Chris, one important thing you should note in the article in that Exodus posted is that the goal is to "express a willingness to meet those needs AFTER THE AFFAIR HAS ENDED."


It is usually not possible to meet needs when a spouse is in an affair so the first order of business is to DEMAND she end her affair<s>. Demand she end the affair and expose it wide and far. Exposure



Since she is also addicted to online games, you have another dynamic here that places this in the same category as other addictions. In the case of alcoholism, for example, Dr Harley does not recommend Plan A AT ALL because it is impossible to meet the needs of an addict. You are in a sticky situation because you are not there and Plan B would avail you nothing so you have to be careful and ride this out without engaging in sacrifice, IMO.

Additionally, Plan A does not stand for [censored] kissing, nor does it involve SACRIFICE:

Most recent conversation (Bold is me, italics are my small input on her statements to clarify them):

In a related note to my messages (I asked her how I rate at meeting her emotional needs). Is there anything you do, that you shouldn't, because I'm not meeting one of your emotional needs? Like WoW, I know this has a huge social aspect. Did you start playing again because of your friends or because I'm not the conversationalist you want me to be?
I started plying again because I'm bored
I'm here all day by myself and I enjoy WoW.
It's an outlet for me to be retarded. For me to piss people off and for me not to care.
lol.
Hear me out. Why start playing again, when you the issues it caused us before, and knowing you would have to break a promise to to me to do it. One of the things I've been reading is the policy of joint agreement.
Where if one of us has to suffer or sacrifice or the other it shouldn't be done.
Because I told you what happened before is not going to happen again.
and you can't trust me.
We should only do things we enthusiastically agree on
keep listening
You just simply don't want m to play because you're being selfish
Didn't know you weren't done
You knew I was going to disagree but you insisted anyways, and with a "my way or the highway" attitude
These types of things are harmful to our relationship
You Know I'm not trying to be controlling, but instead I'm expressing my feelings and you are not giving them any merit
It's important for us to weigh all possible options
Just like there is no remorse for you and porn, Ifeel the same way about wow
But because you are you, you are entitled to have things back, when I cannot
It's not fair
I need you to understand that there are many situations in our relationship like this
These two just being the most obvious and pressing
This isn't compromising battle
You know how [censored] that crap makes me feel
Exactly
Yet you still press on
There was no compromise on either battle
And CLAIM to car
It was your way or no way
no agreement
No it was porn or me
And it as WoW or me
That was the agreement. That was BEFORE WoW.
You remitted, why can't I?
It's not fair
You have to understand this from my point of view
Because me playing doesn't have any emotional effects like porn does on me
Not as a victim, because you aren't one
YES it does!
You just ignore the emotional effects it has on me
I'm not sitting here jacking off rubbing myself in ecstasy to someone.
The fact that you didn't ask about how you are meeting my emotional needs proves this (referring to the email I sent her I mentioned above)
That is cheating to me
I'm done with this [censored].
I'm sick of you pressing this garbage
And you talking to other guys inappropriately is cheating to me
You're comparing oranges to green beans
No stop and listen, I'm not arguing
I haven't been
I HAVE NOT BEEN
No I'm done
All I want to know is why there is a difference in judgment
the punishment should be the same for both of us and we should both give up equally
otherwise it's not fair
Because if you still want to get laid with me then porn can't be involved (it isn't and hasn't been for years)
Because it breaks me
It tears me apart and makes me SO self critical
It kills you emotionally, I understand that.
That's why I stopped
IT [censored] DOMINATES ME
Why can't you understand that wow kills me emotionally
I would rather slice my wrists than watch porn
Am I not entitle to feelings also?
Why do your feelings get priority over mine?
We should be equal
I'm not having this conversation
They aren't equal
Like I sad
I'm not sitting here cheating on you and rubbing myself making MY significant other WHO HAS BEGGED FOR YEARS AND YEARS for me to stop feel like complete garbage.
It isn't my fault you can't have porn (umm ??)
I did beg for years, and I'm still begging
It's all the other [censored] that happened before with it
fine
You still continue to peruse this game and emotional connections with other men that destroy ME emotionally.
Take the only [censored] thing that I have to do
and shove it up your [censored]
Because that's the only thing that's going to make you "FEEL BETTER"
cause you're a selfish son of a [censored]
I Hope you're [censored] happy
Wanting equality is not selfish
Wife has gone offline


