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I've always wondered why folks stick around here when they do not use (or sometimes even agree with) the MB concepts.

There are many other infidelity forums out there ~ why stick around here and complain? Why not go to a forum that doesn't advocate a PROGRAM to deal with infidelity or improving your marriage?

Why disrespect Dr. Harley and all the work he has done?




Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

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Very good questions indeed. laugh


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
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Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
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Newly Betrayed click here


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Originally Posted by MarriedForever
I've always wondered why folks stick around here when they do not use (or sometimes even agree with) the MB concepts.

There are many other infidelity forums out there ~ why stick around here and complain? Why not go to a forum that doesn't advocate a PROGRAM to deal with infidelity or improving your marriage?

Why disrespect Dr. Harley and all the work he has done?

:::waving hand wildly::: Ooo, ooo, pick me! Pick me! laugh

I've wondered that, and here's what I came up with: this site appears to have the best, most solid plan for ending and recovering from an A. I think posters go to other sites and realize that there really isn't help there, just commiseration. And while they need some commiseration, what they really need are tools. They just don't know what those tools are.

Then they make it to this site, battered and bleeding, and we tell them what it's going to take to recover themselves and/or their M. Many times they don't like hearing what we have to say. It sounds counter-intuitive. It sounds scary. It makes even the bravest sometimes say "Isn't there another way?" It requires them to completely change the way they think. They want to be coddled in many cases, because they instinctively realize that they are a victim. Some just can't get out of that victim mode.

You know something else? Tom2010 made an interesting point - that more men than women are unwilling to do the work to kill the A. And I think he's right, at least on the threads I've read. Why do you think that is? (Sorry, MF - don't mean to t/j blush )


D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Interesting question. As this is my fifth year post-d-day, I found myself on your thread and wondering why you asked. I will bite, anyway, and hazard a response. I figure you ask for a reason.

People come here initially because they are in a desparate situation in their marriage. They find this place has a program that has concepts that make sense. While at first some of the ideas that are meant to break up affairs might seem counter-intuitive, the fact is these ideas are things they likely haven't tried - and because these are not in their arsenals and they know their wayward spouses are not expecting these responses, they TRY THEM.

Lo and behold, in many cases they WORK!

And for those who stick with the concepts, for those who really work at the concepts and try to employ them, to understand the nature of the concepts and how they work towards building the marital relationship and bond, the MB program stands a good chance of working, too.

So your question goes to those who come here and end up not liking the program, end up complaining about it, end up not using the concepts, and then going elsewhere instead. Yet, they still kind of hang around here, too?


I would venture that they had some limited success with the parts of the program that they did employ. Maybe there were parts of the MB plans that worked for them, but other parts that did not - perhaps their marriages were too far gone when they got here, or they had a wayward spouse who just was never going to get on board. That happens, and that can leave the betrayed spouse with a sense of failure, and loss. Even with the best program in the world, there will be a percentage of marriages that fail - not for the sake of the BS not trying, but for the reason that the WS has made other choices.

Maybe the BS blames MB for the failure of the program. Maybe the BS blames MB for that, and it isn't the failure of MB, but it could be many reasons: the WS was too far gone, the BS did not employ the program in the manner advised by the Harleys, the WS might have been reluctant to use certain aspects of the MB plan, the WS might have been unresponsive to MB ideas, the WS might have been uncooperative with MB ideas, or just that the relationship was not one that would have been salvageable with or without MB. It happens - and there are probably 1,000 or a million other reasons that could be named.

Ultimately, the poster has made "friends" here. Connections to people on the boards who has sustained him or her through a time in life that is difficult at best, traumatic at least. While they are frustrated with the way the board is run, or with the concepts, or with other posters, the reason they return is perhaps those connections to stories of lives that have touched theirs - in one way or another.

They care about someone here, someone whose story has touched their heart in one way or another. They care about someone who has reached out to them in a time of need.

Coming here has been a mixed blessing. They came in a time of strife, found advice that didn't work for them, but somehow found something else that still attracts them.


And the same thing keeps them going to the "other boards" for help.

They seek answers to the problems of their lives. Even answers that for now they do not appear to agree with. Somehow, someday, those answers might someway meld into the "right" answer - for them.


I, for one, hope that somehow they find it. I hope that whatever they seek, they can find peace wherever it is for them.

Having been through this trauma, I too have searched for that peace. It is often hard to find.

Schoolbus


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
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Most recent D-day Fall 2005
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Originally Posted by schoolbus
Interesting question. As this is my fifth year post-d-day, I found myself on your thread and wondering why you asked. I will bite, anyway, and hazard a response. I figure you ask for a reason.

People come here initially because they are in a desparate situation in their marriage. They find this place has a program that has concepts that make sense. While at first some of the ideas that are meant to break up affairs might seem counter-intuitive, the fact is these ideas are things they likely haven't tried - and because these are not in their arsenals and they know their wayward spouses are not expecting these responses, they TRY THEM.

