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#2445481 11/22/10 03:19 PM
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�I am not pops, nor do I speak for him

I am , however, in his position - sort of.�

Sort of not. You did not have the affair and produce an OC for your H to accept as his as part of the price for recovering the marriage.

�I am, btw, a believer in NC. I do, on the other hand, know others who have made C work. My belief in NC is a selfish belief that I matter most. At some point, I had to wake up and realize that the OC didn't ask for this, either.
Also, for me to say "choose me over the kid" is not in my nature.�

Noble to say and do so.

�So, in short, I am a NC believer who has C. In the end, it is messy for me personally, but I do feel that I have come out of this with more dignity than if I would have turned and ran.�

You were able to stay some can�t and need NC.

Why allow contact when it has been proven that contact increases the odds that an affair will restart?

Why risk another OC?

What would you do if tonight your WH comes home and during diner the OWH calls to say that your WH knocked up his WW again?

What would you do?

What would your position be on exceptions to NC?

�As far as pops allowing OM to coach his kids, etc.. that's a long story. But food for thought tells me, that my own children were not once told they could not go somewhere or do something if I thought there was a chance that MOW or her kids would be there. To me, that was punishing my children, who did nothing wrong.�

So you do not see a learning value that there are certain types of people one must stay away from?

�Piece of the hurt pie to tell them no? Yeah, maybe...but guess what? Their father was a willing participant in this mess. Those that call the OM/OW the interloper are forgetting that. I suppose if you want to make it equal across the board, I could have prevented them from being around their father or ever speaking to the brother that the entire world knows they have.�
Forget nothing. Tell the kids that the WS baked this hurt pie. Another learning experience. There are consequences in life.

�Can we just say that this is truly the hardest thing to deal with in infidelity? It's also very hard to have others who have never lived through it tell you how wrong you are for making something work.�

Sort of because you can always make any story worse.

TheRoad #2445487 11/22/10 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Eibrab

�As far as pops allowing OM to coach his kids, etc.. that's a long story. But food for thought tells me, that my own children were not once told they could not go somewhere or do something if I thought there was a chance that MOW or her kids would be there. To me, that was punishing my children, who did nothing wrong.�
'

Eibrab, I would ask you to rethink this premise because it really doesn't make sense when you think it through. It is not punishing your children to keep them away from the OW, but protecting them. Observing no contact with the OW is the best protectant from the affair, which is the greatest threat to your marriage. Your marriage is the foundation of security and safety and well being for your children. Exposing them to the OW is to expose YOU and your H to the OW which is a foolish risk to your marriage and to their family.

We tell children all the time over on the SAA forum that they can't associate with the OP or his/her children, and that is not "punishment," it is protection. Children completely understand the reasoning. They usually have more common sense about this stuff than their parents.

Also, exposing your children to the OW sends them the message that you endorse your H's affair partner and endorse that continued association. That is a terrible message to send to children. It is morally confusing to children to see their parents endorsing adultery partners.

So, I would urge you to rethink your stance about bringing your children around your H's affair partner. That is not good for anyone in your family.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


TheRoad #2445492 11/22/10 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Eibrab
�Piece of the hurt pie to tell them no? Yeah, maybe...but guess what? Their father was a willing participant in this mess. Those that call the OM/OW the interloper are forgetting that. I suppose if you want to make it equal across the board, I could have prevented them from being around their father or ever speaking to the brother that the entire world knows they have

That doesn't make any sense. Their father is their father and always will be. The OW is not related to them and therefore, has absolutely no reason to associate with them. The presence of the OW endangers their parent's marriage so it makes no sense to continue that relationship or to pretend that their father is the equivalent of an OW. He is not.

Saying they are "equal" and somehow entitled to the same treatment completely overlooks the obvious: that their continued contact is dangerous. IT is dangerous to your marriage and dangerous to your children's family.

