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Hi Mindshare Stop wasting time and go see the solicitor and file for Divorce. As you have mentioned many times, your bio clock is ticking. Don't waste any more time or energy on this man. He has YEARS worth of work to do on himself before anybody should consider being with him. You need to get through with the Divorce process as quickly as possible and move on with your life. You already know that there are plenty of good men out there just waiting to meet you. You've done alot of work on your 'picker' and you will choose more wisely next time. You won't ignore the red flags as you did with WH. lol!! nope the boot is firmly stuck!!! I needed that though to get my head straight again. I can talk myself into anything.... I am sure as the days pass I will be able to see the situation more clearly. I am so relieved he is gone. I can even get my head round filing for the D aswell, see miracles can happen. One day at a time. I will give myself a few weeks to get my ducks in a row then file. You are right Mindshare, it would take years for him to get his act together, and I am not brave enough to take that on with no guarantees. I am scarred by my ability to get so far involved with him, but I do feel a will choose wisely next time. I will make sure I put them under a lie detector test and psycho metric test as part of the dating requirements!!! Joke (but actually quite a good idea?!) - Antena - what do you think??? Yes time to move on, and it actually feels good. God knows what I would have done without this place. Maybe it is a bit deep, but I actually fell pregnant whilst on the pill when I was 23. Then spent years trying with my H, I wander sometimes if God has some funny way of intervening.... Once again, thank you all very much. Harmony.
BW/FWW 34 (Harmony)
BH/WH 36
Feb 2009 - Affair starts, physical for 9 days on business trip.
Mar 2009 - Separate from H, live alone
Apr 2009 - realise I have made big mistake and attempt reconciliation with H, establish NC with OM.
Jun 2009 - H physical and emotional serial A start right upto present day.
Jul 2009 - NC with OM broken and becomes EA
Mar 2010 - H reads email and discovers A
Jul 2010 - Discover MB
Aug 2010 - Plan A starts
Oct 2010 - Plan B starts
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Harmony,
I know your clock is ticking, but really, it would be a terrible idea to have kids with this man!
M needs to be rock solid before it is blessed by kids. YOur M and your WH are not fit enough to have kids and if you did have kids with him it would put such a toll on you that it would make your M life even more h#ll.
You deserve to have kids with a better man. He is no M material. Period.
The dating game here in Italy is terrible. I do not trust Italian men and I would not date one of them. My WH was American but Italian men are worst. The only difference, in the past, is that Italian men did not leave their family if they had an A. NOw they do, so they are just like the Americans
blessing
Last edited by atena; 10/20/10 08:17 AM.
atena
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Hello Constant Yes I was really mad just before the A. That was fear Harmony, Anger can be turned inward to become depression also. Its good to get anngy but you need to direct the anger at the threat,then take action. You needed to identify what you should have been afraid of, which by coming here and with good counsel, you are. I just felt as though he bought nothing into the relationship, Right, well he brought what he was concerned with, his own needs, however screwed up that they were. Also he wasn't ready to give to anyone else openly or honestly becuase he is wrapped up in himself and what he cares about, him. He traded his addiction and selfish behavior in it for more selfish behavior with a different buzz, thats all. He saw it as OK cuz "At least I am not doing drugs and I am with a good woman". He stopped right there. He also expected you to hold it all together for him too. Parenting works like that when kids are young, but marriage never does that well. Its not supposed to..that I was the one putting in all the effort. Parenting, Well you did tell him he should and tryed to guide him, but to him it was nagging. I bet all his explainations about why he was like he was had everything pointed to him and his needs. He needed a counselor and a Daddy who would show him what a man was. Hold his hand when he had to, and stand for something eternal, not temporal like his own messed up version of himself and what was important. We all need this type of authority in our life, we are blessed to be broken enough to realize it, and to seek it. It doesn't come from within ourselves, it comes from outside ourselves, where everybody else lives and learns to love.
An authority of sacrificial love and it takes example and proper guidance to practice it. Trust it and live in its diciplines. All of us must learn it to be whole and healthy, many in life learn enough to get along, some never learn it at all and hide from it. There is a saying that I learned in my early twentys that I saw truth in. "There are 3 kimds of people in the world, People who make things happen, people who watch what happens, and people who wonder what happened" I knew right then no matter what it was up to me to change myself regaurdless of what mistakes I made on the way, I would learn and be molded to what I respected and found truth in. I really had no excuses unless I made them up selfishly for myself.
