With the caveat: do that at the same time as you deliver the Plan B letter, or slightly before. You want to leave the best possible impression of the husband you can be when she comes to her senses. Be the sweet, loving, kind, gentle husband, even voluntarily giving her a little cash to "help out" with her getting started in her new apartment if you'd like (Financial Support at play here).

And THEN bring the hammer down. Don't mix the signals prior to the Plan B letter; you're in Plan A until you're in Plan B. Don't be a doormat, but try not to withdraw any Love Units immediately prior to the Plan B letter. You want her to be very, very surprised that you're putting your foot down on the affair, and to realize you mean business about no-contact with her until she's agreed to stop seeing OM, commits to various EPs (that will be the purpose of your first "date" to end Plan B, should that day come: confirming the EPs she's putting in place), and agreement to a program of marital recovery together.

Yes to what DNM said. Understand: You don't want ANY marital money going to support the A. This could be a huge wake-up for your WW - if she's used to financial support, she's going to need some in order to set up her affair-nest. OM may not like that.

The apartment is GOOD because of your kids? Don't quite understand where you're coming from with that. If she is not employed, how does she get an apartment and lay down the necessary deposit, first months rent, set up utilities, etc? Has she been taking money out of your accounts on a regular basis? Do you monitor your finances? You seem entirely too trusting for someone whose wife has been cheating, almost bordering on gullible - you don't REALLY believe they had sex only once, right?

I dont want to offend you or anyone else here who is religious, but perhaps you ought to set aside the church and any repentance process, and, as one poster seemed to suggest, that Satan is involved here. Your wife is just your common garden variety cheater involved in a sordid affair, and doesn't seem to feel that your beliefs are any hindrance at all so perhaps you ought to drop that line of thinking and work the MB program exclusively and worry about the getting back into the good graces of the church later. You did great on the exposure part but you now need to get more of the stick part going in the carrot/stick of Plan A.

It seems to me if she really was committed and was starting the repentance process, she would be moving home to make amends to you and repair the marriage. Why would she want to be apart if she was so remorseful and wanting to be with you and never speaking to OM again? I don't believe her for a minute.

She will not be transparent or accountable if she has an apartment. She won't be able to show you her behavior and attitude is different, because she is not home! You will not know what is going on in her life.

I totally agree with the other posters that this is the best way for her to continue on with OM without hassle. Full custody for you during this time means she won't have to find a sitter to be with OM. (Although much better for you and the kids).

She is still thinking about herself and OM. Not you. Not your children.

Mark,

In addition to EMPHASIZING that NC is mandatory, as are EPs and commiting to 'a marital rfecovery program' (by which I read appointment with the Harley's), I have one more thing...

You need to EMPHASIZE that you are fighting FOR YOUR FAMILY.

This seperation IS NOT what you want. You are a father and a husband and the best thing for YOUR FAMILY is that your wife cease this affair, come home, and commit to repairing your relationship.

You seem to be way too 'hands off' in allowing her to go off to her sisters or SAY NC with no EPs. Obviously you can't force her to do anything, but YOU CAN and SHOULD have boundaries. If she leaves your house, whether to go to her sisters, or get an apartment, THAT IS NOT GOOD FOR YOUR FAMIILY. Regardless if the PA continues, her not being there is bad for your family and bad for your marriage.

Not coming home, for all intents and purposes might as well be the same as moving in with OM.

You need to treat it as such.

Don't finance an affair. Who is paying for this apartment? I hope its not you, because then you are contributing to the destruction of your family, and lowering your personal boundaries. You are teaching your kids that they should shield people from the consequences of their actions, even at great personal expense.

Is that what you want?

Whose idea was this sister trip or this new apt thing? Hers? She's a totally fogged falling wayturd drunk, you trust her thinking? Yours? Your thinking got you into this and onto this site (thanks Melody Lane, this was the statement that opened my eyes when I went through this)

Your wife is going to remember your actions, whether or not your marriage succeeds.

Do you want her to remember the man who let her go?

Or the man who fought relentlessly with no quarter to bring her home, protect her children, all while allowing her to make and live by her own choices?

