You, and I'd gamble to say every poster here before implementing this program.

It's not you, it's a system of misconceptions that lead your M to this point!

Time to 180, dude.

Don't use your conversational opportunities to judge her, use them to TALK TO HER.

You are thousands of miles away for months, your contact with her should be pleasant, not about how she's screwing up.

Ask her how the day went, ask how the kids are, tell her you love her and miss her.

Think about that, Chris.

She's home while you're away, and rather than telling her you lover her and you miss her, you BAWLED HER OUT FOR BEING ON WOW TOO LONG!

Really? Is that how you would like her to talk to you? Probably not!

How would you talk to her if you were trying to make her want to marry you, if she wasn't the mother of your children?

How would you talk to her if you were trying to win her heart?

You aren't liking this interaction? Then lead the way!

Far easier than you think. You did it all when you made her fall in love with you.

Affection;

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5010_qa.html

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5010b_qa.html

Conversation;

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5056_qa.html


The greatest thing you can learn to do, is to L-I-S-T-E-N. Don't offer your opinions on her thoughts unless she asks for it, and when you do, learn how to use POJA and "I love it when/I'd love it if" statements.

Knock her socks off, Chris. And when she stands agape, and asks you how you have changed into this amazing husband... well THEN bring her MB.

Before coming to this site this is exactly what I HAVE BEEN DOING. I've been telling her every day I miss her, I love her, she's beautiful. I've asked her how her days are (which she usually just tells me same ole), I've asked her what her plans are, what she's doing for Chrismas, New Years, etc. I am always interested in her and lavishing her with positive comments.

Do I get the same in return? No.

Everything she has told me she wanted me to be, I have been. Everything she has told me she's wanted me to do, I have done. Even letting her get away with stuff that I can't get away with just to keep her happy. My whole purpose in life, even at my own destruction, has been to keep her happy. No matter the cost. I guess now I'm paying the price for that.


For the most part I am this person. Yeah I say some stupid stuff ocassionally (as noted in my post above) but generally I'm always doing whatever it takes for her. I am dying because I want her to do these same things for me! She really doesn't look at anything I do as positive unless it's expressly stated up front that it is so. If I just talk to her casually she takes it negatively. When I talk to her online if I don't put an LOL, =), or =P on the end of every sentence she takes what I say as negative. She has this perception that I'm extremely negative when it is actually quite the opposite. I wake up at 2am to talk to her and the kids. And I do it regularly. How many people can say they would do that? I'm out here having custom jewelry made for her, buying her and the kids gifts, writing her extremely romantic or heart wrenching poems, constantly posting on her facebook page how awesome she is and how much I love her. But I never get any of this in return. It's like she has walled herself off from me and just wants to be left alone.

How are family members supposed to know what Chris is talking about, and what to keep a close eye on, if he isn't specific?

What is the point of being non-specific?

What is the danger of being specific?

What if they ask him, as they very likely would, what behaviours he was talking about?

Excellent point. While I agree with the previous posts about the DJs and trying to avoid them, I don't think we should lose sight of the fact that the W?W here is apparently addicted to WoW, and perhaps some of the principles for breaking up an A can also be applied here, e.g. exposure and basically doing what it takes to put a wedge between the addict and the source of the addiction.

Dr Harley gives specific advice for resolving conflicts, and it involves tackling the issue directly. If I read your advice correctly, it is that Chris should be woo his wife and win back her love. You seem to be against his addressing the issue of gaming directly, as if doing so is in some way a LB or automatically involves DJs. You tell him to get a copy of the game and learn about it in order to see what he is up against. You advise him to woo her as he did before they were married, and tell her how beautiful she is etc. This will break her interest in gaming.

In the article Four Guidelines for Successful Negotiation Dr Harley makes recommendations for discussing an issue over which a spouse is unhappy. He clearly recommends that the issue be tackled head on, but in an environment of pleasantness, cheerfulness and safety, rather than one of angry outbursts and DJs.

In the article When should you tell your spouse "We have a problem"

First, state your complaint as clearly as possible, guaranteeing your spouse's safety by avoiding demands, disrespect or anger. Be cheerful as you discuss the problem, and try to make it brief.

Second, ask for your spouse's perspective on your problem. How does your spouse view this same situation and what might make it difficult for him or her to accommodate you?

Third, brainstorm possible solutions to the problems, looking for a plan that would solve your problem, and at the same time take your spouse's feelings into account. Avoid any solution where one of you gains at the other's expense. Don't give or expect sacrifice because that means that one of you will be losing love units so that the other can gain them. If you sacrifice for each other, in the end, you won't have the mutual love for each other that you want. But also recognize the importance of eventually finding a solution that solves the problem.

