My mistake. I read "home", not "home state".

So does your H want to return to the marriage?

Why did he leave at all? He did so on the day he told you about OC. If he was not going to OW, why did he leave, and why is he going to counselling if he is not moving back home to rebuild the marriage?

OK I am going to try answer all of the ?'s posted here. (Sorry if I miss a few)

ML--I have listened to the radio link and I have read through many of the articles on the website.

SC--My husband moved out the day he told me about the A/OC. He moved out because I told him to go. He has not moved back in. He says he wants to rebuild the marriage, but I am unsure if it can be rebuilt. That is why I am here sharing my story and hoping to speak with women who have traveled this road.
The OW was married at the time of the A, but was apparently going through a divorce. She is now single and dating someone else. My H's name is on the birth certificate, and OW/WH signed CS agreement before I knew anything about the OC/A. So she beat me to the punch. I have contacted an attorney just to see what my options were.
My H has gotten the child for several vists each lasting at least a week. WH travels to pick up the OC, and then returns OC when the visit is over. As for the church visit....WH called to let me know that he would be bringing the child to church. So I knew he would be there, but since learning of the A I have been attending a different church. So there was no chance of me running into WH/OC.

As for the question regarding if my husband is "allowed" to teach my children that adultery is acceptable. I/we have done the best we could to explain that this situation is wrong, and should have never happened. However, we are also explaining to them that when you make a mistake you must take responsibility for it. I strongly feel that OC is as innocent in this as my own children are. I also feel that OC deserves to have a father. I am just not sure that I want to be a part of this.

To those who have been in my shoes....I am not only struggling with the betrayal of my H, but I am also struggling with hard feelings towards 'friends' and family members who have embraced my WH and the OC. How do you deal with these feelings of betrayal toward others?

Hello, isml ~

You have definitely found MB & this Forum at the "Right" time! I am sad that you have been thrust into such sad circumstances! However, you will receive the BEST counsel/advice from people, right here, who have "been there, done that"! Trust them when they advise you based on their past experiences... Trust them when they challenge your perspectives... If anyone knows what they are talking about it is them!!! Having said that, I have made a few observations from your posts...
You said:

Quote

We live in a very small town, and this is the topic of conversation everywhere. My husband even took him to church last Sunday. He says that he will not hide him and is not ashamed of him.

I perceive that your H's "arrogance" in flaunting his disrespect toward you is beyond belief!
You said:

Quote

My WH wants to be an active part of this child's life. He has had several visits already (lasting a week at a time).

I perceive that your H has NO regard for his marriage vows: �to love, honor, and cherish each other�forsaking all others-for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, �til death do we part.�
You said:

Quote

He says he wants to rebuild the marriage, but I am unsure if it can be rebuilt.

I perceive that you are the only person who wants to go back to "square one", which is to rebuild your marriage based on "Love" as the foundation. Therefore, UNTIL your H is in 100% complete agreement with YOU about what it will take for HIM to be part of the "process" of restoring your marriage, you are in a losing battle.
You said:

Quote

As for the question regarding if my husband is "allowed" to teach my children that adultery is acceptable. I/we have done the best we could to explain that this situation is wrong, and should have never happened.

I perceive that your children are receiving "mixed" messages. They "hear" your words, "watch" your actions & are learning that "hypocrisy" is a "way of life".
You said:

Quote

However, we are also explaining to them that when you make a mistake you must take responsibility for it.

I perceive that your H thinks his "responsibility" to OC gives him permission NOT to �to love, honor, and cherish each other�forsaking all others�for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, �til death do we part.� Which, IMO, means that he is NOT willing to "suffer the consequences" of his "bad choices"! What are the "consequences"? NO CONTACT WITH OW AND OC!
You said:

Quote

I strongly feel that OC is as innocent in this as my own children are. I also feel that OC deserves to have a father.

I perceive your ability to see OC through "compassionate eyes", which is admirable!
You said:

Quote

I am just not sure that I want to be a part of this.

