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I guess since you're still in Plan A, all you can do is enjoy the good that comes. smile


Enacting life's lessons into positive change... .
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Hi all. Need some advice on some developments. My wife has been talking to me more this last week. I thought maybe it is the reality of school starting and her not being here. Well yesterday after school I went out with friends from teaching. She called me and asked for permission to enter the house and pulled her same old crazy games. I gave her permission. Her iPod died and she wanted to reload it. So 20 minutes later she called back and said it wasn't working. I told her to leave it and I would be home and look at it. I know I was letting her cake eat, but I thought that I was meeting her needs by doing things she wanted and couldn't do. Well anyways I came home 45minutes later and she was still there trying to load it.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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After she was done, she asked me to come outside and talk for a few minutes; it ended up being 2 hours. She actually talked about us and our marriage. She started out telling me why she wouldn't come back and why we couldn't work. How her heart was so hard and she hated me so bad that it wouldn't work. I simply replied I have heard of cases worse than ours that have come out great on the end. I told her that it is not a quick pill and would take lots of time and counseling, both joint and individual to fix us. She then told me she is going to counseling. She wouldn't say who so I don't know if it's the religious one again, but she is going. She said that is why she is here now, because through her IC she realized our problems. I simply told her that with work it could. I will be fine no matter how it turns out, if she comes back or goes. I will continue down the path I am on and will be who I see for myself with or without her. I can still see her massive self esteem problems haunting her. She thinks that I have changed and am now this skinny, happy guy who has become this different person because she left me. That I am happy because she is gone. I explained to her it was because of coming out of the depression, not her leaving. I am this way in spite of her being gone, not because of. Every time she tried to get herself wound up and spin it into a negative I stopped her and pointed it out to her what she was doing. I told her this was the problem. I also told her she was part of the problem for my depression. It felt good to grow a pair. She seems to be honestly thinking about it, or am I reading it wrong. She still has issues, she still can't see her EA as anything more than the innocent, coaching his running. But she does admit that he was there to make her feel good about herself and connect with someone, but doesn't see how that helped end us, because she had already decided to end the marriage and he was there to help her deal with it. Is this some of the fog lifting? Is there reason to hope? I did tell her that I don't want her to move back in the way she is/we are right now that it would just go back to where we were. I told her I would like to start interacting/dating/talking to her to build our feelings back up and go for counseling both JC and IC and see where it goes. That after some time if it doesn't work then at least we gave it a try. Now who knows if she will flip flop again today and interpret it all wrong. Thoughts please.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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Try to get her on the phone with one of the Harleys. I think this would be your best bet to see if this is really what your WW wants or if she is just all talk. Remember, actions speak louder than words.


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Okay so it gets more interesting. Today we found out a friend's daughter from our old home in the Fingerlakes who moved to North Carolina came into town with her boyfriend and wanted to get together. The wife called and asked what was going on and I said we were going to go out for wings and she was welcome to come. She said if I would feel uncomfortable she wouldn't come. I told her it would be fine. She came with the two sons and our friends. It was a pleasant evening. She was nice and she talked to me nicely. She did talk about her apartment and job to our friends, but she came, socialized with me and was pleasant. Is this a step forward?


ME: 48
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Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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Originally Posted by awokenhubby
Is this a step forward?


If she is not moved back home then NO it is not a step forward.

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But I don't want her back yet. Not until we can reconnect and she can get counseling to work on her problems. If she came home now, we would end up right back where we were; me in depression and us with no relationship.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
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D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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sounds like she is still trying to make her mind up but she is scared to go back to what she thinks it will be like. She doesn't believe in herself or you yet, keep showing her the changes in you and keep telling her that you are willing and wanting to work things out with her.........
Enjoy your time together, have fun at this point, make her want to spend time with you......show her she is worth the effort, she needs to believe that, her self esteem will get better when she feels important to you and your children.......
Patience is the key, in the meantime keep an open mind to what life has to offer you.......go out with friends, be happy.........


BW 56
WH 57
Married 25 years, live together for 2, dated 2 years before that.....
DS 23, DS 25
D-Day Nov 23/09
NC Mar 1/10
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Jessi,
That is exactly what I am doing. I am trying to allay her fears of it going back to where we were. I am trying to show her my changes are permanent. At the same time I am going on. I have told her that I really want her back, but not the way we were. I also have told her that if she decides not to, I am fine with that. I like who I am now and where I am headed and I will continue down that road with or without. I told her I would love to make the journey with her, but I am fine either way. I think that shocked her. I also told her for now, that I would like to start "dating" her and give us a chance to reconnect; while we both go for IC to work on our problems. My counselor says I am doing great and we are only meeting once a month. Her issues, especially the self esteem one tha caused all the problems for us is much deeper and needs more work. But only after there is progress on that would I like her to move back and then we truly have a chance at making it work. Her going to counseling is my big deal breaker, without we can never have a great marriage/relationship.