Finally, from your list of possible solutions, choose the one that has the enthusiastic agreement of both you and your spouse. That way, the solution will deposit love units into both of your Love Banks simultaneously. If you can't find one that meets that standard, keep brainstorming.

To guarantee your love for each other, you and your spouse must address each other's complaints as soon as they arise. Don't let your problems build up before you find solutions, because the longer you wait, the more love units you lose. But, if you're not careful, the way you go about presenting your problem and trying to find solutions can also cause you to lose love units.

You will not only deposit love units by solving the problems themselves, but you will also deposit love units in the very way you go about solving the problem, if you do it the right way.

Most couples lose love units whenever they have a conflict because they present their complaints with demands, disrespect and anger. And then they look for solutions that help one spouse but hurt the other. That's no way to resolve conflicts, and it's certainly no way to stay in love.

The better you become at stating your complaints with your spouse's feelings in mind, and then finding solutions with the same thoughtfulness, the more you will feel like getting to each problem immediately. But until you get to the place where you feel like presenting your problems as soon as they occur, do it anyway. Don't try to lower your expectations, and don't try to meet your own emotional needs. Instead, learn to become experts at meeting each other's emotional needs. That way you will have what you have always wanted -- a fulfilling and passionate marriage.

Depositing love units is crucial, but so is addressing the problem directly, as soon as it comes up.

Chris said this:

HHH said this:

6-10 hours spent gaming, while bring up three young kids on her own, sounds more like an addiction than a hobby. Chris's wife's determination that she is not giving up sound as if she is addicted.

The most effective way to get a spouse to face the fact of an addiction seems to be to stop supporting it, to the point of leaving the marriage if the addicted spouse will not seek treatment. Meeting ENs merely enables the addiction.

I am not certain that Chris's wife is addicted, and I admit that I am out of my depth when it comes to gaming. However, I don't think it should be accepted that this is just a form of hobby just yet.

Even if it is a hobby, Dr Harley does not support a spouse continuing any form of recreational activity that makes the other spouse unhappy. He recommends tackling the issue head-on, by brainstorming solutions in an environment of safe discussions.

Having been addicted to gaming at one point in my life, I'm pretty sure she is. The 6~10 hours a day is big red flag, along with manner with which she spoke to her H when he brought up the subject.

I think my habit broke when my first computer did. The break while waiting for the replacement gave me a taste of what I'd been missing.

I have no doubt that she is addicted, however, I believe she is addicted more to the social aspect than to the game itself. Although she has declined playing with me before stating that if it doesn't benefit her character she doesn't want to do it.

That 1 - 1 1/2 year break where our "No WoW Ever Again" agreement was in effect was the best time of our marriage. Neither of us had a game dictating our schedules, I didn't have to worry about her being too busy to do anything, and she definitely wasn't AS involved with the other men (she still had, and still does, have daily contact with one named Jon).

Being neither a physician, psychiatrist, nor a clinical psychologist, I'm not going to go as far as make an addiction call on this.

Considering the state of her marriage, and her age, I would edge closer to abuse than addiction.

Chris's last post here confirms it somewhat. I wasn't addicted to the game, I was abusing it - the social aspect became a substitute for FWW.

Addiction and abuse are vastly different animals - addiction is an actual physiological disorder, abuse is a behavioral disorder.

Many of the behaviors are the same, making it difficult to discern between the two. I"m working on something about addiction to post up, but I'm not sure how long that will take, because I'm not just regurgitating what's off the top of my head with it.

Fact of the matter is, that the closest to Plan A Chris can pull off, no matter the underlying cause here, is going to be his best bet. If it's abuse, he can draw her out. If it's addiction, then hopefully Chris can become the new addiction - transference.

Chris frankly speaking from the perspective of a FWW.... the talk and concentration on the game is just so much blowing smoke up the you know what.

The issue here is and has been your wife's inappropriate contact with other men. it really is that simple.

Her FB contact or email with this "Jon" is just not on. The 11/2 years of non gaming didn't worry her... why???? BECAUSE SHE WAS GETTING THE ATTENTION FROM "JON" by another means elsewhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chris this has been and is such a BIG RED FLAG

while I don't want to state as fact without some indication here from your posts..... I'm not at all sure.. and would not be greatly surprised to learn the contact has only been web based over all this time. Your wife has the attitude that as long as there isn't sexual intercourse then its not cheating.

WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Her weakness is attention from other men.. I mean if it was "only social" why aren't there a load more talks with women??..emails with women... FB with women ... there appears no talk in the extended period with anyone but MEN!!!

