Hi Tom, Lucky you, it is in the 50s in England! Good suggestion by the way to do that, I think I am just frightened that things aren't going to change, but the truth is they are..baby steps and T&P...

Hello All,

There are a few things I need to get off my chest, write down.....

Firstly, I have a GF I suppose you could consider her my BF but over the last few years our friendship has really declined. If I am honest I find her a bit weird. I still love her and care for her but have kept my distance more and more. She is quite snappy, always wants my 'bad news', can make jealous comments and has done some 'single white female type things'. I always exscused her behaviour for a long time because her father died, and put it down to grief but that as 5 years ago. I suppose this was a period in my life when I had poor boundaries (hence my affair) so never really asserted myself with her.

Anyway, she started sleeping with a married man last summer, they probably have met up about 4/5 times over a 2 year period. They basically hook up if they bump into each other on a night out, or he rings her for a booty call about 1am. Anyway she fell pregnant! She told me when she was 5 months in, bit weird considering I am suppose to be her best friend. I have always made it clear that I was not approving of what was going on, but this became difficult when I started my affair.

Anyway, the married man is a bit close to home, it is my brothers best friend! My brother was best man at their wedding.
Anyway my best friend has had the baby he is 4 months now. She has only just emailed the married man to tell him he has a baby, she has heard nothing back that was 3 weeks ago.

It has really affected my friendship with her. I think she is a bit deluded that this married man is going to leave his wife for her. I feel really appalled, but is it a bit hypocritical of me due to my affair? It really has tainted the way I feel about her, I have always thought she was a bit odd, but to do this feels like the utlimate selfish decision. I really dont want to spend much time in her company.

Sorry I know this is deviating off thread but here seems the right place to get some feedback and don't want to write a new post...

Thank you, Hitch x

Hitch, you know what you need to do.

You are enabling this affair.

No it isn't hypocritical for you to stand up for marriage: you know first hand the damage and devastation infidelity causes. Am I a hypocrite to tell people - I used to live with an ex boyfriend, don't live together before marriage it's a bad idea?

You need to call this poor BW and let her know what her husband is doing to her.

You should have done this long ago, before there was a child involved. Maybe all of this could have been stopped then. Now there is a child who will pay for the bad choices of their parents' and those who knew but kept silent. You're in that second group, Hitch.

No, their bad choices aren't your fault, but you are now an accomplice to this adultery. Everyone who knew and kept the BW in the dark is. Do the right thing now. Call the BW.

Hitch,

What do your boundaries tell you to do? What does your H say you should do? This one is easy, depending on your boundaries.

Has your friend ever acknowledged that what she did was wrong?
Has your friend ever thought about this poor child being reared without a father?
Has your friend ever acknowledged that she has not been that close to you in the last few years?

Think about this and see what your boundaries tell you.

JL

Hello JL

My boundaries tell me that she has been disrespectful to me by:

1. Not being truthful about who the father was and lying to me saying it was someone else.
2. Not tellimng me she was pregnant for a long time and telling other mutual friends that she was scared too because I want a baby. If she knew me well enough which she does I would not be stop being happy for someone else just because it hasn't happened to me.
3. Disrespecting me further by asking me to get the married mans details from my brother, to which I said no!

I think my friend is just starting to think now that this child will not have a father. She does not like the tag of single mum. I askedher what she would do if married man did not respond she said she would continue to email him.

Neither of us have ackowledged we have grown appart but she asks me to meet up slot I prefer to see her with other people as I get less comments. Or if I see her on her own then for a short period of time.

For example, when she found out she was pregnant and she my H and I were having problems and that I longed for a child, she stood in my kitchen and said do you think you and H will ever have children.

I don't know I sometimes get confused as to whether I am over sensitive, my friend is nasty or what?!

To be honest since I have been doing boundary work I feel she constantly disrespects me and I really don't enjoy the time we spend together. This upsets me as I really supported her through her fathers death and the birth of her child.

Glad to see you back JL,

I don't know if this applys to boundaries but Hitch had a question/post about feeling insecure the other day when she asked H about selling something and he reacted.

