Aphelion


That is a good definition of a certain type of exit affiar. Another type is when a person feels as if they have to be dependent on someone else for their safety or happiness or whatever and go looking for that person when times get rough with the person they are with at the time.

And neither of those work out very well.

Larry

deep:


How did that conversation go?

Obviously your WH has difficulties with boundaries in life and specifically doesn't appear to have a male honor system that puts family above all else. I wonder if the OW understands this. Likely she doesn't if she is infatuated, but I suggest she probably has secret thoughts she tries to bury in her mind.
___________

Sometimes a challenge to a male's honor system will snap them back to reality and manhood. Sometimes not.

________

I understand how you got where you are. Obviously you have grown as a person, like most people do in life if they try. Although your WH *is* your life, I suggest that you really need to have a life of your own even as you choose to be in a family as part of that life. And one of the best ways of having a life of your own is with boundaries that focus on how you define that family life that provides safety for you and your children. In other words, no matter how you got where you are through bad choices you made at an earlier and vulnerable age, you have since adopted values that are clean and worth having.

As I said to you in an earlier post, once is a mistake, twice or more is a pattern. Allowing him to continue to have his affair while still providing him with emotional and physical support enables his weakness and provides him with no consequences. Telling him to give it up or else, does.

The bottom line is that he had to explain to his kids that he was an ethical wasteland. Now he can either set a good example for his kids through retribution or he can set a bad one by continuing to put himself above all else.

Now you know you got where you are through bad choices. Read carefully PK's post on what she does for a living. You have the opportunity to teach your children all about consequences in life. I suggest you do it. And if you WH chooses to join you, fine. If not, you know what you have to do, not for yourself, but for your kids.

Larry

The call went alright I guess. This call is the second time I've talked to her. The first time I talked to her was the day my WH told her he had told me about the A. She cried, appologized, said she wouldn't see him again etc. (good thing I didn't buy that load of garbage) This call she discovered he'd lied to her about something and was fit to be tied but in the same breath said he would have to come to her and tell her he did not want to see her anymore or she would continue to see him because she likes his company etc. He was too angry at me to catch that but I'm sorry to say that I feel confident he will not tell her anything of the sort or if he does he will renig on it at the drop of a hat. i also tied to tell her how he was but I don't know how much attention she will give to what I had to say.


He is using 'I'm going to her house' as a knife right now I'm trying not to show it hurts but i think I failed miserabally. He tried to do that right after he told the kids ladst night and I told him no way you are not leaving me here with 2 angry teens with the bombshell you just gave them. He didn't go.

I the mean time I find she lives just down the road a piece and her child goes to school with my kids. That was not any fun.

I know i can raise the children myself if I need to but two together makes raising them much easier. They are used to me being around I work hours where I'm usually home when they get home or real close to it.

You said something about challenging his honor...I wouldn't now hwhere to begin on how to do that.

I know what my options are and perhaps the best thing to do would be to walk away, but I'm not prepared to give up my marriage without a decent fight. I just feel like therre is too much here to just waste it.

Thanks

Larry178,

"Another type is when a person feels as if they have to be dependent on someone else for their safety or happiness or whatever and go looking for that person when times get rough with the person they are with at the time."

Larry, that's the operative definition of all affairs. Several professionals/experts have defined the specific subset of all affairs called exit affairs as I noted.


"And neither of those work out very well."

There are perhaps many types/classes/ilk/categories of affairs. None, nada of them work out very well, yes?


Perhaps the type of affair with the best outcome is the revenge affair. Everyone gets exactly what they expect, even OP.

So, Larry, lets start a thread defending, supporting and otherwise mittigating selected revenge affairs. OK?

Okay, I understand your point of view. I would say that you have done a lot of growing during the intervening years and he hasn't. It is what it is. Your husband is obviously a controlling jerk in large part and if you want to have a marriage with him, that is your business and I guess you have your reasons. I am sure he has redeeming qualities, but multiple affairs are a deal buster and not to be tolerated.

If you expect him to reform on his own, I would argue that he is unlikely to change his ways of doing business because you try to keep him on empty. This just enables his affair(s). He might, but I consider it unlikely.

That will not stop me from offering your advice. I will do so from two different directions; one is how you might get him to have at least a dim bulb light up in his brain and two, how you can continue to grow and become your own person.

As a man, I have zero respect for your husband. Real men do not do what your WH is doing, period. Don't let anyone kid you on this score. Real men do not cheat, at least more than once and usually not even once.

Irrespective of how you got where you are, I am not going to line you up against the wall and stone you. I believe that you are doing your best to be a good person and do the right thing. That counts with me.

Okay, leave us get started.

First of all, your husband is not doing the right thing. He is abusing you. He is abusing his OW and the OW's family. He is abusing your children. He obviously does not respect you, his kids or himself. He needs a wake up call. So how do you do that? Well, you do that by educating yourself.

You will not get where you want to go overnight. You will not get where you want to go without educating yourself. You cannot protect your kids and yourself with ignorance, so you gotta learn. I suspect you are ready to do so.