Then she sent me this message:


She keeps bringing up porn even though I gave it up years ago, FOR HER, because she said she would try harder to please my SEXUAL emotional need (which she hasn't). I still abstain from porn, but she still gives me crap for it. She doesn't trust that I have quit even though I have for years.

It's not that she doesn't believe you stopped, but that she needs to trot out your porn to divert your attention from her WOW game. It is a manipulative trick.

I think we can all agree that this is not a normal reaction for someone who isn't heavily emotionally invested in something.

This is what I meant by how she'll blow when you cut her off that game. And I really think you should consider cutting her off and getting your inlaws on board with this. Can you appeal to them as grandparents? Show them the letter she sent you and tell them that you believe their grandchildren are being neglected. Enlist their support to be on-site for those kids (AND their daughter and son-in-law!)

I plan to enlist the help of her parents and mine. I'm also printing all this stuff to take to the chaplain with me.

Oh, and I did cut her off:


The fact you are still dwelling on porn and actually think I'm still watching tells me YOU are the one still having trust issues. Time to move on babe. You can't hold something against that I don't do.
I didn't say you were still watching but that's your argument. Why else would we be arguing over something so stupid.
Are you pulling your [censored] again about not letting me connect?
Yep, you told me I could have it. So did you lie to me on that too?
I was being a [censored]. I don't know why I need to beg to play WoW. It's stupid that you'd rather me be bored to [censored]. [censored] I'm not doing anything but taking care of our family here. Not [censored] around like all the other military wives, etc... Give me a break.
You're not begging to play. You're begging to break a promise, to hurt my feelings, and ignore my emotional needs WITHOUT REPROCUSSION. When YOU stop being so selfish and realize I have feelings and emotions too, you MIGHT be able to understand why it bothers me so much.
You're being a controlling [censored] ignoring me too. SO?! This you can do alone. I told you I'm tired of this garbage. I WILL NOT stand for it. You fail to realize that I have your bank account. What's stopping me from skipping town to get away from YOU? Nothing. Not a [censored] thing. Straighten the [censored] up. I never said you didn't matter. Never. I just don't think that comparing this to THAT has any equality when THAT made your wife want to leave you, kill herself, or just [censored] run away from it all. To wear baggy [censored] clothes, not even eat, much less get out of bed in the morning etc. If you want your porn sure, have it. I'll go back to that person.
You fail to realize everything I have had to overcome despite you just wanting to [censored] jerk off. I told you I'm not bullshitting you. I WILL [censored] LEAVE YOU.
You need to get the [censored] on skype I'm tired of [censored] typing to your stupid [censored].
I can't I'm at work remember.
You seem to think the torture I put you through is worse than the torture you put ME through. I'm sorry I'm not ready to let go just like you aren't.
Expect papers. I told you a million times stop this [censored] controlling crap. I'm done. You're absolutely ridiculous. Have your porn but you will not have me.
I do not want the porn, and it seems to be your only defense. You have no valid arguments to justify why I cannot get equality in this relationship.

That was a better approach than your last posted conversation.

Chris, her parent's reaction is why I stated that those chat logs from WoW just aren't going to cut the mustard.

You say she calls/texts the OM, right? If you are exposing this, then what you need isn't the chat logs. Watch the FB account, and call your Cell carrier, and see what you can do about getting call/text logs.

I am with AT&T and I can review the current month online at any time - I still do.

Massive amounts of texts and/or long phone calls are going to be better evidence to her parents. Make it concrete that; you do not agree with this "friendship," that you have communicated it to her, and that she continues this friendship.

Does she use ventrillo or skype? If so that could provide a more difficult avenue to track.

