Have you considered, that he (dysfunctional) believes that his work IS his marital contribution?

His LB behavior is another extension of this dysfunctional belief.

Have you read SAA? Do you remember "Jon and Sue?"

Question: would you be saying all of this if he was faithful and you didn't suspect an A?

Lady Birds, you are-a singing my song.

I am very alpha. Do not see that as a bad thing at all. My H is a very successful engineer who had tons of responsibilities at work. At home, he happily let me run the show. HAPPILY.

I was Martha Stewart on crack! He constantly complimented me on a job well done... or so I thought.

Blew up big time in my face about the age of 40.
We still have HUGE cotrol issues.

Oh yes, I suddenly fell from supermom to the "Overbearing, manipulative, unkind blankity-blank.."
and he WAS (and to as certain degree even today) the perpetual victim.
Hit me like a ton of rocks.. in the face.

I, like most alphas, really had no idea.
I didn't mean for it to turn out this way... I had a lot of pride in the way I treated my family..

In fact, we spent years in therapy trying to untangle stupid rules, when the underlying reason was never addressed... we both wanted to have control, we both wanted to be right.
The more you lose control and feel insecure, the more you desire to keep it, the less you trust someone, the less likely you are to give them control. Viscious cycle.

Lots of long term marriages have to face this type of dynamic change. It has taken me years of reading, to even come to this point.

POJA was/is next to impossible if there are underlying issues like this behind it.

I have concluded it doesn't matter how it was, it could still have happened if any emotional need was not met

House could have been too clean or not clean enough
Could have not traveled the world together or gone to the rain forest and so on
Could be the best looking hottest mama/pop or not (have worn thongs or not)
Could be controlling or neglectful of participation.

Just one stinkin' emotional need not met sets the whole boundarie crossing, blameshifting ball in motion.

That being said....I am not much kinder to myself. I don't expect perfection. There is no such thing. I don't expect it of my wayward (he obviously has f l a w s)

That is life. Hope springs eternal and all that.

your descriptive quote describing yourself was me too - sometimes there needs to be a captain running things though
I totally relate to your post - finding out was like a brick to the head - resentment is definately something you come to terms with during the recovery process - I am emotionally drained reading "moms" posts - its even making me trigger so
went to the gym - killer workout and now feel better.

what i resent was the fact that he came home, laid on the couch, drank and went to bed. there really was very little relationship between us(which of course we both now realize was wrong but seemed unavoidable) now he is having his "awakening" ie MLC(mid-life crisis) and all of his emotions(the bad ones towards me) are bubbling up and out. i have enjoyed being a mother thoroughly but HE resents that HE didn't get more of me. we had two more kids in our 40's which really knocked me on my can a bit. he does very little with them, prefers to watch tv alone after work. many many signs of depression have been there for years but he won't acknowledge...
it is a hellish life and y'all have been huber supportive and focused. it is such a rollercoaster, much like 'you're dying, nope. two hours later, wrong diagnosis, you're gonna live, next day, nope you're dying. the rollercoaster of emotion is of such great magnitude.
in fact, we have an appointment with a pastor at 5 and school called to tell me our 6yr old threw up. nothing like the evil one to try and throw a wrench in the plans.
i will persevere :), and let you know how it goes.
thanks for sharing your "success" story goldengirl. it is encouraging. was there ow?

maritalbliss,
yes i would still say those things. he has let me run the relationship, the house, the kids, the finances and NOW, now he tells me that he didn't want it that way. ????? very hard to hear that my own martha stewart tendencies were WORTHLESS in his eyes-the clean house, the pretty kids, the good grades(kids not me), the hot, hot sex, in the car!, the everything.
and NOW, NOW he wants to find himself and that special someone who can make him "happy" hahaha. really? ok, and how'bout a harley too?
i have reduced my housework by say 70% the last 36 days due to the stress of this craziness, and you know what? house still standing, no bugs yet(joke) and kids are alive, too! i did strongly identify myself with WHAT I DID, not who i am , because i think i was justifying for years being at home with kids and not having some stellar career(even though ws and i agreed together that i'd stay at home once we had our first child)
i have gone to marriage weekends, retreats, IC, etc for years working on our marriage. and i now know that you CANNOT work on, save, grow a relationship by yourself. Sadly, ws found another garden in which to grow
between the vomit and the bloodshed, i'll keep you posted

(((mominpink)))) a lot of what you describe is H (except he demanded doing finances, I can't imagine that extra burden). All the resentment is coming out, toward his parents too. You were smart to reduce the housework, sounds like you were overdoing it and the only way we can stop overdoing is to see that the world doesn't come crashing in if we stop!

Have you considered that it might not be the 'evil' one, but the 'good' one who did this?