What kind of person do you want to be? Its a question that must be answered every time you are not satisfied with how things are, then you can take action to change it. The lie most people buy is that they can't. You did put all the effort into the relationship cuz you cared and respected relationship. He cared and respected hisself and his needs so he put effort into that at not only the relationships expense, but now yours. I never expected a great deal back, So you didn't get much back... boundaries of self protection. thats what JL was astute enough to tell you about on the outset, and what I felt you need to understand about yourself and work on.
Work on? Well I think that after you know why you will hate what part of you that allows yourself to be decieved and break that hedgeline that keeps you safe. We learn by fear and sometimes it takes pain to respect those boundaries. It is much better to understand what to be afraid of, or respect the boudaries, in the first place. Until you have an understanding of the boudaries and what keeps you safe while giving you freedom that really matters, you will need to understand the triggers within and people and situations without that you must avoid. Later you will want nothing to do with them and can teach your children with total confidance to fear those things so they to will avoid them. Even whaen they get rebeliious in youth and think they know everything.but I did expect love and affection and a H that wanted to spend time with me and experience things together. But you were trying to get water from a stone. All good expectations from your H who doesn't possess those values. He knows about and has heard about them but to him they are just words for other people he can dodge around to be accepted and manipulate when he can. You are doing him a favor by refusing to be used anymore. Let him sell it to the next person, or have a crappy relationship compass for the rest of his life if he chooses. Point is..even if you allowed him back and were patient and sacrificial while continuing to parent him, you would still be his mommy. His experience with her should tell you what he expects from her too.
He would have to be so transformed, like Paul in the bible, to even start to change enough so he would continue on his own. Or else he would only change enough to get along. He is still in love with himself. Do you want and have the strength to handle disciplining him or waiting for him to change? I don't think thats what a marrige should be. Can he change? Not without responding to circumstances correctly that you and others put on him by refusing to be around him until he does.
He is fighting to stay how he is and he doesn't want to give anything.All I remember thinking, is we created and built this beautiful house and I had no one to share it with. We worked so hard on it but never got to actually enjoy it. I was desperate for a baby and all he seemed concerned with was his next work deal, or look for a new house to build. My dreams seemed low down the priority list. Never just be still enjoy each others company and our lives together. Missing intimacy, Gotta have a common goal with honesty and joint giving to have anything to share with someone anyway. Sharing dreams that are equally important. Guess he didn't want kids ata all? You wanted a life, he wanted a wife, which is like his Mom.I know I could have tried to communicate this with him better, but I honestly did in some kind of way. He called it nagging. I could have sat down and had a serious chat with him, maybe that would have worked. Who knows. You are doing it now, lets see if he takes it serous enough to change and how much.I am better today, and feel 'normal'. As seeking suggested, I need to get out my yellow pad and start enjoying life!! YaY!!  Thanks all, you have been such a support system. I do it for me as well as for you, I think we all do. Harmony.
Me 56 Former BS Widowed 5-17-09 --married 25 years. 4 children DS-35 previous marriage--18-22 DGrandSons 6 and 4 Me former BS DD-29 with DGDs 5 and 1yr DSs 26 and 23 Teilhard de Chardin..“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” ...Sounds about right to me.
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...YOur M and your WH are not fit enough to have kids and if you did have kids with him it would put such a toll on you that it would make your M life even more h#ll.... I can attest to that being very true as I have experienced it also. Your are lucky you didn't have children with him, I would say God intevened but it is obvious there was some mercy there either way. Specially for your children. BTW, have you ever thought of in the future adopting if you find the right guy? It takes more than producing life from our bodys to create life in others. Being a parent is equally rewarding even if they are not your blood. They are all precious.
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.. The only difference, in the past, is that Italian men did not leave their family if they had an A. NOw they do, so they are just like the Americans
blessing Boo Hiss.. We are not all like that..Lol JK. I know what you meant.
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Ok I do not mean to bash Italians, I am one of them so I should not bad mouth me. But Italian men have so much against them these days...in the past everything against them was balanced by the love for their family. NOw they lost that too. How sad.