I thought abou this a couple days hitch and I remebered how much you said you gave him $ and advice on his business in the past.

Now business can't be to bad if he can afford golf weekends, (which he did before your A), and now he can afford to go out and party with whomever, so tension should not be from lack of money.

I think about having money and what i wanted to do with it when I did. I wanted to spend it on my wife and family, to celebrate even the smallest bounty with them first. Before I spent any on myself.

So that it bothered you was probably normal and a understandable reaction to something still being wrong with his prioritys.

His IB was an issue before your A so lets not forget he still has to work on it even though you are in Plan A and consoling him.

Just keeping it real from my viewpoint.

Oh and do you want to be like your old GF? If not don't hang around with her. Tell her why if you want or just avoid her but she is not friend material from what i see. You have enough on your plate.

The company you keep hitch

yes I agree I have enough on my plate without her woes at the moment.

I am soo fed up with this situation with my H. I guess you could say I am having a bad day. Few more things I need to get off my chest...

Met up with my sister yesterday for a coffee and she invited me and DH over for sunday lunch this week along with my other sister and her H. I hesitated and said until we sort our stuff out, we are not really ready to face family members ect.. I am thinking I am and would really enjoy some normality, but DH isn't, and I think he would freak out if I mentioned that, and couldn't do with 3 hours of him feeling uncomfortable it would make me uncomfortable. Then my sister said, I thought you two had sorted things out? I said not really we are getting there, but he is still hurt. Then my sister said, Hitch he has got to come to terms with at some stage, he either commits to the marriage or he doesn't, hes got to deal with it, if he can't forgive you then maybe you have to move on. I said, yes I know. Thing is I make this difficult for myself, as when he went out the other week when I had made H dinner I phoned my sister up the next morning really upset. As far as my family are concerned this has been going on for 18 months and think it has gone on too long. My family are great BTW, they would support my decision 100% regardless of how they felt about DH.

This ones a tough one - I gave my H the Plan B letter on Saturday and he agreed to commit to the marriage. However, I am getting myself all in a stew because we are still in separate rooms, still can't go to family events and still he acts cold towards me. I said to him again this morning, DH I really did mean what was in the letter, then he started to act all childlike and say, can't remember whats in the letter and I threw it away. I said I can reiterate if you like, and then I did, and added that you need to decide what you want to do and that needs to be today, he just turned his back on me. It just makes me mad, he acts like a teenager. Then I get home from work and he is all nice to me. He doesn't communicate with me at all, I don't think it has anything to do with whether he loves me or not and I could Plan A for the next 6 years, I think he is enjoyng having me at home and being able to do what he wants when he wants. All I want is for him to act like he is married again, and I am getting my cystall ball out here and hope I am wrong but I wonder if my H is worrying about his mothers disapproval in our reconciliation. She never liked me when we were dating, when we were enagaged and when we were married and she will probably like me even less after the affair. It was the first 'barrier' he mentioned in us getting back together. I will admit this is a massive LB for me, him needing his mothers approval on all his decisions.

Finally the things I was unhappy about before the A was lack of affection, recreational companionship and domestic support. I feel like I do everything on my own, i do the bills, the cleaning, the shopping blah blah blah. I am sick of hearing myself. I am just tired of doing things alone.

Maybe there are a couple of triggers at the moment. A friend at work has just got married second time around, she tried to work things thrugh with her 1st H but he was justnot playing ball so she left him and a year later met 2nd H. They have just got married she seems very happy.

I am really sorry, I really do love my H, I just want him working with me to build a future.

Hitch, I had a bad feeling about your Plan B letter delivery and the end result. You took him back with little commitment, no action - just words.

Now he knows you don't really mean it - the Plan B letter was meaningless. Not even a week later he doesn't remember what was in it.

He said what he had to to keep you around.

Nothing has changed.

If you're going to go Plan B, the GO PLAN B.

If you're going to Plan A for a while longer, then Plan A with no expectations.

You're hovering in limbo. Pick your plan and STICK TO IT. Nice words from your husband aren't enough. You need to see a PLAN from him to meet your needs and rebuild your marriage. You need a list of EPs from him, a commitment to MB coaching. Not just an "I'll work on the marriage, it'll get better, I promise."