Also, @ americajin's post:

I happen to agree that MB minus god works just fine, however, if your WW and you want to include the church IN ADDITION to counseling with Harley's, I don't think it would be bad at all. Include your bishop or w/e its called (sorry I don't know...) on your MB stuff, explain to them and get their support. Harleys are very christian focused, though thankfully jennifer didn't try to force it on my WW and I. I am sure they can be quite accomadating and cooperative with help from your church.

Your church can provide you and her with support, and more ways to ensure NC.

Neither is bad, just get everyone on the same plan.

What DNM and maritalbliss are suggesting is exactly what I had planned. I am going to be as good to her as I can be for the next few days, until she gets herself setlled in. After that, complete shutdown. Separation of finances is already being taken care of. No more money from Papa Bear- she's on her own. Hopefully, she will realize her mistake before too long. I have no intention of allowing her to come home without firm commitment to NC/EP, and I have already let her know that if/when that happens, this will be the last chance. If she comes back with those promises, and I discover that she is sneaking around again, that will be it.

Okay, let me be perfectly clear here- I am not financing this separation in any way. WS now has a job, and she is completely on her own financially. I was not in support of the trip to sister's, but I can't "allow" or "not allow" my wife to do anything. She is an adult. I am fully aware that there is a great likelihood that she may continue the A at this time. There is nothing I can do about that, except Plan B, wait and see if she changes or not. It may be that this A has to burn itself out. She has a choice to make- OM or our family. If she chooses our family, I am willing to give her a chance. If she continues to choose OM, then I don't want her back anyway. My primary focus at this time is the physical/mental/emotional/spirtual welfare of my children.

I think you're doing great. Keep doing what you're doing. There are a couple of things that are going to happen that may well tip your WW back to the M:

1. The reality of not seeing her children whenever she wants is going to gnaw at her maternal instincts. This will cause conflict within her. She will take that conflict out on OM and eventually blame him for her inability to see her kids whenever she wants.

2. The reality of openly conducting an A and living away from her family will likely be difficult for her. Does she drink? She may begin drinking more heavily to drown the guilt that is within her, however deep she's tried to bury it.

3. The fantasy glow of the A is going to wear thin over time, as real-life stuff intrudes. Paying bills, making ends meet, doing housework, the discovery of personal habits and personality quirks that aren't attractive - all the stuff of reality that normally takes a back seat in an A.

I know this sounds counter-intuitive, mark, but I hope the OM moves in to your WW's apartment. Then she can deal with all the above, plus the logistics of having to see her children away from OM. Because you'll make that a stipulation of her visitation rights.

Close but not quite. I mean choose one of the three programs on this page: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi9000_courses.html .

Reality of the situatio w/ kids is already setting in. She has already tried to pass the "telling the kids mommy's moving" duty over to me. No way, she's not going to miss out on that. She doesn't drink, unless that is a new habit she has picked up w/ OM, it wouldn't surprise me, though. Exposure has pretty much shattered the fantasy glow. OM lives in another city, so likelihood of him moving here is slim. Plus, she knows that I will not tolerate him being around my kids. Given the proximity of her apt. to our home, it would be extremely difficult for her to see OM there without everyone in the neighborhood knowing about it. We live in a small community with lots of family members nearby, so everything that happens at her new apt. will be known almost instantly (just the nature of a small, family community).

Very good. I forgot OM was in another city - even better.

Here's what she's going to be dealing with: lots of time on her hands when she's not working. Without OM consistently contributing deposits to her LB by being physically around, she's going to be at odds with herself. She's going to be depriving herself of the EN's she gets by being at home.

Yep, I'd say make her accept responsibility for her actions, and sit back and let exposure do its work.

DNM, I have gone back and re-read your 4mth and 1yr threads, and the beginning stages sound remarkably similar to mine. Since your wife is LDS and you are former LDS, I'm sure you understand the significance of WS beginning the formal repentance process w/ Bishop. I will take that as a very positive sign, if/when it occurs. Thanks for being here, your success gives me a glimmer of hope, when at times it seems I have no hope at all.

Her moving out will cause exposure to be even more widespread. Enough people know about the A, that when questions start to arise about her new residence, 2+2 will equal 4. Again, the nature of a small community. Before the A, she has always been an extremely good mom, completely devoted to the children, so I expect this to be extremely tough for her. One of her top EN's is admiration, and she will be getting none from family.

Happy to help. I recognize the significance of confession to a bishop; it indicates a willingness to own one's behavior, and that is a very helpful sign.

