Hey everyone... first of all, let me just say I feel extremely blessed to have found this site. I've been reading nonstop. Thank you in advance for all the support.

Here's the quick version of the story and my dilemma. My wife began cheating early November, and told me at Thanksgiving. She immediately said she wanted a divorce and began the process...papers are already filed. It crushed me. Through much reading of this site, and what she's told me, I DO know why she cheated. We've always had a tough marriage, but got married young (she was 20, I was 23... we've been married 4 years now). I still love her to death, but I wasn't meeting her emotional needs. Anyway. After a week of acting like a crushed, self-pitying, weepy fool, I went into Plan A mode... I had already moved out of the house and in with a friend, though.

So I've been in Plan A for a few weeks now, and she HAS started coming back to me. We've been spending time together, and are even going to run off on an impromptu Christmas weekend vacation together, instead of trying to deal with our families alone. Of course, she says she still loves this other guy. But she's (mostly?) stopped seeing him, though he still texts and calls her incessantly. I don't fully know the amount of contact she still has with him, but he's definitely still "around" I guess.

So, she says she is confused. I believe her. But I know she still cares for me too, and there IS at least a small chance we reconcile and work things out. Here's my dilemma...

I love my wife dearly, and still want her back. That said, she hasn't shown much remorse yet, and if it DOES end up that she wants to reconcile completely, I'm afraid I'll have this gross feeling like "she won" rooted deeply in me. She got to go screw around, destroy my life, and then still gets to have me back with no consequences? This is paired with the struggle that, if I bring up any of these terrible emotions or we try to talk much about them...I'm removing points from the love bank, and I'll be driving her away!!

I have read "getting over the resentment" but part of me isn't sure I can live with her forever, feeling like I got USED so terribly without and recompense. Does that make sense? I would hope she would breakdown and be truly remorseful at some point, but I'm not sure she will. I still think she's a good person, and love her to death.

Does anyone have any input, or have you been in a similar situation? I don't want to feel like I got walked on, or used...any more than I do already. Part of me wants her to feel consequences for what she's done, even though I desperately want my wife back.

Any kids?

If not, then you don�t know how lucky you are. Count your blessings you�re not dealing with this stuff with little ones in the picture.

Kick her to the curb and be grateful you got a cheating woman out of your life before you did have kids with her and she cheated again.

Now, the advice you�re going to get to kill the affair will be like a broken record. Expose, expose, expose. If you�ve been reading, then you already know that exposure is the number one way to kill an affair.

Personally, I think you�re dead on on how you�ll feel if you take her back without condition.

You�re young. There�s tons of great women out there. There is nothing to save with this one. She�s a cheater, you have no kids.

Tons of us betrayed husbands would give anything to have discovered what we dealt with when there weren�t kids in the picture. We could have saved ourselves lots of pain.

I know a man who found out his wife cheated on him when there were no kids. He left immediately and never looked back. He�s a happy man and could care less about rebuilding something with someone who doesn�t deserve it.

He�s very happy now.

Too many good women out there to waste time on this one.

This isn�t what you want to hear, but it�s coming from a man who lived through the betrayal with kids in the picture. It sucks and she�ll likely cheat on you again if you take her back as you suggest.

Sorry that you're in this position. You are in the right place, and there are some wonderful experts that can help you far better than I can (ForeverHers, Pepperband, Mr. & Mrs. Wondering, MelodyLane, Helpthelostdads, just to name a few off the top of head).

I have been there myself and have come through whole (as a person) - as I read your post I wanted to communicate one thing to you above all.

As a BH (Betrayed Husband), you need to be truly and visibly ready to let go of EVERYTHING to have a chance at truly saving your marriage.

Your instincts are correct: you don't want to feel used or walked on any more, and you want her to feel consequences.

They are both somewhat within your control, but focusing on the first one - that is entirely up to you.

You have had a routine up to now of disengaging emotionally with her and/or appeasing her to avoid conflict. That needs to change 180 degrees, but you have deeply established habits set in place that prevent that, so it'll take some work. In addition to the "carrot" of Plan A, you need to have a "stick" as well. That means that you will not tolerate, stand for, or enable in any way her adulterous behavior. There are some excellent articles on this site on what that looks like specifically, so I won't try to rewrite it. MelodyLane seems especially adept at posting links; maybe she can help if she sees this.

Good luck; read, read, read, and listen, and THEN, try to do. Resist lecturing your wife at this point - think of her as an alien with cotton in her ears right now. She is shrouded in the addictive fog of an affair.

