No we don't mb, but I like your definitions. Should this have its own thread?

So DFWW (defogging WW- kinda works maybe?) And I were talking last night and somehow it came up where she stated she will never do this again. I asked her how she knew that. She stated she knew because:
She loves me
Doesn't want to hurt me
Didn't think she was 'that' kind of person, and doesn't want to be again

And about 4-5 more similar reasons...

What do they have in common?

They were all true before the affair, they are all 'feelings' that can change, none are actions, and most importantly,

none are EPs.

So I asked Weren't all those true 3 years ago? Of course she said yes. So I asked, 'well, what's different now that makes you so sure you won't do it again?'

Said she had to think about it, that she just doesn't think about 'this stuff' all day like I do. That she would answer me tonight.

I don't want it to feel like I am a damn teacher. I have read EPs to her from this site, SAA, and Jenjnifer talked with us extensively about them.

Another question...

SF last night, trying to keep this PG-13.
She treats me different than OM. LOTS different. Some of it I am ok with but some of it is different between us from even before her A.

I don't think its a DJ to say, "this is what we did (actions), this is the way you were during A, this is what we do now, what changed?" Its not accusing her or presupposing anything, its stating perceptions of facts and requsting an explanation.
Some of this stuff makes me feel like she is just 'letting' me 'use' her and that she doesn't really want it, aned THAT is a DJ I know, but I think the above takes the DJ out and just makes it something we can explore and solve together.

Thoughts?

I'd say she's still de-fogging and isn't in a position to make a statement like that. Actually, NO one can really make a statement like that and be totally honest. Her actions have already proved what we all know: everyone is capable of having an affair when certain conditions are met. So whether or not she would ever intend to have one again is pretty much a moot point. (I got the same statements from my H, and I appreciated his making them, but it still doesn't change anything going forward, you know?)

The important job you both have at this point is to rebuild and recover your M. That does require EP's, as you've noted. That's just how it is. So your DFWW is going to have to take action, not just talk about it. That's when you'll start seeing significant recovery.

I agree that it's not really a DJ, but it may put your WW on the defensive, which serves no one.
I think SF should be a POJA item - I wouldn't spend a lot of time on comparing pre-A and post-A sex. Can the two of you be O&H with each other about what you enjoy during SF? Mutually meeting each others' sexual needs is a great bonding action. I don't think it has a lot to do with comparing pre- and post-A performance.

mmmm...wonder what she was watching at 9pm last night on TV...

Housewives of Beverly Hills?

As far as "never gonna cheat again"?

Steve Harley once told me that the answer to that question is the question...."What's your plan?"

You BOTH need EP's to affair proof your marriage. It doesn't hurt to mention that statistically, YOU are the one most likely to have the next affair so if she values the marriage incorporating EP's are important to both of you...equally.

As far as the seeming lack of feeling during SF?

I think a recently wayward spouse isn't "feeling" much about anything in their lives. They are kind of empty and searching for quite some time. They have their own individual process of coming to terms with what they've done and being able to address it and (re)find value in themselves. They don't trust their feelings, yet they are a ball of feelings at the same time...many of them negative. "Love", to them, is just too hard and scary...so they just go through the motions.

The "action" of SF might be a bit mote for awhile...but it is action TOWARDS recovery. SF in marriage is right. She (or any recovering wayward) have to do a whole lot of "right" things in their lives before they regain the self-esteem to start feeling OK and then great about themselves again.

Coming here would be a wonderful thing for her. Discussing her thoughts and feelings with other BS's and FWS's as she moves through that process of understanding and then, eventually, disassociating herself from who she was "back then" is a difficult and ultimately wonderful thing. There is value in giving back, being helped and helping others that come behind you as you soldier your ways through this journey.

Anyway...hope to see her around here.

Mr. Wondering

quote=maritalbliss]
Why did you leave out the first part of his question?

Was it because you wanted to avoid having to answer this?


Another case where the BH does not like that he is not getting the SF he always got before the PA post PA, but now this BH has to face he never got what the OM from his WW and she isn�t giving it to her BH now or any time or ever.