Blessing
atena
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...YOur M and your WH are not fit enough to have kids and if you did have kids with him it would put such a toll on you that it would make your M life even more h#ll.... I can attest to that being very true as I have experienced it also. Your are lucky you didn't have children with him, I would say God intevened but it is obvious there was some mercy there either way. Specially for your children. BTW, have you ever thought of in the future adopting if you find the right guy? It takes more than producing life from our bodys to create life in others. Being a parent is equally rewarding even if they are not your blood. They are all precious. Put that damn crystal ball away Constant!! I would love to adopt. I have always said that I would like to adopt and have my own biological child. My H liked this idea aswell. Yes it is something I would love to do. I have always felt that there are so many children out there who would love to have a home who are in 'care' why bring more children into the world? I have been cleared of any further fertility issues, I had an ovarion cyst, removed about 6 weeks before the A started. Sorry if thats TMI, but just wanted to clear that up. I have been cleared of any fertility issues. Yes I would love to do this, once I have the right relationship/marriage. Who knows....
BW/FWW 34 (Harmony)
BH/WH 36
Feb 2009 - Affair starts, physical for 9 days on business trip.
Mar 2009 - Separate from H, live alone
Apr 2009 - realise I have made big mistake and attempt reconciliation with H, establish NC with OM.
Jun 2009 - H physical and emotional serial A start right upto present day.
Jul 2009 - NC with OM broken and becomes EA
Mar 2010 - H reads email and discovers A
Jul 2010 - Discover MB
Aug 2010 - Plan A starts
Oct 2010 - Plan B starts
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Harmony, I'm glad you survived my  . I found your lists of issues with your H very compelling. Let me ask you a question that I really think you should consider. Which traits of your H or his family would you like your son to have? Which treats of your H or his mother would like your daughter to have? If you remain with this man, your children WILL pickup treats from his side of the family. It is part of the deal. There are good guys out there, some of them have been dumped by other women, some are late bloomers, and some are just maturing into men from boys (yes us guys mature later than girls do)  . You have worked on your boundaries. I would like you to take your current boundaries and apply them to when you first met your H, would he have pasted the test? I know SH wants to save your marriage and I know your H will get off the fence as soon as he realizes you are really heading out of the door. BUT...is he really the man you want your children to learn from, grow up to be like, and immulate? You absolutely MUST remember that quote I posted to you, because it is very profound. I will offer you another one to consider because it seems to really apply to women more than men, but also men. Potential is what gets the coach fired. When people start to talk about someones potential it means that they havn't done it yet. Now if you are talking about starting a career fine. But, in sports and other walks of life lots of people have potential but many of them never reach it. You don't marry a man for his "potential" you marry him for what he does NOW, what treats he has NOW, and a clear way to see this is by the people he surrounds himself with and how he treats them. Is he consistent? Does he "kiss A$$" and be nice for those that can help him, and treat others poorly? So let me finish this by asking you about your "potential". Are you going to starting living up to it? If so you need to lead your life consistently within the boundaries you set. You need to strive for your goals, you need to be the kind of person that men/women enjoy being around AND you need to value yourself to not let someone cross your boundaries and bring you down. You cannot control your H nor his actions but you could control having an affair. How was your job performance before, during, and after the affair? How is your job performance as you deal with all of this drama? How are you treating other people or are you withdrawing? You see allowing yourself or anyone else to cross you boundaries affects your potential in all other aspects of your life. Make your potential a reality and you will be a woman sought after for your work, your social skills, your humanity, and your ability to marry and sustain love and a family. Please think about this very carefully. God Bless, JL
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OK just read your post JL, will have another read and think about it.
The first part of your post is relatively straight forward I feel, but the second part of your post well aghhhh!!!!!!
I will think about your post very carefully and respond.
You are funny though (I mean this in a good way), no rest for the wicked!!!!!
BW/FWW 34 (Harmony)
BH/WH 36
Feb 2009 - Affair starts, physical for 9 days on business trip.
Mar 2009 - Separate from H, live alone
Apr 2009 - realise I have made big mistake and attempt reconciliation with H, establish NC with OM.
Jun 2009 - H physical and emotional serial A start right upto present day.
Jul 2009 - NC with OM broken and becomes EA
Mar 2010 - H reads email and discovers A
Jul 2010 - Discover MB
Aug 2010 - Plan A starts
Oct 2010 - Plan B starts
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Rest for the wicked???? NEVER!!!!  JL
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You have asked me lots of questions.
