or I feel that these things are too small and not impressive or have a large enough impact as she is soo withdrawn from me

100 small things > 1 big thing.

1 big thing means you thought of her ONCE.

100 small things means you thought of her ONE HUNDRED times.

It doesn't need to be large and impressive, it needs to be consistent.

You want a PERMANENT change, not a quick fix.

You want to CHANGE yourself, not convince your wife that who you are right now is good enough for her - because you aren't - you aren't good for ANYONE right now, because you're too selfish.

I dont like the word selfish as that implies that I gain something for myself. NO I DONT. By not addressing issues I get understandible anger and grief. By not puling my finger out I watch my wife withdraw. I live with constant threats of an ending marriage. I come on here just to be battered.

The fact is im EASY DISTRACTED and LAZY when I dont understand/get or feel confident about what im doing. But even in this I dont gain. If I was being SELFISH instead of working on the marriage I would do something I WANTED to do to gain from it but I just end up watching some rubbish tv, flicking through facebook etc (just basic examples)......

At the end of the day, call me what you want as I know the issue of no forward movement remains regardless of the label.

You are selfish - because your focus is on you and your perception of where you should be in recovery. Your expectations. Your needs and your inability to meet your wife's needs.

Your struggles, your pain, your loss of your family, your wife's criticism. You, You, You.

Selfishness here means a concern for only yourself.


You ARE selfish.

You are only concerned with what YOU will lose. You show little concern for what your wife has LOST.

I have a post about your wife's feelings and thoughts - and you deflect it. Rather than focus on your wife you find the one statement that is a negative, yet accurate description of this situation which YOU have created, and you rush to defend yourself, to deflect, to make yourself the victim.

This is typical for you yllan.

Why was THIS your response?

Why, in a post about your wife - was your first thought and response about you?

How is that NOT selfish?


You do gain something - you get to be the victim. You get to say you tried - and look, your wife just couldn't stop being critical, she just couldn't recover.

ok fair enough i understand and in that case yes I am selfish. I didnt quanitify selfish in the same way as MB as you can see from my post, again I was being practical not emotional. I dont practically gain so im not selfish. Not understanding my wifes feelings - emotional.

I accept your definition of selfish is exactly what I am.



Ok this is easier, the first part of the post was self explainitary especially as we had discussed gestures in the posts above?? The 2nd part we hadnt so I address it??



Yes but I still lose everything which makes the victim plea completely pointless?!?

Intentions mean nothing. Action means EVERYTHING. Brick wall? Sounds like an excuse. To quote Yoda "There is no try, only do". Do something, anything, except make excuses.

Im happy to go into this but everyone including my wife will say im fishing for compliments so lets just say everyday I do roughly 60-70% of housework. Im in control of all finances. I do ALL grocery shopping. I do 98% of school runs (except this week). I do 70% of all meals as wife on diet so I cook for kids and myself. Oh yes and I work fulltime too. And a little bit of sleep in there somewhere too!!



you asked me to reflect on how she appreciated me in the past?? I didnt say all that for fun?? anyway theres still some truth to your statement plus the fact that ive NEVER felt good enough for her in our whole time together (she knows this)

***** removed post *****

Then recognize the efforts you are making are not meeting her EN's and make a change. You still didn't tell me what her top 3 EN's are.

oh sorry minor oversight

1) Affection
2) Conversation
3) Honesty and openness
4) Admiration

Ive included number 4 as I believe it also has a big effect on our daily lives and her actions.

yllanoitomE, you said that you read my post and I've read some of yours, so I may not have the full picture/story, but I would like to add a few comments.
- You note your wife's 4 top needs and by being genuinely open and honest with your wife, that will help meet her need of affection. I know that if you had an emotional/physical affair with someone then you tried to hide/conceal things from her. When caught you probably offered up any number of excuses and ultimately lashed out at her, trying to make it her fault or at the very least destroying her self confidence. So, by being open and honest with her is as big as any gift you could buy. Also, by being open and honest with her, you engage in conversation. It may not be pleasant conversation, but it is conversation that needs to be shared.
In one of your recent posts you mention that you do 70% of this and 98% of that and oh by the way I work full time too and I get a little bit of sleep in there too. To me that sounds like an open and honest conversation needs to take place. You probably feel that since you were at fault, you should just shut up and do this even if you are not happy with the split. If this is the case (and I apologize if I am wrong) have an open and honest conversation with your wife about this. Yes you have a lot of work to do in order to make up for the past and it is going to take a long time, but if you are resentful about the allocation then this will only lead to another slip/another mistake.
The notes on the mirror, the cute emails and small gifts are only token gestures if you are not being open and honest.
I will follow your post and I wish you well. I hope that we are able to help each other and I hope that some of the advice given in our different threads help as well.

