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*** This is only for BHs that are being served Divorce papers. If you are in plan A ignore this post and good luck in your marriage. This is only for those that are about to be served Divorce papers.***

I posted this to SOL. I also wanted to post to any other BHs that are fathers that may have been served or are about to be served divorce papers.

One thing I want to advise you on. You do not have to have an attorney to represent your interests in a divorce. With a little research you can represent yourself pro se, and in fact will have more leeway than with just a typical attorney.

If you go pro se your WW's attorney will have to deal w/ you directly. Every motion you file, her atty will have to respond. You can demand a strict 50/50 custody of the kids. You can refuse to negotiate this. PERIOD. Every time you speak with her atty, he will be charging her. No one will represent your interests as well as you can. Her attorney will eventually get frustrated and quit or she will not be able to keep up w/ the cost of responding to the various paperwork.

Yes she may have to be a really bad mother for you to get sole custody, but using that same reasoning, you would have to be a really bad father to be denied 50/50.

Most attorneys discourage this, because it is too difficult to pursue. They just want to file the typical paperwork, that is already formatted on their pc, and be done with it. That is the easy way for them. Attorneys are not your friend. They are ought to make $$$. It is in their interest to do as little as possible on your case. The least effort for the most profit.

I am a FOW. My MM left his W when baby was very young. He represented himself pro se in the divorce. I did all his paperwork for him. I had no legal training, with the exception that I had represented myself for several years on an ongoing CS issue. Most documents you need are online for free. You can copy and paste to suit your needs. When served with the Divorce Petittion, we responded with the Respondent's Answer to Petitioner's Petition For Divorce. It took me all of 20 minutes to do.

When her attorney responded to our response, we re-responded. I had him call atty for anything and everything. This was costing her, not him. In addition, even though he had moved out of mariital home, I made sure he stood firm on the 50/50 issue. Eventually her retainer ran out. Her atty encouraged her to give in on 50/50 issue. She refused.

She then hired a second atty. We continued, with same actions. She eventually went through 3 attorneys. They all gave her the same answer. Each petition or answer he filed was free, it only cost her. In the end, when the Divorce case went to court, there was an agreement signed by both of them that gave MM 50/50.

So if an active MM, who left is marital home when DD was only 2 + months old can end up w/ 50/50, you can too! Don't settle for less.

The odd thing is now I am D from MM, married to a wonderful man, and still am raising the DD I helped him fight so hard to get.

They may say that the person that represents himself has a fool for a lawyer, but I have found it to be very rewarding. There was no ambiguity whatsoever in the 50/50 custody deal, as I created it myself and her atty incorporated it into the Divorce Agreement as MM refused to agree to anything less than what was stipulated in my paperwork. It had times, holidays, school breaks, etc. If you create it yourself, you can make it very specific versus the visitation schedules that are usually created that leave a lot of interpretation and are hard to enforce. In total, his divorce cost him about $16 which I spent on a new ink cartridge for my printer - compare that to the average retainer.

We eventually had a few conflicts over her having child unavailable, this led to us filing and winning a contempt of court charge. She was fined. In addition, the judge eventually signed a self-executing type document that allowed the Sheriff's department to lock her up if she failed to comply w/ the terms of the Court's Order.

Only you can fight the best for you and your children. jmho

P.S. There are a lot of father's rights forums that will walk you through the process of pro se work. They also have attorneys that answer questions for free:)

SPARC forum is one of them. (not sure if it is ok to post another forum here - no harm intended)

P.S.S. Never leave the marital home willingly.


Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it! - my take on the old proverb.

WS
Separated from H 10/15/10 due to an issue regarding parenting issues
Back w/ MM
DD - 16 mine from previous R
DFSD 9 - Raising DD of XMM/XH - She may not be mine biologically, but she is in every way that counts.
2 DS - grown and in the US Marines
H - has no kids.
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Originally Posted by stableatlast
So if an active MM, who left is marital home when DD was only 2 + months old can end up w/ 50/50, you can too! Don't settle for less.

The odd thing is now I am D from MM, married to a wonderful man, and still am raising the DD I helped him fight so hard to get.

They may say that the person that represents himself has a fool for a lawyer, but I have found it to be very rewarding. There was no ambiguity whatsoever in the 50/50 custody deal, as I created it myself and her atty incorporated it into the Divorce Agreement as MM refused to agree to anything less than what was stipulated in my paperwork. It had times, holidays, school breaks, etc. If you create it yourself, you can make it very specific versus the visitation schedules that are usually created that leave a lot of interpretation and are hard to enforce. In total, his divorce cost him about $16 which I spent on a new ink cartridge for my printer - compare that to the average retainer.