Yeah, but. You didn't do anything until you got a wake-up call. So you've both gone drifting through your M all these years, with some attempts here and there to shore up a neglected M. But it sounds like your energies have mainly gone into house & children. I'm not saying that's a bad thing or that you're a terrible couple. It happens so often that it's unusual when it doesn't. I just wonder if there is any chance you can renew your M if your H eventually comes on board?

My question is: if there is no affair, if your H is just disenchanted with M and life in general, do you still want to end this? Because if you truly do, and you feel that you are better off without him, I'd go to Plan D.

Allright. Former bw here who went thru hell and back and am BACK to tell you to stand up for yourself and the kids.

We can help you w/a plan B. And still I am wondering WHY on earth you gave the ws, an alien from another planet basically (planet mememe)the checkbook in the first place.

Your kids deserve for you to fight for them, and they deserve a shot in the dark with regard to having a healed (yes one day it could be) healed and whole family. Are you going to let your H just walk away like this?

Most ema's last about 2 years in the amped up stage. It's a rollercoaster ride and you need to be wise and not react emotionally to a situation and see things more rational.

Hell I know it hurts. It hurt so bad. But I did not give in to my xwh. I was like you, living in a new state, and I did a plan B. A very very dark one. I did drop offs in public at a public place and he saw me maybe one nanosecond. No chance for talking or chatting. Just basically the back of my head. I had to do one for the same reason you have..new to my state then.

But the ws if they go unchecked and you don't try to make them become a FWS, give the family a chance, the outlook is bleak for them having any relationship with their father in the future.

My xh is now in the middle of his d to the xow and there will probably one day be another ow wife there. I wish my son could have a chance to have a relationship with his dad, but it won't happen because he never really had an opportunity to change.

Please work the plan A and plan B. Go for complete exposure. I don't get or buy how your PI did things at all. Not wise. You do not snoop for adultery info when the ow is on a business vacay. Please realize you can do this! It can be healed. You have to be stubborn and realize also that you cannot bargain with a wayward.

Nope you cannot because they are in 100 percent full taker mode and if you try to settle financially and divorce a full on wayward spouse doing things the way of the wayward, you will be screwed over big time. I have seen this happen over and over again.

Only with you HAVING A PLAN and being in the drivers' seat with that plan, and knowing you're the only one who knows 100 percent how this will turn out (if you follow a plan), then you are unstoppable. But you have to change and turn them around now.

Rolling over and letting the ws have their way, have the $, and dictate to you, the woman and family he betrayed HOW THINGS ARE GOING TO BE, is simply wrong. Do not stand for it!

Work a plan A. Work it hard until the day he leaves. Memorize please the carrot and stick of plan A. Get that info on proper exposure using the PI and expose the hell outta the ow. No mercy. None. Zero.

yes your child has depression. It's caused prob by his dad, a ws. By his dad's ema. But allowing a crazy, self absorbed ws to have $ and move out and use FAMILY FUNDS TO PAY FOR AN AFFAIR, will drain your bank account dry and that's not being a good mom. You cannot give the maniac ws full access to family funding at all.

I say do a 1000% plan A, with exposure ready to roll, and then do it after a week. Then go to B. And no mercy. No contact. No financial funding of his affair, which is HARMING his family. No funding for the ow either (and you damn well know that he is paying for her too). I am saying this with a dose of tough love because I was in your shoes. I felt my world closing in around me, and until I got enough guts to stand up to Goliath, I never knew what kind of strength inside I had.

You may reconcile and your family very well may heal from this. That would be a total joy and praise! But even if you do not, and you do end in D as I did, you will have secured some level of financial security knowing you didn't let a ws run all over your and take all the family funds. You won't worry over that. Plus you will have peace knowing you did all you could have done. If I hadn't tried all I could have, I might have had regrets. I have zero.

So if you have a firm plan, become a hard a$$ over family money, and dealing with the ws, and STICKING to the plan and working the plan A and B for all it's worth, in the end you will become a winner and your family wins too, with either a reformed, former ws as a daddy or as a tought minded mommy with a steel resolve who will heal from this and become unstoppable.

I had to go the latter route, but I am glad. I healed and kept my dignity. My ex had to face his responsibility and sins, and he ran from it, but the truth came out. I was able to have a better grip on how (for the first 5 years) my x was to pay cs for us, and I became healthy, happy, and moved on. This summer I married the man of my dreams, and life couldn't be better. But as the Steve Miller song , Jet Airliner, says, "You gotta go to hell before you get to heaven."

You must do all you can do and not give up. For your children and for yourself and for the family. Fight with all your strength, use all of your mind and do not react emotionally to the wayward (because it's useless) and devise a rock solid approach and do plan A and plan B.

Affairs are like going to war. War against an evil enemy. Dig into your foxhole, the fight might take a while, but you're the only one with a winning strategy!

