@markc5466 -

Because of no verifiable NC. You must assume the affair is still active. Because she is no longer in the home you need to Plan A your azz off. Use the carrot and stick. Part of your Plan A needs to include getting her back in the home.

Name changed to protect the innocent from unfriendly lurkers.

I have been having a very hard time avoiding LB's when interacting with WS. Her defiant attitude is gone, but the indifference and coldness is back. Could this be withdrawal? I did have a successful day yesterday, and managed no LB's during our interactions. I have decided that I will not initiate contact with her, but will Plan A my butt of when she contacts me, or when interacting re: the kids. Any thoughts/advice? Some of you veterans- how did you avoid LB's when you felt like WS was treating like a pile of crud that they were trying to scrape off their shoe?

I suspect it is more likely that she is in contact with OM and is hardening her heart toward you. I think it's a way of putting emotional distance between the two of you, with a weird mix of being mean toward you so you don't start getting up what she would consider 'false hope.'

Do NOT forget how important you are when she's trying to treat you like this! You have so much value - when I hear this, and remember how snotty my FWH was to me and the kids during his A, it makes me want to kick someone's butt!

Grrrrr....

The strange thing is that during the times that I know for sure she was in contact with OM, she was actually very nice to me (gaslighting). And speaking of "false hope", my WS has what I have named the "False Hope Speech", which I used to get at least every 3 days...."I know things are going well, but I don't want you to get false hope...." Sunday night when I went over to her place for a talk/visit, I saw the despair that I have seen before when she had established NC. So, as you can see, I am very confused- could be withdrawal, could be OM contact. I think you are right- I have to remember to control what I can control- ME.

Another non-LB day. Also, I resisted the urge to contact her all day. When she came to drop off the kids, I was able to do some good Plan A work. Plan A is very hard when you get absolutely nothing back. What advice did I read from one of the vets on another thread?- NO EXPECTATIONS! That is good advice.

It's also pretty difficult to Plan A a WW who isn't even living with you and is in all likelihood still in contact with the OM.

I'm sorry, but a repentant wayward who is serious about NC and recovering the marriage doesn't move out of the marital home and get her own apartment.

Just wanted to say best of luck, former boyfriends are brutal. My wife is trying to relive her twenties now with an exboyfriend and its killing me.

You do the best you can, I am pulling for you and me both.

Cheers

Oh, I'm well aware that NC may or may not be in place. I just feel that I need to Plan A as best I can for awhile, so that Plan B doesn't feel like punishment. I have read that Dr. H usually recommends continuing Plan A for 2-3 weeks after WS moves out, before proceeding to Plan B. I think that is where this is heading. I am just really struggling to keep up a good Plan A right now. I have no realistic delusions about this, it's just that as a BS, you want to believe them so badly, sometimes that is the only thing that gives you hope. This, of course, is usually followed by severe disappointment when you find out they have lied to you again. That is why I think NO EXPECTATIONS is the key, and right now- I have none. (That's what I keep telling myself, anyway.)

On the rollercoaster today. Great day for Plan A. Went to cheer WS on in 5k race this am, WS came over for Thanksgiving lunch w/ me + kids (cooked by D15, the next Rachel Ray). All went great, going to 5k made major LB$ deposits, and WS mentioned how nice today was, misses time with the kids, etc. Absolutely no LB's. About 2 hrs after she left, I was climbing the walls- missing her terribly. I guess a few hrs of normalcy brought back a lot of intense pain. Just glad it didn't happen while she was still here. Took a long walk and I am straight now. Isn't the emotional roller coaster ride exciting (and terrifying)?

It can help to pretend.

What would you do if she was to pass away in an accident?

You would grieve. There might be a period of time when you couldn't function normally.

Eventually, you would get through it, and your life would normalize.

You are living the first part. Yes?
The 2nd part will come too. Concentrate every day on what you need to do. What you are supposed to do.

Eventually, you would find joy again. You would go out and do things with the kids. You are not single.......... but you can still do the actions that you would have to do to recover from that kind of experience. As you know, actions have an effect on our emotional makeup. They affect our attitude.

We pray for you.

SS

Good advice SS- much appreciated. I have often thought that it would be easier if she died than dealing with this ordeal. Your prayers are much appreciated. Faith is about the only thing that keeps me going these days.

I think you and I are on the same timeline. You hang on no matter what and I will do the same. My wife I think busted me snooping - caught her trying to make contact again and shes wearing his ring for crying out loud. She changed her email address last night to talk to her girlfriends - who also cheated.

No matter what, this does not break me and he does not get my wife without a fight. If she wants to go, thats her choice. I am standing up for my kid and my marriage. If it all goes down in flames, nobody - least of all me is gonna say I didn't have the courage to saddle up when the time came.

I know its a roller coaster, we are both on it and I think I just threw up over the side from being on here for three months. It sucks, its the hardest thing I ever did, it makes anything you did before look easy.

I am not done fighting and don't you dare quit on me either.