Having a relationship with their father is inherently healthy and productive; any dealings with an OW is a negative, unhealthy presence and a direct threat to their security and well being. Why play chicken with the well being of your children?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


MelodyLane #2445518 11/22/10 05:15 PM
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"""�""""As far as pops allowing OM to coach his kids, etc.. that's a long story. """""""""

Roads you have that backwards. OM never coached or will coach my kids. He!! he won't even coach his own kids.

it is ME who coaches oc

it was my son who was coaching at the hs when om's son tried out and made the team. therefore MY son coached om's son


me-59 ww-55
married 1979 - together since 1974
6 kids together 15,19,21,23,29,30
my oldest son 37
d-day (confession day) memorial day 2001
oc born 12/20/01
now 8 grandchildren
pops #2445519 11/22/10 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by pops
"""�""""As far as pops allowing OM to coach his kids, etc.. that's a long story. """""""""

Roads you have that backwards. OM never coached or will coach my kids. He!! he won't even coach his own kids.

it is ME who coaches oc

it was my son who was coaching at the hs when om's son tried out and made the team. therefore MY son coached om's son

I stand corrected, thank you.

TheRoad #2445538 11/22/10 06:56 PM
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to answer sugarcane's why question. i can be wordy but i'll try and cut down. (hahahahaha yeah right)

before i met fullhouse ( aka fh = my w)i had gotten an old gf preg. we went oour separate ways and she met someone else

i was willing to let that relationship go and never see my son. listening to a very popular radio mc at the time she said that with the exceptin of abuse (real abuse) that it is always in the best interest for children to know there bio parents.

it had been proven thru studies that life long resentments were formed by these children who were subject to this type of rejection

that's when i formed my personal opinion that i had to be part of my sons life. and so it has been since 1974. and well worth it. i now have 3 beautiful grandchildren because i forged that relationship.

fast forward to december 2001 and my w has her oc. still raising 5 children and having lost my dad (my mom passed away in 1972)in january of 01 from coronary artery failure (then just called heart attack).

we had been trying to figure out where we were headed and everything i had asked from of her was flat out rejected. FTR i had asked her to either abort or place the child for adoption.

with my family health history in mind, finances were and had always been tight with the large family, and knowing fh would need all the help she could get to raise this family should something happen to me that would either take me away or render me disabled i put cs on the table as a condition of working thru the marriage.

since that time i have been in the cath lab 3 times having 3 stents placed. 1st time (4/06) was thru the emergency door, 2nd (4/07) was a walk in and the 3rd (11/08) was a next day after i failed a tread mill test miserably

the other big part of the puzzle and maybe on a par with my health concerns was that so many choices had been taken out of my hands with my w's decisions i felt i had to have something or i was gone.

before coming to MB i had already made the decision that D was the ultimate outcome for us. she was still in the fog and i had had my fill at her 2 1/2 month A (never did and still don't know how some of the saints here get thru ws's year long A's) i had spoken to attorneys and had already filled out the D papers. all i had to do was go down and file. that's when i found MB and put the paperwork in the file cabinet.

had she not agreed to cs it would have been the straw that broke my will

there were other less important reasons but they still played a part of my choices

not wanting to raise my com at the time in 2 homes as i did with my oldest son

my deep down belief that children should know their bio parents,

the fact that i had met my responsibility by paying cs for 18 years and felt om should be responsible that way also as i felt all parents should be,

the fact that i could not get an honest answer out of fh at the time to whether she thought om would seek visitation or not,

that i did not truly understand the difference between a 2 home family with a divorced or out of wedlock child vs an oc. to me they were just 2 family kids

why i didn't move away. i own my own business drywall/steel framing subcontractor and have spent years building a client base to to try and feed and house my family. i quit contracting in the early 90's and went to work for someoone else. we nearly lost everything so i went back to contracting. it took nearly a year to get some of the old generals back and buld up the client list again.