Nothing has changed Hitch. You are where you were last week.

You have him your Plan B letter, he said "sorry, I'll be nice" then promptly forgot it. All you've taught him is he can say a few nice words and keep you around for a while longer.

You can't MAKE him do anything. You can't MAKE him work to build a future with you. Go back to your boundaries. He is violating them. You are ALLOWING him to violate them. When someone does that, you remove yourself from that person.

Hitch,

I don't have much time I am on travel in another country but you said

I am going to say something rather crude and I don't like saying it, but is it really all he or any man needs to do is be "all nice to me" to get you to throw away your boundaries and worse??? I want you to really think about this. A REAL man who loves he W does not do this and a REAL woman has higher standards for her husband.

When are you going to face that you are married to a child who will take and take but pout when they don't get their way?

You really need to think about this.

God Bless,

JL

I agree with Vib and JL.
He threw Plnn B letter away? Is that like "the dog ate my homework"?
Ok, now this was my point and I believe what everyones been pushing towards.

Don't let his childish behavior or the pain experienced from it cause you to do anything to hurt yourself. Other words--Don't let the tradegy twist you. You have heard it before, "two wrongs don't make a right"

Also as to boudaries. Keep healthy ones for yourself, and trust in that when your weak or strong, happy or sad, they are what will protect you. Do not compromise them and they won't compromise you.

So what with plan B? I don't respect how he acts. hear that? how he ACTS. I could respect his golf game, his car, his house, his career accomplishments, but those things are not as important to ME as how a man treats his wife and family. To SOME people those are more important but I don't hang with them or even consider them friend and confidant material. Thier opinions mean little to me because I saw threw them before or thier actions have burned me before even if it was not them personally.

That is kinda how I think you have to consider your husband right now. You know how you felt that you were his Mom before? Well its time he took a trip to the spiritual emotional woodshed. Not because you have lost your temper and want punish him, not even to control him or change him. To protect yourself.

He may never realize why you did it but you do. He might blameshift and spin his own version but you will see thru it. But then what? Can you BOTH seek counsel together? If he refuses to grow will you still continue?

If any woman let me get away with how he treats you I would not respect her either, but I might from time to time let her in and feel sorry for her. That is the difference I see in your H.

Its a tall order but you can take the high road and give him a chance to turn around but he is not being your freind much less a husband IMO. Time to take a stand for yourself and what marrige is supposed to be. The challange is to not break emotionally in any direction whlie you maintain integrity in YOUR actions. Don't get frustrated and give up in anger, don't give yourself to him in a moment of weakness, untill he has become the man you can trust BOTH through his actions and change of heart he can prove to you.

Make a plan with a limit of time on it and the requirments listed before he is out of your life. Keep a cool head and don't go all soft with just a few words from him. Make him deserve you and don't be afraid to pressure him to change.

If he doesn't seize the opportunity..his loss..and hes loses more than you..but thats not your problem. He is not puling his weight here but he IS capable. Are you able to forgive him when he REALLY deserves it?

Hi H7. Sorry to see you here...

Just read a lot of your thread and absorbing. Its at 54 pages =D

These people are dead on. I didnt listen to them for a month and all it did was make things worse. This information, put into practice can litterally change your life. Some perspectives from me:

1) You cannot save your marriage. It is a union of 2 people. You both have to do it. You can shoulder the weight for a time, but doing that will drain your Husbands Account in your Love Bank. The hurt he is causing will cause you to fall out of love with him.

2) Your husbands response to your affair was unacceptable. I wont go so far as to say I think that means your marriage is impossible and your H is a bad person, because I believe everyone can change and be whatever they want if they truly go for it. Your husbands behavior still needs to stop. What he is doing is called (at least around here) "cake eating." He wants his "fun" outside, and you at home taking care of stuff. He is using your guilt as a weapon to shame you into putting up with this.

Is that a loving thing to do?