Lo and behold, in many cases they WORK!

And for those who stick with the concepts, for those who really work at the concepts and try to employ them, to understand the nature of the concepts and how they work towards building the marital relationship and bond, the MB program stands a good chance of working, too.

So your question goes to those who come here and end up not liking the program, end up complaining about it, end up not using the concepts, and then going elsewhere instead. Yet, they still kind of hang around here, too?


I would venture that they had some limited success with the parts of the program that they did employ. Maybe there were parts of the MB plans that worked for them, but other parts that did not - perhaps their marriages were too far gone when they got here, or they had a wayward spouse who just was never going to get on board. That happens, and that can leave the betrayed spouse with a sense of failure, and loss. Even with the best program in the world, there will be a percentage of marriages that fail - not for the sake of the BS not trying, but for the reason that the WS has made other choices.

Maybe the BS blames MB for the failure of the program. Maybe the BS blames MB for that, and it isn't the failure of MB, but it could be many reasons: the WS was too far gone, the BS did not employ the program in the manner advised by the Harleys, the WS might have been reluctant to use certain aspects of the MB plan, the WS might have been unresponsive to MB ideas, the WS might have been uncooperative with MB ideas, or just that the relationship was not one that would have been salvageable with or without MB. It happens - and there are probably 1,000 or a million other reasons that could be named.

Ultimately, the poster has made "friends" here. Connections to people on the boards who has sustained him or her through a time in life that is difficult at best, traumatic at least. While they are frustrated with the way the board is run, or with the concepts, or with other posters, the reason they return is perhaps those connections to stories of lives that have touched theirs - in one way or another.

They care about someone here, someone whose story has touched their heart in one way or another. They care about someone who has reached out to them in a time of need.

Coming here has been a mixed blessing. They came in a time of strife, found advice that didn't work for them, but somehow found something else that still attracts them.


And the same thing keeps them going to the "other boards" for help.

They seek answers to the problems of their lives. Even answers that for now they do not appear to agree with. Somehow, someday, those answers might someway meld into the "right" answer - for them.


I, for one, hope that somehow they find it. I hope that whatever they seek, they can find peace wherever it is for them.

Having been through this trauma, I too have searched for that peace. It is often hard to find.

Schoolbus

SB well said...just want to add kumbaya.


Me 55, XWH 53, M 22 years
D17, D30
alien replaces my husband "I'm not happy" -7/08
Discover OW-8/08 (his direct report and I work there also)
H moves out 10/1/08, confront Ow 10/28/08
Plan B 1/09
D final 12/09

Quote: "First thing you do is pray; when there is nothing else to do, continue to pray."
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Quote
Quote: "When there is nothing else to do, pray."

Interesting quote - I disagree however. Prayer should be the first response not the last resort. JMHO of course.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
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Originally Posted by bigkahuna
Quote
Quote: "When there is nothing else to do, pray."

Interesting quote - I disagree however. Prayer should be the first response not the last resort. JMHO of course.

BK I do agree and just had this conversation with a friend about prayer first. I will be changing my quote.


Me 55, XWH 53, M 22 years
D17, D30
alien replaces my husband "I'm not happy" -7/08
Discover OW-8/08 (his direct report and I work there also)
H moves out 10/1/08, confront Ow 10/28/08
Plan B 1/09
D final 12/09

Quote: "First thing you do is pray; when there is nothing else to do, continue to pray."
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Quote
Having been through this trauma, I too have searched for that peace. It is often hard to find.

Schoolbus

I couldn't agree more!!!!!!


Me:BW
Dday:12/31/09-Found MB 01/03/10
3DstepChildren24&20
PlanA:01/03/10
PlanB:03/25/10
D final 11/15/10

"I dare you to find some time and some place to be silent for longer than usual; a few moments, a few minutes, a few hours. Listen to your heart, listen to your soul; and most importantly, listen to the silence to see what it sounds like and how it speaks to you."
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Bumping in the hopes of getting more replies...thanks to all who have replied so far. smile


Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

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IME, some people are know-it-alls and/or drama queens and/or voyeuristic people who like to see the suffering of others. This forum wouldn't be the first time any of those personalities came out.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
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Wow, that's a loaded question MB. laugh

My theory is that some are determined to prove Dr. H is wrong because that's the way they roll. Some may object to a "cookie-cutter" solution (the way they see it). Some can't handle the truth. Some want to prove that they're smarter and end up looking foolish. Some have been banned and hold a grudge so they come back under an alias to stir up trouble.

Some are much braver behind a screen and pretend to know what works. Some KNOW the truth and are too proud to admit it. Some are envious of people who have recovered. Some are members of TOW. Some are just plain ole trolls. Some are selfish and refuse to acknowledge that there just might be something to MB principles.

How's that for a bunch of assumptions and DJ's? rotflmao


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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Thanks CWMI, one of my theories of why these folks stick around is similar to yours...misery loves company and by golly, if my marriage failed because I didn't properly follow MB then I'm going to stick around and find others who are in the same situation!



Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. smile
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Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Wow, that's a loaded question MB. laugh

My theory is that some are determined to prove Dr. H is wrong because that's the way they roll. Some may object to a "cookie-cutter" solution (the way they see it). Some can't handle the truth. Some want to prove that they're smarter and end up looking foolish. Some have been banned and hold a grudge so they come back under an alias to stir up trouble.

Some are much braver behind a screen and pretend to know what works. Some KNOW the truth and are too proud to admit it. Some are envious of people who have recovered. Some are members of TOW. Some are just plain ole trolls. Some are selfish and refuse to acknowledge that there just might be something to MB principles.

How's that for a bunch of assumptions and DJ's? rotflmao

ITA.


Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. smile
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Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Wow, that's a loaded question MB. laugh

My theory is that some are determined to prove Dr. H is wrong

At Dr. Harley's expense, no less. He does pay for this site, after all. I consider it the height of rudeness to expect him to continue to pay for people to misuse this website. (The intent of the website is to learn the Marriage Builders program.)

Of course, these folks often actually claim they understand Marriage Builders, and it's just certain "personalities" (let's be honest and not beat around the bush: it's MelodyLane, the Wonderings, princessmeggy, Mark1952, and many others, including I hope myself and Prisca) and their own "interpretations" of Marriage Builders, when actually these "personalities" are the only ones accurately presenting the program. But in their minds, the personalities are misrepresenting the program and need to be corrected, even though Dr. Harley makes it clear over and over again what his positions are, and through the management of this site has made it clear by electing to have such troublemakers banned.

It's so abundantly clear that anti-Marriage Builders attitudes aren't going to be tolerated here, but it doesn't stop them.

My favorite idea is the idea that Marriage Builders does not teach that being in love is the point of Marriage Builders. I listened to Joyce Harley say, nearly word for word, "The whole point of Marriage Builders is for you and your spouse to be in love, for a lifetime" on a radio program the other day (I think it was something like the August 30th show; I need to look it up so I can post a link) and thought about that.

But even that won't stop some folks who I am sure will continue to try to prove that Joyce Harley misunderstands the program she and her husband run. Sigh.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Wow, that's a loaded question MB. laugh

My theory is that some are determined to prove Dr. H is wrong because that's the way they roll. Some may object to a "cookie-cutter" solution (the way they see it). Some can't handle the truth. Some want to prove that they're smarter and end up looking foolish. Some have been banned and hold a grudge so they come back under an alias to stir up trouble.

Some are much braver behind a screen and pretend to know what works. Some KNOW the truth and are too proud to admit it. Some are envious of people who have recovered. Some are members of TOW. Some are just plain ole trolls. Some are selfish and refuse to acknowledge that there just might be something to MB principles.

How's that for a bunch of assumptions and DJ's? rotflmao

And what really bugs me is that anybody who thinks they know better can go start their own website if they want. But they resent the fact that this used to be a free-for-all exchange of ideas on marriage where every perspective was equal, they want a community like that, and they feel entitled to the community here. They want to use the community that Dr. Harley built at his expense, rather than doing the hard work of building their own.

They want to get their way at somebody else's expense.

Hmm, as I remember, that's a recipe for a bad marriage. Interesting coincidence.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Thanks for the post, markos...I think I agree with you. wink


Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. smile
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Almost all of the regular commentators on my threads for the first year and a half I was here are now, um, released from the board. I would like to give a shout to those who actually understand MB to please NOT give up on newbies; you leave them with people who don't employ the program or even understand it, and they end up like me, floundering for a very long time until they speak with the actual source of the material.

My marriage now is better than ever.

Before SH, I got very poor advice. Not all of it poor, but a very large percentage of it went all against my understanding of MB. It's very confusing to those trying to grasp and implement.



Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
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MB saved MY marriage...


I've seen it save others as well.

I know it can work when both H & W are doing it.

Mark

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MF, I know you don't want to call anyone out, but I have to wonder if the 'folks' you are curious about either didn't recover their marriages and/or live in marriages that aren't on the road to recovery, but floundering about.

I use MB in my relationship. It works.

It did not save my marriage, but that's not because Dr. Harley's program is flawed, it's because only ONE of us, in my marriage, was following the program...not cherry picking what we were comfortable with.

I agree with SB in that many people connect with others here and this becomes a place for them to go. I also think that anger possibly exists for those who didn't recover their marriages, and it's easy to point the finger at the program instead of taking personal responsibility.


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Divorced April 2009
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Thanks (again) to all of you who've responded.

I wish that people who the thread title addresses would answer. That would be interesting.

CWMI ~ I am sorry that you were initially led astray but am very happy for you that you managed to finally get some true MB advice.

I am one whose M was saved and is definitely thriving thanks to MB and I cannot understand why people would stick around here and not use the program. Completely off my radar.

MB rocks and I thank God every day for this program.


Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. smile
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