I had never run from my problems. i have always stood tall and faced them head on. the old analogy of "you can run but you can't hide" rang out in my head. besides my rational was that my w was the problem and even if i ran she would have come with me.

i felt and truly believed that my w was remorseful for her actions and was willing to work on repairing our marriage.

since we did not move away my #6 child (dd) ended up attending hs with om's son. they had a class or 2 together thru the 4 years. i noticed one day that she was acting kinds wierd so i sat down with her to chat. it came out that she was worried that "I" would be upset if i knew they were in the same class. i explained to her that she had nothing to fear from me.

hope this wasn't too long and that i didn't leave anything out

also ftr, fh and i go to pick up oc 99% of the time together. it is me that goes to the door. sometimes i just can't go due to work. and of that 99% of the time with oc being nearly 9 (she would kill me if i said she was only 8) om never comes to the door. oc knows when it's time for us to come and she answers the door.

om picks oc up from school

i know it has been suggested that if i can't be there that we should get a mediator to do the pickup and have om pay for it. i am assuming (and everyone knows how to spell [censored]-u-me) that they have not been around the court system much lately and have no clue as to how many rights the ALL fathers are getting these days

Last edited by pops; 11/22/10 07:07 PM.

me-59 ww-55
married 1979 - together since 1974
6 kids together 15,19,21,23,29,30
my oldest son 37
d-day (confession day) memorial day 2001
oc born 12/20/01
now 8 grandchildren
pops #2445549 11/22/10 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pops
to answer sugarcane's why question. i can be wordy but i'll try and cut down.
I mean no disrespect, but I don't understand your answer, pops.

You said

"If my w had gone complete NC and followed the mb principles to the T we would be divorced today regardless of dr harley's principles. guaranteed."

Those principles mean NC between your wife and OM, and NC between OM and OC. I still don't understand why you think that these measures would have left you divorced.

I asked,

"Why do you believe this, pops? What would have been worse in your marriage with NC?"

I did not see a clear answer in your explanation.

Are you saying that your wife would not have forgiven you for making her NC with OM and the marriage would have failed

or

Are you saying that you would not have forgiven her for not claiming CS? Would you have left because of that?


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
pops #2445557 11/22/10 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by pops
i was willing to let that relationship go and never see my son. listening to a very popular radio mc at the time she said that with the exceptin of abuse (real abuse) that is is always in the best interest for children to know there bio parents.

it had been proven thru studies that life long resentments were formed by these children who were subject to this type of rejection

None of this answers her question, though. She asked you WHY you said this:

Quote
If my w had gone complete NC and followed the mb principles to the T we would be divorced today regardless of dr harley's principles. guaranteed.

And you answered with a long, convoluted post about why it was bad for a child to not know his bio parent... huh? She asked WHY you would not be married if your W had gone strict no contact with the OM. The issue was never about contact with the child.

So I will ask again: WHY do you say that you would be divorced today if you followed NC? [which is somewhat ironic given that your marriage is shaky and on the verge of collapse using your own plan]

Do you know what Dr Harley would say to that? If your W won't end contact with her lover, you should be divorced. Or do you believe in marriage at all costs? Because Dr Harley sure doesn't. There is no virtue in staying in a crippled, abusive marriage. The goal here at MB is not just staying married, it is creating a GREAT marriage.

Have you read any of the studies about life long resentments from children of divorce? What you did by maintaining contact with the OM was threaten your own marriage, which would have directly affected 6 children.

Your marriage, by your own admission, is very shaky and you were just discussing separation 2 months ago. The inclusion of the OM in your lives has made recovery of your marriage impossible. You can deny that this is the source, but that is not believable to anyone who understands the effect of an OP on a marriage. Dr Harley states that recovery is impossible unless no contact is observed and, gee willikers, that is exactly what happened.