I'll put your thread on my watch list, and check in as often as I can.

Hang in there, the vets will be here soon!

Best Wishes,
Arpeggi

Hey I am not a vet but I exposed yesterday. It works - take the advice no kidding.

See my thread if you want proof the last three pages my life is moving fast right now.

There are no guaruntees save one. You will not get your wife back unless you are willing to fight. Decide to not live in fear.

Quoted for truth.

I am a man JUST like in his scenario. No kids, found out my wife was cheating on me - she was unrepentant and couldn't see through her fog....... so I divorced my WW at the advice of some wonderful people here (read my first two threads for the full story if you're so inclined) - at the time I thought I was done for emotionally.

2 1/2 years later, I'm dating the most wonderful woman in the world - my family LOVES her as much as I do, and that wreckage of a sad marriage is just a distant memory. My girlfriend now and I both went through a bad marriage and we have the added bonus of our experiences to help do things RIGHT this time. I can't believe how I almost would have settled for my WW if she had pretended to repent.

-----

EDIT: And what about my XWW? Well, she's saddled with an underwater mortgage, began sleeping with a deadbeat "artist" after I exposed her first affair in a nuclear fashion - and I'm talking literally 3 days after her first OM dropped her like a hot potato, before I had even moved out, she started up with this new guy (by the way, this is a "mature", "together", college-educated upper-middle class woman; throw EVERYTHING out the window when it comes to waywards. She now has a child with this man (who has two other young children from two different mothers), unmarried, his mother moved in the house straight from Mexico, and my XWW lost everything - her job, her friends, her family's support. And I had NOTHING to do with any of that - I went above and beyond to NOT bring the divorce or affair up with our mutual friends, never bad-mouthed her outside of a few private venting sessions with my parents and my subsequent counselor..... she did all this HERSELF. Believe me, I am a testifier to the "reap what you sow" aphorism now. So don't worry about HER. Keep your head up, walk strong with integrity, and karma will plow through her all on its own.

------


Best Wishes,
Arpeggi

Welcome to Marriage Builders, Stuck, sorry you have to find your way here.

Okay. Your WW, in the space of less than two months, has started an A and filed for D.

You have moved out of your house. Why?

Trust me. She is still seeing OM. You have made that quite convenient for her, by leaving the house.

I am concerned by your comment that you have always had a tough marriage. Can you tell us a little more about that? That is a comment that I would normally expect to hear from someone who has been married much longer than you.

Tell us what you have been doing as a part of your Plan A, and describe what you mean when you say she HAS started to come back to you.

Thanks everyone--I have indeed heard a lot of the "GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN" talk. This is nothing new to me...I'm aware that most people, upon hearing I'm only 27 with no kids, feel the best thing for me is to cut myself off and flee.

I do wish to hear all perspectives, including from those who absolutely think leaving should be my only option. That said, I don't want to be HAMMERED with posts telling me to leave. I fully understand that the best option in this case might be to divorce--it's sure the easiest option at this point. But I don't KNOW that it's the best option. And I didn't get married at 23 so I could get divorced 4 years later, kids or no kids... I haven't tried hard enough to save my marriage, to feel good about myself walking away. Yet.

So again, thanks in advance. I'm in a fairly clear-headed place today... I'm still on the rollercoaster of emotions, but at least today I'm thinking objectively.

That said, I still love my wife dearly and would LIKE to try and reconcile. I'm torn between depositing points in the love bank, and having difficult conversations (or doing things like cutting her off MORE financially than I already have) that withdraw them.

Marital--

When she filed for divorce, we agreed to separate. I didn't want to overhear her phone conversations with OM anyway. I moved out of the house mostly because it's large, empty, and reminds me of her. I could not afford it on my own, and would need to get roommates and etc. This way, she is responsible for the mortgage (I have thought through all the implications of this, don't worry), she is responsible for the roommates and upkeep and everything. Her family is furious at her, and she doesn't have many other places to go. I have supportive family and friends to move in with.

She's still talking to OM, and likely seeing him. Yup. It's not like I could STOP her seeing him by NOT moving out. I guarantee us staying in the same house, despite everything, would have made our relationship (and my emotional state) far worse.

Our marriage has been rocky, in that we had great difficulty communicating early on, and fought a lot. She dealt with some crazy anxiety and panic disorders for the first few years of our marriage that created some bad habits--me enabling her, mostly, and too little focus on taking care of myself. I'm trying to remedy that now. The last year or two have been much better (i.e. less fighting) than the first. But as I said, I know I was not meeting her emotional needs.

