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hold, I want to make sure that someone says what you did today was a great thing. You made your wife feel safe with you. This is beautiful

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Well, lets not get carried away. I was cleaning some papers off my desl today. Saw the most recent statement for Mrs. Hold's credit card. I knew I had given it to her so she could go to BJs last month, because we were low on paper goods. Turns out she spent $250 at BJs (about what I expected), and then spent $500 at other places that afternoon. So after paying $500 toward her balance the past 2 months, we are back where we started. I know, I know, my fault for giving her the card at all.

I noticed this just as I was about to walk out the door to join her for lunch. We rarely have lunch together, but she had errands to run downtown today so after the cuddling this morning she asked if I was free for lunch. Needless to say, lunch was somewhat subdued after I mentioned the credit card issue to her. I framed it all as "I" statements. How bad I feel when I see the balance. How much stress I feel. We tried to stay pleasant and upbeat, but there was an invisible wall between us.

On the way out from lunch, she said she doesn't want to go to NYC for New Year's this year. Normally my sister and BIL go to Florida, and we crash in their apartment. She said we can't afford to go to shows, so she would rather stay home. I suggested we go, and do low cost things like museums. She said she would rather sleep in her own bed. We'll see how she feels when we get closer to the event.

Darn. Darn. Darn. Should never have given her the card to go to BJs. Should have given her $250 in cash and told her that was all I had. I can't believe I am still making the same mistakes 10 years later.


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Originally Posted By: holdingontoit
Darn. Darn. Darn. Should never have given her the card to go to BJs. Should have given her $250 in cash and told her that was all I had. I can't believe I am still making the same mistakes 10 years later.


Ugh. Hard to believe SHE is still making the same mistakes 10 years later. What did she buy that cost $500 that you didn't notice was brought into the house?

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[quote=holdingontoit]I asked Mrs. Hold if we could have sex this morning.

Hold it was interesting for me reading your post, because I can't remember ever asking a woman for sex. It's true. LOL

I don't know if it was because I grew up in a cupboard or that a flat NO reply would seem to leave me nowhere to go.

I can see the direct question approach could be successful if played right.

I guess we all play to our strengths.

Jackblack #2445325 11/22/10 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted By: Jackblack
I guess we all play to our strengths.


In no way could you describe my approach to Mrs. Hold as a "strength". It is simply an accommodation to reality. Mrs. Hold was raped. She rejects me brutally if I try to "put moves on her" with out asking for permission. So I ask for permission. Then I usually get rejected. Sometimes not as brutally, though.

I am just as much as fault as her. At this point the accumulated pain makes it almost impossible for us to deal with the situation.

Last week at parent night one of S16's buddies was waiting in the lobby for his parents. When she saw him, Mrs. Hold literally ran up to him and grabbed him in a huge bear hug. It hurt so bad to watch that, I wanted to die. Later I told her how much it hurt to see that one of S16's buddies gets better hugs than I ever get.

I know, we have so much water under the bridge. Every hug is fraught with meaning. All of it bad. So of course she gives better hugs to someone where there isn't any baggage, and the hug has not sexual overtones, and it simply isn't such a big deal. Except it is. To me.

So I do understand WHY other people get better hugs than I do. Still, it hurts that they do. Just as it hurts to get rejected when I ask. Even if I expect to get rejected most of the time.


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Ouch Hold, that's gotta be difficult. If I was there, I'd give you a big bear hug. (((Hold)))

My kids are at the age where they don't like hugs anymore either! Are your kids like that, too, now?


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
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Originally Posted By: NewEveryDay
My kids are at the age where they don't like hugs anymore either! Are your kids like that, too, now?


Ugh, hate it when they get to that age NED, went through it with the step kiddos who LOVED hugs when STBXW and I got married but didn't after a few years. Makes me appreciate all the more my kiddos now who LOVE hugs in part because they've been hugged constantly from birth... lol. My nine, soon to be ten year old even still loves them. Lucky Dad I guess. smile

hold, just curious I guess, what did she say when you told her how that made you feel?

Travis


Age - 35
Divorce Final - 3/5/12

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tccoastguard: How did she react?
She said I was wrong. That she gives me lots of hugs. Then she gave me a quick squeeze and when I tried to pull her closer she pulled away. But that was yesterday. Today is a new day.