1. Expose the affair. Do so without warning. You have started the process, continue to do so even if you have to buy a billboard.

Here is the nearly complete picture on how to do it;

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rt=all&vc=1

If you have problems with the link, then go to search and type in worthatry as the poster and exposing as the word. Read the whole thread. Do it based on your particular conditions.

2. Go read everything you can about Plan A. Remember, Plan A is both a CARROT and a STICK, with emphasis on STICK. While you are at it, also read about Plan B. Plan A/B has its own forum on this site.

3. Buy Surviving and Affair and His Needs - Her Needs, by Harley. Read them.

4. Read "Reverse Babble" by Orchid:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=019927

Or find a post by her and click on the link.

Knowing how to disarm your husband pull his fangs is extremely important.

Your husband is used to you being a doormat. Stop being a doormat. The OW is obviously so needy she will put up with his bull to get her own fix.

There is NO reset button in life. You don't get what you deserve because you want what you deserve, you get what you deserve because you fight for it. You are where you are because you are where you are. Now you gotta decide where you want to be and go for it. If you can create the conditions where your husband fixes himself, more power to you. If you can't, you still have a responsibility to your kids and yourself to look out for. Certainly where you are not isn't going to work for either you or your kids, period. So do what you gotta do.

See a Lawyer. Get your ducks in a row. Look at your finances. Be prepared for him to move on and make that as painful as possible. Pain is an indication that what a person is doing is not a good thing. Tough love is exactly that, tough.

At all times, your attitude should be: I want a real man as a husband. I have grown over the years and I am not going to put up with your teenage male entitlement. I am not your mom. You can be happy as a real man, father and husband or you can get your happy [censored] on to the next victim. It is time for you to grow up and be a man. Sear that in your brain. This is how you challenge him. You do so with attitude. You do so with expectations.

Your attitude should be: I am not going to share you with anyone. I do not want a three way marriage. You can either keep it in your pants or pay the price. I want you to go for STD testing before I will do anything with you in the sack. I will go do the same thing. I have exposed your happy [censored] because I am fighting for our marriage. You either want to be with me or go from woman to woman trying to find happiness instead of doing the right thing.

You WILL do the right thing or pay the price. In other words, be a man or else. I do hope that your session with your kids was as painful as possible for him. I do note that you made him face them and he didn't want to; that was a very good move.

Remember, Plan A is both a CARROT and a STICK. In my opinion, your WH needs a stick more than he needs a CARROT. As I have said and will continue to say, once is a mistake, twice is a pattern. You are married to a male. If he wants to suck it up and man it up, it will be up to him. You cannot change him.

But you can set up conditions where he will change himself or you will have to learn to live with what he is and expose yourself and your kids to more abuse as it continues, and it certainly will. Or or course, you can let him move on down the road of willing and needy females who think they can change what they see.

The bottom line is that your attitude toward him and your spoken word toward him should be: Do the right thing or else pay the price of doing the wrong thing. I am not going to let you damage your kids or me because you are not man enough to keep your pants on. Then follow through with your promise. He will consider this as a threat, but males understand that threats and promises are different.

Do you?

Larry

Hi again,

Just an update to let you know where things stand.
We are doing better, still living day to day but much better. We are in marriage counseling and that is going well. the counselor is very helpful and insightful.
We have spent a great deal of time together (let the children spend some time with cousins) and have been very open and honest in our talks.
I know we still have a long way to go and the path will not always be smooth but I feel like it ts a good start.
Thank you to everyone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi.

I'm not sure why I am her again perhaps I am here against my better judgement, perhaps because of it, or perhaps in spite of my better judgement.

In all honesty this board is where I have shared much of my life and have gotten much needed help. So whatever my reasoning for being here again is I guess doesn't matter because I'm here.

I feel I have grown much but still have so far to go. I will not recap as it is all here but I will update and ask questions.

Counseling began in June for both of us lasted until early 2008 when I got bluntly honest and he did not like it. He stopped going and I still go ususlly about once a month. Shortly after that I paid off my car, refinanced the house to make the payments easier, and told him we could not keep on like we were and had him sign over property to me so I could have my own house(with my income I could not afford to maintain our current home)
I had him pay the downpayment on my home and when it was ready I moved out of our home (with both of the kids) into my home. The OW became a nonissue but was after all the straw that broke the camels back. We have lived civilly since I moved out with NO physical or sexual contact but we do keep in contact with respect to the children. (At this point I feel I should say we are still legally married and will be for a couple of more years as the cost of getting a divorce is way more than I can do.) He asked me this past spring what the chances were for us....I let him no there were no chances. As time has passed I felt I was healing okay. I have refrained from any relations with anyone (because we are still married) and feel that is the best course of action (although not the easiest) for me until we are officially divorced. In the last few months I have noticed he was becoming involved with someone else and tried to ignore, overlook that as I have told him there is not a chance between us but I find it VERY upsetting. Is that normal after all this time and water under the bridge? I find myself close to tears for a few reasons, but the biggest thing that bothers me is that I feel a great deal of jealousy that he has been able to move on while I sit here stagnating because, despite all my flaws, my morals are stronger than his. I feel the need to not let him no how much it is affecting me because I do not want him to know he still has that power (much to my chagrin since I thought I was over him) but yet I find it hard to hide my emotions from the kids although I'm trying to. I am not sure of how to handle this. It will come up soon in therapy but perhaps not soon enough to keep me from letting him know the pain he is once again causing. I am at a point where I am strong enough never to go back to him and I am letting him find his 'needy' women elsewhere but am struggling with the aforementioned pain. Any clues on ways of dealing with the pain? I will NOT move on to someone else until I am divorced and healed so please other options. I know I have rambled but hopefully it will make enough sense.
Thanks

