Weddings aren't necessary to attend. There won't be any harm done by missing a wedding. you and your family can graciously decline, send a lovely gift. After the nuptials have taken place, you can always meet with the newlyweds, pour over the picture album and watch the dvd of their special day, followed by a celebration with you in their honor (ie dinner at a fancy restaurant or another venue).

Funerals of loved ones are vital and necessary, esp in situations of an untimely, unexpected death. If you've been able to say "good bye" b4 the loved one passes, then the funeral isn't as necessary to attend.

but, oh boy, to miss the funeral of a near, dear loved one or friend whose death was sudden and unexpected...it leaves you open to emotional issues because of a lack of closure. been there, done that and in my situation it left me with PTSD.

For funerals, make sure you go. Take a few moments to attend some aspect of of the grieving ritual, whether it be the viewing or the funeral. But get the closure. Focus on you and what you need to process your loved one's passing. Those few moments of paying final respects can make all the difference in the various stages of healing and grief . jmo

DDD,

It's so difficult when its family because NC goes against the grain of what family is. That's why an A with a familial OP is horrific and so difficult to get past. The NC within the family setting becomes a reminder of the A. People aren't together because two members of the clan decided to cheat.

Families would rather the real victim shut up and put up in order to maintain the semblance of a unified family. Because by doing so, it keeps the next generation from also being victimized from the families POV.

With the young people that are getting M, they had no part of the A. But now they have to face the decision of which aunt to invite. From their perspectives, the moment they chose 1 aunt over the other, it will cause pain. Even if both aunts understand, it still seems like they are rejecting the cousins by the aunt who isn't invited. And unfortunately, the uncle who isn't even blood who was also an offender, is expected to be welcomed if they chose to invite their betrayed aunt. From their perspective, he is as much a betrayer as the OW/aunt.

(Btw, not saying I condone their perspective.) When I wrote to you back in April, this situation was something I tried to convey to you. It's just painful all the way around.)

In the name of recovery, you and your FWH might have to miss family events because relatives are not going to feel comfortable with deciding who will/will not get an invite. They'd rather leave up to the couples with the A issue to decide. (not saying I agree with their choice...just that it's human nature for relatives to react this way)

, , and more

NC is for both the WS and the BS

Did you think about how your WW feels being left home when you go?

She's the one getting punished 100% of the time and you only get punished when it suits you.

You don't have to go to any weddings. (hell they say 50% marriages end in divorce anyway ). You send a gift and re expose your B/OM and the need for NC.

You have to go to a funeral?

The only funeral you have to go to is yours. You can ask the F palor if you can slip in 1/2 hour before public viewing or after.

Cemetary?

Why can't you go after every one leaves there?

Is it that you have to be seen there at these events?

Whats more important getting your igo stroked or maintaining NC?

I didn't think it was MB policy to regard NC as "punishment". This entire little rant from road seem un-MB (maybe he has some problems with his, um, "igo". Snerk.)

Very nice. And it allows me to leave my much less-complimentary thoughts unsaid. Good job.

tl

NC is for protection, protection for both the BS and the WS.

It is out of love, care and protection for the marriage that a couple commits to NC.



For me personally, I would not feel protected being around OWsister at a celebratory event like a wedding - even one where H and I kept a distance from her - because the way she celebrates has already irritated me for years and would trigger a flood of emotions about her lack of boundaries, over the top flirtation with others, her lack of respect and true contrition toward me, her thoughts that what she did is not a big deal and is all in the past, etc. A couple sisters and friends told me they could picture her being so uncomfortable in our presence yet wanting to "show us" that she'd act out even more with her laughing and dancing and carrying on rather than humbly stepping back and acting decent. But, of course, a couple of them wouldn't take her to task for this behavior because after all, "she's hurting too." I would be so royally saddened and pissed during and after the event and would be so anxious beforehand that it would be of no benefit to me to attend in her presence.

IMO, a funeral is much different.

I don't attend funerals to "be seen." I go to honor someone's life and reflect as a group about how that life touched us. There are prayers and heart touching speeches and photos and videos and stories and hugs and support.

Four days after learning about H's affair with OWsister, I attended my father's funeral. I had already told her I had no desire to ever speak to her again. But there was no way I was going to miss that funeral. I wouldn't miss my other family members' funerals either.

Road,

Hope you didn't hurt yourself doodling emoticons all over your childish rant...

In case you haven't been told the design by Dr.Harley of this forum is to HELP people solve problems in their marriage not to attempt to set yourself up as someone who plainly has all the answers which you clearly do not.