Interesting development this morning. Mrs. Hold was talking to me about her conversation last night with S16. He has been unhappy lately. Even when he scored 4 goals in 2 jv games and the coach moved him up to varsity, he was sad. So we took him to a counsellor. S16 explained that he puts pressure on himself to "win" at everything. We tell him "just try your best and that is good enough" but he feels he has to be perfect.

S16 mentioned me during his talk with the counsellor last night. S16 said "he went to great schools and he is a great guy and he has a great family but he feels like a total failure because he doesn't make $1 million per year". Which is all true.

After explaining all this to me, Mrs. Hold said "my new plan is to show you a bit of affection every day before you leave for work. Would you like a hug?" Then she gave me a nice hug.

Wow. 18+ years of marriage. 8 years of MC. 5 years of post-MC emptiness. At no point does she show any signs that she accepts that her lack of affection might affect me negatively. But 1 day after S16 admits that my depression is affecting him. Suddenly it is a high priority for her that I not feel like such a failure.

The Lord works in mysterious ways.


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The power of affection!! If you could only bottle it up and sell it?!?!? I think one could make a million+! Thank you for another insightful post!!

xo13 #2447044 11/29/10 08:52 AM
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Mrs. Hold drove me to work today. As I got out and said "have a nice day", she said "you too". Then she said "oh, I forgot, I said once a day every day". Then she leaned forward and gave me a peck on the cheek. Nice. Guess she was serious.


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Oh Hold.

I hate to be a downer, because it is actually a positive developtment.

But what is wrong with you (and ME) that ONE sign of affection a day feels like a big deal?

What did you (we) settle for?!

Sorry. I know that's not helpful.

Please carry on with feeling happy about this... development.

(And I"m sorry your son feels depressed, btw. Good for you guys for getting your children help when they need it).


Me 42
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Two children D9 and D4 !
Telly #2447112 11/29/10 11:41 AM
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Telly, you are always welcome on my threads. You think eeyore notices when it gets cloudy?

Mrs. Hold is not getting the FS or RC she expected. I am not getting the SF or Affection. We both could curl up into a ball and stop living (which we have both done in the past).

Or we can try to improve, and focus on any progress. She is making progress. I like it. So I post here. And I tell her. Hoping it will continue. The mere fact that I can hope is progress!


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You made me smile, my friend.

Fwiw, when my H and I made up after an argument last night, I felt good. And then I thought, "Hey! I WOULD be happy with one genuine, unsolicited expression of affection each day!" Lol!

I see the sun peeking out now... (but there's still a pretty good chance of rain in this 100 acre wood).


Me 42
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Two children D9 and D4 !
Telly #2449095 12/06/10 09:55 AM
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Saturday night both kids were at parties. Mrs. Hold and I went to dinner late after running some errands. Mrs. Hold was describing how much she enjoyed some cocktail she had when she went out with girlfriends on Thursday. I told her I needed to learn how to make that cocktail. She expresed doubt that I could make the drink properly. Then a song came on the radio. She said that S16 had expressed surprise that she liked this song. I said sonething like "he doesn't understand you, we need to get you back to your party girl roots."

She went ballistic. She said something like "you have no idea how much that hurts me to hear. You are supposed to keep me safe. You are supposed to protect me."

I was surprised she had such a strong reaction to what I intended to be a lighthearted comment. But after giving it some thought I can see her point. She doesn't want to get drunk or high, because back when she used to do that guys took advantage of her. She feels she needs to stay sober so she can remain on alert. I can understand those feelings.

Still, it hurts that she feels she needs to stay on alert from me. And she does. I am not safe for her. I do want sex. I would consider encouraging her to drink more if I thought it would result in more sex for me. I feel that is some ways I am now like the guys who took advantage of her.

It is clear that she does not view sex with me as different from sex with others. It is not something beautiful and special we share as part of our love. It is me taking something from her. It is me getting something off her and her giving it up. Ugh. Makes me feel like puking. Not that this is a surprise by any means. But the vehemence with which she said "you are supposed to keep me SAFE" shows me how averse she is to sex with me. It is so visceral for her. So sad for both of us.


