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A phone call to Dr H's radio show one time is not the same as counseling with the Harley's.

TheRoad #2437980 10/26/10 08:00 AM
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Dr. H doesn�t quite have the 9 pages of posts we have regarding your history.

I appreciate where you are and understand your feelings regarding dating.

My advice? You�re nowhere near being able to date and you would ruin anything that has good promise if you enter into dating before you�re divorced and shortly afterwards.

A custody battle is a really stressful thing to introduce into a relationship. It really turns away good women. In hindsight, it makes the ones that stick around through such a battle questionable. Why? Well, it is one of the most stressful things a person can go through and I question why anyone would willingly date anybody going through it. I really respect the women that ran away from me during that time. It tells me they are mentally healthy women who don�t need unnecessary drama in their lives. THOSE are the kind of women you want to date, once things settle down.

Things would be different if you had no kids. I�ve seen the difference. Divorces with no kids have a lot less drama.

My point is that you need to shelve the idea of dating for a loooooong time. Seriously, give it about a year or two AFTER you�ve split before you even think about it. It really takes about that long to feel normal again after what you�re going to go through.

As far as saving your marriage: Follow MB. You�ve done Plan A. Time for Plan B within the confines of having kids. I understand how hard it is to follow a Plan B when you have kids. It is very hard and you have to have a very understanding and willing intermediary that is willing to put up with the drama and be a neutral party to represent you.

But I think Plan B is certainly your next step.

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Honey flipped me the Bird this afternoon. Driving away in our car after she picked up our kids, she extended her middle digit my way. A classy move, and typical of Ms. Entitled the past twelve months.

I don't blame myself for her response. I stood my ground when she refused to sign on to a joint car insurance, which would save me $10 a month; if you can't sign on, I said, I can't pay you our regular monthly amount for our expenses. She blew her stack at that comment. "You're going to deduct $10 a month because I won't sign on to a new car insurance!" she yelled with our girls in the back seat. Yeah, I said calmly and confidently; I can't pay you the full amount. To which she made her usual threats about us getting a divorce and our marriage being over and us using a calculator to figure out how much I owe her in child support. Blah, blah, blah.

I've had enough of Honey. Her act is old, old, old. I've been a good husband to her, being faithful to her when she continues to sleep with POSOM and by her own admission a terrific father to our girls. Also, I have not committed LB's, other than failing to pay one of our joint bills (for $225). Yet she continues to act like a 14-year-old spoiled brat.

As you can tell, my Taker is in full force. And maybe my dignity and respect too. I still act like a Giver when I call her and she comes over and we chit chat nicely. But the past two days have moved me closer than ever to -- da, dah -- going to Plan B.


-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10
Have talked with lawyer twice; hate it
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife has NOT filed

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I don't believe you.

Respectfully,
SB


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
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Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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Hello MJ,

I am afraid I don't believe you either...

I think you are afraid of your WW.

I think you are afraid to do what is necessary to kill this affair.

Have you had your attorney send a certified letter of intent to supeona the OM for his actions with your WW if it goes to divorce trial??? Even in no fault states that do not have adultery clauses it still figures into child custody and what enviornment is best for the kids.

Let your WW know that your attorney will be scheduling mental health testing for you, her and your kids to determine WHO will be in charge of primary residency for custody based on the mental health findings. If OM will also be part of their life HE may be also subject to being tested according to your state's laws.

Did you copy your WW and OM's list of facebook friends and send a private message to each and every one of them to expose???

Have you hired a PI for a background check on the OM who is spending time with your kids???

Sir, if you are going to win this you have got to get MAD about this OM taking YOUR life and kids and start fighting back, not just waiting to see what THEY are going to next to you.

Let us know what you find out.

Get busy!!!

Jim


FWW 48 had EA and PA affair with my brother which ended in 2006. Me BH 53. Happily recovering with a new and better marriage through MB!!! My thread - http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2110024#Post2110024
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Your WW is losing any respect she may ever have had for you. Flipping you off in front of your children? How disrespectful is that? You appear to be in Plan Doormat.

You are past the point of any positive return on being in Plan A.
But your post about being ready to go to Plan B shows no action in that direction whatsoever.

Don't tell us, MJ. Show us.

Last edited by maritalbliss; 11/14/10 08:46 AM.

D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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I recommend video taping the exchanges to capture this behavior. Check your state's laws on it first, though. You can usually record video but you can't record audio. So shut off the audio on your camera and get the video only, IF you live in a two party state. A one party state lets you record as long as one party in the conversation knows they're being recorded.