Mom, you CAN go into Plan B even with no one close by to help out. You could have your IM be over emails. There have actually been and are currently MBers who are IMs for other MBers. Don't let that stop you. You just need a well trained IM and you will be FINE.

I am jumping on the Plan B wagon.

I am also going to tell you that it doesn't matter what your WH did or didn't do BEFORE. What matters right now is his affair, throwing huge fireballs at it to end it, moving on to Plan B and taking care of yourself.

Prepare for Plan B. Get it all set up NOW. Any interactions that you may have with your WH up until the moment that Plan B starts should continue to be Plan A moments. That way, whichever way this ends, you will know that YOU did EVERYTHING within your power to recover your marriage. And BONUS, you will recover yourself as well.

ok, so ws and i went to pastor-a very flat visit. ws told him the litany of things wrong with me(he uses one specific list from his journal) and i said very little. pastor yeah yeahed wh about men leading etc...i was ready to cry the entire time.
he did suggest we spend one hour nightly praying and reading Bible together. he also suggested us meeting a mentor couple. ws reluctantly agreed. we do this song and dance, "i'm done" i felt light hearted tonite so i chimed "i'll help ya pack". he goes round and round.
took ds to girlfriend's, came home, ws in bedroom watching tv, said, 'this is so hard. i can't do it anymore'. i said, 'what do you want to do?' move out?" he always looks so EXPECTANT when it's brought p, like a dog looking at a chew stick(is that for ME?)i said, do you want to meet the mentor couple? he said, 'i'll give it a try' BUT haha, i am getting used to this one, 'i am sooo close to being done'. um ok.
then he says, i just need a break for a few weeks. i said, you mean like having christmas and thanksgiving alone in an apartment? he said, or with my new family. um, ok. then he said, or i could go to ***(out of country) for a couple of weeks. i shot him a look, it was kind of funny or something. so he whipped out his laptop and says, "do you wanna see ow's picture? here, i'll show you" and proceeded to show me his staff and lo and behold there is ow(well maybe it really ISN't her and it's some other OW) i thought that was odd. i said, oh, i'm hotter than her
he said, "this is too much work". i said "life is too much work. get used to it" and on and on...
see, this morning i was resolute in letting go, like letting go, for GOOD. this is too rollercoaster painful and scary for me.
you all have great input and ideas-i am so grateful for your thoughts. they never offend and keep me centered(mostly).

I just sent this email to my precious daughter, who is suffering so much right now through this. We are best friends and aren't communicating well. She is so stressed ovee this,and grad school, and her siblings. She's 22 and the oldest and she is an amazing young woman, already helping the poor and the lowly in her field(social work). I am so proud of her. I feel like it does express some of my feelings and perspective right now