I have one for you.
Why do you do this? What do you get out of it?
BW/FWW 34 (Harmony)
BH/WH 36
Feb 2009 - Affair starts, physical for 9 days on business trip.
Mar 2009 - Separate from H, live alone
Apr 2009 - realise I have made big mistake and attempt reconciliation with H, establish NC with OM.
Jun 2009 - H physical and emotional serial A start right upto present day.
Jul 2009 - NC with OM broken and becomes EA
Mar 2010 - H reads email and discovers A
Jul 2010 - Discover MB
Aug 2010 - Plan A starts
Oct 2010 - Plan B starts
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Teachers learn from thier students would be my guess about JL.
But I wanted to say great post JL. It was right on.
Glad to see your day is good today Harmony.
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.. I would love to adopt. I have always said that I would like to adopt and have my own biological child. My H liked this idea aswell. Yes it is something I would love to do. I have always felt that there are so many children out there who would love to have a home who are in 'care' why bring more children into the world?
So then the biological clock is not a reason why you need a relationship that produces children soon then. right? You talk a lot about your clock as it relates to time and having a good relationship. I am glad to hear that it really isn't a reason to you and you are a bigger person than that.
I have been cleared of any further fertility issues, I had an ovarion cyst, removed about 6 weeks before the A started. Sorry if thats TMI,
...Lol, I just have to laugh, thats way modest of you, but its wasted on me. I have been shall we say "intimate" with womens health issues for a long time. 7 times in the delivery room, dughter has endomytreosis and burst cysts about every three months. I took her to gyno at 13, my wife had cervical cancer while pregnamt with daughter and to many female friends who need to talk about those very personal issues. It made me laugh when you said it might be TMI. Like my sons jokingly say "This aint my first time at the rodeo"..
But in all seriuosness, I am glad you are ok, that can be quite seriuos and painful too from what i have heard.
but just wanted to clear that up. I have been cleared of any fertility issues.
Yes I would love to do this, once I have the right relationship/marriage. Who knows.... Your gonna be a great Mom some day
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You have asked me lots of questions.
I have one for you.
Why do you do this? What do you get out of it? You know I have asked myself this question for 11 years and frankly I don't have a good answer. I have speculated on it alot, even posted about it before, but I don't have a good answer for you. Let me offer you my best shot. As a child I moved around alot with my family. All over the US and outside of it. I was constantly having to deal with new people, new teachers, new kids, new friends for my family, heck even new accents.  I, like many kids in my situation, learned about people how to adapt accents, how people reacted, etc. I suppose people have always interested me. I have noticed and commented to my W recently, even today, well into my 7th decade, I still look closely at people. My guess is to see if I know them or recognize where they are from. I still do meet people I knew or knew people I knew 40-50 years ago, so I look. I would say I have an interest in people. I came to this site because I was looking for some insight into marriage, and I found this well orgainzed approach to marriage. It appealed to me. Further, to my amazement, I read here for 6 months before I finally registered, I could see patterns in people's behavior just as I saw patterns as a kid. I make a living looking for patterns and trying to learn new things, I am a research scientist, although my line of work is theoretical and mathematical. so I do what comes naturally to me. I look at a person's story, see if I can understand the pattern, and then start to ask questions. I come from a military background both family and personally, and in that background the constant topic is leadership and leadership under pressure. Leadership is about getting people to see the potential of something, setting the goals and then providing them the means to accomplish what needs to be accomplished. Now hearing this do my questions make sense to you? They should. I must say finally, that although I have met a few of the posters on this site over the years, I have not met many. Nevertheless, I derive tremendous satisfaction when a marriage works, and failing that when a life works well. I love to see people succeed, and sometimes that does not mean their marriage survives. More times it does mean that. I hope this helps. God Bless, JL
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JL
it is quite a contrast research scientist to marriage support! Yes it makes sense though, you obviously have a real interest in what makes people tick and pick up patterns of behaviour.
I have some thoughts on your questions.
What traits of his would I like my children to have?