You were called to task on my very first thread by the veterans and you are still clearly not listening to MB philosophy which takes into consideration the WHOLE situation not grasping at this concept and that concept and ignoring the whole MB plan.

If you had been paying attention you would have seen the post by Delta stating that even the Harleys are split on how to deal with this particular situation of the OP being a family member.

Steve Harley stated to Delta that it should be dealt with ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS with the OP being a family member.

In my case I am blessed with a recovered M and a spouse who is fully on board with MB and who, herself, suggested that I go with her blessing to these once in a lifetime events.

By the way, Mrs.Flint DID NOT appreciate being labeled a WW in your rant...

Road, Mrs.Flint and I along with the Wonderings and most of MB would absolutely LOVE to hear YOUR story when you get a moment to share your credentials...

Jim

DDD,

To answer your question about my contact with the abusers:


My father was physically and emotionally abusive. Had things gone differently, he would have been in jail at one point for felony abuse of a child, because he beat me relentlessly, and tried to hit me with a chair. I was 11.

I was also molested/raped by a very near relative over the course of several years.



I have contact with the relative, yes, but not that he nor I initiate. We are separated but able to be in the same room, only because my family does not know what happened. I chose not to expose this, for many reasons - first and foremost as a child I was afraid to expose for fear my father would kill me...or the abuser. It was a possibility, and not one that was a "slim" possibility either, given my dad's mental condition.

The abuser and I are on the planet. I accept that he lives, but see very much that his deeds haunt him and his entire life. He began taking drugs, and drinking pretty heavily. This has taken a toll on him, and there was one comment over the many years that tells me of his guilty feelings and remorse. He now abuses himself by drinking himself into a pitiful stupor as often as he can.

How do I face him? I RELEASED HIM from my life - because I was able to understand exactly how broken and sick this man is. In seeing his brokenness

and comparing his being and countenance

to where I am in the world

I understand he is deserving of my PITY, and not my fear. He holds no power over me because I released him from myself.

I did this through deep understanding of his weakness and brokenness, and thus seeing my strength over him

and all that happened.

By releasing him, I no longer defined my life as "what happened with so-and-so". My life has FAR more meaning that what a criminal perpetrated on me - and I understood and realized that with each day that I allowed his crime to define me

HE WON.

I chose to win, instead. I beat him, only because I saw that he had no power whatsoever. He. Is. Meaningless.


Because he is meaningless, I actually feel NOTHING when he is in the same room with me (as infrequently as this occurs). He is as much as furniture there. I am that neutral. Truly.

Regarding my dad....almost the same thing....except: MY DAD APOLOGIZED, SOUGHT HELP, AND SOUGHT TO REPAIR THE RELATIONSHIP. And over the course of many years

he has succeeded.

At the time of the abuse, my father was not in a normal mental state. Because he sought treatment, he has progressed quite far. A different man stands before me today, and this man is one who understands the depths of his abuse, and regrets it.




I'm not special. I just found the road to forgiveness that really works for me.


However,

it is difficult with my sister, because she stands before the world and shouts, "I didn't do anything wrong."


That, is hard to forgive, indeed.

Then again, how much more broken can a person get?


SB

In your situation, it is too hard to have contact.


My niece has lost friends, and many relatives criticize her behavior.


I told her to do what she needed to do, which meant no contact.


DDD,

FWIW, you will come to a point where people are telling you that YOU need to do something, "for the sake of the family".


Don't do anything for the sake of a family who cannot stand up for what is right and what is wrong. The value of your own marriage and the children in it is far more important than trying to make everyone "happy".

You can't anyway. Even if you have contact with your sister, and you sacrifice the entire NC for the sake of the family, it won't ever be right anyway.

Because

Your sister will then receive tacit approval from everyone else
and anything you do that might remotely appear negative will be gossiped about, blown out of proportion, and you will be blamed for being "unforgiving".


It won't matter. In the end, it all comes out the same way - some will be on your "side", others will be on hers, and everyone will be saying

"Yeah, she slept with your husband, BUT how long are you going to be acting mad? YOU need to get over it, and let us have a family again. It is DDD's fault that things are this way."


And it won't even matter if you have contact or not.

So, just don't!!! It is easier to stay away, than to try to mend this fence. I say this because it is true in my family, in my life.


Delta, I stayed away from my family for over 15 years because of the garbage I escaped - and it took that long for my father to figure out I was angry and hurt.




Not to mention my brother's attempted suicide over the abuse.




15 years.




I found peace there, in those years. I found a way to live my life


without caring what the "family" wanted.