So, I find it amazing that you sacrificed the security and well being of 6 children for the POTENTIAL future resentment of an OC. That is so irrational that it takes my breath away.

pops, I find so many of your explanations so implausible that it makes me think there is another reason behind all this. When someone goes to these lengths to make such bizarre rationalizations about such breathtakingly bad judgment there is usually some underlying reason. I wonder what it is and I don't know you well enough to understand the reasons.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


SugarCane #2445596 11/22/10 10:14 PM
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b/c of my family health history i felt very strongly that fh would need as much help financially as possible in the event of tragedy. this meant all income possible to help support my com. the cs, with which came the possibility of visitation and minimal c, was something i felt she would need.

please comprehend the above statement correctly before trying to parse out 17 words. i did not say she needed c. only cs

as much as i didn't want D i was ready to leave if i didn't feel i was able to make some form of input with the choices being made in my life at the time. i was at my breaking point and nc meant no cs which meant again no control of my life

i felt it also meant she was rejecting me to protect om

if those were her intentions i would have left

at that time i felt i was at the end of my rope

also please remember that we were complete nc for not exactly sure but maybe 5 years before we started going to what is a very minimal c situation



me-59 ww-55
married 1979 - together since 1974
6 kids together 15,19,21,23,29,30
my oldest son 37
d-day (confession day) memorial day 2001
oc born 12/20/01
now 8 grandchildren
MelodyLane #2445602 11/22/10 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Eibrab

�As far as pops allowing OM to coach his kids, etc.. that's a long story. But food for thought tells me, that my own children were not once told they could not go somewhere or do something if I thought there was a chance that MOW or her kids would be there. To me, that was punishing my children, who did nothing wrong.�
'

Eibrab, I would ask you to rethink this premise because it really doesn't make sense when you think it through. It is not punishing your children to keep them away from the OW, but protecting them. Observing no contact with the OW is the best protectant from the affair, which is the greatest threat to your marriage. Your marriage is the foundation of security and safety and well being for your children. Exposing them to the OW is to expose YOU and your H to the OW which is a foolish risk to your marriage and to their family.

We tell children all the time over on the SAA forum that they can't associate with the OP or his/her children, and that is not "punishment," it is protection. Children completely understand the reasoning. They usually have more common sense about this stuff than their parents.

Also, exposing your children to the OW sends them the message that you endorse your H's affair partner and endorse that continued association. That is a terrible message to send to children. It is morally confusing to children to see their parents endorsing adultery partners.

So, I would urge you to rethink your stance about bringing your children around your H's affair partner. That is not good for anyone in your family.

Melody and TheRoad..

I think you both took my meaning as if my children spent time with the MOW. They do not and never have. However, what I meant and what has happened is that I have not once said to them..you cannot go to the friday night football game because MOW might be there. I have not made my children lose one bit of the life they lead out of fear of running into this woman or her children. I simply cannot fathom telling my son that he cannot play a sport in this community because the MOW's son might try out for that team. I'm truly not certain how you can even say that this behavior means that I condone what has happened.

What it means to me is that the mistake and actions of others does not define or own me...or my COM. That's all.

In no way have my children ever spent time with MOW.

Who isn't MOW anymore.. she is divorcing and living with a man who was her OM #who knows..

Eibrab

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melody i never said my marriage is very shaky refering to anything having to do with om, oc, c or nc.

i said my marriage was "far from perfect". and i explained what i was referring to when i said that.

can you honestly say anyone has a "perfect" marriage?

the only one saying my marriage is on the rocks and failing is you.

heck even the infamous dr phil says his marriage is not perfect

trust me melody my childrens security and well being was never sacrificed. and never did the future resentment of the oc come into the equation. never

I KNOW WHERE YOU STAND ON NC. YOU KNOW WHERE I STAND ON NC IN OUR HOME. CAN WE JUST LIVE ON OPPOSITE SIDES OF THE FENCE?

show me where i have ever given anyone advice to make the same choices i made in my life i have NEVER advised anyone to to that. never.