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Mrs. Hold called me several times at work today. She was clearly looking for affirmation that our bond is still strong. Despite the lack of sex. And her talking to me in an obnoxious tone.

Her tone has been particularly nasty the past few days. In fact, so bad that S16 complained Saturday night that he didn't appreciate her tone. She tried to excuse it by saying she was not feeling well. He had none of it. Told her he didn't do anything to deserve her tone. She got quiet.

She knows she was no fun to be with this past weekend. She wants me to excuse it. I will not. I was polite and friendly, but not warm and loving. SOSO.


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Is there some reason that she might be feeling triggered by something outside of your family? Maybe a bit of digging is in order.

Happy2CU #2449551 12/07/10 10:18 AM
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H2CU: She was raped several times. She chose me as a husband because I am gentle and passive. She thought my disposition would preclude me from pressuring her for sex. She was wrong. SF is my #1 EN and over time I have pressed very hard for it. So you are correct, she was triggered by her past. And ours.

I am sure her past plays a role in our dynamic, but she denies it so I must respect her wishes and leave that topic off the table. She could not be more clear or consistent in her position that my role is to protect her and keep her safe from sex. I have rejected that role in the past, because I had the naive hope that eventually she wuold relent and permit us to have sex on a regular basis. I now understand my hope is a figment of my imagination. As long as I stay with her, my job is to ensure that she is never called upon to engage in sex. I may not enjoy my job. But I am determined to perform it to the best of my ability. Pretty much dooms any chance for romantic love in our marriage. But I gave that up a long time ago.

Look at my join date. I have been here a long time. With little progress to show for it. In large part my fault for not working to improve myself sufficiently. Not that improving myself would likely result in more sex. But I would feel better about myself and be more open to taking action that would rectify the situation.

That is why, although I laud the MB system and suggest that others implement it, I have given up using it in my marriage. If I am unwilling to do the work to improve myself, I am not implementing the full program. And without the full program, MB will not succeed. As I said, I have given up hope of ever being romantically in love with my spouse. Or she with me. But we parent fairly well, and I am not sure that would continue if we divorced, so I am intent on staying together while the kids are living with us. After that, who knows.


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Mrs. Hold made a big deal this morning of explaining her schedule and apologizing for being so busy the past few weeks (Weight Watchers rolled out a new program so the meetings are extra busy so they asked her to do extra shifts as receptionist). She said that the rush will be over this week, so she won't have to work on Tuesday mornings in the future. She offered to have Tuesday morning be "our time".

I should be ecstatic. This is what I hoped and prayed for all those years. That she would show some interest in making time for me.

But I do not feel happy or glad or thankful. I feel resentment and spite. That it has taken so long to make time for me. And that it takes such an effort for her to force herself to have sex with me. I am thinking about working from NYC on Tuesdays so I have to leave early and thus would not be available to spend time with her. I know, cutting off my nose to spite my face.

Hopefully I will have the guts to talk with her about how I feel. Talking to her will, undoubtedly, destroy her enthusiasm for spending Tuesday mornings with me. But it is a talk we should have.

I just feel she is so disgusted by the thought of sex with me, how can I feel good about having sex with her? Even if she grants consent, it is clear she gets nothing out of it. It is total pity and obligation. I used to want her to feel obliged. Now I just want it all to go away.


When you can see it coming, duck!
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Stop that dance. Passive aggressive BS! Tell her how you feel nicely. Don't make a work commitment to get one over on her. She is being honest with you and making time for you. Show her your appreciation.

She is doing the right thing and you punish her.

Go ahead, go to NY...maybe with her extra free time she can go shopping.

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I've been reading your thread for a long time and I know all the work you've put in and I'm familiar with your history. What if all of your effort is just now really sinking in? It must be really frustrating and sad to look at how LONG you've been doing this. I feel for you. I think you owe it to yourself to just show up on Tuesday. Dig deep and find a way to set your resentment aside for just a little while. Maybe you'll give up on Wednesday, and that's okay. But give Tuesday a try.


This stuff that's hurting right now, this pain, this fear,
it's temporary.
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