Ok, so as far as Plan A... I mostly ignored her at first, and started doing all kinds of things to take care of me. Rock Climbing, getting back in touch with family and some friends, hitting the gym a lot, being independent and not needy at all. What time we DID have to spend together (working out logistics and all) I'd be sweet, kind, and caring, but firm in saying I deserved someone who loved me completely and would find someone who did.

By "coming back to me" I mean she has been calling me more, asking me out for coffee and dinner, and then saying she told OM to leave her alone for a while. She now says she misses me. And she wants to leave for Christmas, just the 2 of us, rather than deal with our respective families alone. I'm not sure what's going through her head, but this is a stark change from the "I'm leaving you and want a divorce" talk of last month.

Forgot to mention MaritalBliss. She's AWESOME! Listen to her and other vets, answer their questions honestly, and you will be on the right track.

Message received about wanting to save your marriage. I won't add any more to the "divorce her" pile until you say so.

Remember, there are NO guarantees in this game. You can only do YOUR best to be a man of integrity, who can Plan A her while not enabling her adultery.

You're pretty far down the path of an enabler who's in Plan Doormat. That needs to (and CAN) change - but it's all in your hands now.

MaritalBliss asked you some EXCELLENT questions. Answer those and the vets will be able to help you a lot more effectively.

Best Wishes,
Arpeggi

Oh, that's just coz you think I'm a lady

Stuck, I would suggest you move back into your home. Of course you don't want to hear your WW talking to OM. But moving out has given her free reign to contact him whenever she wants! No, you can't stop her from seeing him. But you don't roll over for the affair! We call this doormat behavior. If you want to save your M, you need to create conflict in this affair, not enable it!

You say she is responsible for the mortgage. Is your name on it as well? Because if she decides to scrap the payments, your credit is in jeopardy. Also, what is the story with the roommates? She's already got roommates in there? Do you realize that you could be at a liability if one of those roommates were to be injured in your home? What, exactly, is the roommate agreement?

I suspect that the reason she's been coming back around is in order to get you to fulfill emotional needs that you fulfilled in the past. It sounds like she is cake-eating - having the best of both worlds.

Bottom line: move back into your house and stop making it so easy for your WW to conduct this swingin' single lifestyle. How can you accomplish this?

I think if I try to move back in to my home, she'll take it as a sign that I'm trying too hard to reconcile, and it will drive her away. She doesn't want to feel trapped in a marriage she hates, which I understand.

I guess my rationale is that I can't KEEP her anywhere. And the more trapped she feels, the more she'll chafe against it and want out... kind of concurrent with what plan A states. I don't know where to find the line between enabling and trapping her. I'd like to move back into my house, sure, but if she wants to go for this guy she will do so no matter what I do, or where I am. I'm not sure my being in the house accomplishes anything, aside from making her feel trapped again. One of the benefits, in fact, is that it's forced us to separate our money, and she has been slowly realizing the harsh reality of a world where she has to make it on her own, without me supporting her financially, domestically, etc. I know she appreciates me more already, now that she's been taking out the garbage, trying to budget, cleaning up cat puke, etc.

There are no roommates yet--she has to find some. Neither of us can afford the mortgage on our own. I fully understand the implications of the mortgage...and my credit is already bad. I haven't thought about the liability of renters yet, but I should do so.

StuckWaiting, since you've already made the biggest decision - trying to save your marriage - we'll focus on that. Understand, like Marital Bliss said, that you're still stuck with your house regardless if you live there or not. As far as your emotional state, has moving out helped it at all? I think not, right? I would stay out of the house only if your wife is violent and would be likely to hit you - don't need a DV arrest on your record. Otherwise, if there is no legal separation agreement giving her exclusive use of the house, I would move back in. Moving out just gave her the freedom to continue her affair unabated.

Secondly, you need to expose the affair, quickest way to kill it. Read the materials on this site, what you've been doing is not a Plan A, sounds like you jumped into Plan B almost immediately.


Can you explain this - sounds like important information and your explanation is somewhat vague, be specific please.

You need to get yourself back into that house. If she doesn't like it, SHE can move out. Why should YOU have to bear the burden of her selfish choices?

Get your things together, throw them in the car and GO HOME. Walk up to the door, throw it open and sing out "Honey! I'm home!"