Her respones:


What all can I see with the cell/txt logs? Majority of her talking to these guys happens through WoW, Facebook, or Instant Messengers. She talks to them through ventrilo daily, I doubt skype.

I will take whatever evidence I can get. It's apparent she is going to leave me for cutting her off from WoW so the stronger my defense the better.

Chris introduced the past porn issue.

She certainly jumped on it when he brought it up, and it may have been simply to divert and manipulate. It could also be that she misunderstood and felt he was wanting to be allowed to go back to viewing porn since she has gone back on her promise about WOW.

On the website, or ordering the logs, the most you can get is numbers that are called and/or texted - the calls include call length. That was enough evidence for me to bust FWW, though she was racked with guilt. She had all the same foggy excuses, but not all the resentment/anger that you are facing.

Ask your Chaplain about family hardship leave if you can. You could also weigh out the possibility of family hardship discharge. My nephew recieved FHD for his FIL's death. Since you are dealing with young children as well as your spouse, it may be an option. Worth investigating.

As for text contents - look into a SIM card reader - you will have to be home to get to her SIM card - which is currently impossible, but if she is exhibiting paranoid behavior - constantly deleting her texts - then all of those deleted texts will still be on the card unless they have been overwritten.

Have to apologize, Chris. I have a little bit of an ADD tendency, and when I get going on a post, sometimes I forget to GET TO THE POINT. I've had a few in your thread where I just never got to the point of what I was trying to explain.

I doubt that. She has stated that from her perspective his porn use was equal to an affair. She obviously hasn't recovered and is abusing him by constantly throwing it in his face.

It still doesn't excuse her behavior, and in fact in several ways, what she is doing is worse; she is behaving the way she is directly to inflict punishment.

Yeah I did bring up the porn, but not to say I wanted it back. It was just a comparison. I quit it for her and I will stick by it. I just wish she would do the same.



I can already see who she called or texted and length of messages. But I don't know who the numbers belong to. To me it's just a bunch of numbers. I can't discern their value. I may look into the family hardship leave, but I don't want a discharge. I would never be able to stay afloat if I quit the military. I don't have any other job options.

I hadn't seen the second exchange when I posted.

We all understand what you were saying, Chris. You were trying to make a correlation for her. I just thought it was possible that she could have misunderstood and felt threatened.

I doubt that. She was using it to justify her bad behavior. That is a typical trait of wayward manipulator. She is obviously very manipulative.

Chris can you do anything about the finances? So many things can be paid online. Your father can pay the bills online for you so that nothing is cut off. Move funds to an account she can't get to and only let X amount of dollars for certain necessities - food, etc.

I think you're doing well with keeping calm. Whatever you do, stay calm.

Most of my stuff is automatically paid online except things like rent, which I pay by check. I already have a private account setup and am ready to move all non-necessity funds to it as soon as I feel the need.

Agree with this. Is there any way you can cancel the internet so she can't play WOW anymore?

You can do a reverse-lookup for landlines at whitepages.com - cell phones are harder.

AT&T has a "phonebook" option - not really useful for you at this time.

Remove the funds before she does

All the calls are mobile so no dice unless I want to pay for a year of reverse lookup (which I may do if divorce is imminent).

I've already set my funds to go to my private account.

Chaplain told me basically the same things you guys have. That I need to break her abuse/addiction, reinforce that I love her and my best interest is for her and the kids, and that her actions are damaging our relationship (without giving away the fact I'm monitoring...)

See below:

Then there isn't any equality. I do not agree with WoW or your "relationships" with those guys.

How is anything equal when one punishes the other? When one person controls the others free time?

You are looking at it wrong, the same way you always do, to make yourself look like the victim. I am the victim here. You broke a promise (that was intended to save our marriage) FOR PERSONAL GAIN, no matter what the consequences were. Originally they were divorce and you were okay with that. You were willing to divorce me just to play a game. Now that I am putting my foot down and saying I'm not going to tolerate it you have nothing else to do except try to find ways to victimize yourself and make me look bad. It isn't going to work. I am enforcing this. When you can learn to respect my feelings and emotions we can work through this, but until then we can't.

