Mominpink,

I certainly understand ladylonglegs approach. MB is for those who decide for whatever reason to try to recover the M. Nearly all of us here have been on the rollercoaster ride, been betrayed, lied to and disrespected. However, it is possible to recover a M and be in love with your spouse after an A. The path to doing this is rather narrow though and deviations from the plans are not usually successful. My H and I made plenty of mistakes in the last few years.

The posts above have described to you where to start. Do you have proof of the affair yet? Have you exposed the affair? It seems as if you are in the same place as weeks ago. Have you read the book, Surviving an Affair, and the posts in the thread for newbies? Have you made a plan?

Your husband seems very conflicted. He wants you and the OW. He has complaints about her (maybe she is putting demands on him that he does not want to do). At the same time, he talks about her. In my case, after the A, my H told me that when he was in the A and the phone rang, he would curse the phone, not want to talk to the OW, not want to meet her demands. But he always picked up the phone. This was an example of his addiction to the OW and to the A and it was strong.

If you want to bust up the A and recover your M, gather your information and expose. On the other hand, you said in several posts that your M was difficult all along. No one would fault you for asking H to leave and divorcing him.

AM

thank you lady and army mama for your support and words. i have not heard from pi yet today(i am thinking i will this weekend) he is waffling quite a bit and puts this move out on his therapist(and atty i have come to find out today). he says it's an "unconventional approach" i said, 'i don't know how we can work on our marriage when you live elsewhere". we had a talk this a.m. i am getting better and better at plan a-no fussing, very calm, sweet . sorry for my OWN ambivelence. i am strong and i have faith i can get through this. thank you so much
ps i have read the book

you are being very smart, stay calm even wen it hurts, the bigger plan is what you have to focus on.
before you make any moves, come here get the plan straight in your head and then move forward with the end result as to what you keep your eye on.....
this is a long road either way, the key is to stay strong and keep your objective so you come out of this either way a better person.........
right now you can't let your emotions rule your decisions, your logic side needs to take over a little.
this isn't easy but anything worth having isn't without a fight or some work......
it's the one who thinks things through, understands all the facts and is willing to do the work that wins........
don't forget that the one thing your husband and the OW forgot about was you and what you are capable of. They have underestimated you and your strengths, in every marriage one person has to take over when the other is weak, this is your time.....

thanks jessi!
we were even flirting earlier and gosh, it feels like forever since we did that. it's all of these unresolved/fresh/old/reawakened feelings that are all jumbled up. i generally have used them antra "i have hope for our marriage" at least once when we have these serious conversations.
yes, i realize i have to be strong(and my faith is holding me up right now, believe me!) and blessed people like YOU
ps i just looked at your stats. Good for you! that encourages me greatly

MIP,
You're doing well, but do make sure the PI gets the info before ow goes on trip.

And hopefully he will get busted and you will do a thorough nuclear exposure as soon as you get the proof. Please do that. You're doing great plan a (the carrot). Now get the proof and do the STICK of the plan and whomp the affair with a really biiig stick!

Wishing you well!

peachy
thank you! i don't know what pi got this week. i really don't? i am praying for strength.

ps your signature story encourages me, either way . blessings to you

mom, only you can decide the course of your life. My concern,though, is that you have five children who will be affected. Don't do anything in haste except protect yourself and kids. Did you move the money? What happened there?

he didn't do anything with the money, mb. he said he is just trying to get the finances in order. i am discouraged by his ambivelence . but tonite we went to a neighborhood party for trick or treat and we did ok together .
waiting to hear from pi...nervous as h e double toothpicks

Don't be nervous MIP. Getting the news is a good thing after all, if you were a patient, and had been feeling sick for a long time and had tests run, you'd want to know the results so you could find out and fix the reason you were feeling bad right?

Same with results from the PI. You're M was feeling sick and you think you know why. You gotta find out what is going on before it can be fixed.

Just watch your wh and his actions and do as MB also suggested above and protect you and the kids at all costs. Do watch the finances. My xwh spent so much of our (yes I helped him with his company)$ to finance his cheating and the subsequent affairage. Just watch the $ and keep an eye on what he does.

Good that he saw home and family as fun last night. WS want a reason imho to come home. They have to want that, and their bs, more than the addictive pull of the destructive ema ok.

Hoping you get the info you needed from the pi. Be brave! Pulling for you

Have you tried to talk to him about the importance of both of you working on this together? It only makes sense - you're both spending/saving the money. You both should know what's coming in, going out, and where it's going.

he agreed we'd sit down and do it together, then take a more "dave ramsey money makeover" approach(envelopes per category i think) so that we(I) don't overspend.
i stayed up half the night with my older kids and then went to bed around 4;30am, woke up after an awful dream about ws telling me who the ow was(funny it was another gal he used to work with) AND that he wanted to be with her(all said with a cheshire cat grin on his face). i woke up shaking and was really sick all morning. ws asked me what was wrong. i simply said i didn't want to talk about it. he prodded me on way to, and after church but i never told him. we had a very nice family meal, he and i talked awhile, he told me that he wants this(meaning us) to work but it has to or it's over. i have been doing well at controlling my emotions. whenever i want to cry or scream, i simply shut up. that usually forces him to talk more(which is funny, because he's always been so quiet and introverted) i feel confused, ambivelent myself. i am petrified over what pi will tell me tomorrow(she said she has a 48hr waiting period after a surveillance-i didn't get a report sat so i am assuming she found something). ws also had his passport with his stuff(wallet, blackberry, etc) and you-know-who just went to china for a couple of weeks, so i don't know if that is wishful thinking on his part?
i am trying not to weaken and it's hard because he has me half-convinced that there's nothing going on anywhere.....this is normal right?
will keep you posted. thanks for your support which keeps me going!

