Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, considering this is how the weight of opinion is weighed, I respectfully bow from the conversation.

Jealousy, again, this is your M to recover if you want to. Given proper opportunity, other issue brought up here will be more readily addressed by you, as you can see directly in action day-to-day.

Best wishes!

May I suggest you begin your respect work by developing clear boundaries for yourself.

Boundaries is where a lot of people go wrong.
They think stating a boundary is an ultimatum for the other person.
Actually, a boundary is something different.

I'm going to look for a particular thread about boundaries.
I will come back and link it on your thread.

You cannot gain respect without knowing what your boundaries are.

LINK to thread

What is a boundary?

.... explained by MBer Mulan.

Start with self respect.
Respect for your core principles.
Respect for your core beliefs.

Chances are, you have been making demands, not stating your boundaries.
And, that will usually feel like an ultimatum on the other person's side.

It's a common error.

I hope this helps.

Jeal,

I have Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders. You can have it. Please IM me and I will send it to you.

I agree that Plan B before xmas is the way to go. If he asks about your promise to let him be there for xmas, tell him that you will let him know via an impartial third party. Don't break Plan B as it will just put you back to where you are now.

If it helps, try to think of your DD in your situation. Do what you would advise her to do.

Good luck and God bless.

Jealousy, I know that you are apprehensive about going into Plan B. Plan B isn't something that is easy for any BS to enter into. It feels like an end. In some ways, ways that matter, it IS an end. BUT, don't look at it like that.

Right now, focus on learning the MB principles and Plan A. Part of Plan A is preparing for Plan B and getting an end date. If you pull off Plan A WONDERFULLY(which I am sure you will), there are gong to be times when Plan B won't come soon enough.

So, have you picked something that you are going to try to POJA with WH about? I would LOVE to hear about how that goes.

How are you meeting your WHs ENs with him out of the house(other than SF)? What LBs are you guilty of committing and how have you stopped doing them?

Im apprehensive about Plan B because it seems to me (for my H anyhoo) it will be like out of sight out of mind. He says he doesnt love me anymore and doesnt miss me when hes gone, so it sounds like I would be doing him a favour. Dont you generally make someone fall in love with you by being around them? But I guess thats what Plan A is for huh? Ha answered my own question there!

You are right in the fact that he is not a typical WH. He is very stubborn and will walk away forever before admitting hes made a mistake.

Also I worry about hurting my DD's by doing Plan B before Xmas as I know they will be upset if Daddy isnt there Xmas morning. I really dont want them remembering a Xmas without him..ya know?

I guess it's a matter of perspective. Better for your daughters to miss a Christmas with a wayward daddy now, with the possibility of him turning his heart and mind around to be with them and never miss another Christmas in the future. They lose all hopes of EVER having Christmas together again if you sacrifice this coming Christmas.

And - you underestimate your value in his life if you think it will be out-of-sight/out-of-mind for him.

If you do an impeccable Plan A for two weeks, reminding him through your actions of everything that had him fall in love with you in the first place, even if he doesn't seem to notice, he will remember them when he can no longer trample and take for granted the steady companionship or access to his daughters. He will get a rehearsal for what it's like to be a part-time dad, ESPECIALLY over Christmas.

He will also learn what it's like to not take your financial support for granted. You will cut him completely off while you're in Plan B, right?

Also, it will give OW a chance to see him for what he is. They need a snoot-full of each other. You're in the way of that right now. He won't be so attractive when he's needy.

You have time to prepare.

Practice thinking in terms of boundaries and being loving at the same time - that twists most of our heads around a bit when we first get started.

@Jealousy -

You should answer these questions:

• How long is your Plan A?
• What are you going to POJA with WH?
• What ENs are you meeting?
• What LBs are you stopping?
• Do you have a Plan B Letter?

I would also recommend being in Plan B by Christmas, but for a different reason.

Christmas is almost TWO MONTHS away. Two months in Affairland is approximately equivalent to forty lifetimes in real time. I don't think it would be healthy or safe for you to push it that long, with what you've already suffered.

First things first, get a good grip on your Plan A. The same formula Pep outlined for POJA is something you should use with everything. You can't make him participate in a good, healthy M, but you can model one for him. Do your half of what a good M should look like.

In about a week, you should start preparations for Plan B. Do this even if you don't pick a date immediately. Even once you do pick a date, be a little flexible. You may find that you can't quite make it, and that's ok. If your preparations are all in order, you can go dark at any time.

In answer to your question about SF, it is very controversial. I continued during Plan A, many do not, and still R. What pretty much everyone agrees on, is that if you're going to do anything, at least use condoms. They are not perfect, but give you the most protection against potentially life-changing or even fatal diseases. Remember that you're having sex not only with WH, but also with everyone his amoral girlfriend has slept with, and everyone they slept with before her.