You will never understand my side of this argument because you weren't the one getting cheated on (and yes you were cheating).

If you think I was cheating then how is that any different than you stroking your [censored] to other women? It's not. At all. I wasn't getting off AT ALL. I wasn't doing anything because I meant it. I was just messing around w/ ppl.

Look, I love you to death. I love the kids to death. I am doing what is best for you and the kids. I want to work this out. But I need you to realize you have a problem. You are addicted to this game and the emotional friendships that come with it. You are too close to these other men as proven by the fact that even after telling me you would cut all ties with them (part of our no-wow agreement) but never did. You remained attached to them.

You have no concern for my feelings as proven by the fact you never asked me to return the emotional needs ratings, even after asking. You have no interest in what I think or how I feel. If you did you would try to understand why this bothers me so much. I am very adamant and hurt (STILL) from the last time this crap happened and it's slowly happening again. I am not going to be hurt by the same thing twice. Every time you log in or talk to toliak/atook/raax/vegil all I think about are those [censored] conversations you had with them before. I don't care how real they were to you, they were VERY real to me. I am permanently emotionally damaged because of them and I need you to understand this. We will never be able to move past this issue if you won't give me feelings any merit.

The divorce [censored] wasn't about the game at all. You STILL fail to see the point. It's about the controlling [censored] that you FORCE down my throat like I'm a malnourished child that doesn't want to eat. THAT is the issue I have. For you to say I don't care about your feelings is invalid. I never said that. I'm not working through [censored]. I didn't do anything wrong here. I told you that I wouldn't be talking to ppl like that again. I haven't. You can't trust me AND THAT IS THE ISSUE. So just trust me. Like I have done w/ the porn. I didn't bring that up just to be a [censored] and focus on old [censored]. I brought it up BECAUSE OF THE FEELINGS ASPECT OF THINGS. It was with relevance on emotional discomfort.

I have given your feelings merit. I told you that it won't happen again. Yet you get pissed off because YOU ASSUME some [censored] is going on when it isn't. You not trusting me is causing US problems. I play because I enjoy playing. I enjoy playing with ppl I have experience PLAYING with. I haven't been explicit with anything. I've joked in guild chat but I wasn't talking to anyone in particular. Ffs I'm not allowed to be myself. I'm not allowed to joke. I'm not allowed to play a video game to ease everyday stress. I'm not allowed to do anything unless you approve it. Just because you think about [censored] doesn't mean it is happening.

Then don't work through it, that's your call. I still love you and want to work through it. If you are walling yourself off to the truth then that's your problem not mine.

This is not about being controlling, like I said you're victimizing yourself. This whole issue started because you broke our promise. Our promise that saved our marriage. It has nothing to do with trust or control. It's about enforcing something that nearly ruined us.

If anyone in this situation should feel [censored] over it's me.

Plus I don't know if you've noticed but our relationship has been nothing but downhill since I introduced you to online games. Coincidence?

I consider a couple of ppl friends. I don't tell you not to befriend girls anymore because I feel threatened by them do I?

our relationship went down hill with the porn comment.
not games

Fine then hold that against me, something that is 8 years old and doesn't even apply today. If that's what I have to deal with then you were obviously never worried about being happy with me. If you can't let it go then we can never move forward. If you can't let wow go, if you can't let these "friends" go, then we'll never be able to move forward.

I don't befriend girls because of the stupid hypocritical [censored] chewing I took from you during that time. I no longer do it. I avoid the situation at all costs to save myself the headache--because keeping you happy is more important to me than a female friend.

I can't change how bad something makes me feel about myself. It does apply today because it makes me SUPER self conscious and i beat myself up over [censored]. I don't know why you can't understand that.

I DO understand. I DO. I want you to DO THE SAME FOR ME! Understand my situation and how bad this makes me feel. I AM BEGGING YOU.

Under no circumstance do I want porn back. Please get that out of your head. I promise you I have no intentions of ever looking at it again!