However, I will point out that leaders are instructed that the purpose of confession & discipline are to save the souls of transgressors, protect the innocent, and safeguard the good name of the Church. A Bishop's counsel is aimed at those targets... not saving the marriage.

That's up to you and your wife. So when the reality of the situation hits her, be ready for the hard work to really start!

It took my wife about a month after the no-contact letter to go see her Bishop. Since her transgression wasn't sexual, and she'd decided already to stop seeing the other man, no discipline was imposed. Her bishop was one of my first exposure targets; it helped that he was a family friend already.

Good luck in your journey. The main benefit to LDS culture that I see is that, among those who are temple-married, the divorce rate is exceptionally low, infidelity is strongly discouraged, and the community supports a MarriageBuilders-style approach. In fact, my wife and I last night discussed the possibility of running a weekly free class in her church using "His Needs, Her Needs", "Love Busters", and "Five Steps To Romantic Love" as the textbooks.

Don't keep any secrets for her, and identify the reason squarely if anybody asks. If a church-goer asks "where's Wanda today?", respond "she moved out to spend more time with her boyfriend. How are you doing today?"

Clear, to the point, and ends that line of questioning. It might mean your wife will want to move out-of-state when she comes home, though.

I would only advocate not following this approach if you're aware that the person you're speaking to is, themselves, an unrepentant wayward. Unfortunately, LDS culture also typically very secretive about this kind of thing. Most people outside of the immediate family -- even those who had known her for decades -- were entirely unaware my mother's seventeen-year marriage was to her affair partner!

Thanks for calling that one! Noted and will remember in the future!

UPDATE: WS has now moved into her new apt., children are staying with me, with regular visits to her. She has agreed to NC, but not to sending NC letter. She made a full and complete confession to our two teenage daughters, including a promise to them that the A was now over and that she was trying to make changes in her life to become a better person and a better mother. That was huge for her, as this is the first time that she has even mentioned the A to them, even though she knew I had exposed to them. She was extremely remorseful, and it was emotionally draining for her. In fact, she physically collapsed into my arms after talking to each of them. Her entire attitude has changed from one of belligerence and defiance to one of humility and remorse. Even when I screw up my Plan A and argue with her, it now results in tears rather than angry confrontation. She seems to be back into serious withdrawal (which I have seen once before when she made a serious attempt at NC), which makes me believe that she is trying to keep NC. She admitted to me last night that OM had sent her an email, to which she responded with a request that he not contact her anymore. Obviously, my snooping opportunities are limited with her out of the house, but every indication is that NC is in place. I have checked on several things and so far everything has checked out. I am not na�ve enough to believe that this is necessarily the case, but not much I can do at this time. I plan to continue Plan A as best I can for the foreseeable future. A complete Plan B will be very difficult, due to dealing with the children, proximity of our homes in our small community, and the fact that we attend the same church. I have read on other threads about a �modified Plan B� or a �180 Plan�, wherein the BS does not initiate any contact with the WS, but when interactions occur, they continue to Plan A. Is anyone familiar with this? For the LDS posters, or those familiar, she did attend all 3 hours of church yesterday, and had a brief conversation with the Bishop about making an appt. for an interview. My thoughts have been that if she made this commitment to our daughters, and then began the formal process with LDS Bishop, that would be two huge indicators of her seriousness and sincerity. (One down, one to go.) Meanwhile, I am still very worried that she will break NC, but not sure what I can do about that.

I do not like the fact that she has her own apartment, she needs to move in so you can keep tabs on her and ensure that there is NC.

Seeing the bishop is a step but I'm still worried that she is just gas lighting everyone so she can still have OM. We will find out though

Good luck!

I don't like it either, but I wasn't really given any choice. I am very sensitive to the possibility of gaslighting, and will be paying close attention for its signs. Exposure continues to work its magic. I can't overemphasize how big it was for her to fully confess to two teenage daughters, and to commit to them that she was through with OM. I believe her intentions are sincere, just not sure about her will power. Since her move, she has busied herself with the kids, church activities, and even a "date" with me on Friday. I visited her last night, and the familiar depression of withdrawal was evident. She is being fairly open about her difficulty with NC and withdrawal, which is also something new. In the past, she has always denied this. As you say, we shall see.