Last night went ok.

We talked briefly. But it was calm and there was no anger so that was good.

He slept in another room but just him being there made me feel better.
Than this morning I was in the kitchen making some breakfast and he comes out of the guest room we exchanged goodmornings and I asked if he'd like some toast. Then he comes up behind me and hugs me. Doesn't say anything. It felt really nice. I'm trying not to get my hopes up. I didn't say anything I just hugged him back. Then we went on with the rest of the morning.

One thing I asked him to do last night was to let me know what he is doing. For the past month I have had no idea if he was coming home staying out or whatever. And I didn't want to be a nag by asking. But I think it made things worse because I didn't know. He seemed ok with this arangement. I can't force him to come home but if he atleast tells me that he isn't coming I know.

We have a long way to go and I dont know for sure that the path we are on is one that leads to a happy life together. But for now I feel a little better and maybe I can start meeting his emotional needs when he is around. At the sane time though I think I should leave him alone and give him space.

What would you hope to accomplish with this? Create more distance? That whole 'absence makes the heart grow fonder' quip is a bunch of baloney. Have you finished the LBQ?

Have you made a plan for eliminating LBs?

What is your ultimate goal? If it is to have a loving, intimate marriage, then I'd like to warn you about setting up a 'married single' situation. There is no reason to tolerate not knowing if or when your husband is going to return home. Be cautious of falling into the 'this marriage at any cost' trap that people can get into when they are so desperate to save the relationship.

Your husband may simply not be marriage material, as has been mentioned.

What's your plan?

Many people here (myself included) have had success with a plan like this:

1. Eliminate LBs.
2. Meet ENs.
3. Refuse to settle for less than a loving, intimate marriage.

Telling your spouse, "Hey, you know, that doesn't work for me," is not nagging. It's giving them vital information. Be very very wary of giving false information ('I'm okay with you staying out all night if you'd just let me know'---if you're truly not, and who would be???) in a desperate attempt to lure him home. Be nice, be alluring, but be HONEST. If he's hurting you, it's okay to let him know that.

Space is what got you in to this mess.

He doesn't need space.

He needs to know:
That you can be a good wife who will meet his needs.
That you won't try to hurt him by love busting.
What your expectations are for your marriage (a buyer's agreement).

So - you demonstrate that you can be a good wife to him, and let him know what marriage looks like to you - and invite him to join you.

You make yourself pleasant to be around, and loving. You don't NAG - you just inform him of your wants and desires. It isn't a Love Buster to tell him the truth of your hopes and desires for the future - that's marriage.

I get the feeling he has no clue what marriage is.

At the same time - you MUST be snooping. Look into his cell records, if he gets on your computer at all a keylogger would be a good idea. It is VERY probably he is seeing one, if not more, girls on the side - that's what a Secret Second Life enables him to do. Staying at friends house, not contacting you, not coming home - that is a Secret Second Life and it is VERY dangerous, not just to your marriage, but to your health.

I would recommend caution if you decide to sleep with him. He is not acting in a trustworthy way, and you trust him with your health at your own risk. He could be sleeping around and bringing who knows what to you. I know you love him and want to trust him - but he ISN'T trustworthy.

I don't know what to do anymore.

Yesterday I asked him if he wanted me to pick something up for him. It was a beer I knew he would like that you can't get everywhere and they had it at a place by my work. He said yes he wanted it and then said that he wasn't sure when he would be home. This is typical lately so I figured he was meeting his wok friends for drinks and would be home after. Well I picked it up and went home. Before I started getting myself dinner I texted him he didn't say he was eating dinner so I thought I would see if he wanted something to eat. You know trying to meet an emotional need of fixing dinner. He said he was eating out. I was a little upset. I'm trying not to let it get to me. I know you all are thinking affair. He did come home last night but not till I was already in bed. I heard him come in as I wasn't asleep yet. I went downstairs and talked to him briefly. He was pleasant then I went to bed.
This morning he had light conversation agian. We are supposed to be going somewhere tomorrow with my family and some friends. I asked him what time he wanted to leave. I assumed we were still going since he hasn't told me otherwise. He said I don't care. But it was weird. I said well I'll just say noon and left it at that. He didn't say anything else. He left for work and so did I.

I Don't know if I should confront him agian. Or continue to meet his needs and try to be a good wife. I still don't think it's an affair but I am confused by the way he is acting.

Oh, I'm sure it is an affair. I'd snoop, and hire a PI if necessary.


An emotional need is something that creates feelings of love within you for someone else. An emotional need is something that makes him fall in love with you. Fixing dinner is probably NOT an EN unless DS is at the tippy top of his list.

Focus on his REAL emotional needs - what it was that caused him to fall in love with you in the first place.