I'm sorry Deep, but I don't think you'll find the support you're looking for here. Considering you begain a relationship with a married person, then married a cheater, you should chalk it up as life experience and work to better yourself instead. Don't focus on your soon to be ex's life or behavior. Make sure you are living a life that makes you happy, shows love and respect to those around you and ensures your children are loved and cared for. That's the best advice I can give.

aBetterMe

Thank you aBetterMe, you are right I have chalked it up as life experiance (not one of the pleasant ones) I need to work to better me and I am looking into moving but it may take alot of time considering the economy. In the meantime we live close together and without wanting to I notice the comings and goings and so do the kids. I worry how this will affect them since they are old enough to see, hear, and understand it all. I talked with my counselor today and she agrees moving will be a good thing but warned me that it could take longer than I want it to.
She has asked that I see her more often as I deal with the renewed pain. I hope that one day when this is all said and done I will be able to use the advice to find someone who can remain faithful.

I understand why things are quiet here. But take just a minute to read more into this than the fact I was a mistress. It takes 2 to tango. My husband is in the process of repeating history AGAIN.
(background recap) When we met I was in the process of trying to end a bad relationship and according to him he was in a rotten, loveless, ruined marriage with a hateful bitty for a wife. (I now know his ex-wife, she is none of these things) I was 21 and he was my 'best friend,' someone I could talk to who would listen, who always seemed to care about what was going on in my life, and was never too busy for me. (All the things I needed emotionally)After a few months of being friends he told me he loved me which I thouhgt was great because I loved him too. Anyway you look at what I did it was wrong but I did not do it alone.
The point I'm trying to make is he is doing it again. He has found a young girl who is in similar circumstances as I was when we met. He has already passed the stage where he has told her he loves her and the relationship is growing in a similar way.
Should I knowing what I know now share this information to posibbly keep a 3rd broken heart from happening? I feel like his first wife still in some way loves him and I know I still love him even though I no longer like him and will never go back to him. I hate to see him ruin someone elses life in the same manner.

deepinlove, the thing that strikes me the most about affair marriages is the surprise of the participants when it happens again. When you marry someone knowing they are a cheater, then you have essentially signed on for that. Cheaters cheat and that is not a secret in an affair. Therefore, the problem is not the adultery, but taking accountability for your willful choices.

The best outcome, IMO, would be to get divorced and use this as a lesson learned.

And yes, I would talk to his new OW and give her the background, but I suspect she will not care if she is shagging a married man.

Deep - I have to agree with ML on this. You can talk to her if you want, but she most likely won't care because she's "different from the other women in his past" and "their relationship is special" and "no one could possibly understand the love she feels". She's young and naive, just like you were. I think talking to her would be a waste of time and possibly emotionally painful for you.

Again, chalk up your marriage as a learning experience and try doing a dark Plan B to distance yourself from your cheating husband.

aBetterMe

Perhaps you should look at more than just the financial costs here.

What is this marriage costing you emotionally to preserve for financial reasons?

To complete the lesson, I think you need to finish the divorce and then make sure you don't make the same mistakes. Until then,you are still in school and still learning, and still paying the emotional tuition.

Thanks, you are probally right on her not listening. And it would be very emotionally painful. I just wonder if it would at least give her a heads up because she has some children of her own and I hate to see more lives ruined because she doesn't have a clue. As I feel he will follow the same pattern again.

I have marked my marriage up as a learning experience and am looking into a dark? Plan B

The trouble with distancing myself is the close proximity of where we both live. I am looking into moving but with the housing market the way it is it may take a while.

Thanks for the advice

You talking to her won't "give her a clue" either. Let it go and move on.

aBetterMe

This marriage is killing me emotionally. I see that. Some days are okay but most are not anymore. I function but I feel like that is all I am doing anymore. I'm so ready to move on but at the same time I am terrified of I'm not sure mabye the changing, maybe letting go, maybe admitting I failed, maybe just being alone (but thats kinda funny because I've been alone for a couple of years) .... I dunno.
I feel I should be able to move on easily after all he has done over the years but here I sit stagnant. i don't feel I should date (and have not) because we are still married and it would be wrong. So yes I am still paying the emotional tuition as you put it and hate it.