Such behavior on video and done in front of the kids matters a lot in custody disputes.

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Help,

Thanks for your advice. I like your idea.

Everybody else,

I understand why people don't believe I'm ready to go to Plan B. I promised I would write a draft of my letter to Honey and have not done so. But I'm ready.

Here's why: On Friday morning, while dropping my kids off to daycare, which is near Honey's apartment, I caught myself saying, "The OM isn't going to marry Honey. He's using her (and she's using him). But I'm being the good husband. To hell with this." Then on Saturday night, while coming home from a friend's house, a street walker appeared about 25 yards away. I lowered my window shield. At that point, I thought, "What the hell am I doing? I want to have sex with a prostitute?" I never had this temptation when I was dating and living with Honey. Something is wrong.

I can't keep up being disrespected by Honey. It's too emotionally exhausting and will only wind up hurting my family.




-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10
Have talked with lawyer twice; hate it
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife has NOT filed

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Cut bait...fish...cut bait...fish

What's it going to be, MJ?

toe tap


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Neither. He will just row the boat in place, and wait until somebody else does something to make the decision for him. Then, he will not be happy with the outcome, and blame the other person.

SB


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
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Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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You do some crazy things when going through this. I smoked, even though I don�t smoke. I hooked up with someone right after my D, which was a mistake.

Keep your head on straight and don�t lose sight of the prize. The prize is either recovery of your marriage or custody of your kids.

Hooking up with a prostitute doesn�t help that case.

Take action. Go to Plan B. Get your legal ducks in order.

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Originally Posted by MichaelJan
Honey knows I'm not going for a fantasy divorce. In August, I told her that if she files, I will counter-file, asking for full custody and putting the OM on trial. I also said I would not speak with her again.

MJ, I have absolutely no advice on your marriage but this really stuck out to me. I understand you have met with an atty and say that her juristiction is a 50/50 area, whatever that means. To me there is a delicate line to toe when dealing with the kids. Where I'm from, Kansas, while it touts fathers rights the judge in our case made it clear that he has and never will order 50/50 custody. Why? Because if the parents can't AGREE to 50/50 then how will they ever be able to do the extra co-parenting that goes along with 50/50. My X and I were able to settle on pretty much 50/50. We then had a disagreement, took it to court, and the judge said if any other matters come before his court the 50/50 thing was gone. 2 years later he made true on his promise and as I had been informed he was an old-school "kids go with momma" judge.

The only reason I share this is to warn you to be extremely educated in the judge's temperment before taking a drastic step, such as plan B. While I have tons of respect for Dr. H, he is not a Divorce Lawyer and if your marriage isn't saved you need to be in the best possible position for your kids.


Hugz, Thoughtz, & Prayerz

Bill
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Below is a draft of my Plan B letter to Honey. Most of the text is taken from Dr. H's SAA, but I added a few sentences to make it personal.

Quote
My Dear Honey,

I apologize again to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with the OM possible. I foolishly pursued my career without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you felt alone and scared, and we are now both suffering for my mistakes.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I�ve made and create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs. But I cannot do any of this until you end your relationship with the OM once and for all.

Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. Our friends Tk, Tk and Tk have agreed to help make arrangements for Tk. But I will not be here when you visit or we exchange the kids. If you want to communicate about our girls or any other matter, it will have to be through Tk and Tk.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with the OM, and I simply cannot be with you any longer knowing that you are with him. I still love you and I �m not going to divorce you, but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to separate permanently from Tk and are willing to follow the measures to ensure total separation. I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I want us to be able to have not only a good marriage, but a great marriage. I want us to be able to meet each other�s emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. More important, I know what it takes for us to build a great marriage: giving each other at least 15 hours a week of undivided attention and never doing anything without the enthusiastic agreement of both of us.

We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend again, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.

I loved you when we married and I continue to love you. You are the sweetest, most playful, and most beautiful woman I know. I just cannot be with you as long as you are seeing the OM.

With my love,

Your thoughts and comments are welcome.

Last edited by MichaelJan; 11/16/10 08:43 PM.
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Too wordy. Too needy. She won't respect that, MJ. Try this:

Originally Posted by MichaelJan
Below is a draft of my Plan B letter to Honey. Most of the text is taken from Dr. H's SAA, but I added a few sentences to make it personal.