3) MB principles are the foundation in a healthy marriage. You are being dishonest, hiding the truth from your husband when you dont tell him how his behavior affects you. You are disrespectfully judging him when you tell yourself you dont want ask him that because of what his reaction will be.
You cant know his reaction. You can only know what is the RIGHT thing to do, and do it. Even if you have made a mistake in the past, RIGHT is RIGHT, and you know it =D Learn this stuff and follow it, listen to these posters.

With that said, that doesnt mean you shouldnt protect yourself. Its not a disrespectful judgement to make sure of your safety, for example, having your brother there when you follow through with Plan B, since your H has hit you.

4) Lastly, you seem to be kinda bouncing all over between the steps of Surviving and Recovering from an affair. If you dont go about this right, its not going to work at all. You need to have this as a plan, understand the plan, and execute it. Expose, deliver your conditions of reconciliation, Plan A if you can, have Plan B ready for when you cant continue Plan A, and once that happens, go DARK Plan B. All the other threads I have read, veteran posters suggested the Plan B is only presented to the spouse when you are going INTO it. Not as a threat, not as a "Do this or I will Plan B," but as a "Here, we cant be together until you are committed to working on this." Once he agrees to those conditions of reconciliation, he has to actually DO them. What these people are telling you about boundaries is VERY important. Not just for the health of your marriage, but for you as a person. You do not deserve to be purposely hurt by anyone ever, no matter what you have done. Cruelty is never ok, and what he is doing is cruel. As others have said, your standing for it is only telling him his behavior is acceptable.

I sure hope you can get a good plan, and execute it. Hopefully, you can clearly communicate your boundaries to your husband, follow through on them, while showing him that you are serious about trying to rebuild the marriage. Hopefully, he will see this agree to do his part by stopping his behavior and committing in like manner.

Sending happy thoughts...

P.S. - WAY back on page 2 I think you asked for a BH perspective. I am one, here is my thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2375690&page=1

Caution though, there are insane walls of text, senseless ramblings and so on. One poster said it well (Gamma I think?): seems like guys dont get people to talk to, so I was putting most of it on here as an outlet.

Shameless plug sorry...

Thanks JL. I know all of this, but what can I do about it? The only thing I can do is remove myself from the situation. I have communicated everything to him, and yes there seems to be baby steps in improvement. He has done NOTHING to try and work on the marriage.

I feel paralysed. The problem is as I am growing, it makes him look even more immature. Right now I feel like I am living in a fantasy world and not really facing upto my H behaviour. I feel that I am paralysed by guilt and love.

I have done Plan A and that has given some small improvements, but I fear that the growth my H needs requires something more drastic such as a Plan B.

I think the reality of the situation is my H is never going to be the person I want him to be and I must simply move on.

OK here is where I am and I am shaking. I just had a bust up with my H.

He woke up this morning and I wandered into the kitchen, after listening to him making business calls, laughing and being friendly to people. I was fixing a lamp and this is how the conversation went:

H - Don't take this the wrong way but don't fix the lamp you mess that up and ruin things when you try and fix it.

Me � I said OK, I will let you do it, but can you please stop treating me horribly and critising me?

H - OK but you always make such a mess in the house, you always ruin things.

Me � I said can you give me an example?

H � Yes look at that wine stain on the floor? Why can�t you be more careful you are so clumsy and you break and ruin things all the time.

Me - I said I understand the house is messy at the moment but we have just moved all the stuff in from the other house, and I was waiting until everything is sorted out then I was going to clean it at the weekend.

H - Yes but you are so clumsy and messy and you just ruin things all the time.

Me - I said that is not true I am the one that looks after the house I do all the bills and cleaning. I have asked you to fix the pipe under the sink, for 2 months I have been asking you to do that but I don't shout at you about it. All your clothes are on your bedroom floor but I haven't mentioned it or made a big issue of it.

H � (now shouting and red in the face) I was fine when I lived here on my own it was always tidy!

Me � What do you expect me to do just agree with you all the time and not disagree with things you say about me? Its not like that DH, I won�t just take criticism for the things I don�t think are deserved.

(then he goes into teenager mode)

H � yes you should agree with me all the time, and that�s how it should be from now on.

Me � Well its not going to be like that, I wont allow you to treat me like this.