The game... like FB .. or email.. is only the venue for contact. I suspect that when you insisted it end previously she just switched to FB or email to get her fix from "Jon".

you need to treat this as any other affair.

I know where you are coming from on that - but in respects to what you will learn here, you will find out that some of that may have been off the mark. Either you missed on her most important needs, or you didn't meet them the way she wanted them to be met.

NOT YOUR FAULT. It was HER lack of HONESTY that you weren't doing things in a fashion that deposited love units most efficiently.

You also have to consider that if you were engaging in Love Busters, that your withdrawals outweighed your deposits.

When you say she walled herself in, that refers to the marital state of withdrawal. It's possible you have drawn her out from time to time (ever have those moments with her that seem to "shine?").

You are right that sacrifice has been a bad thing.

None of this justifies or excuses her seeking the attention of other men, even if she is insisting it's just "friendship," for her to do so when she is not happy is reckless, and dangerous even when she is happy.

No matter if she is embroiled in an affair or an addiction, to break it, and after you break it, and for every day after; you are going to have to learn to meet her needs, and to avoid love busters.

The absolute BEST thing you can do at this point, if you can't get her to communicate her needs better, is to do everything in your power to avoid love busters.

From your posts, your two BIGGEST LB behaviors are disrespectful judgments (which you probably do more often than you think, and have not recognized them as so; most people don't), and angry outbursts.

At the VERY MINIMUM, if you can't make large, efficient deposits, YOU HAVE TO STOP MAKING WITHDRAWALS.

I agree but how do I get her to understand this? How do I make her understand that her actions are destroying our marriage and pushing me away? How do I do it without pushing HER away (which is my current issue). To her it's just friendly chat, harmless talk, etc and as soon as I mention it (like I tried before) she says I don't trust her, I'm being controlling, etc. I want it to stop, I just don't know how to do it without making the situation worse.




Our relationship does lack honesty. I have had her tell me before that she is falling out of love with me, that our spark just isn't there. But she won't tell me this until we have a gargantuous argument that is really just her bottled up feelings, emotions, etc of things I have apparently done wrong for a while that she never confronted be about until tension is already high and a bunch of them have built up. I know in one of the Doc's articles he mentions addressing issues as swiftly as possible. I am trying to do this, but she doesn't. Not to mention getting her to accept that I have issues is a task upon itself. She does not feel that any of my complaints are justifiable but I am supposed to follow hers with 100% certainty and trust or she will think I don't trust her. This is NOT FAIR. Not in the least.

Proof she's playing the game while the kids are play unsupervised:

From 1 Jan 2011



From 2 Jan 2011

















And these logs range from [02/01/2011, 12:04] to [03/01/2011, 00:56]. She didn't even get out of bed until 11:30'sh. My daughter told me, lol.

Well, I'll take the plunge. I think common sense is all that is needed here, not school smarts:

This is an activity that is chewing up close to 50% of some of her days. 50%! With three little kids!

She continues to play, knowing the unhappiness she is causing her husband.

She continues to play while doing chores such as making dinner.

She stays up at night to continue to play.

She promised to stop or curtail her gameplay and broke that promise. She became belligerent when she was confronted about the broken promise.

I would call this an addiction. I told Chris in an earlier post that she will shriek and be beyond anger if it is. He seems to agree that she will react this way.

But does it matter how we define it?

Chris, she has no respect for you. One of the things I noticed when you express yhour concern for how much time is spent on WoW, she calls you a "little b1tch". This is how a teenager responds...this shows emotional immaturity.

Sorry, man. I gotta run to work. But thanks for your service to our country!

Thanks. I do it for my family. If I could just get my wife to understand she's not the only person in this relationship with feelings it would be 100% better from just that. But I can't express any feeling or opinion without being called controlling or selfish. It's driving me insane!

I hope u are saving these logs you can use it against her in court saying she is not a fit mother and neglects them because she is an addict of wow. You won't believe how many people destroy there lives because of that game.

Call a lawyer now and tell him what ur rights are regarding this addiction

In addition to what Saphire said, you can also use these logs when you talk to her parents about not only your concern with teh way she is speaking to other men but also about the sheer amount of itme she is spending in the game and not concentrating on the kiddos.

Chris, she does know this. She just doesn't CARE. She is behaving exactly like an addict: They care about nothing but their drug and they will do absolutely anything to protect it, from being sweet and manipulative to being emotionally and physically abusive.

She is abusing you through name-calling and abandonment, and she is abusing the kids through neglect. She's not going to change unless and until she breaks her drug habit. Have you talked to the chaplain yet?