Daughter,
I can't put into words how hard it is to watch you suffer. I am incapable of holding everything up. I do not sleep, eat or rest. My mind is filled with the what ifs? What if he leaves today? What if he comes out of his fog and wants to be the man he is supposed to be? What if I can't find housing for us that I can afford? What if my car breaks down? What if DS has another crisis? What if I can't find a job? ALL of these things swirl around in my head, ALL DAY AND NIGHT.
The pain I have felt in this is like nothing else ever in my life. I did not realize the level of commitment I have been living, with someone who could give a sh@t about me, my feelings or his own family. I have done nothing but GIVE to him and to this family for its entire existence and yet it's unraveling and I cannot stop it.
I am worn, worn way down in my soul. I call out to God through the night and day, I sing hymns in my head as a reminder that HE is going to do GOOD things in our lives, that He is here for me, for us, at all times. I want answers, NOW. I want closure, NOW. I want resolution, NOW. I want apologies, NOW and yet I wait and wait and wait for things that will come in their time, not mine.
I envision our life going forward-a humble little existence filled with the same love and devotion to one another that we have had our whole lives. I think of making new memories and recovering somewhere ahead, and finding peace and new joy, and maybe even new people to love.
I also think of reconciliation, of your dad "getting it", of him realizing the GIFT of THIS family, and of making us whole.
It's such a split-and I vacillate all day and night over these thoughts. I can't imagine the calories being burned just by my thoughts over this mess.
The rejection is HUGE, it's huge. I walked down an aisle, innocently and full of hope for good things coming from our union. Much damage, baggage on both sides shaped bad habits and behavior. Can they be fixed? Absolutely. Must they be acknowledged and reconciled? Yes. I have played my part in this mess and I have tried to own it, without pride or puffed-up Christian babble, just trying to do the right thing. Your father has his own agenda right now andthat is one that does not include me, or us. It is excruciatingly painful to accept and difficult to ignore.
The waves of sadness, despair, regret, grief come and go in my day. I think of NOTHING else, no tv shows, no hobbies, no activities, just this huge LOSS that i am in the midst of. Death is final, it's swift and presents itself in a moment. It doesn't go away. It doesn't waffle. It is final. It is the end.
I am waiting, hoping and praying for the end of all of this. And yet it doesn't come. Each day stretches out long and challenging for me, knowing there is pain at any second, mixed with strength, hope and resilience. i am not some super woman, who can function amidst this emotional chaos.
I am praying and trying my best to follow God in this process. More than anything, I want to do His will in my life. Am I supposed to give up? I don't know. Am I supposed to fight for what I want? I don't know. It changes in the blink of an eye.
I don't know the outcome. I don't have the answers. i am navigating down a road I have not been on before. I pray and try my best to trust that I am smart enough, intuitive enough and good enough to make decisions that will benefit our family.
I know I have to push forward and move on, regardless of which dirction I/we are headed. I can do this, I have to do this, for me, for us.
I am sorry for the pain and isolation you and your siblings feel. I have you all in my heart every nanosecond of this ordeal, and my goal is to make sure that you are all okay when this is over. I have been through much suffering and tragedy in my life. I am strong enough to get through this, but on the moments that i am not, well, I am not.
I could not love anyone more than you, DS, DS, DS and DD. You are all what matters most to me.
I have not loved your dad the way he wanted/needed to be loved. He is a very wounded person who cannot cope with his feelings. he is panicked and thrashing about in his life, and trying to take down whoever is in my path(me). He doesn't know how to float(the Lord) so he is using all of these peripheral things to try and remain above the waterline. I know he can't do it, and God knows he can't do it. But he is exhausting himself(and me) trying his damndest to hold onto his pride and his sin. He will bottom out, he will go on, with or without me and our family. I do not know the outcome yet, but I do know that when all is said and done, I want YOU, my children, to KNOW, to BELIEVE that I, your MOTHER, did the right thing. As painful and devastating as it has been, I have to keep on this course till the road ends.
please forgive me for my own separation. I am using reserves I didn't know I had just to survive my days. You and your siblings are my priority, but i am also heading towards MY future, and I don't know what that looks like right now.
I love you so very much and i am so proud of the sensitive, caring, capable young woman you are. I appreciate your help with your siblings even if I don't say it. My energy is all scattered right now and I can't always explain myself.
Please know that we are going to be a stronger, more resilient family when this crisis passes, and it will. I just don't know when. God is everpresent in our lives and He is NOT going to leave us or let us down. I am so sure of this one.
I love you my beautiful daughter and I hope that you will forgive me for my weaknesses. Each day is another day closer to a solution. Pray and ask Him for your strength. I dont know if I can give you mine right now.
I hope you feel my love for you and know that my own pain is cocooning me right now. You kids are the best of my life, the best of me and when all is said and done, if you are all I have , then I will have exactly what I want and need in my life.
I love you, honey
Mom

On the upside, following this non-MB plan and line of conversation, you should have a very nasty and bitter distaste for each other by the time you are all done. Maybe both of you will also be kind enough to project it onto your children.

CAN you Plan A while you have time? CAN you avoid allowing him to bait you into these kinds of conversations?

Mom... PLEASE read Surviving an Affair.

I understand where you are coming from, I've been there. Please read my story and see if you don't see some similarities.

You are a believer... believe... and ACT.

Start over TODAY.

You are a beautiful woman. You count. You are loved.

I hear your pain in your letter to your daughter. I KNOW that pain and never wish to experience it again.

IF you follow the MB plans you will short-circuit your pain.

Praying fervently for you and yours.

Good morning hope you got at least some sleep last night
that was an intense note to your daughter - have you ever journaled - its great when you are stressed - did that for a few weeks when I was really angry!

I have read saa. i must be a very slow learner. it seems all ws says is disparaging things about me, to me. i read that i am not to be a doormat but if i stand up for myself, then it is a lb?
i am beyond trying to figure all of this out. i am kind to him, i look pretty, i ask for NOTHING, and i mean NOTHING. no take out the trash , no scratch my shoulder,
he is way out in left field and so over me. i really don't see how i am going to reach him?
i get kicked in the stomach daily by things he says, does. you all must be sooo much stronger than me cuz i am just not getting it.
i sat at the pastor's and pretty much let ws have at it, got to say very little and said very little. left feeling like I was the worst wife ever.
maybe encapsulate plan a in 3 steps:
1. keep mouth shut
2. say only positives
3. ignore negatives
4. ignore all "evidence" and pretend like there is no impending d?
sorry-i am dense. i am exhausted and i am stressed over the top over the fact that my husband and father of my children wants to leave me for someone else.
is there really a worthwhile success rate to any of this?
ps. so, ws said he would meet with mentor couple from church, reluctantly, said he is doubtful it will work or do any good. so bother? or not bother? why does this feel like he has control of EVERYTHING?

did you get the part about the affair fog he is int?

they rewrite your history- "never was happy" etc.....
they are aliens from another planet when in the fantasy!