H - Do you know what I had to do yesterday? Move out all the furniture that you had with OM!! Do you know how I feel today?

Me � I understand it must have been tough and I said I appreciated it, but does that does not give you the right to shout at me and treat me poorly.

H � You ran off with OM, I hate you for that! I will bring it up all the time, can�t you see what you have done and what you did to me?

Me � I accept total responsibility for what happened and I deeply regret it but that does not mean you can treat me poorly. What about Sarah, what about Jane, what about Sam, what about Emma (made up names), when do I get an apology for that? You seem to be doing what I did and justifying your behaviour by my affair? When are you going to take responsibility for your actions?

H � What do you mean, what are you saying?

Me � You need to think about this and work it out for yourself. Will you please stop treating me like you treat your mother and will you stop treating me how your mother treats other people?

H � What do you mean?

Then he got red faced, angry and aggressive and chased me out of the house screaming at me.

H then left for work. About 1 hour later he called me about 10 times non stop. I finally answered and he said Hitch I am really sorry I was out of line this morning. I said you were out of line. I have only just gotten over what you did to me Friday night and now this. He apologised again. I then said to my DH I am going to say something to you and I say this because I love you and care for you not to attack you. You have got to stop treating me how your mother treats other people. He then said please don't make comments about my mother, I said I am am talking about you not your mother, I said do you think the way your mother treats your father is right because that is exactly how you are treating me. I said please think about this. He then said Hitch, please understand how tough it was moving your stuff out of the other house? I said I understand and I thought you were great how you dealt with it. He then added I am also a bit stressed with with work as I have been let down by 2 big suppliers. I said I understand that is stressful but you can't take it out on me like that. You have to communicate with me and just say, Hitch I am finding this hard or Hitch I am stressed about work, and not taking it out on me by criticising me in some other way, I am not a mind reader. I have learnt not to take my PMT out on you and I am trying to manage it through diet and vitamins. He said OK I will try and sort it out.

"Me � Well its not going to be like that, I wont allow you to treat me like this."

Good your setting boundaries.

"H - Do you know what I had to do yesterday? Move out all the furniture that you had with OM!! Do you know how I feel today?"

This furniture should of been moved out by you before your BH moved back home. BH is triggering from carrying out the furniture. As he held each piece in his hands he was wondering what you and OM did on each piece. You should of had the house contents OM proofed before BH moved back in.

Though the furniture was removed you can't remove the rooms from the house that you and the OM had your fun in and place them by the curb for the garbage men to take away with the other trash. This is why the house may be constant source of triggers for your BH forever.

It maybe best to sell this OM love nest/former family home because what has happened there can never be phyically taken out or cleaned away.

A move into a new home free of OM polution along with one too far away for an accidental chance of you or your BH running into the OM will help recovery.

Hitch,
I know you must be feeling very frustrated today about your conversation(fight) with your hubby.....but I think it served a great purpose, you spoke your truth in a way that made your husband sit up and take note, he sort of sounds like he doesn't even realize what he is doing(acting like his mother)
He is stressed and hurt but you are right he has no right to treat you in an inappropriate way.......
Also asking for an apology for his affairs is also good, it shows him that he is hurting you just like you did to him, some kind of revenge/show you kind of thing.....
2 wrongs never make a right, he should know this and apology for his part in making things worse.....
He just doesn't know what to do with all the emotions he is feeling, he has never had to process and finds it all to difficult and just lashes out with no direction.
He needs to think things through, his part, your part and figure out what his long term direction is going to be.....
Then he needs to learn to deal with problems as they come up, calmly, fairly and lovingly........
Tell him that if he needs time to figure out what he really wants then you can just go ahead and continue the Plan B choice so you can save the feelings you have left for him....
Tell him the marriage will only work if both of you can change so both of you are happy......
It's about loving each other and respecting each other, it's not about be in control of the other.......
I think the fight is a good thing.....he seems to be opening up with his thoughts and feelings, that is a start ........and he left thought about how things went and saw that his behavior was inappropriate..........it's all good Hitch.......
My husband and I had some good blow up fights as well, sometimes I wonder how we made it through.......

