I am determined to get out of here. Sell the house for whatever we can get and move out as soon as possible. I just pray to find a job in the states...that's all...so far, in my field, there have been so many cuts, so news are somewhat discouraging, but I am not giving up...
when i talked about my WH sometimes I forget of how much cruelty towards me he was capable of.
Yesterday I was listening to an MB radio archive piece and Dr. H was saying to a BS: WS are like rapists. Do you want you WH to rape you once in a while by having occasional contact with him or do you want to have nothing to do with him?
I guess everytime I go home and see OW and her life with my WH is as if I am raped again. I just know is wrong. It is starting to effect my mental health. I do talk loud when i am by myself re-hashing all my WH did to me...I have been doing this for 2 years now...Is this normal?
I need to move on, really.
Thank you for all your help...
blessing

Hi Atena,
Just keep working on yourself and continue your job search. Look at your own plan.

You are going into the what if mode and it is not helping you. They say A last 2 years, weill it has been over 2 years and XH married It.

Don't hang onto that 2 year rule because every case is different.

Will keep you in my prayers.

Hope, did you WH move in with OW right away and then he married her a year after when the D was final?
Is your WH an alcholic?
blessing

Atena, whether your WH's A ends within the 2 years or not, doesn't make it any more "special" than any other A. You can't focus on the affairess and their affair. You need to refocus to YOURSELF. I know that you are trying. It has to be difficult seeing her car. It causes you to be in their A EVERY DAY. Have you talked to your doctor? Have you thought about getting some ADs?

Next, you could do a pickle jar, like the one that I had. You could put a small amount of money in it every time you think about WH, OW or the A. We will let you skip putting it in when you are talking about it on here, or IRL for support. You will be AMAZED at how often you think about it. Then, when you start running out of money, you will decide to change it. Once a week, I would suggest that you take whatever money you have and go to a movie, or out to dinner BY YOURSELF. Let OW and WH wonder where you are going and who YOU are with, although that isn't going to be what you are concerned about, RIGHT.

Keep making your plans to leave so you can be DARK. In the meantime, focus on your thoughts and things that are within YOUR control.

It doesn't matter that they didn't know you were "spying"...YOU knew. Removing yourself completely is for your own sake, and is a true Plan B. I wish you the best in achieving this. You must know all these good people here are looking out for you and your future.

Thank you
I know that plan B is for me. The impact of plan B on the WH is zero. At least in my case. WH has not tried to contact me in any form or manner (except for very pratical matters thru our IM). He has never shown anger, resentement or other feelings. He has dealt with me only for cut and dry business issues.
I understand also that, from the way Dr. Harley describes plan B, the plan is also so that OW tries to meet all WH emotional needs (EN) and eventually fails. Is for WH to see what he is giving up by leaving the M. So, in a way, it should be also geared to impact WH...but many people on this forum say that it is only for the BS.
In my case I can say that plan B did nothing to the A as OW must be meeting WH's EN just fine. Maybe my WH has very basic EN. In fact, just thinking about it, I think his are
admiration
sex
recreational companionship
He admitted it to himself that conversation, a neat home, financial security not that important to him.
He also admitted, however, that family is important to him..but given that our son is now on his own, even this need becomes secondary...
so OW meets his needs.
I know I should give up hope about R and that's when I will finally be able to let go emotionally.
Even if I move, emotionally is still going to take me a while to get over him....I still love him after years of him not meeting my EN!!!
blessing

Hi Atena, XH moved out in 11/08 (A began June), he kept the apartment till 6/09 but he practically lived with PP from 12/09 just keeping the address. He was under the delusion that DD would come and stay with him and have BBQ in his apartment with his friends (you know the fog babble). He married PP less than a year after the D for the sake of appearances even though everyone here at work knows the real timeline.
Yes, XH is an active alcoholic. He was sober 15 years and I think the drinking is more important than the A. When I saw him it looks like he is dying. Can't save him.

It's ok that you love your WH, "you are loving the unloveable" because we thought that we would be with our H till death do us part. Our vows didn't change theirs did. What you need to understand is he is not the same man and you keep trying to deal with your real H. He is not there.

Schoolbus wrote something brilliant about how do you know when the A is over...when the WS start complaining louder about the OP or something to that effect. If anyone saved it can you post it here. It is very empowering.

