what you say sounds good ,and your correct in that its got to be real and not any high school BS. I will call steve make an app ,wait god knows how long and do what he says, I honestly didnt believe him when he said it would over in less than 3 years. Still not convinced it is but as someone said the divorce and commitment scared him off. Thanks all I will keep you posted

Be sure to ask Steve if you should proceed with the D. I mean, if OM left her because she would soon be "free" and would expect marriage, what would he (and she) do if divorce were removed from the table? Reactivate the A because the situation is "stable" again?

This worries me.

Since he has left her, she must go through withdrawal from that 3-year addiction. More rough road ahead. Please talk to Steve. Your decision on how to answer her can wait till then. Heck, you've been waiting for 3 years already! Don't blow it now. JMO...

Recovering your marriage is your call, but look at things this way:

She�s coming to you because OM dumped her. It�s not because she�s come to her senses. It�s not because she suddenly sees the value in your marriage. It�s not because she misses you and left OM. It�s not because she�s suddenly found religion and sees the wrongs in her life she should fix.

She�s coming to you because she�s scared, alone, desperate, and lonely. She�s never been alone, so she feels she needs to have a man in her life. POSOM didn�t work out, so she�s now going to the only other man she�s ever really known.

My advice, since you have no kids, is to have respect for yourself and come to the understanding and realization that you deserve better than this and will not accept someone else�s leftovers and that you WILL NOT be second choice to anyone.

I think you should count your blessings she�s out of your life and find someone who is mentally healthy. This woman is not and you�re young enough to find someone you could still grow old with.

I�ve had people respond with anger to my opinion on marriages without kids, but I stand by it. You deserve better. There�s nothing to save here other than a damsel in distress who feels she must have a man in her life to be complete. You don�t need that. Divorce her and find someone more deserving. No use in crying about fish in the sea. There�s plenty of them at any age.

If you had kids, I�d offer different advice. But you don�t. Start living. You deserve it.

I completely agree w/ Scotland.

I think she is sending the emails because she is afraid of being alone. She is fishing. She wants to see if you will rescue her.

She wrote:
"Life has a way of kicking you in the butt somtimes and my [censored] is black and blue (literally not figurtivley)"

Did she get the literally & figuratively backwards? Did he beat her or did she just mix up the order of those 2 words?

Thing must be a little slow . I called Steves phone today to see when I could get an app. Tomorrow morning at 915 am . I read on here quit some time ago that ww dont come back unless OM dumps them. I do wish I knew why he did this because they broke up once before when he was cheating on her and then they got back together ,I cant see this looser choosing to be alone . I dont want to put any energy into this not knowing if its a permanate thing. I cant believe how much this is starting to bother me. hhmph

isstillgoing...did she contact you again by email today?
Remember that she has not explicitly told you she want to come back. SHe has just vented her frustration with you..which is quite disrespectful. Can you imagine venting to someone who you deeply hurt? WHat are you? her doormat?
Please truly consider asking for a D and moving on...
blessing

I will be talking to steve in the morning, I will let know what he has to say, She did email me again , Telling me she cant sleep for more than 2 hours and cant eat. I would think that going through the same pain they have caused would make them think about what they have done in terms of inflicting pain on a lot of other people but then again mabey not . I havent mailed her back. trying to let the pain do what it should

yes, good choice. Do not email her till you talk to Steve. I am sure Steve will be able to advice you in your best interest.
She will only wake up thru pain, nothing else will do it.
Let her roll in her pain. She said her behind is literally black and blue. He probably dumped her for sure this time.
blessing

Itstill,

I have been thinking alot about your situation, as you can tell it really bothers me. I think it bothers others as well.

I thought about what I would tell you if you were my son and decided I would offer you my thoughts along those lines.

You said that you were finally getting your life together after the devastation of her having the affair and leaving you for the other man. It has taken more than two years for you to get back on your feet. Given that is the case, I strongly urge you to keep on your path. Ignore your W and allow the divorce to go through.