R531, sorry you are here. I think we are on the same timeline. It is so hard to fight for your marriage when it seems that the other person wants to join the fight. Just like you, when all is said and done, I must know that I have done everything in my power to save this marriage. I have faith in God, and I have faith in the MB principles. I also still love my wife, despite the torture that she has put me through. My kids need their mom, and I need my wife. These are the things that keep me going. Keep the faith, brother. The people on this board have been invaluable to me. They will be to you too. Hang in there.

Lately, WS has been reluctant to accept my invitations to spend time together, so I tried something new yesterday. Our 2 younger kids have been out of town w/ grandparents since Wed., so neither of us has seen them. WS did come in and sit with me and other kids at church. She asked me to let her know when the younger kids would be home, so they could come and visit her. I told her "I will be cooking family dinner tonight after the kids get home. You are welcome to join us, if you'd like." She gave me her usual response- "We'll see." She asked me to let her know what time. I called her with the time, and she said she would come. She came over, and we had a great time. Even got to spend some time alone with her, while the kids were getting their baths. This is an idea I got from one of the vets here, who said "plan fun things to do with the kids and invite your spouse, then do them whether they come or not." Good advice. A nice evening together, with absolutely no LB's.

@TB -

Which intimate EN are you meeting?

-Conversation
-Affection
-Sexual Fulfillment
-Recreational Companionship

For a WS out of the home I think the first two become critical. The first one will seem to be stilted to be all about the WS and their lives. IMHO I would follow the line of not offering any opinion unless directly asked. Eventually the WS may start to inquire about you and your day. Keep it brief unless prompted for more information. She is in the same position as you in the information void.

Affection can be shown by texting her the next day after a conversation. You can text her about how she looked good when she came over for dinner. Remember you have a huge history together. Use this to your advantage.

It looks to me that the linchpin for your plan A is the kids.

Keep up the Plan A.

Her top three EN's are: conversation, affection & admiration. I think I can work all three of these. SF is off the table right now (not by my choice). You are absolutely right about the kids, they are the key. It's interesting that you mention the affectionate text. I actually send her a goodnight text every night, which she responds to. Right now, I am sort of in a modified Plan A. I have backed off on contacting her every day, and am sort of letting her come to me. She has said that she wants to have "that feeling of longing or missing you". I know that his could be fog-babble for "leave me alone", but I also know that the feeling of longing or missing the kids will be all too real. For that reason, I am going somewhat dark, but when we are in contact, I am Plan A-ing my butt off. Since we are living apart, it is very difficult to police NC, however, all of my snooping since she moved out has turned up zilch. She has consistently been where she said she would be, doing what she said she was doing. I am fairly certain that there has been no face-to-face contact, but it is impossible to know for sure about email, phone, etc. Given the current situation, this is about the best I can do. Anyone have any different ideas?

@TB -

You are not in a modified Plan A. You must realize wither she is actually in contact with OM or not does not matter to the extent of policing NC. Her moving out is an indication of contact in of itself. So you must 'stick' the he77 out of it. To really effectively Plan A she must be in the home. I would suggest that somehow you try to get her to do overnights.

This statement is a good sign:


This means that she wants to be in romantic love with you. The Three States of Marriage discusses how to go from Withdrawal to Conflict to Intimacy. To get the above you need to be in Intimacy. Right now she is in withdrawal so get ready, be prepared for conflict. This is the state in which it can be so easy to LB. So be careful!

Do not go dark on anything (this is what Plan B is for). You are in the driver seat of saving your marriage. In order to get into Intimacy you have to meet her ENs. Not meeting her ENs means no $LB deposits.

If you text her something like this in the morning, "On my way to work, just dropped the kids off at school. Funny thing happened at breakfast with the kids...". Turn this into a ritual. Same with the afternoon, "Just got home from picking up the kids. Work sucked! Deciding what to cook for dinner, spaghetti or Top Ramen? Which should I cook?" The evening can be the same, "Finally got the kids to sleep. Some quite time."

Use your knowledge of both of your histories together. Does she like scented candles. The next time she comes over to spend time with the kids, guess what? Scented candles lit.

She won't agree to overnight right now, but I am thinking of inviting her to spend the night on Christmas Eve. That is going to be a tough night for her without the kids. I am familiar with the three stages, and we have actually been in Conflict for a time already- very difficult to avoid LB's. I don't know if you have read my entire thread, but her moving out was preceded by a week-long trip to her sister's in Penn. This was right after full exposure. Prior to this, she had been very defiant and belligerent- a totally different person. Well, since she has returned, that person is gone, and she is mostly back to normal, as far as her attitude and demeanor. She has been somewhat distant when I try to show her affection, but that has improved somewhat over the Thanksgiving weekend. I actually did the candles thing Sunday night. Our home is full of scented candles (placed their by her), and I had them burning for her Sunday night. We just exchanged emails about the kids this afternoon, and she mentioned that she is missing them. This is the first time she has ever mentioned a negative aspect to her moving out. I think we might be making progress.

I'm curious about something. Does your wife work outside of the home? Who is footing the bill for her apartment?