were right. It's been 48 hours and the rage seems to have died down. The best way I can describe my WW's mood all night would be...sulky, pouting, defeated. Definitely defeated. She seems SO confused by the truckloads of crap everyone she knows is giving her over the way she is behaving. She has been quiet but COMPLETELY civil all night, and she made a few odd comments:

When I asked her if she would like me to watch the kids because she's been with them all day, she said, "No I haven't - I haven't watched them like I should all day. I'll do it."

When I asked her if she'd like me to give them their bath, she said, "No. I don't have a life - I'm not that busy."

The best exchange of all?

WW: "Why is it that everyone doesn't care that you emotionally abused me? Shouldn't that be equal with what I did? Did you downplay it when you told them?"

Me: "Why don't you ask them that when you talk to them?" (she has been avoiding them and has been GREATLY exaggerating the way I mistreated her when she does talk)

WW: "I did. They all just blew it off and ripped ME a new one. I don't get why - do they not think what you did is that bad?"

Me: "No. They know it was a problem in our marriage that we needed to work on, and they know that I did. But they also know it is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for what you did to me and the kids."

And I left it at that. I am watching her and the wheels are spinning in there...she has a lot on her mind and is certainly not focused on what a jerk I AM today...

Is this a glimmer of my DW trying to come to her senses?

Hey humbled. One of the problems I see is that you really don't want the old wife back. She was spoiled, entitled, ungrateful, lazy and manipulative. What exactly about those qualities are attractive to you? The truth is, you should be the one talking to her about whether you want her back. Or if you should divorce her. I am not saying to end your marriage. But if you take her back the way she is/was after her betrayal, what reason does she have to change? That is why it wouldn't be so bad if she went to see the SIL. In essence, once there you go NC with her. You force her to work on her side of the marriage, instead of you doing all the heavy lifting. I do believe in the Harley's methods. But to restore things the way they were b4, is that your goal?

I mean for her to tell you things, like she would want to stab you or poison you. Does that seem like someone who is worth or deserving of your love and commitment? She says she doesn't have a life. When in fact she had a great life. She just didn't appreciate it... She is like a child. A child that has a toy or a pet (her life) that she doesn't want or care for anymore. What do you do with a child that acts that way? You take it away from her.

For instance regarding access to your finances. The finances you provide her are part of "her" life. Well she has told you that her life sucks. So why would you give her something from her old life that she was so unhappy with? Your provision was part of your love and commitment to her. She doesn't appreciate it. How about the house she lives in? Or the car she drives? In reality she needs a complete mental readjustment. In truth she needs an "Its a wonderful life" wake up call. If she doesn't have it. What exactly makes you think that she won't simply find some other guy to fill her "perceived" emotional needs. In other words she has to want a better life with you then she had when she was drawn into her sanctioned affair.

There is another movie I would highly recommend. Its called "The painted veil". It may trigger you somewhat. But it would give you a different perspective as well.

Your wife needs a boot camp, but her boot camp should be you driving her to a podunk town, setting her up in a low rent motel. Then getting her a job at a fast food restaurant or even at the motel cleaning rooms. She should have to experience a life that was hand to mouth. No support. Barely subsiding. It could be one of the greatest gifts you give her. The chance to really think about the wonderful life she is throwing away.

Again. Its not about punishment or revenge. Its about teaching her to appreciate her life with you. About her wanting to crawl into your lap at the end of the day when you come home, telling you how much she missed you all day. Sharing with you all the things the kids did. About bringing back (or maybe introducing her to) the joy her life really is. Just a few thoughts.

Yes, let her get through withdrawal.

For right now, I just want to re-emphasize what Mel was saying in the earlier post about not enabling the waywardness. I don't know that I would be willing to discuss OM or OMW with her anymore (except to tell her that you've told them the truth about all her lies)...

When it is time to move into the Recovery phase, you will sit your WW down and let her know that YOU will be willing to forgive her and stay in the M but that it will be conditional. When the WS knows that the BS will stay in the M at all costs, their motivation to change is lowered and they sometimes stay foggy...or just don't do what is necessary to really recover the M.

So you will want to keep the bar high for recovery, requiring coaching from the Harleys for example. Maybe even have her post/read here. Have you read Harley's Requirements for Recovery? Don't worry about having this talk with her just yet but it's coming and you will get more help from posters about your "conditions".

You are really doing a great job. Hang in there.

Heck, yeah, Humbled! Things are moving along in typical withdrawal fashion at the Humbled House. I'll caution you, though - keep an eye on her. Your WW may attempt to contact OM again while she's going through this. Waywards do not like the sudden reality when they're first coming out of the fog. It's like having to get out of bed on a cold morning when you're all warm and cozy under the covers. You want to burrow under the covers for just a little longer, you know?