While you are looking for a new job use your proximity to your advantage? Have you had any get togethers or parties? Pick a night when you know OW is home. Play loud music, open the windows so the laughter and clanging of glasses could be heard down the street. You are confident, you are strong, you are educated...show them your strength. Feel you don't have enough friends then this is a good chance to make some new ones.

Have an "American Thanksgiving" party. Decorate your windows, change your curtains, detach.

Hugs. We re here for you.

I guess it is pretty safe to say the WH acts, with OW, the same way he acted with us when he was first in love with us.
I do not think he is acts like a jerk with OW. I know for a fact he sent her loving message, and very romantic ones. I know they spent romantic week ends together and he probably gives her gifts.
So she gets the H we lost.
Why would that not be the case?
WH is the same man, he is just with someone different.
Blessing

Oh BUT Atena, your WH is NOT the same man. He is a broken man.

Have you given any thought into a jar for whenever you think about the A, WH or OW? It will really show you, in a tangible way, how OFTEN you think about it all. Then you can start to change that. It is understandable, since you live where OW lives and work where WH works. It has to be so hard for you. (((Atena)))

he is a broken man, but he is so entitled it is scary. He believes he deserves the OW and the free lifestyle he has now.
He will never admit to have made a mistake...never..he believes it is all my fault, he takes blame for nothing. If only I was a better person..he would have not been forced to have 2 A's (or more)
I put the $$$ in the jar and went to the hairdresser with it....

blessing

We all know that it a bunch of BULL.

I am glad that you did something GREAT for yourself with the money. You should go to a movie, or out for dinner. Bring a book with you so you won't feel out of place. Although, I LOVE people watching. Sometimes, in the beginning with all of the raw emotions, I HATED seeing couples together. It just hurt so bad. Now, it is almost as it was before. I don't feel as upset when I see people on love, I just miss it for me.

Were you amazed at how often you really were thinking about the whole sitch? I was STUNNED. I am sure that it is less now, had I continued with the jar. I also heard that you shoul,d wear a rubber band and every time that you have an unwanted thought, you snap the band on your wrist. It is supposed to make you not want to think about that anymore. I haven't tried that one yet.

Take care.

hi all,
I am finally on medications: this morning I called my dr. on the phone and he faxed the pharmacy the prescription.
Yesterday was a terrible day.
At work we had a saturday workshop to receive training on new software. It was a all day deal and WH was present..and guess where he chose to sit? Right behind me. It was embarrassing for 2 reasons: one, we do not speak to eachother and ignore eachoter completelely
the other: work collegues would come over and in a worried voice would say: how are you doing? everything ok.....It was obvious they were refereing to the sitting arrangement. And my WH must have hear all the apprehencion in those ladies voices ....I was a good actress adn did not let anything transpire.
After the first coffee break I moved to a different seat.
Later that evening with a few female collegues we went downtown. The city is very very big and full of tourists. We go to a restaurant and when I get out I see my WH vehicle parked a few feet from the restaurant I just got out of. He surely must have gone out to eat with her and that restaurant and the whole area where places where WH and me would go for romantic evenings...
I was a basket case last night,I spent 3 hours on the phone with my mom, telling here I did not know I would ever get over this. She finally said that i do have to sell the house as soon as I can and take a leave of absence and go to the states. She assured me that she was not at all for this solution but now she supports me. She begged me to erase my WH from my heart and mind and to know that he is gone, he will never be the same man. She said I have to stop hoping for R and undersdand that my WH has chosen a path.
She also confessed that she heard from relatives of my WH that he is happy now, he finally has the life he always wanted single, independent and with a younger woman whom he sees when he pleases. His relatives (an uncle of my WH) said he does not approve of WH behaviour but even with all the criticism WH heard, he remains firm about his choices.
So my WH will never R the M. I am so miserable now. I took the meds and slept 9 hours and plan to do so tonight.
I plan to go to work tomorrow even if I will be a slow moving zombie.
Will I get over this????
I love WH and can't seem to come to terms with the fact that my M is over....
blessing

YES, you will get over this. And you will come to terms with it, but you have to remove yourself. You have to get out of there. Once you do that, you will feel so much better! Come to Texas!

Also, you have to send me the recipe for lasange. I gave my sister my favorite recipe for lasange [made with Ragu and cheddar cheese ] and her Italian friend stroked out and insisted this WAS NOT lasange! Whatever.. That is how we make it in Texas!!