I didn't include this part in my response because it is inviting OM into their marital bed. You know I don't agree with that. My answer remains the same. It's not about dwelling on what she and OM did during their A. It's about BT and WW rebuilding their M. They need to POJA their SF.

As if recovery were complete in only a few months?

BT, I just wanted to mention that your thread is really giving me and Prisca some food for thought. We appreciate it and were discussing it last night and wish you the best. Recovery is hard work. Building a good marriage in the first place is hard work.

I know Prisca put in a plug for Marriage Builders Radio; let me echo that and suggest it for you as well as your wife. It is immensely helpful to me to hear from Dr. Harley day after day, repeating these concepts over and over again. Mark1952 always says Marriage Builders is like an onion, you peel off one layer (go through the concepts one time) and there is another layer underneath. He's right.

I think that's a wonderful idea! I would love to receive something like that from my husband. Not only would it give her something to listen to, but she could hear your voice during the day.

FILSIL is one of the books that has an audio CD. We got one as part of the MB weekend, and I've listened to it about 2 1/2 times. It's probably about to wear out.

The home study course also has lots of audio material. I ripped all that to our hard drives and MP3 players not long ago.

So WW tells me she has a thread goiing on the forums somewhere but per our agreement I haven't. Checked it out. She read some to me over the phone tonight. Being here in CO without her is not cool. When I was FIRST told I was going we were planning how she could come with, but then I got told I wasn't going.

Till 2 days before the day I had to leave.

I thought I would be ok with this but it has been much harder than I anticipated. I guess MrsBT (incidentally our initials are both BT.. how weird huh?) Has asked about that and has been trying hard to,i. I guess 'prove' she is being good. I guess I feel better a bit with her posting here, but I don't know...

Just finished thrashing abs and shoulders. Bath and bed, goodnight everyone.

Hang in there just a couple more days.Stay positive! If you post during this, stay on the recovery forum. Talk to dmnm & hhh. You getting down is not helping anything. Remember your on the road to recovery WE have to stay positive

Hey, BT! How's the thin air in CO treating you?
Leave the Missus with us. Don't read her thread. Don't worry - we'll be nice!

As far as your triggers. Let MrsBT know that you intend to call her frequently. Then do so - anytime you start triggering or stressing. And be honest with her. Tell her you're triggering and just wanted to talk. If there's a specific reason for the trigger, talk about it. But don't devolve into rehashing old turf you've already covered that won't serve you. You've already covered all of that, right? The goal is to be reassured and to destress.

Let's see...what could you talk about...

Talk about something fun you'll do together when you get home. Pick a few activities and really flesh them out:

Hiking? What trail? How many miles? Do you need new hiking socks? Don't buy new boots - that's begging for a blister

Shopping? What mall? What store? Start buying for Christmas? Clothes for each other? Are you taking the kid(s) (I forget, do you have one or two? I know you've got one - I heard him on the radio, the little cutie!) to see Santa? Breakfast with Santa? Photos?

Dinner and a movie? What restaurant? What movie? Segue into 'What Was Your Favorite Movie?' Least Favorite? (I, personally, am a sucker for 'Jaws' and 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind.')

Do you want to go look at new carpet/furnishings/curtains/power tools? What store? (Consider heading to Sears, good prices and decent quality stuff. Especially tools!)

And so on. Now go back to my sentence that is in bold. Go on, I'll wait.

I gave you these sentences to read and visualize discussing with MrsBT. Everything I wrote was intended to distract you from thinking about your trigger. I want you to practice this with MrsBT. Plan it out. Write down some topics that the two of you could talk about during triggers, similar to what I wrote above. You know you'll probably have triggers while you're gone, so be ready to beat them.

OMG... THIN AIR!! As part of the hotel we get free access to a Bally Fitness Center. They have a lap pool. I tried swimming a few laps, and I am not a FANTASTIC swimmer anyway since I dont practice much and never REALLY got taught how, but I can usually do like 8-10 laps reasonably smooth.

Yeah... I felt like I couldnt breathe after one. Couldnt figure out why until I was walking out of the gym an hour later and remembered that I was a mile up in the air.

Sheesh.