Thanks for the heads up, stableatlast, but we have a better plan for scumbag adulterers around here. See, what we do in fault states [and even some no fault states!] is file on grounds of ADULTERY and get the OP subpoenaed and hauled into court to testify under oath about the facts of the affair.

We have had many betrayed husbands and wives alike get much, much MORE than 50/50 and almost always possession of the marital home - sometimes these fathers get child support payments from the mothers.

In fact, in one case, a WW[Eph525's XW] was ordered by the court to get the hell out of her house within 24 hours. It was awesome! Eph525 has primary custody of his children and his WW pays HIM CS! Isnt' that awesome?

So, my message to BH's is to not settle for 50/50! Go for primary and if possible, sue on grounds of adultery and have the cheaters hauled into court to testify under oath AFTER they are forced to turn over all their texts, emails, cell phone records in DISCOVERY!


Why settle for 50/50 with a cheater when it is not in the children's best interest to be stuck with such a crummy parent for so much time? 50/50 sure is not in that child's best interest. I sure wouldn't want to have to vacate my own home half of the time just to accommodate some cheater.

In some states, a BS can even sue the scummy OP for alienation of affection.


Anyway, my advice would be to NOT settle for 50/50! Go for it all! You will be surprised at what can achieve!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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faint




tewjtm/femalesargeant @ TOW


I think you posting (nevermind ADVISING the betrayed) here is appalling and says just how "former" of an OW you are.

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Melody,
That is awesome!!! I agree. Primary custody is the BEST option for BSs. However, I took my post from SOL's thread, as he was advised he would not be able to get custody, etc.

I think fathers should pursue their legal rights at all costs. Sadly it has been my experience that many fathers take their attorney's advice that every other w/e and 1 night a week is all they are going to get.

I just wanted people to know that they can represent themselves in the legal proceedings. It does not take a law degree. There are many resources available to help them navigate through the legal process pro se. And it is a much cheaper option. I have helped many relatives represent themselves in Contempt motions on CS issues. Often times the CSE agency that was representing them (and I use the term representing very loosely in this instance) had done little or nothing to help them recover. They had no idea they could go after AP themselves.

NO ONE will fight for your rights or delay your divorce as much as you yourself can. I stand by that statement. I was only offering a different alternative/right that people may not know that they had. Obviously it would be best if the marriage was recovered and divorce was not filed etc. However, that is not always the case.

wild,
Yes I am a FOW. I have been happily remarried to a wonderful man for almost 5 years now. What exactly in my post did you find objectionable?

Nor have I ever hidden my identity. Vibrissa suggested I change my name and I think it was Pep or ML that suggested I remove the TOW reference and change that to FOW so as not to trigger people. I have been a member of MB for years and I believe all of my posts, even those from years back, will demonstrate that I post honestly and respectfully. I have no ill intent.

Last edited by stableatlast; 09/30/10 05:26 PM.

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it! - my take on the old proverb.

WS
Separated from H 10/15/10 due to an issue regarding parenting issues
Back w/ MM
DD - 16 mine from previous R
DFSD 9 - Raising DD of XMM/XH - She may not be mine biologically, but she is in every way that counts.
2 DS - grown and in the US Marines
H - has no kids.
TOW - femalesargeant
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How did you earn your "f?" simply by a new marriage license with a different man?

Seeing as how you were an OW to a MM, his license and vows to his wife meant very little to you. What do yours mean now?

Now that you are no longer in a R with THAT MM, the fact that you were has no relevance any more and you think you have a right to advise anyone who has been betrayed?

I see it as another desperate attempt from an AP to sweep what they have done under the rug without ever making amends and continuing their lives with no regard to those that have been harmed.

Yes, I checked your posts from previous years. Fog babble and entitlement and much self-apprecation. Just as your recent posts reflect.


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Originally Posted by stableatlast
I am a FOW. My MM left his W when baby was very young. He represented himself pro se in the divorce. I did all his paperwork for him. I had no legal training, with the exception that I had represented myself for several years on an ongoing CS issue. Most documents you need are online for free. You can copy and paste to suit your needs. When served with the Divorce Petittion, we responded with the Respondent's Answer to Petitioner's Petition For Divorce. It took me all of 20 minutes to do.

When her attorney responded to our response, we re-responded. I had him call atty for anything and everything. This was costing her, not him. In addition, even though he had moved out of mariital home, I made sure he stood firm on the 50/50 issue. Eventually her retainer ran out. Her atty encouraged her to give in on 50/50 issue. She refused.

She then hired a second atty. We continued, with same actions. She eventually went through 3 attorneys. They all gave her the same answer. Each petition or answer he filed was free, it only cost her. In the end, when the Divorce case went to court, there was an agreement signed by both of them that gave MM 50/50.

So if an active MM, who left is marital home when DD was only 2 + months old can end up w/ 50/50, you can too! Don't settle for less.
Do I understand this correctly?