If and I say IF, she finally ends it with OM, IF and I say IF she is alone and seeks some counseling, and IF and I say IF she finally decides she would like a relationship with you, then if I were you I would consider it.

BUT...I would only consider it in the context that it did not mess up the life you are building for yourself now. She IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. No one treats a friend as she has treated you. No, in their right mind has a friend that lies and cheats and steals from them. So let's lose the "friends" thing.

IF and I say IF she does all of the above things and if she really works on establishing a friendship with you after she has gone through all of this, then I say check it out with your eyes wide open.

She has clearly stated that you don't do it for her and she ran off with a young fella. Given no children, given her lack of boundaries or morality, she makes a poor candidate for a friend and worse for a deeper relationship. But, if there is to be a relationship she has to MAKE IT HAPPEN and she has to earn it. I am not saying punish her, I am saying protect yourself and see if she has it in her to do the hard work.

She may, then you will have a new relationship and perhaps it will work. However, she is a long way from that point now. Right now she just wants you to save her and make her feel better until OM comes back or she finds someone that does it for her better than you. Here lack of boundaries and morals makes the decision to hunt for better very for her and until she develops these boundaries and demonstrates some level of morality, stay away from her.

That is what I would tell my own son. It is what I would tell anyone here and it is hopefully advice that you will find useful. I look forward to what SH has to say.

God Bless,

JL

PS: I forgot to mention something I think is very important. Life is a journey and the people that remain in your life journey with you because they want to. You have started a new part of your life journey, it is up to your W soon to be exW, to decide if she wants to journey with you, but to do so, she must change the course of her life considerably. She has not done so at this point.

I agree with JL. i think many of us are really encouraging you to move on with your life. SHE will only continue to hurt you in the state she is in now.
blessing

Trust me I am not interested in more of the same nor will I participate in some of the same .There is certain amount of closuer of the heart and I have had a good deal of that .I wont chance giving that away without guidance from Steve. I honestly didnt think what he said would apply to her affair but it did and I am somewhat astonished by it . So anyway I will take the course he recomends whatever it may be

JL ,I do understand and agree with most (except IC) of what you say. But I want to address something about counseling. In the VAST majority of professional counselors they dont no squat about infidelity and they only help you get divorced . I see a PHD with over 15 years of schooling and a few decades of counsiling under his belt and this is my honest opinion of him . He is a guinious when it comes to treating anxiety.He has actually developed a way that permanently lowers anxiety. He travels the world teaching the technique that he alone has developed over several years. But I must say when the affaire was new he only helped it blossom and even told me that he wouldnt interfear with what was going on (infidelity).He said this late in the game. and IMHO the people in this field have taken this stance because it is very good from a buissiness stand point. I mean really if this profession did all they could to end affairs they would cut there buissiness in half. Most of them think that divorce is a natural evolutionary process that should not be derailed. If I ever again go to couples counseling I will find a therapist who is pro marriage or I wont waste my time and money on this nonscense ,

@itstilgoingon: I'm excited you have a chance to talk with Steve.

I'd say -- and yes, I recognize the irony -- ignore the counsel you're receiving online. While a lot of us have experienced our spouse being in an affair and coming back (or ending the marriage), you are one of the few I've seen who actually has a unique situation. Your wife is expressing a tentative desire to reconcile after THREE YEARS of separation and an active, painful affair to which you responded with Plan A.

That's odd. You definitely need some customized advice from someone who's seen cases like this... the vast majority of we online forum-ites never have. Let us know how your session with Steve goes!

You're wondering about what her emails mean?

Here goes:

I hope this email finds you well. A way of greeting you and trying to make you feel good about her.