BTinTrouble

Thanks for taking the time to read through my thread and in particularly my painful ranting...! I agree with all your points and how good the advice is here and how it actually works. My problem is my irrational 'female thinking' (I always love that line from Calamity Jane) that I need to get under control and I have been working on that one. I need to have a plan and stick to it, your totally right.

The Road

You have picked up a really good point and I should have got someone else to move the furniture out, it was something I did without considering his feelings. Although we have had a row, it seems that we have both got some things off our chest.

Jessitaylor

I am in a weird way pleased that we had a fight this morning, its always these opportunities that is good to tell him how I feel ect...It is strange I was chatting to one of H builders this morning, he has worked for him for a long time and knows my H as well as I do. It was just after our fight and I told him that I was upset about the fact he has just shouted at me and criticised me, then the friend said, do you know what Hitch he can be just like his mother is, I have worked round there and his mother shouts at his father and has a go at him all the time. I laughed out loud and didn't want to be disrespectful to H but said maybe. It is like he has been hurt and he is retreating to his mothers behaviour. I hope he listened to what I said this morning, he usually does.

Hello Hitch...

You asked what Mrs.Flint did that helped???

She stopped the conflict.

Look at what you wrote above.

Your H is critical of you why???

Because you criticized HIM...

BY HAVING AN AFFAIR.

You STILL have not shown him what your NEW opinion of him is without wanting him to immediately tell you how horrible his behavior was...

YOU HAVE NOT OFFERED HIM A NEW MARRIAGE WITH A NEW OPINION OF HIM BY GIVING HIM A NEW MARRIAGE.

THAT is why he criticizes YOU with every word out of his mouth.

HE WANTS YOU TO SHOW HIM TODAY AND TOMORROW THAT YOU NO LONGER THINK OF HIM THE SAME WAY.

When you go back to his affair, his mother, his this, his that you are going back to the same old opinion of him.

HE KNOWS THIS!!!

and he is telling you this the only way he has been taught and knows how...

to criticize YOU and everything you do...

whether it's a lamp or the way you fix dinner.

It will never stop until you stop.

YOU must offer him a NEW marriage without the old baggage.

AND you must do it without immediate gratification of his saying how horrible he was when he was being stupid also.

BUT HE WILL...

AFTER you SHOW him that you no longer are doing the same thing by doing the same old tired way...

by using this suggestion:

FOR ONE DAY.

I will be the most loving wife I can be,

I will invite my H to be my lover,

I put more effort into my H than I did any lover I have ever had,

I will act sexier, smell better, dress better, plan a date better than ANY other date I have ever had.

I will leave hints for my H in the morning leaving no doubt WHO I think is the sexiest man in the whole world...

and continue all day and through the night.

It will start in the morning and not end until I am sleeping in my H arms.

It will be backed up by ACTIONS and not just words...

FOR ONE DAY.

YOU TWO ARE IN CONFLICT BECAUSE HE FEELS YOU DO NOT THINK HE IS THE ONE YOU WANT.

UNTIL YOU LEAVE NO DOUBT YOU HAVE NO CHANCE.

YOU LEFT NO DOUBT YOU WANTED THE OM DURING THE AFFAIR.

WHY ARE YOU LETTING YOUR H WONDER WHO YOU WANT NOW???

WHEN HE FEELS YOU HAVE CHOSEN HIM AGAIN YOU WILL SEE PROGRESS.

NOT BEFORE.

WORDS are not enough.

They weren't enough for you with the OM were they?

If you will give him each day ONE MORE DAY of this type of ADMIRATION, RESPECT, LUST and LOVE he WILL start to listen to you again.

But not until you PUT BACK what you have STOLEN from him with your affair.

When your opinion of him shows that you now feel differently about him with ACTIONS he will start to listen to you about his behavior.

Not before.

God bless.

Jim

Ok hitch, now what? You didn't want this kind of relationship when you gat married? Even if you did, now you realized there is a problem with it and he wants to stay in the playpen.

You were supposed to GROW TOGETHER, not become co-dependant to each other.

Change your thoughts ,actions, and your life. if he wants to come too, make him pull his weight and get involved with therapy and MB.

Thats my opinon anyways