I will post the authentic recipe in a few minutes...just to add a few things..the authentic recipe has not cheddar, no and ricotta cheese. Sorry to break a myth..especially for the cheddar lovers in Texas!

I guess I was hoping the A would have ended soon, that is where all my hopes were hanging...but it is still going full blast and I hear he is happier than ever. It seem unfair that all that filth, lying and scheming ends up bringing him a better life, the life he wanted....
I miss the man I married and I know it is still there somewhere.
blessing

Here is the recipe for the lasagne (not Texas style)


I am down today, if anyone wants to lift me up at some point,I would appreciate it. I am trying to make sense of what does not, and trying to figure out what goes on in WH head...pretty much all the time.
I know I will have to move...and will. But in the meantime...How to make sense of all this mess...and understand how someone who hurt you so much can be now happy and carefree...

Buon Appetito!
Italian Lasagne
� One pound of ground beef
� 1 onion, finely chopped
� 1 glass of red wine
� 4 cans of tomato sauce
� Half pound of grated parmesan
� Two mozzarellas Italian style (soft and milky) or half pound of grated mozzarella American style.
� I packet dried or fresh lasagne
� 2 tbsp extra virgin olive oil
� 2 tbsp butter
� Salt
� Pepper
Ingredients for B�chamel Sauce
� 4 tbsp butter
� 50g flour (about 2 ounces scarce)
� 1 tsp grated nutmeg
� 1 pint of milk
� Salt
� Pepper
For four people
Cooking Time: 90 minutes
Preparation (you can make as many layers as you want, but generally 3 or 4 layers are sufficient)
1. Heat oil in a frying pan and cook the onion for 3 to 4 minutes until the onion is soft and translucent.
2. Add the ground beef and stir until is browned and crumbly.
3. Pour in the red wine add tomato sauce and season with salt and pepper.
4. Bring to the boil, then turn the heat low and leave to simmer for an hour. If the sauce becomes too dry add some more red wine.
5. If using dried lasagne, soak the pasta in hot water for about 15 minutes until soft and pliable. Rinse in cold water and leave to dry on a cotton towel.
6. While the sauce is cooking preheat the oven to 350 and prepare the b�chamel sauce.
7. After an hour place 5 tablespoons of the meat sauce in a medium sized oven proof dish, flatten with a spoon and cover with half layers of lasagne.
8. Pour a 3 tablespoons of the b�chamel sauce over the lasagna and smoothen with a spoon.
9. Repeat this rountine for as many layers as you want to make and top with the remaining b�chamel sauce and sprinkle the grated parmesan and remaining mozzarella over the top.
10. Cover the oven pan with tin foil
11. Place in the oven and cook for 25 minutes.
12. Remove tin foil and cook for another 5-7 minutes until the top has reached a golden color
Preparation of B�chamel Sauce
1. Melt the butter then add the flour and stir thoroughly until the butter completely absorbs the flour. This usually takes about 3 minutes.
2. Remove from the heat and gradually add the milk, stirring continuously until the milk is combined with the butter and flour.
3. Return to low-medium heat and bring to the boil, stirring all the time.
4. Turn the heat to low and simmer for 10 minutes, stirring occasionally.
5. After 10 minutes add nutmeg, salt, pepper and stir until you get a thick smooth consistency.

Any suggestions for substituting the glass of red wine?
For Mel, and for my H as well.

omit the wine. However alcohol evaporates so the content will be gone by the time it is cooked in the recipe.
You can also use stock like a glass of chicken broth or vegetable broth..

My H does not care about the "evaporation" of the alcohol. Which, I have explained to him.
For him, the flavor is a trigger.
Thanks for the recipe.
YUMMY !

atena, your recipe sounds GORGEOUS.

My Italian sister-in-law (from somewhere near Rome) puts sliced (or it might be chopped) boiled egg in hers. You don't particularly notice the egg; it just gives quite a firm texture to the layers.

Now please tell me about your cannelloni.

can you buy them already made over there and then put you own sauce? I do not know how to make them. My mom knows and I will have to have her mail me the recipe because she does not do computers. I know is a long procedure but they are sooo good. I will get you the recipe in a few days...so start with lasagne for now...
blessing