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The bottom line is that if someone truly wants help, they cannot be "run off."

as one who did want the help - desperately - and yes I wriggled and squirmed and tried to weasel my way out of doing the hard stuff like any other WS

if you are serious about getting help nothing I say or what anyone says can easily drive you off.

being blunt is not attacking and it was not here.

and frankly if I had got "boo hoo dear what a terrible mistake you made here's more tissues lets all commiserate with you'..... I would be divorced and miserable and shunned by my family ... instead of married and mis... no joking... absolutely overjoyed. even if he watches far too much bleeding cricket to all hours !!! MrRollieEyes


Life may feel as if you are constantly getting kicked on a daily basis, living is about picking yourself up each day and going on and on and on regardless.

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Amen! smile


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by TomOlympus
I love how people come on her looking for advice, even admitting they did something wrong, and they get attacked. That is wonderfully helpful. Just love it.
Tom, I am curious how you came to this interpretation of the OPs posts. I didn't see remorse, admission of wrongdoing or even asking for advice of what HE himself could do to improve the situation. In his first post he fails to mention there is still contact and instead asks for help on how to get his BW to meet his ENs even tho she is upset that he is still pining for OW...

I hope I am wrong but it seems to me he was looking for advice on how to continue cake-eating... It is a GOOD thing that no one here fell for it!


Ddays 2007 and 2011
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It has been said for centuries. You will catch more flies with honey then vinegar.

Justified scaring a WS off.

Then justify that their BS will not get MB help.

Thumb screws turned slowly work better then all the way at once.

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Originally Posted by TheRoad
It has been said for centuries. You will catch more flies with honey then vinegar.

Justified scaring a WS off.

Then justify that their BS will not get MB help.

Thumb screws turned slowly work better then all the way at once.
That's all well and good if you're in the fly-catching business. This site is devoted to marriage building, not condoning the actions of unrepentent waywards. As such, by definition the posters here will typically NOT condone an unrepentent wayward. They are manipulative by nature, but that manipulation will not work here.

Flip side of the coin: they may show up here, swinging their club and demanding to know who's in charge of this sanctimonious bunch. I've watched those posters stick around, slowly start lowering their club, and listen. Those are the ones who will benefit by staying here.

The ones who take their bat and go home weren't seriously looking for help in the first place.


D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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The truth is always harder to hear when you have been acting badly.

The very thing that made WT angry is the exact thing that he needed to hear. He does not feel much for his wife, and needs to see other people's view of his "position" from a REAL standpoint, not from a politically correct one.

His post was self-centered, and he was still looking for ways that others could powder his butt.

Sorry, this is not the place for powdering. We push buttons because it opens eyes.

WT and TO come here and post, but do not know the POINT of MB.


At the center of MB is a concept called radical honesty.

I happen to practice it.


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
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Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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Originally Posted by TheRoad
Justified scaring a WS off.

Again, a sincere wayward could not be "scared off." That indicates he wasn't here for help, but for validation of his complaints about his BS.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Read the threads of some WS who STUCK AROUND, in spite of not getting told what they wanted to hear.

Cantgetitright - for one - was pummelled by ME. He hung in there, realizing that the posts had VALUE because they were honest and meant to point him in the right direction. His changes are visible in the progression of his posts. The tone and content really changed as he stuck around, took his hits, and worked hard to read and understand.

PapaBear and others have good threads to look at.

When WT is ready to change his position with his wife, he will be back. Because he knows he will not be mollycoddled, but will hear the truth - as hard as it is to take. He will appreciate being judged, because although it is hard to be judged, it also has a place in society............it works to get people to look at their bad behavior and see how others see them.

Besides, his friend Tom O. will be happy to help him return, I'm sure.


SB


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TomO, I came here in August'09, after 8 months of recovery, expressed more remorse off the bat than WeTwo, and got hammered just as hard or harder. (Sorry I can't show you, as my first few weeks of posts were lost in the 2009 server crash.) But it was important in:
--helping me more fully appreciate the pain infidelity causes;
--helping me appreciate the inadequacy of words (as opposed to sustained deeds) to the process of recovery;
--helping me realize that my residual sympathy for the other woman was percecptible, thus hurtful to my wife & thus a remaining danger to my marital recovery;
--helping me realize the little ways in which I had not internalized the degree to which my own selfish choices, not merely the bad luck of running into the wrong person at the wrong time, were responsible for my affair;
--helping me stay focused on my wife's needs.

Almost everyone who swung a 2x4 at me also weighed in with a point of advice. And as I read & re-read it, and as I reflected on things over days & weeks & months, a lot of the wisdom of it sunk in & began to resonate. Yes, it was also important that some words of empathy & encouragement were sprinkled in by certain posters whom I won't single out, but to whom I'm grateful to this day. And I do remember a couple of folks who had nothing constructive to say, and who are generally useless to waywards; I simply put them on "ignore" after a few posts (that's what the "Ignore this user" link is there for). But recovery requires enough introspection, enough of a thick skin, and enough good sense not to reject good advice together with bad.

Either WeTwo is serious or he's not, and none of us knows enough to judge. You've been here for at least 5 months, and putting in your two cents since Day 1 about how people should have more sympathy & be nicer to waywards. Point made. I'm here as a former wayward to tell you that if a guy's heart is in the right place, he's not going to be dissuaded from the truth by a few barbs on an internet forum. Life is full of rougher stuff than that, for goodness sakes.