I perceive that you are emotionally healthy in realizing that you have a "choice" as to whether or not you "want" to be a part of your H's decision to be OC's father... Because your H left you out of the initial "decision-making process" to be named on OC's BC & CS, Visits, etc., you will be left out of his future "decision-making processes" regarding OC. So be ready to simply "Suck 'Em Up, Baby!" I do not think your "thoughts & opinions" will ever be considered in H's future decisions regarding "his" child.
You said:

Quote

I am not only struggling with the betrayal of my H, but I am also struggling with hard feelings towards 'friends' and family members who have embraced my WH and the OC.

I perceive that "friends & family members" are enabling your H in his arrogance by not calling his "bad choices" for what they are... DESPICABLE & DISRESPECTFUL ACTIONS TOWARD YOU! These people are spineless, imho!
You asked:

Quote

How do you deal with these feelings of betrayal toward others?

I perceive that you simply see them for what they are! They are people who do NOT have the "integrity" to "do" & "say" what needs to be "done" & "said" in order for your H to "change" his attitude from "Arrogance" to "Humility"! Therefore, they are people whom you cannot trust! Period!

ISML ~ Because you live in a small town, will you feel comfortable in staying there "if" you divorce your H?
God Bless ~


P.S. If anyone (MB Veterans) are uncomfortable/disagree with anything I posted (above), please email JustUss2@aol.com to exchange email addresses.. I do NOT want to derail ISML's thread by going down "rabbit trails"! TY...

But your children are not adults. They can't put two and two together and think OC is "innocent". All they know is time that their dad should be spending with their family is being taken by this other child. Yes, they may feel a bond and fondness toward the OC but wait for the resentment to come. It will. Even though your kids are older they are still children. They still deserve a mom and dad together, devoted to each other and teaching them right from wrong...not teaching that there are no consequences for bad behavior. Where is their moral compass going to come from?

I also want to know where YOU play into this? Yes, the COM and the OC are innocent but SO ARE YOU. Where is the care and concern for YOU?

Being "responsible" includes those people you made promises to...IOW, you and your COM. Your H owes nothing but CS to the OW. N O T H I N G

As to your question of how you deal with the betrayal of others? It is hard especially while the man who promised to love you and cherish you is continuing to betray you. I just this weekend went to my MIL's for the very first time since she embraced the OW and OC. It has been years since I would cross their threshold. It is the beginning of me being able to forgive those outside of my FWH that deeply hurt me with their betrayal. Luckily our friends stood by me. I only had to deal with his family's betrayal.

What is the tone you are setting with friends? Are you letting people know how hurt you are?

My common sense tells me that I am also innocent in this matter, but it has been very difficult to not blame myself. I understand that this feeling is normal-going through the thoughts of "if I would have done this or that" not to mention the overwhelming feelings of not being good enough. I feel like a complete failure. I fight myself through these thoughts daily.

I think our friends realize the hurt and devastation, but I am a private person so I try to put on a strong front in public. The betrayal I feel from others is insane to me. Friends that we have had for years are standing by him. THey tell me they are not picking sides, but invite him and OC over for dinner and shower them both with gifts.

Our preacher (I have since changed churches) knew about this situation for months, and encouraged my WH to keep this secret untill he found out if the OC was his. A realative over heard this man (in a very public place) telling my WH that if I didn't have a career outside of the home that none of this would have happened because I should have been at home taking care of my family. Although this career does not require me to be away from my family overnight, and actually provides excellent work hours that coincide with my children's school hours. He also informed my WH that he didn't do anything wrong because I was not fullfilling my biblical obligations to my family. My anger toward this man is staggering. I trusted this man with the spiritual guidence of my children, and this is the advice he is giving my WH. I strongly feel that as long as this man is part of my WH's support system then recovery is a long way off.
Other members of this church have told me how proud they are of my WH for how he is taking care of this situation.

On the bright side...I do have a couple of friends that continue to support me day or night no matter what, and I thank God everyday for them. I would have given up long ago if they weren't here for me to lean on.

As for the moral compass of my children, how do I fix this now that they are aware of the situation?

That's some crazy kind of church.