If you have taken the inclex im sure you have passed you are amazingly smart(I just graduated nursing school) A compliment to grease you up. I just wanted to apoligize for the last email I sent you I was haveing a rough time in my life and needed to get through a very rough spot. Not an apology. An excuse for writing a really mean thing to you, because she thinks she has the right to do it, because somewhere down the line she thinks that you will accept this from her, and so she "can". She thinks that she should be allowed to say just about anything to you, be as mean as she wants, then say "sorry" later, because in her mind you will always be "friends", so that makes it okay. She thinks saying "sorry" will erase her bad behavior in your mind, and set you up to take it again. I really appreciate you giving me time and space I hope things are well for you. This is a strange way of saying that the last several years have been a learning experience for her, and she is somehow thinks that you "gave" this to her - and that you also believe somehow that this was a MUTUAL AGREEMENT in the giving of "time and space" to her. The tenor of the sentence is relatively cavalier, and although direct, she does not truly believe this. It is meant to be a "skimmer" - something said that you don't really read much into, but later on she would refer back to MANY TIMES, and say that she has said it before and YOU AGREED (by virtue of not debating). If you contact her again, it would be worthy of noting to her that this was NOT a MUTUAL AGREEMENT for "time and space", and that it was NOT YOUR CHOICE that she have an affair.

My life is so upside down right now my head is spining I guess I just needed to hear from you right now. I have realized that the OM is not my friend, nor my go-to guy. You are. I need all the freinds I can get. Please let me know how you are doing. Tell me the state of our relationship. I am unsure of a lot of things right now. I kind of take that back a little, because while I am not with OM, I kind of want to come back, but that might mean I would have to actually OWN all of this. I'm also not ready for that, either, although I do know I have created this mess. Please email back if you can..... I am desperate to hear from you, because in my cake-eating way, I have swung back in this sentence to wanting you again. Hold on, because if I were to write another sentence, it would have swung the other direction, but I hit the "send" button.

I wrote back asked if she was healthy and what was wrong. She then wrote back...

Thanks for writing back Im so sorry for all the pain I have caused you. Apology, but the next sentence is "me, me, me". I guess this coming back to me now in the pain I am felling see, it isn't about YOUR pain yet, is it???? but I will get better oh, she is on herself again just needed a freind I guess and that SHE needs something from YOU .

Life has a way of kicking you in the butt somtimes and my [censored] is black and blue (literally not figurtivley) I believe she got this backward, but it probably speaks to her sense of pain more vividly. Nothing I want to go into right now She does not go into "it" because it would definitely tip her hand to her motivation regarding contact and her needs. I just needed someone to help me get through it. Again, she repeats HER NEEDS. Note that she makes NO CONNECTION whatsoever to your similar situation? I should not have bothered you but thank you. Here, she is fishing for you to tell her that it is okay to contact you for "help" and "comfort". This is going to be my new email address. it can follow me where ever I land ,hopefully on my feet somewhere. This is an attempt to get you to rush to her aid. She is purposely vague, so that you feel a sense of her being in danger, that you will feel compelled to help or rescue her - that you feel a need to respond and ASK what is happening in her life. The reason she doesn't tell you her troubles outright is to lure you into conversation, into helping her, into the rescue mode. Don't fall for it. She MUST CRASH and BURN. I am so scared. trying to get better and I am sure eventually I will. The use of "eventually" here is to let you know that she senses the timeline of the divorce - hinting to you that YOU are running out of time, that the clock is ticking to "rescue" her. Thanks again....


Your wife is attempting to paint herself as the victim in this debacle. She is NOT a victim. She went into this with her eyes open, knew what she was getting, left him, and then WENT BACK. She's no victim. Don't fall for the cries from the wilderness she pretends to call from. It is a ploy to lure you into her drama. My guess? She actively used this type of behavior with the OM, telling him he was "saving her" from her marriage.....now, the shine is off the apple.

I agree with Just Learning (and we are often on the same page!). I wouldn't contact this WW, and would probably let things in the divorce move along on their own course.