ME: 48
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Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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I think this sounds like a good place to be, on all accounts, you have grown and learned so much during all this, I hope she truly will be able to see this, I know I would love a man who thinks about what he has done and what he is going to do and have the confidence to fix what is wrong.............you truly are a new man......I'm proud of you...........
stay strong and patient......


BW 56
WH 57
Married 25 years, live together for 2, dated 2 years before that.....
DS 23, DS 25
D-Day Nov 23/09
NC Mar 1/10
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Originally Posted by awokenhubby
Is this a step forward?

Well, it isn't a step backwards by my way of looking at it! But you can't make a judgment on what will happen based on it. Remember, waywards can't be counted on. Until she has a complete change of heart and is willing to do everything she needs to do to save the marriage, until she is completely remorseful and is willing to learn new ways, nothing is changed.


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KC,
Hence the reason I don't want her to move back in until I can see the change in her. I know that it is tough to make it work if we are not under one roof, but in this case, I think it is better. Until I can see her commitment to making changes and wanting to make our marriage work and adhere to the MB principals, I don't want to set myself and us up for failure and to be hurt again.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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I totally understand. Being as it's already gotten this far, I would want to make sure changes were in place before giving it another chance. Normally they don't recommend separating because it's harder to do a Plan A when the other person isn't around to see it, and also because a lot of the time the WW sees the separation as an opportunity to cake eat and see OM.


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Okay, I haven't posted in a while because there has been no developments. But now there is. We had some problems with my older son. My younger son and I were at the gym and she texted his phone (I don't take mine) and told him I have to call her. I did and she said the OS was at her place and we needed to have a family conference right now and I had to stop my workout. I almost told her she is not part of the family and can't call a conference, but it was about our son so I went. While discussing our son's problem, she bashed me 8 times. I finally got up and said I don't have to take this any more. I also told her point blank that her bashing/trashing me is what drove me into my depression. I also told her that she told people that I thought every thing was fine in our marriage, but I knew it sucked but because of her behavior I could do nothing about it. I told her that since she left I have really examined our marriage and told her of the problems she created. She stopped, paused, and told me I was right and apologized. I still walked out.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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She then later texted me and said that what I said was true and it hurt, but she wants to go to my next counseling session with me to talk about it. Since that night/text (Mon. night) we have talked and had real conversations that were personal but not about marriage. We have talked at least 5 times since then and she is calling my cell phone, not the house phone. I have called the counselor and told him that my IC was going to be JC. He asked why and I told him. It will be interesting. It felt good to have a pair and finally tell her the truth instead of trying to spare her feelings. Is this progress? I know that some say that as long as she is not home, then this is not progress. But as I said before, until she works on her issues I don't want her home as it won't work.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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BTW, she is going to counseling to work on her issues. When I called her out about going to see a religious one again, she told me it wasn't the same one and this one has a MS in social work. I simply replied that her last religious counselor worked so well to save the marriage. Later that evening, she texted me and said that she has called and made arrangements to see a real counseling center and has stopped seeing the religious one because I objected. I think she is really trying to work on her issues. I don't know if it's for us to have a chance, or for her to move on, but it is something she never would have done a month ago. Sorry for three long posts, but thought from the experts out there? Thanks as always for the expert advice and shoulder. You all have made this so bearable and given me focus and direction and comfort. If this ever works it's because of this site. If it doesn't I will be fine because of the help I got here!


ME: 48
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Years Married: 21
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D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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awokenhubby,
good luck at the counseling session, I see some hope in what you wrote in your post, maybe she is starting to see that how she conducts herself has stopped you from being free to fix the problems between you.....
There is a lot to fix before you can think about fixing the marriage, it's hopeful, I'm glad you stood up for yourself and you stopped the behavior that got your marriage to the spot it's in now.....
It's time to change to move forward.......keep talking to each other, listen to each other, this is probably something the two of you haven't been doing.....
Tell her you understand but can't go on any longer the way things were, tell her this is your chance to have a great marriage and learn how to love each other the right way...........


BW 56
WH 57
Married 25 years, live together for 2, dated 2 years before that.....
DS 23, DS 25
D-Day Nov 23/09
NC Mar 1/10
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Can you make a session with the Harleys? because that is what you need. See if she is willing to talk to them.

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Sapphire, If things go well and I don't get blindsided by something she says in the counseling session, that is my next step. I want us to talk to them and let her see that the marriage is truly fixable and can be better than it ever was. I am not sure about her finding my thread and reading it; I was pretty blunt and nasty at times about her in here. If things begin to work, do I show it to her or not. I know with wheels it was/is fantastic the way they are both on here and talk about both sides of the affair and recovery, but I am not sure how she would be; especially until we are fully into recovery.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
Joined: Jun 2008
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Originally Posted by awokenhubby
I simply replied that her last religious counselor worked so well to save the marriage.
Try to avoid sarcasm, which is a DJ. I would say it might be progression...it is good that you are being honest with her, but try to work on keeping heat/emotion out of it and try not to let things build...no one can take ten or twenty years of dumping all at once...it helps to keep it to the present situation at hand.
Good luck with the counseling, let us know how it goes, we'll be rooting for you!


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