Unfortunately it will be up to you. Obviously their father is not in a place to be their guide. I sure hope they are going to church with you and not him! You will need to be completely honest with them. That married people don't have boyfriends/girlfriends. That even when the marriage is having a season of trouble you don't turn to someone else...you turn to your spouse. That even though the OC is innocent, their dad proudly displaying the result of his betrayal of his vows that he made to you and to GOD is WRONG.

Sweetie, I tend to agree with 4eva. As long as your WH is surrounded by people who support his bad decisions there is not a lot of hope for recovery of the marriage.

IF you want the M, please read up on Dr. H's plan A and plan B. Do a 3 week MAXIMUM stellar plan A and then go to a pitch black plan B. Part of that plan A (IMNSHO) is to expose that so called minister to his congregation. If his church has a hierarchy beyond the local church I would expose to them as well. Heck I am so pissed I want to take a billboard out right next to the church for you!

I would also cut out all the so called "friends" that are enabling his affair.

ISML,

Our preacher (I have since changed churches) knew about this situation for months, and encouraged my WH to keep this secret untill he found out if the OC was his

Ouch!, since when did GODs work include destroying families? I suspect this is another preacher who uses his church to pick up babes! Men of the cloth like that make going to Craigslist for anonymous sex seem ok. This guy is only a step above molesting priests.

God Bless
Gamma

These people are not "friends" of your marriage or your children's family. I would write them off. Is this your head preacher that enabled sin in his church? How very pathetic that he threw your family and your marriage under the bus.

Isignedmylife ~
haven't been around in years We are ten years into this total nightmare
We have recovered
What struck me was what your *man of the cloth* told you ~
If you can look up some of my posts from 2000/2001 you will see that the priest from my parish I called to help also backstabbed me
He also was counseling ow WITH my H~
He put birth announcement/baptism in church bulletin with ow and my H's name~ We were still married as ow was also AND my Mom was a prominent member. We were horrified.
That priest got into trouble later on for sexual harassment from ours and earlier parishes.
He died a few years ago.
Now all of these years later we maintained NC.
Somewhere here I posted Dr. Harleys E Mail about what to do.
We counseled with Dr Steve.
God sent me here. His plan was to keep us together.
We have a good life.
Take it a step at a time. Follow plan A. Then if no changes a ridged plan B.
Pray, Read here, Pray, get good counseling *Here* and a good lawyer to protect you and your children.
I will keep you in prayer.
I read here seldom, saw your posts and wanted to let you know dear stranger that I survived.
You will too You WILL ~
Love,
Debi

I recently wrote to Dr. Harley because I wondered what his position was in regards to oc's with H and Ow.
Thought I'd come her and let you all read it.

BTW I miss you guys but it's better for me to stay away for now.

H and I are doing terrific and I need to get on with things for now.

I feel sooooo bad for CD!!!!! I just end up depressed reading all the newbies stories.

I pray for us all.

love
Debi

Subj: Marriage Builders
Date: 2/18/2002 10:00:00 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: bharley@marriagebuilders.com (Willard F. Harley, Jr.)
To:

Debi,

The position I take on children born of an affair is that since
restoring a marriage requires an unfaithful spouse to never see or talk
to the lover, it's too risky for visitation. I've witnessed time and
time again where the visitation has triggered the affair all over
again. Besides, any contact with the former lover is usually a great
offense to the betrayed spouse.

My advice is to avoid contact with the child until he or she reaches
adulthood. Otherwise there is too much risk of your marriage coming to
a tragic end.

Best wishes

----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
Return-Path: <bharley@marriagebuilders.com>
Received: from rly-xe01.mx.aol.com (rly-xe01.mail.aol.com

[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: gemini1 ]



--------------------
Married 3-02-74
D-day 11-13-00
3years of recovery
God answers all prayers in His own way...in His own time.
NC with oc.

FOUND IT~!!!!!!!!!