In the long run, I am the strongest one - and I survived better than the rest.




Consider NO Contact for life, and then, maybe, in 15 years or so, somebody in your family will own the truth.......

that what happened was WRONG
and your sister is to blame in the mess.


Trust me. Over time, people do get the perspective they need. They figure it out.


WAIT THEM OUT.


After all, you have a marriage and a life to live, and you don't need to do it with people throwing bombs into it.


Find your peace. without them.


SB

It doesn't matter what has happened in the family, be it happy or tragic, NC can always be maintained.

Anything else is just making excuses.

"By the way, Mrs.Flint DID NOT appreciate being labeled a WW in your rant..."

Why?

Do I have your story wrong?

Did you sleep with your brother?

She slept with your brother. Though you are saying I don't know nothin' about MB.

Mabye I always thought when one has had an affair they were the Wayward spouse?

You don't need to go to a wedding. And wouldn't go if you lived in NY and the wedding was in LA and didn't have the money to go. You'd send a gift.

You don't need to go to the wake and been seen grieving by anyone. You can explain your story to the funeral director asking go to the wake before or after hours.

You don't need to be there at the funeral. You can go after the funeral is over AFTER every one has left the cemetary.



Dr Harley does not say you have attend these functions.

Dr Harley does say that there must be NC forever for both spouses.

I guess you pick and chose the MB parts that suit you and ignore what you don't like.


Except you offer fogged up responses to justify your breaking NC the way a WS is fogged up when they need to see OM for closure and or the affair is over but I don't want to lose such a good friend so the OM has to stay in our lives.


It's wrong to attend these events alone while WW has to sit home alone.

Road,

Mrs.Flint is a FWW not a WW.

Steve Harley who I believe is part of MB and has counseled thousands of people stated that it should be a case by case basis when the OP is a family member. I believe I already stated that bit of information for you.

I have a recovered M and a spouse who WANTS me to not miss out on once in a lifetime events. She states that it seems like my ex-brother is controlling our lives and is some aspects she is correct.

Mrs.Flint will NEVER have contact.

The only contact I will ever have will be when absolutely necessary for legal and medical decisions and the once in a lifetime events I already have mentioned.

I will not have give up my fathers funeral, visiting him in the hospital or the reading of his will and my inheritance because jacka$$ might be there.

I will not give up my rights as a human being to EXIST just because my ex-brother may or may not be somewhere. There IS a line beyond which no contact becomes impossible for the non-affair partner when the OP is a relative who you have given the ability to force you away from everything that makes up a life.

For me, he no longer exists...

I am a man and WILL NOT be bullied by him into losing everything that is of value in my life by his threatening to be here or there.

I have the strength of will and character to avoid him like I would any other toxic substance. If I feel I am too close to the problem I know how to distance myself.

I have undergone enough pain in my life that I do not need to add more to it by losing additional family members through avoiding THEM by avoiding contact with my ex-brother. What people that have not personally gone through this situation when the OP is a family member do not understand is this:

FAMILY MEMBERS DO NOT CARE WHY YOU ARE NOT ATTENDING THEIR ONCE IN A LIFETIME EVENT, THEY FEEL YOU DO NOT CARE ENOUGH ABOUT THEM OR THEIR FAMILY TO COME!!!

I am FOUR years into this and can tell anyone new how it turns out if you avoid once in a lifetime events of family to avoid the OP. I agree the affair partner should NEVER have ANY contact however if you are not the affair partner your family WILL RESENT THE HELL OUT OF YOU FOR NOT BEING THERE!!!

I have answered your questions now why don't you answer mine and every other person on MB and give us YOUR story to open up your life to scrutiny. You have attempted to bully every other person who has come here for help and received your unqualified "advice" which has been called into question on a regular basis.

You have mocked and ridiculed people who have opened their hearts up here and undergone tremendous pain to try to receive help and set yourself up as someone qualified to give advice however you are afraid to tell us your story...

You have refused every inquiry into your history...

WHY ARE YOU SO RELUCTANT TO SHARE YOUR STORY WITH EVERYONE???

Jim

having to go and want to go are not the same

if your WW is not going you should be at her side during those times

Umm, he has a posting history, you can take a peek at his first thread starter, for starts.

CWMI,

Thank you. Where and what date is his thread located at that describes his marital history? Several of us have been looking and unable to find it. He has not wanted to provide a reference to it despite being asked several times.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=149515&Number=2033284#Post2033284

Whenever you want to know if someone has told a story, click on their name, then 'view posts', then 'threads created', and go all the way back to the first one.