If this woman ever wakes up, my guess is that you will be far down along your road of recovery. I wish you well, whichever decision you make. If you decide to try again with her, you have a lot of work to wade through - beginning with her making many changes in the HONESTY DEPARTMENT, followed by dropping her renter attitude.



Schoolbus

Itstill,

You are preaching to the choir about the functional ability of most counselors. I fully understand where you are coming from. I don't know about you but SchoolBus' analysis was phenomenal. I don't know how she does it but she put to words exactly what I sensed from the emails you posted, except that I could never have stated it so precisely. Both sB and I may be wrong, but I think you would be well advised to reread her interpretation of those emails. She is scary good about this stuff.

There is a poster that had a similar story but from your W's side, her name was facing_choices. If you go to my name on this post and click on view posts or something like that, it is on the bottom of the list. You will see a short list of my posts. Then use the search function and search for "facing_choices". You will find her posts. She posted here about 8-9 years ago. Once you find one post, you can track the rest.

Short synopsis is that she had an affair. It lasted 4 years, and it led to a divorce. The affair ended after the divorce and she came here and began to see many things and wanted her old marriage back and her family back. It ended well, but it took her years to accomplish it. AND as SchoolBus pointed out she had lost the victim attitude and understood that she was the problem.

You will find her story enlightening I think.

You sound like a good man and a sensitive man which is why I think many of us worry about her taking advantage of you. I will say I would hope that this works out, but only if YOU end up happy.

Think about it and read facing_choices posts.

God Bless,

JL

PS: Had a "senior moment" the person to look up is Hopeful_person The other person is the reason I first started posting here back in 99. An amazing story in itself but really applicable to you. Look up Hopeful_person, or perhaps it is hopeful_person.

What I read into this is maybe something bad happened with the ema and with her work. Since om now dumped her, she may be in financial straights, worried about money and a safe place to be.

NOT because of love did she email you dude. Not at all. Because of a bit of wayward selfishness. She only emailed you because she sees you as plan B. Not on her "A" list bud.

She is also being faced with a divorce and no chance of security financially right now. Her situation is not good, and you seem to be the sucka.

If it were me, I'd move ahead. I'd make HER do every damn piece of work and show me if she could recover the marriage. Heck I'd divorce her. There is always something called remarriage. But I'd leave the burden on HER, the cheater, to try to see if she can do anything reedeming at all.

Some silly emails from her basically crying on your shoulder that she is sad because she got dumped by the dude who helped her rip up YOUR marriage. I'd not be a bit sympathetic to that.

Oh and ema's DO die within 3 years. After my ex married the ow and it was the 2 year mark of their affairage, he actually tried to confess to me it was not working with her and tried to ask me out. (insert spewing vomit here.) I politely told him I liked my new life now (after 3 years of rebuilding like you are now) and that I didn't date married men.

She is not repentant at all. She is looking for the easiest route to wayward selfishness and if om comes running and snaps his fingers? She'd be back in a ny minute.

Focus on you. Leave the guilt and blame on her, and if she does the work, tell her she has to try. You tell her you don't know what you want, as you're pretty happy now without her, and spent two years rebuilding your life while she was living with and rutting with her man ho pig.

well I talked with Steve today and he has come up with a plan, Something I would never have thought of .I am going to do what he says and put it out there and see how it flies. He does think the OM is probly gone for good . It was just simply a relationship that for the OM had no where to go and OM is probably on to someone else. Steve is really good at this.suprised me again. I will let you know how things shake out . I do appriceate all of you guys and gals input . esp those who said to give steve a call.

itstill
Do you want to share what Steve told you or is it too personal and you do not feel like telling? Or maybe your WW could be lurking this forum?
blessing

could be lurking. but I will post what I can . I really app everyone on here. Steve really knows the wayward mind and how it works and how to use the memememe mindset to bring them into reality

could be lurking. but I will post what I can . I really app everyone on here. Steve really knows the wayward mind and how it works and how to use the memememe mindset to bring them into reality