I may not be the norm, but I was the one who tried to hold our marriage and family together, while my ex was all gung-ho on bailing and pursuing her married OM.

AGG

I didn't mean to insult any of those men out there who are committed and continue to try hard to make marriages work. It was a generalization, and I understand that there are many women who cheat too. As you pointed out, I know many guys who feel 'justified' because they provide - speaking of Tiger Woods who admitted that while he knew that what he was doing was wrong he felt that a normal rule did not apply to him since he was so 'special'. Maybe not to that extent, but a lot of that is stemming from the environment, that is true. I guess I was just making a very broad generalization based on my personal experience.

Yup, I'm not normal either I guess.
Milkshake, I know you weren't trying to offend. No worries.

Opt

Very interesting debate, Milkshake, and no offense taken.

However, I don't think the stats back up you ascertion. Did you know that 75% of divorces in this country are filed by women? That's right, a three to one difference.

I can't find it, but there's a good article that's been posted here about the new propensity for "walk away mom's". I wish someone could find it.

On happier news, things are progressing quickly with the woman I've been seeing and are quickly approaching the "hot and heavy" level, lol. She's a very outgoing, vivacious, and beautiful woman and has scores of suiters hounding after her. Can't figure out how I happened to be the one to capture her fancy?

I made her a special dinner at my house two nights ago, then last night we had the leftovers at her's. We had planned to go out and see a local band, but we were both kind of tired and just stayed in for conversation and one-on-one time.

I think it's good that I have the boys half the time right now, it gives us a little breaks and some time apart to gain perspective. But, it is nice to have someone "really digging you" again.

Nice man, glad you found someone to be happy with!

Travis

Well, it's no mystery to us around here, sh2p, you're a great guy. She's lucky to have your attention as I'm sure you feel lucky to have hers.

Enjoy it.

Opt

This sounds great schtoop! Is this the pastor lady you mentioned earlier? As always, my advice would be "have fun but go slow", but you already know that .

AGG

tc, also a good point. I guess to every generalization there's always exceptions. I hope my experience is not the norm...for everyone else's sake. I know this much, everyone is different...my problem is in recognizing which is which. I look at past behavior as a predictor but often that's fooled me as well.

Ditto.

As to the 75% of divorces are filed by women...

It's not who files that's the indicator of who bailed.

In my case, my ex was living with another woman...the second time he did that, and stuck me with all his bills, he quit his job, drew thousands of dollars out of the bank and went into hiding with his young lady...so I filed for divorce. Later he said, "You didn't have to go and file for divorce!"

I didn't?

here is the issue, what does go slow mean?

ugh! everyone's go slow is different. . how slow is slow and how fast is too fast?

wiftty

Wiftty,

Good to see you here . My definition of slow is simple - keep your level of involvement in line with your knowledge of the person. Some random examples - don't make plans for next year with them on the second or third date, don't have sex with them if you don't yet know if you are exclusive, don't meet the kids until you feel you have a relationship and not just a few dates, don't talk about moving to their town until you have spent enough time with them to feel that your relationship will last, etc.

AGG

AGG,

that part is pretty obvious, a day or ski trip plan is a great idea for next year, that' nothing serious and can go by myself if she doesn't go. its only 2-3 hour drive to slopes.

ah, sex is the least of my issues, i have a hard time figuring out do yu kiss them when you part after a great date? that to me is the hardest.

We went to a patriots game, and had dumped my car in a public parking lot, after the game she dropped me off at my car, kissed me as quickly as possible, ran to her car and said "goodbye" and drove off.

umm, I didn't take that one well. no thank you and running off??

not sure what to think there. . .

I guess I'm old school...I still don't kiss on the first date...maybe fourth? If they can't wait that long and be respectful, they can keep on trucking! Maybe it's just how I was raised...

I'm sorry she ran off so fast that she forgot her manners...but think of it this way, it saved you another date. You'll find a good one yet, remember, it's about numbers...

The first date, I kissed her cheek at departure.
The second date, I pecked her lips at the restaraunt when I saw her and when I left, with a hug.

this was the third date. . .

I thought it was weird. however, she did have dark parking lot fright on our first date, so I chalked it up to that. We are still speaking, and I blew her off on the fourth date, not intentionally.

I do owe her a fourth date, though I am not sure how its going to go. We have spoken since, and she is friendly, so all is not lost.

I just can't figure her out right away. .

wiftty

Four Kacey!? Worth the wait, I'm sure. Lol
I'll wait that long if I'm having a fun time with someone and things are going in the right direction. The first kiss never comes out of the blue anyway, right?

Wiffty (love the name btw). Mens Health had a blurb about where your hands are during the first kiss. No particular suggestions, but you need to think about it because she'll definitely notice.
Of course I have minimal practical experience, just siting wat I've read.

Care to weigh in Schtoop? (We've jacked your thread again, lol)
Opt

I must be odd...my boyfriend didn't kiss me until at least the fifth or sixth date...

Been giving this a lot of thought.

First, Fourth, Seventh, Tenth. I don't think it's a question of being odd, or normal, or unusual, or right or wrong. Just a matter of what you're comfortable with and what two people are interested in getting out of a dating experience.

That's my perspective based on highly limited experience.

Opt

Personally, I think you want to feel he's somewhat special before kissing...I wouldn't want to kiss just anyone and everyone...and I doubt he'd want to kiss someone who had!
As to where the hands are, gosh, I never analyzed it! I remember my late husband's first kiss, he kind of pulled me towards him, I liked that, it felt kind of like a protective stance, I always felt that with him, like it was the best place in the world to be! Maybe where the hands are DO matter! I wouldn't get nervous worrying about it though, the most important thing is that you're in the moment, right there with that person, and you are both comfortable and enjoying it. It has to be a mutual want-to, and I think the vibes definitely come from the other person so you know it.

Hey all, thought I would weigh in on my own thread, haven't posted in a while (too busy).

On the subject of when to kiss, I doubt that I would make it to a fourth date without having some level of intimate kissing. I would interpret four dates without a kiss as indicating not much physical attraction and a relationship that was bound to end up in the "friends" zone. But, that's just me.

I'm still seeing the first woman I went out with and we've really hit it off. Seems like we are spending every spare moment together when I don't have the kids. Things are progressing quickly and we are both well aware of it, but neither of us is sure that we really want to slow it down, either.

We're kind of at the place where we know the situation, know there's a possibility that it could fall apart at some point, but we don't want to be overly cautious or afraid to take a chance.

I still have some weird feelings of guilt from time to time. The thing is that all through my XWW's affair and subsequent divorce, my sole focus was on the children and protecting my abilily to look after and provide for them. So now I have someone else to consider and I don't want that to ever take away from my responsibilities to the children. In reality it doesn't have to take anything away and can make all of our lives richer, but that self-doubt creeps in from time to time.

And, not to sound to high and mighty, I also have to look at my motivation for what I do for the boys. Of course their best interest is always my goal, but was I trying to be superdad just to show up their mother? I can't honestly say that wasn't part of it.

Anyway, enjoying the ride right now and trying my best to keep everything in balance. Not always easy to do when you're riding a wave of emotions.