I also have always said that the road we took is a very difficult one with lots of potholes.

instead of pulling out small parts and attacking try comprehending the entire thought. you pulled out the separation part 2 months back but left out the

"""""my marriage has managed to survive 10 years since our d day. is it whole and we are still a family but it is far from perfect""""""""



Last edited by pops; 11/22/10 10:52 PM.

me-59 ww-55
married 1979 - together since 1974
6 kids together 15,19,21,23,29,30
my oldest son 37
d-day (confession day) memorial day 2001
oc born 12/20/01
now 8 grandchildren
TheRoad #2445605 11/22/10 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by TheRoad
What would you do if tonight your WH comes home and during diner the OWH calls to say that your WH knocked up his WW again?

What would you do?

What would your position be on exceptions to NC?

The Road..

Don't think that hasn't crossed my mind. However, doesn't that very same thing cross any BS's mind?

Isn't a marriage that has recovered from an A subject to the "you do this again and my stance changes" deal?

Eibrab

Eibrab #2445608 11/22/10 11:00 PM
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""""""I think you both took my meaning as if my children spent time with the MOW. They do not and never have. However, what I meant and what has happened is that I have not once said to them..you cannot go to the friday night football game because MOW might be there. I have not made my children lose one bit of the life they lead out of fear of running into this woman or her children. I simply cannot fathom telling my son that he cannot play a sport in this community because the MOW's son might try out for that team. I'm truly not certain how you can even say that this behavior means that I condone what has happened.

What it means to me is that the mistake and actions of others does not define or own me...or my COM. That's all.""""""

Eibrab,

EXACTLY



me-59 ww-55
married 1979 - together since 1974
6 kids together 15,19,21,23,29,30
my oldest son 37
d-day (confession day) memorial day 2001
oc born 12/20/01
now 8 grandchildren
pops #2445611 11/22/10 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by pops
melody i never said my marriage is very shaky refering to anything having to do with om, oc, c or nc.

pops, here is what you said on this forum just 2 short months ago:

On the thread "DNA test or not?" 26 September 2010:

Originally Posted by pops
however some problems have arisen these past few months in our marriage that have led to talks of separation between the 2 of us. not A stuff but just with the many stress's that we are facing right now. "

That is a marriage that is not in recovery, pops. You have been here 10 years and are not in recovery. Just as Dr Harley states. Anyone who understands the dynamics of adultery could tell you that a WS who still in touch with her lover is in a state of perpetual withdrawal which precludes an emotional investment in the marriage. You don't apparently understand this or even the concept of trust and boundaries. Yet you have been here 10 years. crazy

Dr Harley is expected to produce his credentials when he offers advice to others. His own marriage and his track record of saving marriages
should be considered when we consider his advice. It is the same with YOU. When you presume to contradict Dr Harley, then we should similarly scrutinize your own marriage and your track record. So far you have nothing to show for your own plan. Dr Harley has a great marriage and thousands of saved marriages under his belt.

Quote
"""""my marriage has managed to survive 10 years since our d day. is it whole and we are still a family but it is far from perfect""""""""

Its not "surviving" too well when you were talking about separation 2 months ago. Just being together is not success. But this comment above is what concerns me the most. It seems your measure of success is simply staying together. A marriage at all costs. That is your definition of success. But that is not Marriage Builder's definition of success. A successful marriage by Dr Harley's standard is a safe, affair proofed marriage where the spouses are in love. Just living together is not a success if the spouses are unhappy and taking foolish risks with their marriage.

But like I said before, it is your marriage, not mine. You are free to do anything you want. But you are not free to come on Dr Harley's forum and prevent newcomers from getting accurate, effective information about how to save their marriages. Its one thing to make marriage wrecking decisions with your own marriage but another thing entirely to advocate that same bad advice to others on a forum provided by Dr Harley.

Quote
I KNOW WHERE YOU STAND ON NC. YOU KNOW WHERE I STAND ON NC IN OUR HOME. CAN WE JUST LIVE ON OPPOSITE SIDES OF THE FENCE?

Just as long as you stay on your side of the fence when a despairing, confused newcomer shows up on this board. We have a deal?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Eibrab #2445613 11/22/10 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Eibrab
Originally Posted by TheRoad
What would you do if tonight your WH comes home and during diner the OWH calls to say that your WH knocked up his WW again?