Hi there, yes I do follow your thread as we both seem to have trouble forseeing the consequences of our actions at a particular moment of time. This is something im battling internally and some im winning some im losing, but I wont stop until I can control myself fully.

As far as openness and honesty is concerned yes the damage was done through the affair and the actions afterwards up to present day. In terms of H&O physically im happy to do this. The bigger problem is emotionally. My wife has reached such burnt out place that any comments by me about things im not happpy with are met by a brickwall or drive her further into depression so right now its very much put and shut up. ]

I dont mind what im doing currently in our life as my strength has always been ther physical stuff. The problem is how to fit my new responsibilities around my life. Whenever something is expected of me I say ok ill do it but something has to give i.e. housework etc.... this is met by "your game playing". Im kind of shooting myself in the foot by doing so much as it doesnt leave room for anything else without seeming like im load shifting but hey my problem to solve I guess.

I find it hard to instigate convosations when I know im wrong or havent done what I was supposed to. This will obviously change with improvement.

Im coming over to read your thread now

Quick update,

spoke to wife last night as promised, wasnt easy as hadnt achieved much.

However on the slightly positive side. Last night sent wife text while she was at work. Ran her bath when she got home.

This morning brought her breakfast in bed, told her I loved her and wrote a little note and slipped it in her cigarettes (not romantic but know she'll see it lol) saying I loved her and if she brings the note back home she'll get a little pressie. Off to pick up something now as shes only out for about 3 hours.

Thats all folks

second half of yesterday:

Got to shops and bought little bath melt shaped as a cake with hearts on it. Wife got home from work and gave it too her.

Later she told me she had triggered at work; during the affair she was breastfeeding and from all the pain I caused she was unable to produce milk and this really distressed her as she felt a failure as a mother.

Instead of apologising and remembering the information above my answer was very practical which annoyed her greatly. I did turn round and apologise a short while afterwards and show I could remember the situation but the sincerity was lost.

In the evening we went out with our closest friends to a comedy club in leicester square london. We had an absolute blast but to me we didnt seem very close, I was always instigating cuddles and kisses etc...

We didnt get to bed until 3:30am, I still attempted to have the promised convosation with her but she was too tired and said thanks very much for trying but we'll chat tomorrow.

One day (or even two or three) doesn't a good marriage make. You're doing some right things in your last couple of posts. The only problem I see is that you are still in "expectation mode". Forget that for now. Only later, much later down the road will you have the right to expect anything in return. You're doing these things because it's the right thing to do and you want to try and save your marriage. If it doesn't work out, later you can look back with a CLEAR conscience and KNOW that you tried. But for now, the ball is in your court... with NO expectation of winning the game (for now). Heck, at this point you just need to stay IN the game.

I understand the frustration you feel, but you have to stick with it. You have to expect that she isn't going to feel very close to you right now, but if you are consistent in your thoughts and actions, hopefully that will begin to change.

Due to my recent actions, I'm in the same boat as you. I'm doing what I said that I would do, but her response is - that's what you said last time.

I can get easily get frustrated, but then I stop and think about her point of view and I know that she is right, so rather than arguing that it will be different, I say to her that she is right in saying that, but to give me the time to prove that it will be different this time.

Hopefully, the two of us will be given the time and that we will stick with it and realize that there is a lot to lose.

Keep posting.

Yes of course I agree you are right, its just a shame as I was thinking about how much fun and laughter we could have together. I know that she is drained and withdrawn but that directly effects recovery itself as it limits the amount of fun\recreational companionship and imtimacy?!? This is the huge flaw in recovery.

Ok next point is the consistency, as we all know have a huge issue with this. How on earth can I repeat (not exactly but the idea) Saturday (mentioned above) every single day?? Its ridiculous I'd have to be a stay at home parent, whos kids are always neglected and on benefits for money??

A couple of times a week maybe yes no problem but this is expected on a daily basis and "I JUST DONT GET IT"......

Sorry.............

unfortunately I've done this to death and it now wears very very thin.