I sometimes think my desire to have children put a block on the way I saw many things, but there are not many qualities of his that I would like my children to have. I am sure he would be a good father, and you can't predict the future but I remember him saying once about golf, that I wouldn't let him play at weekends because I would want him to be with the family, and I was left thinking, wouldn't you rather be with the family??? I guess my own father played lots of golf and worked lots when we were little and I want a father who wants to take an active part. I can imagine I would end up with most of the responsibility.
You then asked about my boundaries and how they would apply when I first met my H.
My H knew he wanted to marry me within 6 weeks of meeting. He said he knew I was the one. So he was always quite full on. If I knew what ik
know now I would run a mile, for example,
1. I got a text message from his ex GF on my H phone, saying I think I prefer Wendy. When I spoke to him afterwards he was in a real panic and said he met up with his ex for lunch and she stole his phone. I think there was a cross over somewhere. Oh she was nuts too kept stalking him.
2. Alarm bells rang with the rship with his mother e.g she use to come and clean his house for him ( he was 26), he took me to meet her very early on to get her approval, and he sent me a valentines card his words 'my mother said I should'.
3. He was in a lot of debt and did not manage money well.
4. He was a drug dealer and stored them in his house.
5. He was a heavy drinker (daily).
6. He had never really left his home town and 'achieved' anything,
7. He would do weird things like curl up in a ball in the corner crying, as he couldn't cope with work.
OMG!!!!!!!
Then you ask me about my potential?????
This is a toughie. I need to have more thinking time....
BW/FWW 34 (Harmony)
BH/WH 36
Feb 2009 - Affair starts, physical for 9 days on business trip.
Mar 2009 - Separate from H, live alone
Apr 2009 - realise I have made big mistake and attempt reconciliation with H, establish NC with OM.
Jun 2009 - H physical and emotional serial A start right upto present day.
Jul 2009 - NC with OM broken and becomes EA
Mar 2010 - H reads email and discovers A
Jul 2010 - Discover MB
Aug 2010 - Plan A starts
Oct 2010 - Plan B starts
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Oh just as a side point, have been thinking a lot about OM. Sorry, just being honest. I keep wanting to contact him. Sorry.
BW/FWW 34 (Harmony)
BH/WH 36
Feb 2009 - Affair starts, physical for 9 days on business trip.
Mar 2009 - Separate from H, live alone
Apr 2009 - realise I have made big mistake and attempt reconciliation with H, establish NC with OM.
Jun 2009 - H physical and emotional serial A start right upto present day.
Jul 2009 - NC with OM broken and becomes EA
Mar 2010 - H reads email and discovers A
Jul 2010 - Discover MB
Aug 2010 - Plan A starts
Oct 2010 - Plan B starts
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Oh just as a side point, have been thinking a lot about OM. Sorry, just being honest. I keep wanting to contact him. Sorry. Oh what the heck, frying pan...fire..I nned someone or something..right Harmony?
Me 56 Former BS Widowed 5-17-09 --married 25 years. 4 children DS-35 previous marriage--18-22 DGrandSons 6 and 4 Me former BS DD-29 with DGDs 5 and 1yr DSs 26 and 23 Teilhard de Chardin..“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” ...Sounds about right to me.
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don't be sorry for us. be sorry for yourself for wanting to complicate your situation even further by letting OM back in your life....
blessing
atena
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Let me remind you again that OM is a low life scumbag who had an A with a married woman and thereby demonstrated that he is as boundary free as your H. You seeing a pattern here??? When you find the memory of him positively repellant you will have turned a corner. I just started reading on this, but here is the best article I have found so far on why women stay in abusive relationships. http://forums.our-place-online.net/index.php?showtopic=6864 Lots of "aha" moments. There is one section where I thought continuously of you. If you read it, I'll tell you which one. I don't know how to do that link is "here" thing so it looks tidy!
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I don't know how to do that link is "here" thing so it looks tidy! Seeking, you will have to switch to full screen reply, on the top of this reply screen there's a Create a link to a webpage icon (right next to the emoticons icon), click on that icon, then the pop up window appears where you can enter the complete URL for the link you wish to add (you will just copy the address of the webpage there). After OK another pop up window appears where you can write this "here" or whatever you wish. Then OK. I hope it helps end of t/j for Harmony. You know what for.
Me, FWW: 43
Mr_Recon6mo, FWH: 44
DD20 and DS23
3 cats
Married 23 years, together 24
Divorcing
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