What would you do?

What would your position be on exceptions to NC?

The Road..

Don't think that hasn't crossed my mind. However, doesn't that very same thing cross any BS's mind?

Isn't a marriage that has recovered from an A subject to the "you do this again and my stance changes" deal?

Eibrab

A marriage is much less likely to have a recurring affair when all contact is ended. When the affair partners are still in touch, their feelings are perpetually triggered, which is naturally most likely to lead to an affair. This is why Dr Harley is ADAMANT that all contact end for life, even if one must move to another state.

I have never known - in 10 years - any marriage that recovered while the affair partners were still in contact. Most of those affairs turned into years of on again, off again affairs. The marriage never did recover any semblance of romantic love because the affair was always kept top of mind.

It is sort of like a recovering alcoholic. Who do you imagine is more likely to recover and avoid relapses? The alcoholic who hangs out in bars or the ones who take extraordinary precautions to avoid alcohol? It is just simple common sense, Eirab. It is not rocket science .


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Eibrab #2445617 11/22/10 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Eibrab
I simply cannot fathom telling my son that he cannot play a sport in this community because the MOW's son might try out for that team. I'm truly not certain how you can even say that this behavior means that I condone what has happened.

You are kidding, right? Have you not thought through the logical conclusion of such sloppy boundaries for your children? crazy Lets say your son is on the same team as the OW's son? What would that lead to? Obviously that would mean YOU and your H would end up in the same stands as the OW, which would be a breach of nc. So of course you would tell your son he cannot play on a team where the OW's child is involved unless there is an arrangement to keep the OW away, which is unrealistic.

Eirab, a child's sport game is of minor importance when compared to the health of your marriage. You don't sacrifice the health of your marriage for a child's sport. Any contact with the OW - from either you or your H - is harmful and risky to your marriage. It is in your child's best interest to have an intact family with happily married parents. Why would you take such risks?

It seems to me that since your H's affair produced an OC, that you would take more care to protect your marriage. But it seems from this that you actually take LESS. That is asonishing to me.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


pops #2445622 11/22/10 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by pops
show me where i have ever given anyone advice to make the same choices i made in my life i have NEVER advised anyone to to that. never.

This is what you posted to a newcomer on our board:

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that has changed. now and for the past 2 years or so all communication is handled by my w. i believe that she is completely open and honest with me about everything and it is done thru text messages mostly and kept to business only.
here
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while i agree that our choice is a "big harley no no" i disagree that with contact there can ever be "nc for life"

<snip>

i will say that i (as has anyone else who has dealt with this) has had more "real" life experience with our situation then the harleys

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"""""""""""""And don't have to have one to know that there needs to be NC with the OP."""""""""""""

road that's the type of myopic arrogance that does no one any good.

This led to a huge debate on a newcomers thread. Regular posters were put in a position of having to defend Marriage Builders from your dreadful, marriage wrecking advice. This caused unncessary dissension and debate on a newcomers thread whose life was in turmoil. This poster came to MB to get help from MARRIAGE BUILDERS. Not to get the personal opinion of someone who doesn't know how to save his own marriage.

So yes, you did give bad advice to a newcomer, pops. And you weren't doing that newcomer any favors.

The purpose of this forum is Marriage Builders. It is not a platform for our own agendas. Our own best thinking screwed up our marriages.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


MelodyLane #2445627 11/22/10 11:52 PM
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my dear melody, you have quoted my staements on my marriage more times then i can count. you refuse to read back just today when i explained those statements

understand and try and get this idea into your head.

THE SEPARATION I SPOKE OF 2 MONTHS BACK THAT YOU KEEP REFERING TO WERE DUE TO STRESS FROM HEALTH ISSUES AND FINANCIAL PROBLEMS. THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH OM, OC, C OR NC.

i will NOT address this issue with you again

Hypothetically, what happens if your H comes home and tells you that his ow walked up to him in the store and said hello?

do you automatically fear his renewal of the A due to C?