I can't advise you to do anything differently than you're doing it now. Keep it up - you're doing great! We'll be directing new posters to your thread when they balk at exposure, so they see how important it is.

I hear what you are saying. No one is perfect. And yes, entitled and ungrateful are true. She was never lazy - she does not shy away from hard work, but more like...unambitious? Not motivated? She wants things but doesn't enact plans to get them. And my DW really wasn't manipulative. The family is in shock for the same reason I am - she was a gentle, sweet, nice, giving person. Her flaws are that she was spoiled as a child and her parents didn't set too many boundaries for her, but my DW truly has a good, good heart. I do want my DW back, but yes - I want her to grow up and be more appreciative.


I have already thought of how those conversations will go when we are in the right place. And our families are already pointing those things out to her now.


I know it is insane, but my DW has never said anything remotely CLOSE to that to me in 17 years. I believe when everyone says it is my WW talking and she is DEEP in the fog. My DW cups bugs and takes them outside because she can't even bear to see an ant killed.


Yes, see above. Very good observation.


I get that, but it might not be necessary. I didn't give my WW all these things immediately in our marriage - she knows what it is like to be poor, because we were for years. She worked crap jobs back then. She remembers, and does not want to give up what we have now and go back to that. She feels like she worked hard to get to this place, but to be honest what she really did was 'endured'. I am the one who got us to this place, and that is exactly what people are pointing out to her now.

The other reason her thinking was so crazy with entitlement is because she had convinced herself somehow that if she left me that support would still be there - that it didn't go with me. She also convinced herself that I'd still be her friend because we would co-parent, she'd still have me "in her life", have me there to talk to, show her unconditional love and affection, compliment her, desire her, and even felt like we'd still hang out and sleep together once in ahile basically when she felt like it. Like I said, complete entitlement and assuming she could cheat on me, leave me, and I would still be there to meet literally all her needs on demand. And I am at fault for part of that, because I always told her I would love her unconditionally forever and that she would always be the love of my life. That I would help her get on her feet if we ever divorced. I have spent the last few weeks correcting that perception, and our conversations about divorce money are doing wonders to correct it too.

The best part is that when WW cried to my SIL about how I wouldn't pay for a D, her own S told her to keep watching the kids during the day and get a night job. We're getting there.

I will, but man, the OMW is taking care of that! You should have seen her emails to my WW - they were great! She maade it clear in no uncertain terms to stay away from her H, and also made it clear that he has already deleted every trace of my WW from his life and has voluntarily told her the one time my WW tried to contact him. She told her clearly that he does not WANT to talk to my WW anymore.

Nice! I am loving OMW (and let your mom know that she's aces, too! Good job with the letter, Mom! )

YES!
"Betty's husband" .... every time. NEVER his name.
A mini reality check. EVERY time.
And, isn't it wonderful that "Betty" can play the "bad cop" role to your "good cop" !
God bless her.

How are the kiddos holding up?
Any Labor Day plans?

Kids are super-fine-tuned into Mom vs Dad tension.
And, truth be told, your WW was distracted from their needs for quite awhile.
WW's make lousy Moms.
The WW mom tends to feel resentment and gets a little bristled when something mundane, like a child's needs, interrupts her fantasy train.

I'm just saying, keep an eye on your kids.
They will be fine, but just pay attention.

My OTHER concern, at this juncture, is that WW is currently vulnerable to another internet-born EA.
If anything appears suspicious to you, shut it down immediately and permanently.
It is not unusual for a wacky WW in withdrawal to choose a different fantasy object. NOT saying your WW will do this, just be aware.

Now, the praise.

GREAT JOB !!!

My sentiments exactly.

Thanks, all. I am watching her like a HAWK on the internet. But I doubt that will happen - my wife has always been the person who obsesses or latches on to one person at a time. I think a million Hollywood starlets are attractive. She has been infatuated with Ben Affleck for like, ten years. It's just the way she is

As for the internet, the OM blocked his FB so NO ONE who isn't his friend can see ANYTHING. So when I checked her "fake" profile on FB, she still couldn't see squat. COLD TURKEY!

She hasn't even logged on the internet in the last 24 hours. That is like, a record for her since this began.

Oh yeah, and she informed me she was being civil and nice in front of the kids now but once they're asleep didn't want to talk to me like "everything's okay". I think she is using them as an excuse to get comfort from me. Whatever.

She also hasn't mentioned D in 24 hours. I'm waiting for the next wave on the rolloer coaster.....