You, the immoral person who was an interloper in that marriage, helped the scumbag WS screw his betrayed wife out of every penny that she had to fight for her children? You did that, she lost custody of her children 50% of the time so that they had to live you with and their father in your affair cesspit, and you come here and boast about how well you did? You are proud of your victory and you happily come here and advise BSs to stand up for their rights, as your scumbag OM did?

Do you have any compassion, humility or shame about the woman you so wronged?


BW
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Originally Posted by stableatlast
What exactly in my post did you find objectionable?
I think I have just told you loudly and clearly what I find objectionable, but I can be more explicit if you did not fully understand.

Originally Posted by stableatlast
Nor have I ever hidden my identity. Vibrissa suggested I change my name and I think it was Pep or ML that suggested I remove the TOW reference and change that to FOW so as not to trigger people.
After reading the post from you above, I think they were wrong. You should wear your shameful label prominently for all to see, because there is no F about you.

Not an F that I could write on this board, anyway.



BW
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Originally Posted by SugarCane
[

Originally Posted by stableatlast
Nor have I ever hidden my identity. Vibrissa suggested I change my name and I think it was Pep or ML that suggested I remove the TOW reference and change that to FOW so as not to trigger people.
After reading the post from you above, I think they were wrong. You should wear your shameful label prominently for all to see, because there is no F about you.

sal, that suggestion was made on the premise that you were, in fact, a FORMER wayward so there was no reason to tout such a disgusting, depraved website as TOW. It was not a matter of triggering BS', but of offending decent people. Any decent person will be offended by a website that caters to scumbags and losers who celebrate adultery.

Reading the above post, it seems like you are PROUD of the legal mischief you inflicted on the BS and her children which would indicate a WAYWARD MIND, and certainly not "former
"anything."

I'm sorry now that I suggested you change your name ["TEWJTM" for the ends will justify the means] and remove the reference to TOW because it seems all that still fits.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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And you're still dragging that poor innocent child into the adultery cesspool why???

If you really cared about that darling girl, the last thing you would do was to keep exposing her to the immoral woman who ripped up her parents' marriage. If you had truly changed and repented, and totally repudiated everything you did during that sick and awful time, not only would you not come onto a marriage-building website to flaunt your legal prowess at taking a child away from her cruelly betrayed mother, but you would have nothing further to do with her all your life, because that's what's best for her.

Your words and actions show that you are still motivated by the same selfishness that led you to to give yourself permission to tear up a family.

You can change, if you choose to. You don't have to always be the cheap woman who sold out on all dignity and honor. But YOU will have to take the steps:

1. Take full responsibility for what you did. Accept the shame that fully belongs to you, without trying to shift any onto the disgraceful MM or his tragic BW.
2. Repent, before God and man. Confess your sin to Him, and to anyone else in your life who was affected by it.
3. Go NC with XMM and that poor BW's DD.
4. Learn about A's. Reading here is one very good way to do that. As you see the same story over and over and over, ad nauseum, you will realize that you weren't different. You weren't special. You were just one more dumb OW giving out for free.
5. It's not enough to just tear down the person you were - you have to build a new, healthy, honorable person to take her place. (Hint: God is really good at doing this.) As you learn how you came to gave yourself permission to prostitute yourself and disembowel a family, you will also see what safeguards you need to put into place to have a safe, healthy, and happy marriage now.
6. Don't stop learning. The mindset that led to you being an OW wasn't developed overnight, and it won't leave overnight. Yes, you still have it. It leaks through every word you write.
7. Once you have done all of the above, don't let the past continue to define who you have become. You can never make up for what you did, or atone in any way, but you can be forgiven and new.

My .03 ......


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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What offended me about the original post?

The OTHER WOMAN is now raising the child of the marriage that she participated in destroying.

That child should, by everything under that which is moral, right, correct, and decent


go back to live with her MOMMY

FULL TIME.

That child should not have to bear one more minute of time living with the woman who destroyed her family of origin.

Not. One. More. Minute.


I get PAID to help people learn to REASON, COGITATE, and use RATIONAL THINKING skills to make LOGICAL decisions.

Whoever made THIS decision is badly in need of my services.

I am sitting here shaking my head and gasping for air.


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
Happy.
Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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@MoxieLadies -

Thank you. Reading above I at first started LOL, then sobered mighty quickly.

I know now that beyond a doubt, I will be safe here.

I hereby dub thee MoxieLadies, the women with capes of power:

Lady MelodyLane
Lady wildhorses74
Lady SugarCane
Lady Neak
Lady schoolbus

Thank you again!


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I can't thank you yet, Superman, because I don't know what a MoxieLady is. Is that a compliment?



