My thinking EXACTLY, BC. From what I understand, D!ck hasn't hired him yet, just a consultation. And a "fabulous opportunity" indeed to see what D!ck makes, how he spent OUR lines of credit, what his monthly expenses are, etc.

And Hope will give me help as she, too, manuvers through the process, especially the fraud part. I need to know if it is in my best interest to be on the inside or outside of this. I will not lie or hide the truth to save D!ck's a$$. I have evidence to show that D!ck pissed away money on Bimbo, gambling, "loans" to friends, etc.

I mean -- wouldn't a bankruptcy judge love to see the $150,000 check D!ck wrote to his friend that came off our lines of credit? And the $12,000 cashier's check he wrote to Bimbo directly out of our home equity loan? How about all the trips to Vegas and the elaborate spending in the past three years?

D!ck would be better off settling with me then go through the bk by himself. I know too much. I need him to realize that.

Maybe it's time to have a little "come to Jesus" meeting with D!ck?

Holy,

I think you are deluding yourself to think that the judge/court system cares how your STBXH created the debt. What he/she will care about is his income, his budget, and how much $ he can repay his creditors over the time of the plan. What judge's get worked up about are when the budget is unreasonable and they think the debtor is hiding income.

Other than that, they do not get emotionally involved on the reason for the bankruptcy. I don't mean to be harsh, but you are reading much more into this than there is.

Perhaps instead of this issue you should focus instead on yourself, what things can you do to improve yourself? Take classes, get involved with the community, church, etc., that is more helpful to you in your situation than becoming entangled in this issue.

ba

EXACTLY. D!ck won't give my attorney his paycheck stubs, his tax return, his expenses, his credit card statements. We have no idea where his retirement ended up so he is likely hiding money. And since we are still MARRIED and since this bankruptcy will affect my credit for a long time, I can't just put my head in the sand and schedule my next mani/pedi.

This is what frustrates me to no end. I HAVE TO KEEP TABS ON D!CK FINANCIALLY SINCE I AM TIED TO HIM FINANCIALLY.

No one else can do this. Remember -- D!ck is a BANKER with insider information and sneaky friends who are willing to cook the books for him. D!ck blatantly ran up debts WHILE WE WERE MARRIED for the benefit of Bimbo and gambling. I will be responsible for half of these if I do not have the evidence to show that they were nonmarital debts.

See -- this isn't about sour grapes. I'm not seeking my revenge. It's not like D!ck had all this money lying around and he chose to spend it on Bimbo instead of me and it's gone. He NEVER had the money in the first place. It came from our joint lines of credit. And what was left on the lines after he filed for D -- he spent that, too. He exhausted every single line of credit.

I do not want to get stuck with his affair debt. I had no benefit from it. What D!ck is doing is fraud, plain and simple. He is filing bankruptcy to get out of paying his bills. Simple.

This is a big deal to me.

Who am I suppose to have look at all the money stuff? My attorney? He spelled it out that I am in charge of that. Anything he has to subpoena will cost me a fortune.

Have my accountant do that? You mean D!ck's best friend who's been having an affair with Bimbo's best friend? The same guy who introduced D!ck and Bimbo and still socializes with them?

Hire a forensic accountant? And pay him with what? I'm paying for two kids in college (both turned 18 since D!ck left so he pays me NOTHING for them) and one in high school. And, yes, I have obtained financial aide, they both had summer jobs, and they have student loans. And the last time I asked D!ck to share an expense for the kids -- Bimbo responded that "they will not help."

I was married to D!ck for 25 years. He handled all our finances. This is his expertise. I have sought financial advice from friends, family, etc. I don't have the money to spend on hiring someone to look at my books.

While I appreciate advice and I come here to vent, I just can't shelf my efforts and expect the money part to go away. I want to get this divorce over with so I can move forward. I'm not pining away for D!ck. That ship done sailed a while ago.

D!ck's using this bankruptcy as another means to delay the divorce and keep from paying me my due. I can't sit on the sidelines and let it happen without having my say.

When you were married, did you have a list of all the accounts and what money was in them ..you know...in case he died?

We have a list like this.

Chase Bank- 20K- Joint account- acct number
Wells Fargo- 30K- Husbands account with POD- Acct numbers
Etc, etc.
Loan # _________for 16K...at Avantist Credit Union

Etc. Etc.

We keep these in a special notebook in case one should become incapacitated or die. Also so we can keep track of the money and the loans.

I agree HH.

Knowledge is everything in these kinds of matters. If I did not have the savvy to protect myself during the D I would have been left with much less.