If Sexual Fulfillment and Attractive Spouse are high on his list, make sure you always look your best and flirt with him when you can (I'd be VERY careful if you have sex with him). Recreational Companionship is probably up there, too. Why can't you offer to join him next time he goes for a drink? Let him know you miss spending time with him.


He is your husband. His actions affect you. That is how marriage works. You have to get over this fear of being honest with him because you think it will chase him away. THIS is what I was talking about when a living together situation creates a Renter's agreement which in turn damages your marriage.

You're still thinking like a Renter: "don't tell him he hurt me so that he doesn't get upset and leave"

The buyer attitude realizes "his independent behavior will erode my love for him, so I MUST tell him how this hurt me, so he knows what he is doing."

You should TELL him when he's hurt you.

A simply - "Oh, I was looking forward to dinner with you. Kind of disappointed I'm missing out. Miss you."

If you want a marriage to work you have to realize your silence HURTS your marriage. Your silence has CREATED part of this mess you are now in. Time to open up and be honest about your thoughts, feelings, and expectations.


I would work to make this outing as pleasant and enjoyable as possible. Look your best, flirt with your hubby, be fun and caring. This is a great Plan A opportunity.


Confront him with what - don't confront him if you think he's in an affair. It's pointless. Snoop and gather evidence, then expose his behavior - not to him, to everyone else.

Try to be a good wife, and at the same time be honest about your needs and feelings. I'd avoid serious conversation talk, just state what you feel, when you feel it.

Honestly - you feel confused because you are drifting without a plan. I'd seriously move this thread to the Surviving an Affair board, Read up on Plan A and snoop to find out who he's having an affair with then create a Plan to save your marriage.

Yeah, you don't confront over suspicion of an affair. You get evidence, and then just state it--to everyone in his life.

Please at least let us know that you've snooped his phone. Can you get a hold of the phone, or the records?

I have told him he has hurt me. He knows it. He told me he needed space to work thing out. I've been giving him space. But I'm at the point now I feel like things should start getting better. Or atleast he should want to be at home with me not out.

I mean to confront him about my feelings not an affair. I still don't think it's an affair. But since you all seemed convinced I am starting to wonder.

I cant get to his phone its locked but I can see the records.

Problem is I don't want to snoop. And I don't think I'll find anything.

Do you want to save your marriage or not?

Do you only want to do the things you really want to do, are you only willing to go 'so far' to save your marriage? Then say so! Say it: I only want to save my marriage if it means I only have to do the things I am already comfortable with. I am not willing to go beyond my comfort zone for my marriage.

Why would you bother with



if



this is true? I mean why waste the breath?

He KNOWS he's hurting you. He DOESN'T CARE. He doesn't care to change his life enough to STOP hurting you. YOU are not important to him. This marriage isn't important to him.

This is the result of marrying someone under a renter's agreement.

You CAN try to fix this, but it will be tough and take a large toll on you emotionally.

It will REQUIRE snooping and EXPOSING.

You up for that?


Well then, sign the divorce papers and move on.

Seriously.

You have one vision of marriage - your 'husband' has a completely different one - one that's more like casual dating.

He lives a completely separate life independent from you, one you have enabled and are scared of demanding end - and it MUST end if you actually want to have a Marriage.

But this second life enables him to be out with as many women as he pleases. If SF is high on his list of needs, and he isn't getting it regularly from you AND he's out partying at bars and sleeping who knows where - yeah...he's cheating.

You cannot FIX this marriage, you can't even BEGIN until you rule out the possibility of other women.

Fix yourself all you want, there's no point. As long as he's getting needs met on the side he will never willingly commit to acting like a married man.

What is the point of being married if you won't do what it takes to fix it?

I suggest that rather than continue to torture yourself with this man, and since you have no desire to do the actual hard work marriage takes - you file for divorce and spend a few years figuring out what marriage actually IS before you decide to go and shack up with someone else.

I want to save my marriage and I am willing to do whatever it takes but he would be mad if he found out. It may be a step I have to take anyway but what if I don't find anything?

He didn't used to go out every night without me. This has only been since things got bad between us.

What if I simply ask him. What is marriage to you? I thought I knew what he thought but I can get his opinion and use that to build a plan. If he doesn't want to be married than Like you said what's the point in being married.

I want to be married to someone who wants to be married to me and yes right now that is not the case. But a couple months ago he wanted to be married we had some issues but he still came home he invited me to go out with him every time. We spent most of our time together. And 6 months ago we were a happy couple.

So what if he's mad.

Hon - right now you don't even have the shadow of a marriage. Really you are limping along on your last legs - and you can limp like this for YEARS wasting your life on his neglect.

You need a CHANGE.

The pattern you two have established for your marriage has nearly destroyed it.