Okay, sister. Hang in there and keep us informed.

waiting to hear from PI this morning, nervous and exhausted but using time to read informative posts.
so, i will be right here asking for help when PI gives info.

then plan b-after we did the bills together last evening, i thanked ws for his patience and for taking leadership(one of his big contentions in our marriages is that i am controlling-well with a workaholic, emotional detached spouse, SOMEONE had to take charge of our lives) he said ,'it's going to be ok". i said "i dont want you to leave" he said, "i don't want to leave". he's going to therapist today(which ws claims is really pushing him to leave as is atty he saw last week) i found apartment info in his "secret" journal, which he keeps in his laptop carry case and he did admit to looking at apartments online(they are furnished which i thought odd cuz ws keeps saying WE haev way too much stuff and it hasn't made him happy, that he just needs a bed and a tv) ha!
so, i had requested to him that he also speak to a pastor before he decides to go. he said he would this week. A. how can i believe he has? and B. then when he leaves, do I go to plan B, and what is this "darkness" everyone keeps talking about? ws said he'd continue to do the bills with me, but other than that, do i not speak to him at all? does he have to call to see the kids? someone clarify please....

Yes go to plan B when he leaves, when we mention go DARK DARK DARK that means no emails, no text, no FB, NOTHING do not see or talk to him. Find someone you know that can be an IM so if he needs to talk to you about the kids then he HAS to go through that person first.

Being "dark" means not speaking or seeing WS at all, not even to pay bills. You'll have to figure out how to continue to manage monthly expenses without involving him. He can call and speak to the kids, but he can't use them to send messages to you. All arrangements for visitation and any questions pertaining to day to day living will have to go through the IM (intermediary).

can that person be my 22yr old who lives at home and is in grad school?
ws has therapy appt today so i am waiting to see what transpires...

also, then have daughter find out that he is paying the bills and report to me?

i didn't realize dark meant invisible, and why/how exactly does that save my marriage?

also, is he made aware of this or do i just do it when he leaves? i don't get it exactly

so, now what? spoke to pi, she trailed ws twice-now all she knows is what he looks like and where he parks . she said she will find out tomorrow or wed if ow is in fact out of country or that was a lie...i feel like this is futile. all of his stuff is password protected. he works in a protected keycard entry office, etc etc.
he did slip up and leave attorney business cards by wallet this weekend. he did leave receipt for new bank account in his wallet. but i doubt i will find correspondence from his honey . i am going on very little sleep today and i have a 5yr old playing away in the tub. ws is probably at his creepy therapist right now getting advice to leave for awhile and "find his happiness". i could cry.
have been reading past posts getting more info. was really praying to expose so soon. can't do it without the goods

mom - you need to read up and educate yourself on Plan A and Plan B. Do you have the book *Surviving an Affair*?

In short:

Plan A is when you (1) make any needed changes in yourself to show your spouse that you can be a desirable marriage partner for him/her, and (2) do everything you possibly can to bust up the affair, especially exposing it to practically everyone who knows the WS and their OP.

However - Plan A almost never works on its own. It is mostly a setup for Plan B. That's why there IS a Plan B.

If you do a good Plan A for something like 4-12 weeks - whatever you can tolerate, but three months is about the limit - and the affair is still going on, then you go to Plan B.

In Plan B, you first give the WS a letter explaining that it is simply too painful for you to continue living with them as long as they are continuing their affair. Then, you go "dark". The WS lives elsewhere and you do not see them or communicate with them in any way. You should not know anything at all about what they're doing.

You have an intermediary (IM) to filter messages from the WS and ONLY give you the basic information. The IM removes any complaining or cruelty from the WS's messages. Instead of, "Why is mominpink5 being so petty and selfish? She's a real B%*$@ not to talk to me and you can tell her I said so! I will get the kids at 5:00 tomorrow night and she'd better stop acting so crazy!" the IM would ONLY send you the message that "WS will pick up the kids tomorrow night at five." The rest of the junk is removed and you never see it.

You do this to remove yourself from the cruelty and selfishness of his cheating so that you don't have a nervous breakdown and so maybe you still have some love left for him if he ever gets himself back on track.

It also shows the WS what divorce will be like and *sometimes* wakes them up, but mostly Plan B is to protect you and the kids from a cheating spouse.

I know you're busy, but please read up on this. Your family depends on it.

P.S. No, the IM should absolutely NOT be your daughter. No child, even one of that age, should be used as a messenger between parents whose marriage is breaking down. No child should ever be put in that position.

Find a strong friend with character who is willing to do this for you. There is a thread here on exactly how to be an IM.

gosh, thank you. we are fairly new to this area(state) so it's going to be very hard to find an IM to help me with this stuff? i am losing it today, can't believe he is putting me through this, nerves are raw, and to top it all of, he is a liar and he's in love with someone else. what is the success rate of plan B? i don't think i have the stamina to do this for months on end, waiting for someone who may never come home
i have been implementing plan A out of the last 29 days(day he said i'm done) for 24 days but it may as well be 3 years. i am so spent, tired and worn out . i know, it's a pity party but somehow he's getting rewarded for his really bad and sinful behavior?