I'll tell you what you'll get. An infuriated, adulterous wife whose party just got peed on. She's not going to like it one little bit. Because now she can't pretend she's single. Now she can't call or meet OM whenever the whim to do so strikes. Now she'll have to sneak calls to him and send furtive texts.

Let her be upset. You stay calm. Say "WW, this is my home. I apologize for leaving without giving thought to the fact that you and I need to work on our marriage together, not separately. What would you like for dinner tonight? I'm cooking!"

She'll throw the D in your face. She'll say "I was starting to think we could work on this, but now you've done it!" Stay calm. Tell her that you have no intention of divorcing her, that you love her and want to make your M a sizzling, fantastic one.

Has anyone mentioned exposure to you yet?

BTW, don't tell her about this site or that you're posting or reading anything here.

She doesn't like it? SHE leaves.

Ok. You wish to save things.

The first thing you need to do is to kill the affair. She hasn�t done that. She�s cake eating right now.

I say take the pride option. Let her know you won�t play second fiddle to anyone. She ends the affair and commits to the marriage.

If she wishes to come back, she has to agree to certain terms.

Otherwise, you know you can move on, find someone who will appreciate you, and who won�t cheat.

I would then expose the affair to her family, to OM�s family, and to your family.

That is your first step, regardless of what path you eventually choose to follow.

Then there�s always Plan FU, which I still recommend for you. The grass is mighty green with women who are in their late 20�s.

No matter what happens, learn from what went wrong. Strive to not repeat it. Seek women with certain qualities and don�t settle if they don�t have those qualities. Forget the physical ones. Those things are important, but they�re not.

Look for the non-physical attributes and make a few of them total deal breakers.

This includes your WW. Don�t settle for certain traits, such as poor boundaries with men and an insistence on �male friends�, and other such nonsense.

Hmm, seems like I need to clarify--I think you're right, I did not follow Plan A/Plan B exactly. What happened, I guess, was that I actually followed closer to the "Love Must Be Tough" approach by Dobson. Not intentionally. That is, in essence, jumping straight to Plan B.

Once in Plan B, I had to negotiate my way back to Plan A. So I guess I'm sort of in the middle of a hybrid Plan A/Plan B place right now.

Now--the affair IS exposed. Everyone knows. It made her VERY angry at me for a while, and she still hasn't forgiven me for telling her family, but I had to. Everyone knows, which is why she isn't 100% in the arms of her lover anymore. Her family adores me, and has been trying to talk sense into her (I agree with this as long as she makes her OWN decisions, and not because someone else feels she should). She's currently kind of depressed because our friends don't like her, and she didn't get any Christmas presents from my family...what did she expect??

Further, no texts/calls would be furtive. She instantly decided on divorce, and once that happened, all secrecy was out the window. Open calls, texts, etc, returning from nights out with no care of whether I knew or not. Furthermore, she stays at home most of the day, while I'm at work.

I've told her that I've no intention of divorcing her, and that I DO want to make our marriage a sizzling, fantastic one. She's finally starting to believe me, I think, but moving out DID help my emotional state. Yes, I don't like being separated, but the alternative was living in a house where she was unabashedly seeing him, and I was still doing all the things I normally do--which is MUCH more enabling than letting her fend for herself. In my opinion.

I AM debating returning to the house, though. There is something to be said for returning and being a sweet, loving husband who wants to work on our marriage. We had a night together earlier this weekend where we had a date, I cooked breakfast in the morning, and we had a nice night/morning together. I guess it still seems like she's having her cake and eating it too (I'm sure she's still communicating with the guy somewhat), but... I just don't know.

This is not Plan A. What you just described, we call Plan Doormat. MaritalBliss's reply to you above this sums up my feelings on what you need to do.

Stop thinking of your marriage in HER definitions. We both know her viewpoint is way skewed on what constitutes correct decision-making. So throw her viewpoint out the window for right now.

Read that again.

Got it? Now, replace it with the common sense and sanity that you will find here, and bounce it off other people you trust, if you like. THAT needs to be your worldview.

Step one? What MaritalBliss described. YOU move home. If she wants to "chafe", then SHE can leave. Why? Because SHE made the decision to break her vows and leave. But tell her she's still paying half the mortgage each month until you find renters.

She will go nuts on you. Remember, you're dealing with an alien now. Your wife is gone for the moment and will be for a while. Anything you do that interferes with her unfettered access to her addiction to her affair will result in every hurtful word in the book. And she knows ALLLLLLL the chinks in your armor.

