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Originally Posted by awokenhubby
I think I am going to give her a copy of HNHN and ask her to read it to show her how we can get back to being in love. Thoughts on this?

An even better book for your situation is Surviving an Affair. It not only addresses her affair but has a plan to restore the love in your marriage. If you think the book would repel her at this time, try Fall in Love, Stay in Love.

If I were you, I would stick to these talking points with her:

end your affair with Bob and I know how we can restore the love in our marriage. I am willing to work on the marriage if you end your affair.

Even though she won't like it, I would bring this affair up OFTEN. Bring it up about every 2 to 3 days. Here is what Steve Harley told SickofLimbo about avoiding relationship talk and I believe this principle applies to the absense of discussion about her affair:

Quote
Another critique he made about how I have brought it [relationship talk] up in the past was that I was way too casual or 'cool' about it. I explained that I was trying to show confidence and demonstrate that I would be "OK" whether or not we stayed together. I would try to stay calm and rational when talking to her and this obscured just how passionately I feel about recovering our marriage. He feels that this may have shown her that marital recovery wasn't really that important to me if I was talking about it very nonchalantly.

It is for this reason that I think your main focus should be on the BIGGEST PROBLEM, which is the OM. Until you get him out of there, all of your efforts are wasted. Not mentioning it ENABLES her and gives her the impression it isn't that important to you.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by awokenhubby
Melody, I don't know his last name to try and find a landline; I don't even know if he has one.

I would do some intel on him and get his name, home phone # and the names and #s of his family members. [you can call them too] I would most certainly get ahold of his GF. That might kill the affair in one day. Don't give up until you get the goods on him! I assure you, he knows your name and #s.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Melody,
You are right, trying to do these things while she is like this is an effort in futility. She is not willing to admit that it is an EA. I have exposed it to all, including her family and our friends back in June and got not support. Her family got mad at me for bringing them into our personal problems. Our friends don't accept that it is an affair; they told me it's nonsense. She didn't have a job at the time so that was out.
That is why I'm trying to show her that it can work. If she sees hope that we can repair our love then I can get her to dump the relationship and commit to making it work. I am trying to do some of the concepts to show her that this can work and we can repair our marriage. But you are right, it is time to talk to her about ending contact/relationship with POSOM again and calling him and telling him to get lost. I am positive that this will send her through the roof but it needs to be ended. If she wants to save our marriage (right now she says she doesn't) then this needs to happen. I thought wrong when I thought that after exposure you are supposed to let the affair die it's own death if exposure doesn't kill it.


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Melody,
The problem is the distance. NY to FLA. and having never met him and knowing nothing about him or his family. I do know from some of the intercepted e-mails that he has 2 adult sons that he is not close with and live elsewhere in the state. That is all the info I have. But it is time to call him and tell him to bugger off. What exactly do I say and how do I put it?


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Originally Posted by awokenhubby
That is why I'm trying to show her that it can work. If she sees hope that we can repair our love then I can get her to dump the relationship and commit to making it work. I am trying to do some of the concepts to show her that this can work and we can repair our marriage. But you are right, it is time to talk to her about ending contact/relationship with POSOM again and calling him and telling him to get lost. I am positive that this will send her through the roof but it needs to be ended. If she wants to save our marriage (right now she says she doesn't) then this needs to happen. I thought wrong when I thought that after exposure you are supposed to let the affair die it's own death if exposure doesn't kill it.

The problem with working on the marriage FIRST instead of focusing on killing the affair is that it is much like a falling down drunk trying to "learn" the steps of AA before he quits drinking. Since he is drunk, none of the lessons get through. BUT, when he stops drinking, they all make sense because he is sober.

If she won't end the affair, I would suggest going into Plan B pretty soon because you have been in Plan A for some time now. She is enjoying getting her needs met in 2 places and is becoming accustomed to this. The more accustomed she becomes, the more entrenched she becomes in her affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by awokenhubby
Melody,
The problem is the distance. NY to FLA. and having never met him and knowing nothing about him or his family. I do know from some of the intercepted e-mails that he has 2 adult sons that he is not close with and live elsewhere in the state. That is all the info I have. But it is time to call him and tell him to bugger off. What exactly do I say and how do I put it?

AH, try and get his full name from his cell phone. Do you have his #? It would be more effective to first expose to his GF and anyone else you can find. THEN, give him a call. Try finding his name on whitepages.com on the reverse look up feature.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I can't figure out waywards either. Or anyone for that matter. smile

I agree, it's normal to desire companionship...just keep the wait part in mind. Who knows what will end up happening here, we have to stick around and see!


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Okay, I did not know how about white pages.com. It is easy and can tell me a lot of info. It is worth the minimal cost. I will do it once I get out of school. I think SAA might set her off, we are starting to communicate and I see some connection. I like the idea of Fall in Love, Stay in Love. I haven't read that one yet, so I need to purchase it and read it. Maybe I can buy 2 and give her one. I want to show her there is a way to rebuild our love. But I think she is in the fantasy world of her affair. She only texts him. She has no internet at her apartment and my sons have her laptop. She could be doing it from work or a friends house. I can see her call log and she never gets or sends calls to him. She does however text him regularly, sometimes a conversation of 20 texts, 10 each way. I will need to bring up her ending contact with him and giving us a shot. I misinterpreted the whole don't talk about the affair thing and need to get much more active in bringing it up to her and getting it ended. So time to talk to her about it, and then after some white pages help, time to talk to him. I hope this can end it; for once it is over, I think I can get her to try. I we both try and follow MB principles, I know it can work.