Honestly, the way you describe the relationship, if he IS cheating, I'd advise you to walk away and sort yourself out. There is VERY VERY little to keep him in this marriage. There are no children - and you've only been married 2 1/2 years.

Children and a long history together provide incentive to remain in the marriage. You have neither of those.

You've married someone who doesn't believe he should have to put forth any effort in maintaining your marriage, and your behavior has REINFORCED that belief.

Recovery from an affair - IF the incentive you provide is good enough to convince him it is WORTH staying with no kids and not much history and a low level of commitment to begin with - will take 2-5 years and will require him to RADICALLY change his lifestyle. No more goin' to bars, no more nights away, no more partying without you.

2-5 YEARS - more than the time you've been married.

All that being said - if you think it worth it, the path to fix this is VERY narrow.

Step 1 is remove the possibility of other women - and I would bet you there ARE other women. You SNOOP to find out. You are his WIFE, not an acquaintance or girlfriend - his WIFE. EVERY act of his affects you and as such, you have a RIGHT to know if he's playing Russian Roulette with your life and health. So he'll be angry - so what! If your marriage has the foundation to survive this - it will get over his anger. His having OW will ensure the DEATH of your marriage as you will NEVER be able to have a good marriage while he has an OW. So SNOOP if you're really willing to 'do whatever it takes'

Step 2 - when you find evidence of an affair, plan on EXPOSING it to EVERYONE: his parents, siblings, friends, YOUR parents, siblings, friends, the OWS parents, sibling and friends. EVERY DARN PERSON UNDER THE SUN must know what it is he is doing - to provide accountability and ensure his behavior stops. Exposure, like snooping, is non-negotiable.

Step 3 - this is done in conjunction with the above: PLAN A. This demonstrates a willingness and ability to meet your husband's needs and be an ideal wife. This will take its toll on you emotionally. A prolonged Plan A can cause you to develop Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Plan A should last a few weeks MAXIMUM.

Step 4 - Plan B. If Plan A doesn't shock him back to you - you go Plan B for your own protection. This involves COMPLETE no contact with your husband. No speaking, no texting, no emails NOTHING. You cut him off completely.

This may not make a lot of sense to you - but these are tried and true tools to END an affair. Realize that you stand a good chance of losing your husband DESPITE all this because there is little that hold him in this marriage.

So - you ready to start? You ready to do what it takes?

THIS is what makes me think he's found someone else. There is a new, better, funner, less stressful point of comparison. Someone who's bed head is still cute - someone who's laundry and dishes he doesn't have to clean up - someone that doesn't bring with it the baggage of every day life.

Whatever plan you make - whatever words he says in this conversation are MEANINGLESS if he has another woman. He may tell you he wants to work on it - and he may REALLY mean it - your efforts will FAIL if there is another woman.

A conversation isn't going to fix this.

ACTION will fix this.

This question is, imho, for good times, not bad. In our worst times, my H said that marriage is where each of us pursue our own interests and have separate friends, and oh btw, the mom (ME) also has to take care of the kids and home (24hr job) while the dad (HE) takes care of the finances (8-12hr job). Sounds fair and FUN, eh?

It took a major smackdown on my part and a willingness to BE LEFT to turn my marriage around, and you don't have the leverage I did. My leverage was, "You want out? Fine, go, but you're getting physical custody of the children. You want a divorce? Fine, get it, you're getting custody of the children." Takes a whole lot of fun out of the 'single life' dream when you realize that you're WILLINGLY SINGLE for NO DANG REASON with FOUR KIDS.

You don't have that leverage. I do think you should cut and run.

So he just said he's going out to dinner and won't be back till late. What do I do now? I can't force him to come home. And I have an opportunity to spend time with him tomorrow. I don't want to blow that. I don't want to fight either. Or take some extreme measure like following him.

You won't take extreme measures for your marriage?

Well - I laid out pretty clearly what you need to do to save this marriage.

You're pretty clear (for someone who'll 'do anything') about what you WON'T do. What will you do?

Honestly - I'd look into his cell phone. If you have a girlfriend he doesn't know - I'd see if she'd be willing to go to wherever he's going and see who he meets. I'd look into Voice Activated Recorders and buy one today at Best Buy or Radio Shack and then put it in his car while he's asleep. I'd see if I could get into his email. I'd look at the accounts for any unusual spending.


Extreme measures are what this is going to take.

Really, you don't seem to have the desire to commit to extreme measures.

So - what are you WILLING to do? Are you willing to do the steps I outlined above?

Because if you aren't there really isn't much more advice I can give you but to leave.

What - you seem, at best, a Renter.

You are married to someone who is probably a Renter, but more likely a Freeloader.

You need to become a Buyer if you want this to work.