Addressed the NC with OW tonight. WH said that he would think it over to see what kind of solution we could come up with. He swears there is no physical contact and no feelings involved. He says he doesn't want that ever again. He just doesn't know how NC w OW will work because NC w OC is NOT an option

Thanks everyone for the encouragement and your prayers. Even if I don't reply daily I am listening to your words, and trying to muck through this mess the best way I can.

As far as the enablers go, I have found two scriptures that is helping me cope with this issue. (I strongly believe that if God repeats himself we should definately listen because it is something he wants us to hear)

Matthew 18:6 NKJV Mark 9:42 NKJV

Gem!!! How nice to see you!!!

isigned,

since NC with OC is not an option for your H where are YOUR feelings about C? You cannot continue your marriage if you and your H are on different sides of the fence about C.

Let me be honest here...contact is HARD. The first year of C for me was the hardest. OC was already 4. My H had gone beyond betrayal to the point of ridiculous to keep OW "quiet" as he put it. He allowed her to dictate everything and all the time I thought we were just not progressing with recovery it was actually because he had contact behind my back. If it weren't for my COM I would have walked away right then.

ff--My position on C is complicated by the OC. I would prefer NC with OW, but H brought up good points such as getting info on the OC concerning his care due to the fact that he is so young. Not to mention pick ups and drop offs of the OC. I just don't know what the answer is to this issue. It was also brought up that IF we work through this there may even be a time when I will have C with OW concerning the OC. Seems like the complications will never end......

In your situation did you have contact with OW and OC?
IF so could you please tell me how it all worked out? Do/Did you attend functions of the OC in which the OW was present? What is the extent of your interaction with OW?

Also, what are your ideas on me meeting OC at this point. I thought for a while that I wanted to wait until I made a decision about my marriage, but now my husband wants me meet OC. Any suggestions/ideas/thoughts on this matter?

my W came in and asked how i got the lump on my forehead, did you have an accident at work?

i said "no it's from banging my head on the desk while reading your thread

isml,,, so sorry that you are seeing the true arrogance of your h and those around him.


you asked """""""""""""what are your ideas on me meeting OC at this point. I thought for a while that I wanted to wait until I made a decision about my marriage, but now my husband wants me meet OC. Any suggestions/ideas/thoughts on this matter?"""""""""""""""

I would definately wait until you decided on what YOU want to do about your marriage

It will send a couple of messages.

1 - it tells your children that it is NOT ok to act as your h has been doing

2 - it tells your h that YOU are taking control of YOUR life

your h knows that you are a good mother and is trying to use your own instincts against you. he is thinking that once you meet oc you will naturally bond and then you will also become one of his dim witted support crones.

Hi isigned,

First of all. Your H is wrong. NC CAN be achieved IF you have someone that is willing to do the drop offs and pick ups for you. Do you have a family member or friend willing to be the go between?

As for you having C with OW? It is not necessary at all. You decide what you can/cannot handle. We had C for 1.5 years before I did anything more than have a long distance "sighting" of the xOW. When OC began school this year she offered me an olive branch and I decided to accept. I still keep it at a distance but after her seeing how well I treat her son and her having a BF she decided she would rather deal with me on most matters. Her and H still have C because he still does 99% of the p/u and d/o's. I stay in the car while he goes to the door.

I know others who have C that have little to no interaction with the OW. The problem with your H having C with OW with no real boundaries is the possibility of having OC#2. He has not earned your trust and does not deserve it one bit. We have at least 2 members with 2 OC!!!

As for you meeting OC? That is entirely up to you. OC is a baby in your case. It would be very easy to fall in love with a baby and I would lay bets your H is counting on that. I did not get to meet OC until he was 4. It took me a while to warm up to him but now we are both very attached to each other. My H says OC wants to see me as much as he wants to see him now. He misses me when I am not home.

As far as communication about OC because he is young? You create a notebook that gets passed back and forth between the parents. Each writes notes about OC's health, needs etc in the notebook and then there is no need for phone calls or texts except in the case of an emergency. Some BW's decide to be the go between. I was too emotionally fragile to even consider this. We had nearly 4 years of false recoveries and lies to deal with. I was deeply traumatized by it all.

***EDIT****