Time is running out fast my friend and im just not "getting it" (refer to post above).

Unfortunately its looking like im going to be one of the pathetic people who have to lose everything to understand what they had. Or though sadly enough I realise what I have; just dont understand how to keep it and make it happy anymore

This whole situation is just killing me inside. The frustration and anger scares me; although under control 99% of the time, its not healthy at all. I want to spend time with my wife but all the difficult convosations that rule every mintue of our lives just make it sooo draining and makes the void bigger.

Most of the time this really does seem impossible; and the few times I do get something right its not long before an action/thought makes it worthless.

Its not easy as even a simple day like above (Saturday) for my took a lot of time and effort (pathetic but true) and so to see it crushed and dismissed soo effortlessly by my wife over the trigger just kills me even more.

I dont know how I get out of bed some mornings, just feeling soo low now days and tomorrow is the 14th which is wifes descision day (wont be a hard one) and im just soo lost and down.

I try to pick myself up, my wife has just woken up and I offered to bring up breakfast but she just dismissed me. I want to go and talk to her but its just going to be another bashing.

I dont care if anyone thinks im after sympathy im just feeling down and damn right fed up and expressing it.


P.s. have you copyrighted your user name?? Can I borrow it for a while?!?

yllan - I think you need to get the book Love Busters - like YESTERDAY. That should be your new survival guide. You need to read the entire thing, then sit down and read it again.

Your wife is in withdrawal because you've hurt her deeply over the course of the last 2 years.

The answer for a spouse in withdrawal is for the other spouse to coax them into intimacy. The problem is, in order to get there, you gotta take her into conflict with you. You are so terrified that any time conflict arises you see it as a failure, you see it as a setback.

You need to stop operating out of fear.

YOU work to get her out of withdrawal. See you're wanting immediate rewards. You want to do something right and get a pat on the head and a gold star. You don't get rewarded for doing the right thing, you do the right thing, not for the reward, but because it is RIGHT. You are a good husband, not so that you can get a reward, but because you love your wife and want to make her happy.

Yes, it would be nice to get reciprocation. It would be nice to get acknowledgment of your efforts, it'd be nice to be admired and have your needs met. However, your wife is SO in the red, that she is mentally and emotionally UNABLE to do so. She is so hurt, that for her to try, right now, would be unhealthy for her.

So YOU carry the weight here. YOU do the hard work, because your wife can't.

You've done some good things the past few days. However, you are getting discouraged because it's not enough for you - it takes TIME to coax a spouse out of withdrawal. TIME to show her you are safe (because right now you really aren't).

The path to intimacy is through conflict. It is going to get worse before it gets better. Are you up for that? Or will you get discouraged and give up half way?

Right time for an update, apologises for the absence but been spending time with my amazing wife of 10years.

So back to the 14th (Anniversary day) - had been really thinking about our situation and what would be good for everyone all night whilst at work (sorry still 13th now). I knew plan B was right around the corner but I just couldnt turn my back on my family and the woman I love.

I got back really late around 1-2am I think and started a convosation with my wife about things. It was emotional for me as I knew I was losing my family. She was really tired and so decided to sleep on it til morning.

I woke up first and took care of the kids, school runs and housework. Made her breakfast and write a soppy message on FB for her which unbelievablly made my cry actually reading it (first time in years). Woke her up and spent the whole morning and some afternoon cuddled up and talking about the situation and expectations. Found time to have SF twice and was lovely without kids in the house. Pushed for us to plan our UA time for next week which we did (only 11 hours but even thats fantastic for us).

My wife told me she had been listening to MB radio and thought it might be good for me to hear it frist hand. We settled down and listened to a whole show and I really enjoyed it, will definately be using some of our UA time to follow up with the radio shows.

I believe I have a better understanding of what she needs now and so we'll how she finds my new attitude.

Sorted out a kids behaviour chart as we wanted to have it in place for when the kids re-started school but hadnt happened. Unfortunately had to work in the evening but was thinking about wife all evening after the lovely and strangely emotional day we shared together and sent texts to this effect.


Yesterday - Woke up early and organised an ecard to be sent to her email address. Made effort to praise and compliment whenever an opportunity came along. Feeling good and wife responding subtly to my efforts.

Asked her for update if I was understanding her EN's a little better i.e. compliments/SF/praise/affection etc... She said I was doing a much better job and just need to continue with new positive attitude and consistency.