IGNORE HER. IGNORE THE BABBLE.

She's angry and that's okay. She'll get over it. Your marriage WILL not survive you not returning to your marital home. That I can guarantee.

I anticipate you have excuses lined up on why you can't or shouldn't move back. None of them are important, and I don't say that because I'm a callous jerk. I say it because THE MOST IMPORTANT THING right now is for you to return home and stop enabling her affair. "But it'll be weird, we already talked about all the details and....." Doesn't matter. Tell her you've thought about it more, and weren't thinking clearly in your state of disbelief before. Tell her it is your marital home, and you aren't going anywhere. Tell her she's welcome to stay as long as she stops seeing the OM immediately and starts working on the marriage. If that's "too much" for her, if it makes her "chafe" (LOL!!!) then tell her she's free to go, but not to come back until she's ready to start behaving like an adult again and start working on your marriage. In short, BE A MAN.

This is your ONLY chance. She WILL NOT return to you if she doesn't respect you. And right now, she not only doesn't respect you, she has gotten you so twisted around that YOU'RE RESPECTING HER! You are - you respect her BS opinion that you shouldn't "pressure her" or she'll start "chafing" (Gosh, I can't even type that without shaking my head and laughing - it's such backwards thinking fog babble - you'll laugh too, looking back someday). That respect needs to end NOW, and you need to start showing her with your actions, not words, that she has a reason to have respect for you.

Also, I've been in your shoes with the joint house. Still am, post divorce! A mortgage, it turns out, is FAR MORE legally binding than a marriage..... Let me tell you, you think you know all the dynamics now.... trust me, you don't. Being a landlord is NOT FOR A WAYWARD. I went down that road. They're too selfish to manage renters correctly, and we had a few who trashed their rooms, broke my ex's furniture....... yada yada yada.

If you want to try and save this marriage, it will be the hardest thing you have to do, and it is not guaranteed to even work. Are you up for it?

If you are, then move home and we'll go to step 2.

If not, then you need to talk to a divorce lawyer to protect yourself as best you can.

Best Wishes,
Arpeggi

I would Plan A for a short period of time, but recommend you move to a Plan B soon. There is no chance you can save things unless there is no contact for life.

You will otherwise just allow her to continue cake eating.

I think she will respond rather quickly to a Plan B. If you step up, throw down the gauntlet that you aren�t going to be second fiddle and move to Plan B, then you can be in a position to think more clearly.

For total disclosure, put me in the 'divorce her now' column, but I won't beat the dead horse.


What about OM? Do you know who he is? Is he married? Does he have kids? Does he work with WW? You need to work this angle too. Exposure made it uncomfortable for WW - as it should - but OM is living a consequence free life right now.

Don't go on what WW tells you about him: he either lied to her to get in her pants, or she's lying to you to protect him. Maybe both. There are cheap ways to get intel on OM without going the PI route.

Turn up the heat on OM and he might go away.

You folks are all right, that I can't stay in this limbo for long. In a very short period of time, I WILL have to throw down the gauntlet. I know this. I also know, if I threw it down last week, she would've left...for good. At least, for a very long time (until her other life exploded and she came crawling back).

Now, I'm 50/50 on what would happen if I threw down. She might still leave. But I KNOW she's been talking to me much more than him, lately, so maybe a bit more time and my throwdown might be more effective. Or maybe not. Maybe I'm living a pipe dream.

Either way, this limbo won't last long.

I've strongly considered finding cheap ways to get intel on him. I know who he is. I've met him, know him, I've shaken the <EXPLETIVE>'s hand before he tried to get with my wife. I know what SHE has told me about him, which is that he has a 12 year old autistic son and a live-in girlfriend of 15 years, but they're *supposedly* estranged and he sleeps and works in the basement. I'm sure he's feeding her some lies, I just don't know how much is truth. Judging from what I DO know from seeing him personally, I wouldn't be surprised if him and the GF are really not "together."

Yes, he's an older guy, and yes, the situation sounds just ripe for a happy ending doesn't it? (Sarcasm). Since exposure 2 weeks ago, their situation has been crumbling.

I do know that Plan B is coming, but engaging it too soon is guaranteed to throw her more deeply into his arms for a long time.

Maybe.

2 years ago, what would you say your reaction to adultery would have been?

Exactly.

Don't let the fear of her walking turn you into this:



Focus on your goals, and move forward with those in mind.