Do you live in that fear?

how can you say you have a happily recovered marriage if you live in that fear?

where's the trust of your happily recovered H?

Honestly I don't care about the hypothetical situation or the answer to my questions

you see your h's ow was nothing special. she was just there at the right time. it could happen with anyone. either you trust your h again or you don't.

AND I UNDERSTAND BOUNDARIES.

And if your alcoholic is at the beach and someone walks by with a beer does he run for the hills?

some contact is inevitable

it's what you do about it that matters






me-59 ww-55
married 1979 - together since 1974
6 kids together 15,19,21,23,29,30
my oldest son 37
d-day (confession day) memorial day 2001
oc born 12/20/01
now 8 grandchildren
MelodyLane #2445628 11/22/10 11:58 PM
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hey melody,

i don't recall your situation.

can you refresh my memory?

do you have an oc?


me-59 ww-55
married 1979 - together since 1974
6 kids together 15,19,21,23,29,30
my oldest son 37
d-day (confession day) memorial day 2001
oc born 12/20/01
now 8 grandchildren
pops #2445632 11/23/10 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by pops
my dear melody, you have quoted my staements on my marriage more times then i can count. you refuse to read back just today when i explained those statements

understand and try and get this idea into your head.

THE SEPARATION I SPOKE OF 2 MONTHS BACK THAT YOU KEEP REFERING TO WERE DUE TO STRESS FROM HEALTH ISSUES AND FINANCIAL PROBLEMS. THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH OM, OC, C OR NC.

i will NOT address this issue with you again

People in a recovered marriage don't separate over health and financial issues. And that is my point. As Dr Harley so aptly says, continued contact with an affair partner makes recovery impossible. I don't think you understand how your WW's continued contact wiht her affair partner has effected your marriage.

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Hypothetically, what happens if your H comes home and tells you that his ow walked up to him in the store and said hello?

do you automatically fear his renewal of the A due to C?

Of course we do. Because we understand the danger. We have done everything possible to avoid such contact. The fact you don't fear such contact is more of an indication of your lack of understanding. Anyone who is not fearful of such contact doesn't understand the nature of the affair.

Originally Posted by Dr Willard Harley
In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.
here

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Do you live in that fear?

No, because we safeguard our marriage and ensure there is not contact. We live with sane boundaries.

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how can you say you have a happily recovered marriage if you live in that fear?

Don't you need to have a happily recovered marriage before you lecture others on having a happily recovered marriage? crazy

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where's the trust of your happily recovered H?


It is not lack of trust that ruins marriages, but a lack of boundaries. Having too much trust leads folks to the same kind of foolish risks you take in your marriage. Your trust is foolhardy. Here is what Dr Harley says about "trust"

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
"One topic is loss of trust. How can a spouse ever trust an unfaithful partner again? My answer is that the spouse should never have been trusted in the first place. I shouldn't be trusted by my wife, and I shouldn't trust her. The fact is that we are all wired for infidelity, and under certain conditions, we'll all do it. The way to protect your marriage from something that has been common to man (and women) for thousands of years is to recognize the threat, and do something to prevent it from happening."
here

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you see your h's ow was nothing special. she was just there at the right time. it could happen with anyone. either you trust your h again or you don't.

Of course I don't trust him. What I do trust are boundaries. It was too much trust that led to your wife's affair and my H's affair.

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AND I UNDERSTAND BOUNDARIES.

And if your alcoholic is at the beach and someone walks by with a beer does he run for the hills?

some contact is inevitable

No, this is not true, contact is not inevitable. Many, many people never have contact with their OP again because they take steps to ensure they don't. My H has had no contact in 10 years. You, on the other hand take no steps whatsoever which present a foolish risk to your marriage.

The bottom line, pops, is that this forum is here to help folks learn Dr Harley's principles, not our own personal philosphies. You cause harm to newcomers when you substitute your own personal opinion for Dr Harley's tried, true and professional opinion. That is the height of arrogance.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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