Ok, so things to talk about, great idea. WW suggested a Date Night Monday night so I can try to find some ideas on where we can go.

It has been easy to avoid "rehashing" stuff because I dont really have anything specific that is triggering me. I think its just being away. I have her under various methods of surveilance and stuff, and I dont have any indication of anything specific that she is up to anything, just the anxiousness of not being there.

This training out here is pretty much the neatest thing ever, I WISH I could talk about it, but I just cant. WW is at the gym right now or else you wouldnt be hearing from me since I would be talking to her.

I am going to visit her Aunt / Uncle that live out here, possibly tonight.

Sorry for the typing mess ups on some of my posts, I am most often posting from my android. I havent been browsing SAA for a couple weeks now, I just bookmark my thread so I can go right to it.

K, here goes a new day!

:::waving hand wildly:::
I can help with this one!

Okay, here's what you do. Go to www.restaurant.com. This is a website that offers gift certificates to dining places.

Pick your restaurant. Go to the checkout to pay for your gift certificate. You'll see a place at the checkout that asks you to put in your 'code' if you have one. Type in the word "give" (no quotes.) That will take 80% off the face value of the certificate! So you can get a $25 certificate for 2 bucks!

This isn't a gimmick - I've done it.

One catch: I think this special ends today. So you've gotta get cracking if you want to do it.

On the plus side: Once you get a certificate from this website, they start sending you emails with new promo codes in case you want to buy more certificates in the future. (You can always opt out, but if you like to eat out it's great to get the emails!)

Best idea yet: ask MrsBT to check out the website as well and see if there's a place she'd like to go to. Let her take care of getting the certificate. That's a fun activity that will help her concentrate on the two of you.

So I have this app on my phone that I can type notes on so I thought I would put it to good use. I am on the airplane with connectivity shut off while i type this and will copy/paste it later. I finally get to get back home today, and bonus points my sister and her son will be visiting for the week. I rarely get to see my sister and havent even met her son yet, who is only a few months younger than ours. We are all very excited to see them together. In addition, WWs brother and his Significant Other will be coming to stay as well, so great First Thanksgiving in our house with actual family coming to visit.

I am beyond excited to be home. The lack of UA time this last week has left me wide open to triggers and being gone in the same scenario as back on D-Day has left me pretty raw. WW has been so good trying to stay positive, transparent, in contact and reassuring. I will feel better when my surveillance turns up nothing (here's hoping). Our big challenge this week will be getting our UA time even though we also have company. We will just have to be open and up front about it.

I havent looked for one, but I want to take WW skating as long as I can find the skating rink. I will just ask my phone, it knows everything.

Thats about it for now. I am always very excited to update myself on a few threads in the In Recovery area. I have not been hanging out on SAA too much. Sometimes reading other peoples stories of betrayal remind me of mine and I still need to work through that. Someday I hope BOTH WW and can browse SAA together and share our experiences and lessons learned. I am working toward a recovery, taking it as it comes, good days and bad.

There are so many awesome vets out there, thank you all for being here and giving so much of yourselves.

Then ask it why I can't make pork chops that taste like anything but shoe leather, 'k?

Seriously, BT, welcome home! That had to be occasionally tough to be gone this week, but you did it! (Plan for MrsBT to go with you next time.)

I don't get over to the Recovery forum too often - I'll have to get over there more so I can follow you guys. It's refreshing to see a couple do what works and be able to celebrate a recovered M!

So while I was gone I did some IB.

She lost her wedding rings a couple months ago, so I bought her new ones (Jennifer suggested it without hesitation when WW told her).

It has a 100 day return policy, so I felt it would be ok, because we could undo it, and she picked out her last ring, so I wanted to be able to put a ring I picked for her on her finger, that I picked for her with her in mind.

She loved it. I also said vows to her based on Care, Protection, Honesty, and Time, then asked her she would be mine and only mine for as long as she lived, her brother and my sister were both there, I asked if anyone had a problem with it, and them her as my wife.

Her brothers GF video taped it for us. I am pretty sure she loved it, she said she did.

Bad IB or ok?

FWIW I think it's awesome. I'm very happy for you and wish you the best of luck.