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AH, she might also have an affair phone. Don't let her ire about any affair discussion scare you off. She will be mad and will try to shut you down, just STAY FIRM and don't back down. I don't think you will have any problem doing that, since you have done a STUPENDOUS job bringing other problems to the forefront.

I want to applaud you for pointing out her part in your depression. The radical honesty you practiced there will greatly benefit your marriage in the future. I would practice that same radical honesty now in relation to her affair.

You are doing great!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Well I ordered 2 copies of Fall in Love, Stay in Love; Five Steps to Romantic Love and one Copy of SAA. I figure I can give her one of each of the first 2 and if she reads them, we can discuss them together. I got one copy of SAA for me, and eventually if she see the wisdom of the Harleys she can have it to read, or we can read it together. I figured SAA would send her through the roof, but I need to read it for me. The other two I haven't read, but I figured they would be good to show her the possibility of a great marriage rebuild. They are supposed to be here by the 1st. I hope it works.


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That is why I'm trying to show her that it can work. If she sees hope that we can repair our love then I can get her to dump the relationship and commit to making it work.

You are making what may be a fatal mistake here. You seem to believe that if you can just show her that you are the better choice, she will logically dump the OM and choose you instead.

But, as Mr. Spock might say, "you proceed from a false assumption." You assume that she's trying to choose between you and OM. She's not. Like every other wayward on this planet, she wants BOTH of you because it feels really good to have two men fighting over her and feeding her emotional needs. That's why people cheat. Otherwise, they'd just leave. But they don't. They sit on the fence and try to have both, just like your WW is doing.

That's why busting up the affair is Job One. She will never, ever choose between you because she doesn't WANT to choose between you, and unless and until you understand that you don't have a prayer.

You have to remove the option of her having both of you. You either remove the OM through exposure, or you remove yourself through Plan B.

If you hope that logic will get through to her and she'll sensibly choose the better man, you are sadly mistaken. She will go on sitting on that fence forever and keeping you both just like she is right now, because THAT is what she wants.



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Mulan,
I have exposed. I am planning on calling the POSOM and tell him to bugger off. But as per our talk last night, she is afraid of trying, getting feelings for me again, and it not working and being hurt again. That is why I am trying to show her that there is a plan/method that will guarantee us repairing and having a great marriage. If she can see that it will be better than it ever was, I think that she will dump the OM. She only texts him for little bits of affection. There is no phone calls, no internet and no visits. So the only thing she is getting is flirting and being made to feel good about herself. If she can see that we can work, that job can easily come back to me. But her fears of failure need to be calmed and I need to continue to get POSOM out of the picture show what little she gets from him is gone. Plus I have made it quite clear that we are proceeding ahead with the separation and once we are divorced, there will be no relationship. I am still in plan A because I can see her slowly swinging back towards seeing the possibility and see us connecting. I am going to continue the thread of our talk from last night in a few days and see how she responds.


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Originally Posted by awokenhubby
If she can see that it will be better than it ever was, I think that she will dump the OM.

AH, if this is your thinking, I predict you are headed towards great disappointment, my friend. She has no reason to dump the OM when the better deal is to have both of you. She will not dump him as long as she can have you both. That is the best deal for her.

The longer this situation goes on as is, the more entrenched the affair becomes. This is why I suggested exposing the affair to the OM's GF and his family. That will cause conflict in the affair.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Put another way, be assured she has made a choice: BOTH of you. She is not on the fence at all. She has the best of both worlds, 2 men meeting her needs and absolutely no reason to stop.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Mulan
That's why busting up the affair is Job One. She will never, ever choose between you because she doesn't WANT to choose between you, and unless and until you understand that you don't have a prayer.

BINGO!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Again that is why I am using white pages.com to gather info and make a phone call to him this week and also push her into NC with him. I know that she won't choose until pushed, and I know now that I must push the issue.


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I think you should contact the GF first as suggested above. If you contact OM first, he will play the "she only texts him for little bits of affection" - card and since you are believing it yourself (these were your words) he will be quite successful to scare you off. Next step for him is to tell his GF about some crazy guy stalking him and the next step after that is to complain to your WW about you ruining their special friendship.

Score: OM 1, A-Hubby 0.

Maybe you will get also some marriage advice from OM. I did. laugh

Start from GF presenting solid intel and you will get much different results.

Oh, and did I tell you - DO NOT WARN YOUR WW OR OM!


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Melody& Mulan, Thank you for the 2x4s; I needed that. After a night of introspection it has refocused me. My anger at the affair is back at the surface. I have been doing too much carrot and not enough stick. It is time to stop being so nice and do a little more of show her how it will be without me. I need to stop feeling sorry for her for being in this situation, she brought it on herself. If I had poor coping skills and that was why I had depression, then her poor coping skills is what made her the way she was and why she treated me the way she was and why she left. I need to get more proactive about making this friendship (it's really an EA even if she won't admit it) end. That is why she can't see that we can repair our love and marriage and make it better than it was. Time to push this to the end.


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Recon,
I am trying to find out a way to get a hold of GF so we can talk. Hopefully through whitepages.com I can get POSOM landline if he has one and get a hold of her. Don't worry I won't make nice with POSOM. I have been sorely tempted to take a plane ride; and would have already if I could afford it. But then I'm back to finding a large, hungry alligator to dispose of the body. Maybe I could just say he went for one of his runs and went into a large waterhole! Yeah, that's it.LOL


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Originally Posted by awokenhubby
Again that is why I am using white pages.com to gather info and make a phone call to him this week and also push her into NC with him. I know that she won't choose until pushed, and I know now that I must push the issue.

AH, a more effective tactic is to call his house and expose the affair to his GF. Then call his family members and expose the affair.

Call him AFTER you have done this and tell him hell is coming if he doesn't buzz off.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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