Quote
My Dear Honey,

I apologize again to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with the OM possible. I foolishly pursued my career without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you felt alone and scared, and we are now both suffering for my mistakes.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I�ve made and create a new life for both of us that will meet yourour needs. But I cannot do any of this until you end your relationship with the OM once and for all.

Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you will no longer see you or talk to you. Our friends Tk, Tk and Tk have agreed to help make arrangements for Tk. But I will not be here when you visit or we exchange the kids. If you want to communicate about our girls or any other matter, it will have to be through Tk and Tk.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with the OM, and I simply cannot be with you any longer knowing that you are with him. I still love you and I �m not going to divorce you, but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to separate permanently from Tk and are willing to follow the measures to ensure total separation. I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I want us to be able to have not only a good marriage, but a great marriage. I want us to be able to meet each other�s emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. More important, I know what it takes for us to build a great marriage: giving each other at least 15 hours a week of undivided attention and never doing anything without the enthusiastic agreement of both of us.

We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend again, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.

I loved you when we married and I continue to love you. You are the sweetest, most playful, and most beautiful woman I know. I just cannot be with you as long as you are seeing the OM.

With my love,

Your thoughts and comments are welcome.


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Too wordy. Too needy. She won't respect that, MJ. Try this:

Originally Posted by MichaelJan
Below is a draft of my Plan B letter to Honey. Most of the text is taken from Dr. H's SAA, but I added a few sentences to make it personal.

Quote
My Dear Honey,

I apologize again to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with the OM possible. I foolishly pursued my career without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you felt alone and scared, and we are now both suffering for my mistakes.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I�ve made and create a new life for both of us that will meet yourour needs. But I cannot do any of this until you end your relationship with the OM once and for all.

Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you will no longer see you or talk to you. Our friends Tk, Tk and Tk have agreed to help make arrangements for Tk. But I will not be here when you visit or we exchange the kids. If you want to communicate about our girls or any other matter, it will have to be through Tk and Tk.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with the OM, and I simply cannot be with you any longer knowing that you are with him. I still love you and I �m not going to divorce you, but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to separate permanently from Tk and are willing to follow the measures to ensure total separation. I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I want us to be able to have not only a good marriage, but a great marriage. I want us to be able to meet each other�s emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. More important, I know what it takes for us to build a great marriage: giving each other at least 15 hours a week of undivided attention and never doing anything without the enthusiastic agreement of both of us.

We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend again, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.

I loved you when we married and I continue to love you. You are the sweetest, most playful, and most beautiful woman I know. I just cannot be with you as long as you are seeing the OM.

With my love,

Your thoughts and comments are welcome.

great editing

TheRoad #2443848 11/17/10 08:37 AM
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The shorter the better.

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Do the edited version laugh

TheRoad #2443901 11/17/10 10:28 AM
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Here you go, MJ. Easier to read smile
---------------------------------


Honey,
I apologize again to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with the OM possible.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I�ve made and create a new life for both of us that will meet our needs. But I cannot do any of this until you end your relationship with the OM once and for all.

Until then, I will no longer see you or talk to you. Our friends Tk, Tk and Tk have agreed to help make arrangements for Tk. If you want to communicate about our girls or any other matter, it will have to be through Tk and Tk.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with the OM, and I simply cannot be with you any longer knowing that you are with him.

As soon as you are willing to separate permanently from Tk I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I want us to be able to have not only a good marriage, but a great marriage. I want us to be able to meet each other�s emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. I want to be your best friend again, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.

I loved you when we married and I continue to love you. You are the sweetest, most playful, and most beautiful woman I know. I just cannot be with you as long as you are seeing the OM.

With my love,
------------------------------------










Last edited by maritalbliss; 11/17/10 10:35 AM. Reason: clarity

D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Much better letter.

Now, do you actually have the will, the true strength, and the courage to give it to her?

And

BEFORE THANKSGIVING????

Because it is meaningless if you meet her needs during the holidays. It is just empty otherwise. You will remain


the doormat

and she will continue to wipe her feet all over you - without guilt or remorse.


SB


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
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Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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Originally Posted by schoolbus
Much better letter.

Now, do you actually have the will, the true strength, and the courage to give it to her?

And

BEFORE THANKSGIVING????

Because it is meaningless if you meet her needs during the holidays. It is just empty otherwise. You will remain


the doormat

and she will continue to wipe her feet all over you - without guilt or remorse.


SB

Because she knows she can, MJ. Because she knows she can. MrRollieEyes

Last edited by maritalbliss; 11/17/10 08:20 PM.

D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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