Having the guy who promised to be faithful look you in the eye and lie to you without blinking, like I did to my wife, is pretty rough, for instance. It's actually pretty deeply appalling. Merely calling someone out on the flawed thinking that leads a guy to look his wife in the eye and lie, is not even in the same league of offense. Not even close. People who run, run because they don't like the truth of what infidelity is. That doesn't mean they won't confront that truth someday, but it means they're not ready to stop running & hiding yet. That's on them, not on me or any of the folks here who are telling it like it is. Infidelity in a marriage -- the breaking of faith with one to whom you made a sworn promise -- is an ugly, ugly thing. There is no sugar-coating it, no soft-soaping it, no overstating it.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Originally Posted by TheRoad
It has been said for centuries. You will catch more flies with honey then vinegar.

Justified scaring a WS off.

Then justify that their BS will not get MB help.

Thumb screws turned slowly work better then all the way at once.
Yeah, but honey won't clean crud off the bottom of your work boots. Vinegar will. It takes both.

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There are many ways to condem. Going straight for the jugular is the same logic as one wrench will fit all bolts. Trying to match response to meet each individual will take more effort but may result in catching a few more followers of MB.

Everyone has no problem justifying they got rid of a WS here. But ignore the point that they are condeming that WS's BS also.

So those BS's doesn't make the extra effort worth it by many's standards here.

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No one "got rid of" him, Road. He has his own computer & keyboard, and can choose to sign on whenever he wants. His BS suffers because of his muddled thinking, not because of anyone here.

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Originally Posted by TheRoad
Everyone has no problem justifying they got rid of a WS here. But ignore the point that they are condeming that WS's BS also.

Oh quit already, no one "got rid" of a WS. Good grief..


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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***EDIT***

Last edited by Fireproof; 12/03/10 10:42 AM. Reason: TOS disrespectful

Me, BW-57
FWH 54
4 kids and 4 grandbabies between us
In recovery since D-day, May 28,2007
FWH never onboard the MB boat but still clinging to the side.
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Originally Posted by TheRoad
There are many ways to condem. Going straight for the jugular is the same logic as one wrench will fit all bolts. Trying to match response to meet each individual will take more effort but may result in catching a few more followers of MB.

Everyone has no problem justifying they got rid of a WS here. But ignore the point that they are condeming that WS's BS also.

So those BS's doesn't make the extra effort worth it by many's standards here.
You assume that unrepentent waywards are unique in some special way because they have different posting names. They're not. They are garden-variety, entitled waywards. The response is the same to all of them. The only difference you will see is how posters will respond to a wayward who takes the licking and keeps coming back. Each time they come back they get more responses - and the responses remain the same. Those waywards eventually 'get it'. I've seen many of them come back and confirm that they needed to hear some unvarnished truth without the warm fuzzies in order to shake that sense of entitlement.

Look at it like this: BS's sometimes need to revisit and analyze certain parts of their spouse's affair in order to make sense of it. A patient spouse goes over it again and again (if they're doing it right) until the BS is able to process that part of the affair. After that, they move on to their next point of healing.

A wayward is similar in analyzing the damage of the A, but is coming from a self-interested place. It's all about 'me' with a wayward. My impression is that some of WS's who post here need to have it explained over and over why they weren't justified in having the A, why their spouse is so upset, why they need to do the heavy lifting. It takes them awhile to get it. But the 'it' that they need to get is the same for all of them.


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Originally Posted by saynomore
**EDIT**

I am not interested in mocking you, but I would like to comment on your post.

First of all, if you haven't been on here in months I'm not sure how you know that no one is here? I see a great deal of traffic on this site almost every time I log on. We have 41 guests on here right now and 18 registered, and it's an early morning workday (at least where I am. Of course, we've got posters from all over the world coming here frequently, as well.)

There is typically a thread that will evolve into a self-policing discussion over whether responses are helpful or not to the person posting. The end result is always the same; the poster would not remain to work through their issues, or they hung around in order to argue the concepts of this site. The advice always remains the same, in line with Marriage Building concepts. I don't think it's bad for these threads to occasionally merge into a discussion like this. It keeps everyone on track.

As far as the BW having to depend on her WH to 'bring' MB to her? When I found out about my H's affair I went online to try to find resources to help me. I didn't wait for him to bring anything to me. I took MB to HIM. It is unfortunate if a BS doesn't seek out help, but we can't make them do that, obviously. When they get here they are welcomed with open arms.

Hey, Say? Why don't you check out a few other threads? There are a lot of good things going on here. There's a BS over on 101 who is beyond thankful that she- SHE, not her wayward husband - found this site.

Take the good stuff. Leave what you wish.

Last edited by Fireproof; 12/03/10 10:43 AM. Reason: removing quote

D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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**EDIT***

Last edited by Fireproof; 12/03/10 10:41 AM. Reason: TOS - disrerespectful

Me, BW-57
FWH 54
4 kids and 4 grandbabies between us
In recovery since D-day, May 28,2007
FWH never onboard the MB boat but still clinging to the side.
One day at a time by God's grace.
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Originally Posted by saynomore
**EDIT**

**EDIT**

Last edited by Fireproof; 12/03/10 10:44 AM. Reason: removing quote and response to quote

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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