I don't know what to say about the PI and China. That is frustrating for you but
you will find that whatever seemed a big deal before this infedelity isn't as big a deal anymore. It puts a different perspective on your whole sense of experiences.

You might not seem to be having him fall back in love but you do your best to 'win' his attentions back. You give him no further fuel for making you out to be a villian in the marriage and you work on strengthening your relationship by being reasonable, attractive, alluring(do your best cause that is where the OW has put her hard sell towards) and if the affair ever crumbles, you have good deposits in your account in your H's love bank.

Even if things don't seem to be turning your way

you ARE a contender

and are not going in the direction OW hopes you are going to go. Even if you go to plan B, you will be on his mind. Everything will be a comparison in his heart at that point. You will be in his dreams even if he winds up playing house with her while you take time out in the future.

It is quite a challenging task dealing with infedelity, we all know it here.

"You can't demand a WH to stop seeing a therapist"

Then how can anyone demand they stop seeing someone in a EA? This therapist is a clear threat to the marriage, saying "Just leave her". No difference imo.

You don't demand they stop seeing someone in an EA. You negotiate the best you can and have clear boundaries that you are willing to stand for.

Well, there are selfish demands and demands where you state your boundaries.

You can't see so and so ever again= selfish demand

You can't see so and so ever again due to the pain it causes me or we will need to seperate= stating what your own personal boundaries are

YK

You can not forbid a spouse to see a louse therapist but you can say" I don't feel this therapist is good. I hope you find someone else who is more useful for you".

Cabbages, one thing you discover in this MB land is you only control yourself, no one else. It was always an illusion of otherwise.

thank you all so very much. ws went to dentist and other errands. i found an apartment brochure and application. apparently he's moving ahead, even though he says he's working on our new "plan". crushed yet again but i got up, got gorgeous, wearing my best color(deep turquoise and buzzing around doing some chores.
it's all a farce and for me, i believe there won't be a plan B. when ws leaves, the end begins. i may change my tune as this goes on, but for now, i am feeling pretty resolute.
i read last night about unforgiveness and bitterness in marriage. not only is he sinning(infidelity) but hardening his heart to me will not get his prayers answered(i can't remember the scripture) so i am getting all of my spiritual ducks in a row, if you will. He is the only way I am getting through this mess.
(((hugs)))) to all fellow bs's. your support is astounding and meaningful

Reading I've been here many years unfortunately (had to add an s to my original name). I know we can only control ourselves and I couldn't force him to stop making appointments. But continuing to see a therapist who is telling you to leave your spouse...are they seeking to help the marriage, or to help end it? This is a person instrumental in the success/demise of a marriage. And there is a range of things to do between not reacting and demanding a change. I worded it terribly before "this would end"...but I think it's as dangerous as an EA and there would be consequences for sure.

I think you need to be careful not to believe everything your H tells you the therapist says......your H may be telling you what he wants YOU to think he's being advised.....it takes the pressure off of him as he can act like it isn't his idea to move out. How do you really have any idea what the therapist is saying to your H.....only through your H telling you, not from the therapists' mouth. And your H is trying to find reasons to leave so why not lie to you about what the therapist is saying?

I have a close friend who is a psychologist and she says its amazing what some of her clients tell their families that she said. They spin what they tell the family in order to justify their own behavior and make it seem like the therapist approves of their behavior. My guess is no therapist would be saying the things your H says he's being told, and would not make comments about a wife of a patient's that the therapist has never met.

Mom,

Ladylonglegs is accurate regarding the therapist - hang in there and start thinking plan B - it does work - its not a lost cause we had a lease on an apartment signed and he never moved out
but it would be nice for you to get info on ow so you know what your dealing with.

so more fun today...found his new checking account book-he already wrote a check to atty for 1500 and another apartment pamphlet. i literally shook. he tells me that "he is not doing ANYthing to undermine me" and that he wants to work on our marriage.
i'm sorry, but i am checking out of this. too painful, too volatile.
i need to find an atty pronto and get a retainer going...can't believe this is happening.
i said to him, "how are we supposed to work on our marriage when you have one foot in and the other out?"

hey mom,
Don't believe anything he says, protect yourself......and keep checking the more knowledge you have the better....
He thinks you are not smart enough to figure out things, but protect first and then negoiate......
good luck.....((hugs))

thanks jessi,
i am feeling far less emotional than earlier. i am going to contact an atty on monday and probably cash out a life insurance policy to have retainer $, so i am going to be pro-active and he's going to get what he wants...

so, didnt spend too much time together this weekend, well we did, but i knew that ws needed a break from all of the emotional banter that occurs when we spend time alone together(he often brings stuff up)
so i found an application for a safety deposit box and another apartment pamphlet. he said he was just considering the safetey deposit box to ensure i don't open anynew credit cards(i shared our debt over a week ago, he hasn't participated in the finances for 20+years so he claims he working to get "over" that new revelation of bills) he told me i could meet his attorney to discuss why he gave her the retainer fee. i just emailed him this a.m. requesting an appt with us for both of us to see her(ok you give an attny 1500 to fight a ticket you got-ws made a u-turn while taking me for a dr's appt that was confusingly signed. even the cop felt bad for pulling him over and told ws to fight it, so he needs an attorney for this? i was with him when it happened. he claims it's because he drives a corporate vehicle and doesn't need the points) whatever
i told ws yesterday that after seeing pastor this week and seeing the attorney together(fingers crossed) that he would have to s h or get off the you know what. even though i don't have proof and ow is probably out of country still, can i move to plan B?
please advise

also, ws asked me on sat what my boundaries were.(we had talked about the boundaries in marriage, protecting it from others) he said rather sarcastically, "so you expect me to work and NEVER speak to or have a relationship with another woman at work again?" i said, "no, that is not realistic. i expect you to guard your heart from stepping over the line(ws is very quiet and introverted but amazingly he has ALWAYS had female co-workers be chummy with him-must be his quiet charm and teddy bear appeal)and from putting yourself into a dangerous or tempting circumstance. he said, "you're never going to trust me". i said, "no, i don't trust other people and like a mother bear, i want to protect what is mine-YOU" then i just shut up because he continues to make allowances for his own behavior inside his head....
i am sitting here stewing over plan B posts, thinking it is probably the way to go. it has been 36 days of well, about 31 days of plan a and although at times, ws is softening towards me, he still has one foot in, the other out.

pss...anytime we discuss the above, he accuses me of accusing him of cheating and gets very defensive

Have you been able to get to his Blackberry?

You're in a tough spot, mom. It's hard to get the goods if OW is out of the country.

Only you can tell when you're ready to go to Plan B. That involves no contact with your H. Have you read up on it, and are you ready to move to that?

You need to read up on the site. You are stressing about the wrong things.
You are doing an A+ job snooping. You can control yourself, but not your H current actions.

Do not be derailed about an appartment application. That is a waste of your energy. Focus on your PA and things you can change.

you are on the right track.

I dont think plan B will work until or if he signs a lease and moves out - it would be too hard unless you ask him to leave - where would he be able to stay?

he has looked at two apartments that i know of, gotten literature, and an application. he is expecting a sizable bonus in january. i think he's trying to put off leaving til he has that xtra $ to bank on.

what is PA? personal agenda?

PA= Plan A. Focus on your Plan A.

Whoa! For a second that I thought mom had jumped into her own PA! (physical affair)

well....since i am working out, losing weight, i am becoming quite the COUGAR

thanks for the love and support. I just got on the elliptical and prayed for my ws. No matter what happens, I am going to honor God and be a good example for my children(I hope)