Neak's post about no contact is dead-on right.

"It doesn't matter what has happened in the family, be it happy or tragic, NC can always be maintained.

Anything else is just making excuses."


Unless you have experienced this within a family, the dynamics are hard to understand, much less explain.


My sister (the one who slept with her son-in-law) also hit on my husband and on another son-in-law as well. I have no problem being no-contact with her.


The issue becomes the REST of the family. They are doggedly determined that everyone will "let it go" for the "sake of the family". I've seen it over and over.


The truth is that you can maintain no contact - because YOU are in control of YOU.

Nobody can "Make" you go to a wedding, a funeral, or anywhere else. The choice is yours.


So, what does our family do?


Most of the rest of the family WANTS the victim to attend, regardless. She tries to do what she can, but the fact is that she cannot tolerate her mom for very long.


The BS in my family's case has essentially isolated herself from these gatherings and from the mother.

She has attempted many times to try to "get over it" at the behest of the others. It does NOT work.


So, if there is a wedding, and she knows the mom will be there, she might go, and she might not. It is up to her, and her mood at the time. She makes NO excuses to anyone, and says right out loud:

"I can't go. My mom will be there and right now I just hate her."


Does anyone want to go up against that? Nope. And so far it has worked out.


Since enough time has now passed, the rest of the family is actually

ACCEPTING

the situation, and furthermore, they are better able to RESPECT the BS's feelings.


In other words..............

The BS calls the shots with regard to the "reconciliation"

and "events".

And if the BS holds their ground - and doesn't waver - ultimately the rest of the family will figure it out.


DDD, and Jim,

Just hang in there. YOU decide. You draw the lines. You force the family to accept YOUR terms, because Neak is right.

It is your choice.


No excuses - just give them legitimate backup for any decision you make. Be up front, and straight to the facts about why you will not attend. Tell them that these gatherings "might" be attended, depending on your emotional status on THAT DAY.

My niece has actually succeeded in keeping her mom away from stuff, just by keeping in hanging in the air about whether or not she will attend........the mom gives up and just doesn't go!


As for the WS and OP in the situation


NO CONTACT.



I would strongly advise that the BS have no contact with the OP for as long as humanly possible.



As for weddings? Tell the happy couple that you are "working through" the devastation of the affair, and that you would like to attend, but ask that they respect your attempt to maintain your intact marriage. Then, tell them that the gift you are giving them is His Needs/Her Needs, so that they can build a stronger relationship and hopefully avoid this same devastation in THEIR marriage.

And don't go if the OP is there. The couple will understand.


As for funerals: You can always go to the visitation instead, or to the mass the night before. Visitations are come-and-go, so if you see the OP car there, you can just wait it out.



This isn't as easy as a "regular" affair. The family can be relentless.

SB

I am so glad for Neak and Schoolbus's posts. It goes along with what I was saying.

I also have this feeling that DDD is getting dragged into the drama of the wayward OWsis by feeling the need to defend yourself. You know that you did nothing wrong. You know that you continue to do things right. NC is for YOU and it is the best way to recover your marriage. You know it, it is your choice and you have confidence in it. Things is, you don't need to convince anyone else of that fact. It is your choice and you need to be confident in that choice and exude that confidence.

I see a lot of trying to get everyone else on "your" side. Don't get into that. As always, you can only control what you do. You also can only control what you believe. Remember, MB works in all relationships.

Which is why NC is even MORE important when family is involved. The hurt is deeper. The betrayal is deeper.

The OP is not the one "controlling" the changed, limited life of the couple who is trying to R from in-family infidelity - the WS did that already with their own evil choices.

The effects of some choices just cannot be undone, nor should it be attempted.

Me too.


We don't need to convince but we do still need to explain NC in writing to my family. They can't understand what they don't know. And they need to know that NC is a non-negotiable pre-requisite to healing that has nothing to do with anyone's level of forgiveness.

At the right time, H will send something out. They will understand or not. Some will, some won't. Thank you all for your feedback about what to include and exclude in that letter; that's been helpful.

NC is not debatable with my family. We will not have that debate. That would be silly and would weaken our position. All we can do is state our position, and they will support us or not. That's it.


Yes, I think it's a natural, gut reaction to want to defend yourself when someone's calling you an abuser and a controller, especially when you've been the victim of abuse and control for 9 years. (I wan't to scream "Doesn't anyone SEEEE that? Doesn't anyone see how she's trying to twist and manipulate the whole thing?")

But I have not responded.

I'm learning. A work in progress.