During mediation having my documentation saved my family and finances. Even though I was falling apart emotionally I kept my wits and it made all the difference to my situation today.

For XH, he has declared bankruptcy and because of my documentation and record keeping I should be able to recover for the enforcement of his D decree.

Blessings.

Holy, I say you've been doing a STELLAR job at keeping tabs on the $$. You're right about your attorney not doing it for you and you wouldn't want him to do it anyway, that would cost a small fortune! (Besides that, you'd really be paying an associate or a paralegal to do it.)

I know you're sick and tired of all this and hopefully there will be an end in site for you soon. Between you and Hope's WH, I don't know which is worse. Are you sure they're not related?

Keep on keeping on Holy.

I think I might win. Who spends their daughter's money, then goes bankrupt and is in Vegas for his affairage...but he has no money.

The divorce that keeps on giving.

To be a LITTLE BIT (not much) fair, though, there are two things in Vegas that are dirt-cheap:

1. Weddings
2. Rooms

If they're a high-roller, they get extra-special treatment and often can get a stay for next to nothing.

Funny...they share the same first name!!!

I think mine wins. He, too, took the kids' money. He took it out of their savings accounts and "loaned" it to a friend. I only happened upon it and demanded it be paid back in full.

Just how low they go is UNBELIEVABLE. Let this be WARNING to those BSs out there. If your WS isn't mean yet -- just wait.
The longer they cohabitate with OP... the more the WS lies and does dispicable things to the BS and their kids. Be prepared!!!

Holy,

I can see that you are stuck where you are. I was trying to get you to see about the future, yours and your children. My WH took out home equity loans, ran up the credit cards, took money out of the children's bank account to for the biz his OW encouraged him to buy. But the facts are that the mortgage was joint, the home equity line joint, most of the credit cards were joint in our case. I sold our home in NJ and moved to OH so that our youngest could be near his dad and to try to make a go of it. I bought the house in OH in my name, but it didn't matter bc he was using the household income to run his biz. I had to use some credit cards to charge groceries on! And his "best friend" which whom he bought the biz from was supposed to finance x amount of the biz but last minute put a lien on our house in NJ so I had to take out a 401-k loan to pay it off in order to sell it. To make it worse, the 401-k loan eventually went into default and went as a distribution and taxed accordingly. My children can't get student loans bc (a) I make too much and (b) I am not allowed to co-sign any loans for them, just pay back the creditors. WH took a loan from his sister and BIL against my wishes for the biz and the sister and BIL came after us for that and the full term of the lease for the biz, 5 years rent, plus interest and penalties.

My point is that all of the above didn't matter in Chapter 13, who did what who knew what and the why's involved. Point was, debt was joint, we were still married so even if I divorced today, the debt would follow me, he could declare Chapter 7, I can't.

So I have had my days of as you call "sour grapes" but you know what, nothing I felt or thought changed the facts. I can only change me and my reaction of them. So, I am in 60 months of financial prison, son can't go to a 4 yr college, on and on. But everyday I get up, do my best, try to let go some of the bitterness and trust that God will take care of the rest. I have to believe that otherwise what is the point? Good people don't come out ahead and everyone can do whatever they want to others without consequences.

What I suggest is that you are stuck, you rationalize why you feel you must do what you do but everyone has choices. That is up for you to come to at some stage. My words were to help, not annoy, but I don't think you are in a place to see them.

All the best,

ba

Thanks for explaining, ba. You really have been through the financial ringer. If that is what's ahead for me -- OUCH!!!

And you are right -- I do feel "stuck" so to speak. I'm stuck in that limbo of still being married but not quite divorced. I'm not at the beginning (since it started 21 months ago) or at the end (since I would be ready to sign papers), but somewhere in the middle that seems an ocean wide. And it's stopped.

And financially, I'm bleeding. I have less and less money each month. It's like what you said, ba. No one cares who did what, who knew what, or the whys for how we got to where we are now. I guess justice happens only in the movies.

My attorney's advice is to "tread water." Not the way I like to swim, but it's keeping me alive at the moment.

Holy,

Hugs to you, I know it is hard. I also know that the anger/depression/thoughts of revenge are more hurtful to you than helpful, bc if they were helpful, oh boy would I have been helped! My sons were even tired of my attitude two years ago, I thought everyone wants me to get over it but I can't bc I don't see any justice! But you know, I may never see it, nor you, but we know it will come to those that hurt others, especially their own families.

I am hoping that going through this, I may help others, I don't know how yet, but I feel like some good has to come from all of this. I really am letting go of the financial, heck I may work until I am 75 but I want to be healthy. Which I can't be healthy with all of the negativity inside.