Whatever you do, be careful.

Hey Guys and Gals!

Just weanted to let you know I am still here and have read your comments/questions. H has been here the last couple days and any time I sit down to reply he walks in the room! So I promise I will reply and answer your questions as soon as I get enough time to myself

"WH, can you scuse me for just a few? I need to post personal details about your skankylous behavior on the internet for total strangers to read - k thanks!"

The only advice i have to offer right now is to continue to listen to these awesome people. You are getting great advice.

I will tell you at one time i was in your position... almost exactly.

What i have seen so far is a woman who can be strong and confiendent in herself but doesn't realize it yet. I know the feeling about not wanting your kids to miss a christmas with their father but as one person wrote about having it happen now vs later or on a more perment basis i would vote for that.

I think once you start setting personal bounderies you will notice your WH start to respect you. He may say names and what not but in the end it's only cause he is used to you not protecting your bounderies. Not only is it healthy for you to set healthy bounderies but also for your daughters.

You'll get the hang of it all especially if scotty is there helping you along. She is one tough cookie and very smart. You definately are in good hands.

MistyMars -
I have tried to IM and PM you but its saying its disabled?!?!

Scotty and Clark_Kent-
I have been racking my brain as to what I can POJA H with and nothing is coming to mind. I will keep thinking, Im sure something will pop up! Im just trying to think of something that he will actually be enthusiastic about

As I mentioned previously, I have been meeting his EN's as best I can, he does stay here more than anywhere else, even after he says hes not going to anymore to avoid confusion, so this works to my advantage. In regards to meeting SF, his biggest complaint is passion, so I have been teasing and flirting when hes here and through texts/IM's when hes not. Not giving it to him immediately but waiting a day or two to work it up first, this seems to be working -for BOTH of us!! LOL

I have also been encouraging him to work out daily, I tell him Im proud of him for his weight loss (hes lost almost 80 lbs) and other things he has been trying to improve for himself. As well I continue to tell him how attracted I am to him and such. I also ask questions about things he likes to talk about to spark conversation. And to my surprise he has been asking me to watch movies with him and snuggling on the couch (he rarely watches movies with me when I ask so this is awesome!).

My biggest LB would probably be Angry Outbursts. I am trying to control this by being calm, breathing and trying to think before I speak or not responding right away if its in IM/text.
He would probably say some of them are:Selfish Demands and Disrespectful judgements as per his friendship with OW. And I probably have some Annoying habits, the one I know of is whispering under my breath which I have been trying to avoid as well.

No Plan B letter as of yet. Any examples as to what I should include in this?

I'm honestly still not sure about how long I will Plan A for. I still have many reservations about doing this before Xmas. Not only for him and our girls but his family may feel disrespected as well if I dont come to their Xmas parties. His cousin just told me a few weeks ago that they were drawing names and his aunt wasnt sure to draw for me and she had said even if we're not together we are both decent enough that we would put things aside and show up.

Neak -
I understand what your saying about two months in affairland is a long time, but really, their friendship has been this close on and off for two years now. An extra two months wont kill me. As well I know my H will think Im being vengeful if I Plan B before Xmas.

Im honestly not convinced its a PA, it is and has been a very close friendship that makes me very uncomfortable. I know all signs point to PA if you dont know my H, but to him hes always thought it to be acceptable to have female friends and considers them the same as male friends. Its perfectly normal behaviour to him which is why it has been so incredibly difficult for me or anyone else, including his parents to convince him its not right. He tells me all the time that hes not trying to be disrespectful, he just doesnt see the harm in what hes doing.

As a matter of fact the other day I told him to look at it from the perspective of a female friend telling him what their H or bf is doing. He said he can see how it might look bad. I told him if he doesnt like people making assumptions, he shouldnt give them reason to assume.

You really should Plan B BEFORE Christmas. I know you don't want to. I KNOW how hard it is to enter into Plan B.

Have you read any more of my thread? I know it is a long one. I would suggest that you do read the first 40 pages.

Regardless if you believe that this is a PA or not doesn't matter with MB plans. That is the BEAUTY of the plans. They are the SAME for both EAs and PAs. My question to you about a PA is, "Would it matter to you? Would you still want to recover if it was a PA?"

Please, there have been MANY people who have not gone into Plan B at the right time. They have lived to regret it.

So, have you exposed to everyone, including the children? Part of Plan A.

If you read my thread, you will see the Plan B letter that I used. I pretty much came from SAA.

Honestly, yes it would be different if it were a PA. I dont think I would be able to recover. Its an absolute deal breaker for me.

I will not expose to my children. They are 4 and 7 they wouldnt understand and I refuse to bring them into this or cause them to think differently of their father.