BW
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Sugarcane, here it is:

[Moxie Lady] A modern-day superhero for the new millennium� our aspiration, by choice, is to use our feminine wiles for good, not evil.

thanks clarkkent! hug


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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That child needs to go back to her REAL MOTHER! What was done to her is no better than kidnapping!

Last edited by Lady_Clueless; 09/30/10 07:52 PM.

"Your actions are so loud that I can't hear a word you're saying!"

BW M 44 yrs to still-foggy but now-faithful WH. What/how I post=my biz. Report any perceived violations to the Mods.
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neak,
1. Take full responsibility for what you did. Accept the shame that fully belongs to you, without trying to shift any onto the disgraceful MM or his tragic BW.

Uh, how have I shifted anything onto MM or his BW. What would you like me to do to take responsibility?

2. Repent, before God and man. Confess your sin to Him, and to anyone else in your life who was affected by it.

I have already done this.

3. Go NC with XMM and that poor BW's DD.

I have ZERO contact w/ XMM. I also have custody of "that poor BW's DD" so I can't exactly go NC with her.

4. Learn about A's. Reading here is one very good way to do that. As you see the same story over and over and over, ad nauseum, you will realize that you weren't different. You weren't special. You were just one more dumb OW giving out for free.

I never said I was different or special, but I am far from dumb. I made choices that I wish I hadn't. I learned from them. I moved on. I now know better, so now I do better.

5. It's not enough to just tear down the person you were - you have to build a new, healthy, honorable person to take her place. (Hint: God is really good at doing this.) As you learn how you came to gave yourself permission to prostitute yourself and disembowel a family, you will also see what safeguards you need to put into place to have a safe, healthy, and happy marriage now.

My M is safeguarded. I have an open R with my H. He is fully aware of my past. We share ZERO secrets. I also am a SAHM now. However, when I was still in the workplace, I took precautions to prevent myself from getting in any situation that my H would not approve of.

6. Don't stop learning. The mindset that led to you being an OW wasn't developed overnight, and it won't leave overnight. Yes, you still have it. It leaks through every word you write.

I am a work in progress as I am sure we all are. I try and learn something new everyday.

7. Once you have done all of the above, don't let the past continue to define who you have become. You can never make up for what you did, or atone in any way, but you can be forgiven and new.

I am forgiven by my God and my children, they are all that matter to me.

schoolbus,
DD's bio mom & dad have both walked out on her. I have custody. She has not seen or spoken to bio dad in over 4 years, even longer for her bio mom.

"go back to live with her MOMMY"

Last I checked they don't allow DDs to go and live w/ mommy in prison. But I guess that is somehow my fault also?


Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it! - my take on the old proverb.

WS
Separated from H 10/15/10 due to an issue regarding parenting issues
Back w/ MM
DD - 16 mine from previous R
DFSD 9 - Raising DD of XMM/XH - She may not be mine biologically, but she is in every way that counts.
2 DS - grown and in the US Marines
H - has no kids.
TOW - femalesargeant
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@SugurCane -

Moxie

What is Moxie?

mox � ie (mok - see)

1. Positive attitude and confidence.
2. The courage to go for it.
3. Energy in everything you do.

Slogans

* MoXie girlz "be true � be you!"
* HAVE U GOT MOXIE?
* what a doll!

Message

Every girl has the strength to do something amazing.
Anything is possible as long as you stay true to yourself
& never give up your dreams!

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Thanks, clark!

Where does this come from? Is this some American invention that nobody told me about?


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Originally Posted by stableatlast
neak,
1. Take full responsibility for what you did. Accept the shame that fully belongs to you, without trying to shift any onto the disgraceful MM or his tragic BW.

Uh, how have I shifted anything onto MM or his BW. What would you like me to do to take responsibility??

How about starting by showing some remorse for the legal persecution you inflicted on the BW on behalf of her husband. It takes my breath away that you would openly and brazenly CROW and BRAG about how you - an OW - screwed over a BW on a forum full of decent, thinking people.

Do you not realize that decent people will naturally be filled with revulsion at the cruel abuse you heaped on this family? Reading your tale is like reading a RAPIST gloat about how he tricked his victim. I don't think you really GRASP what you have done.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by stableatlast
I am forgiven by my God and my children, they are all that matter to me.
What god is that?

Your continued posting here after bragging about bleeding OMW dry in order to take her daughter away is offensive. You should show basic decency and go away.


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Originally Posted by stableatlast
"go back to live with her MOMMY"

Last I checked they don't allow DDs to go and live w/ mommy in prison. But I guess that is somehow my fault also?

could be.... after all the head games you played with the woman from the sounds of it who knows what role you really played in that part of it!! Obviously you have no clue to the ramifications of what you had done can do to a BW with a newborn at home..... NO CLUE!


Truth can stand on it's own two feet....A lie needs support....FRM
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