That is what rang true with you, I know it is a different sitch, your WH is out of control spending on OW and himself, very hard to take, and the loss is to you and your children. But I also see that you can be a better person, that you can get past this and actually grow much more than otherwise. If you can survive and thrive through this, and I don't mean financially, you are actually the winner in all of this. You will have your kids respect and also show them how to overcome adversity.

Please take care and think of pampering yourself!

ba

Hi BA, in HH case your WH is hiding money and diverting to other funds. Your right judges do frown on this. Declaring bankruptcy is not an automatic right for any chapter and if there is true fraud then they could be fined, go to jail and have their case declined.

BA, I am sorry you have gone through so much. Yours is an example for BS to open their eyes and try to protect their finances early on. Your posting was a real eyeopener for me and I am sure many others.

Blessings.

HH,
This is what I'd do if I was in your shoes...

1. Starting with the date that either you or WH first filed for seperation or divorce, consider your finances split.
2. Take the balance of all assets & debts at that point and divide them in half. What he does with his "half" from that point on is his issue, not yours. You only have to answer for your half.
3. Based on your income and his, calculate the child support due each month starting the date in point 1. There are on-line calculators to help you do this.
4. Add the amount of child support due each month to your half.
5. If you could get alimony pay as well, you could add that to your half each month as well, but that ones harder to fight for.
6. Now subtract from your side (the net assets/debts + child support due) anything that WH paid on your behalf, i.e. the house payment, utilities, groceries, etc. The theory is that he should have been paying support & you should have been paying the bills out of that.
7. For the Christian tuition, he should pay the % that he took in of the total income. For example if together you make $10K a month and he makes $8K of that he has to pay 80% of the tuition and you pay the other 20%.
8. Medical bills are also split using the income ratio. 80% his 20% your in the ratio used in #7.
9. Tax returns, anything else you can think of, calculate your part and add/subtract it from your "half".
10. The balance at the end of your half is your minimum settlement offer. It goes up each month until he signs.

Go through the last year (or two or three) since you've been seperated and see how this works out. If you are not "bankrupt" at the end of the list on your "half" I don't see why you'd even consider filing bankruptcy. You just become one of his debtors that he needs to pay off - and you should be first on the list!

If you do it this way you don't need to care what he spends or not. You're only watching out for your part. If he spent more that his half, that's his issue, not yours.

BTW... I don't understand why they'd even ask if you want to join him in bankruptcy. If your finances are still joint, it would be a given. If they're not, you're not responsible for what he does!

(((((HH))))))

Your WH is the worst. I hate that you have to go through this mess.

While I agree that my WH is THE WORST, I have to say his parents are THE BEST.

FIL came over today and repaired two doors that our puppy decided were chew toys. And these weren't just little repairs. He had to pretty much rebuild one of the doors. I must say, he seemed to enjoy having an excuse to use all his "man toys." I went along with him to Home Depot and he seemed to light up searching for a replacement grate for one of the doors and explaining to the sales guy why plastic isn't puppy-proof enough. And he even paid for all the items -- an added bonus.

So we spent the afternoon cutting and hammering and puttying and painting. He shared that one of the trim pieces he used actually came from the house they lived in over 40 years ago. I laughed about him saving this piece -- considering it was "two houses ago." He said you just never know when you might need a piece of wood.

And MIL. She called to verify the kids' college addresses. She's sending them Halloween cards which I'm sure will contain some cash. And she wanted me to know that since FIL will be working next week, she'll be accompanying me to court. I expressed my concern that this might upset her too much seeing her son there. She said she doesn't want me there alone and she'll be there. And she's looking forward to meeting my attorney and telling him a thing or two. I would be really surprised if D!ck and/or Bimbo don't bombard me with nasty texts for including his mom. At this point, TOO DAMN BAD. I'm not going to keep a 75 year old woman from doing what she has her mind set to do.

So there you have it. I thought the saying was "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" but in this instance, the apple fell and rolled down the street, into the gutter, and off to the rat-infested sewer. D!ck is NOTHING like his parents.

Hi there,
God sends us people in the strangest ways, they sound like great people, don't hold their son against them.......
If your husband is angry that they are there SO WHAT!!!!!
Stay strong and let God and his helpers support you........
You can be proud of yourself............

[quote=Holyheart][quote=ChaiLover]
While I agree that my WH is THE WORST, I have to say his parents are THE BEST.[quote=Holyheart]

It is so wonderful to know that there are people like this in the world--doing the right thing even when it's not easy. Your inlaws are gold, Holy!